TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[Badger]

They occasionally show TV specials too.  I remember them showing "Liza with a Z", and a special Mitzi Gaynor did back in the 1970's.

 

Tuesday Weld starred in a TV remake of "Madame X" which is another one that has been remade several times.

[Milburn Stone]

Why [Duel] became a cult classic I cannot say, yet I'll watch it any time it's on.

 

I remember seeing it around when it first aired, and how knocked out I was by it. It was something of a sensation, the way Spielberg created--and sustained over the length of a TV movie!--so much suspense using just two characters, namely Dennis Weaver and a truck. You couldn't watch it and not think,"This guy is a genius."

 

Incidentally, for one definition of "distance from here to the sun," go to the imdb and take a look at the list of films and shows Spielberg has directed, executive-produced, been "thanked" on, or otherwise had or continues to have something to do with.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Milburn Stone

[Rinaldo]

Duel -- a TV movie by then-unknown director Steven Spielberg. 

 

Why it became a cult classic I cannot say, yet I'll watch it any time it's on.

I can think of three reasons: 1. It's very effectively shot (edited and framed) with minimal dialogue, showing Spielberg's near-instinctive mastery of the medium before his name was known (therefore now fun to look back at, like his early TV episodes). 2. Historically, it (along with Brian's Song in the same year, 1971) marked a turning point in the status of the TV movie, suggesting (no doubt via careful promotion to some extent) that such things could be of the quality of feature films (rather than, say, an extra-long episode of regular TV material). 3. It was later released to theaters abroad. (This was tried with Brian's Song in the US, but unsuccessfully in that case; people had already seen it all they needed to.) I remember when I spent the summer of 1973 in Europe, mostly in London, most of the movies were what I'd seen advertised at home, but there was this puzzling thing called Duel everywhere, that I'd never heard of. (I wasn't a TV watcher in those years.) 

 

It definitely has its place in history.

[aradia22]

The light isn't great here and I wanted to watch something short and not too serious so I put on Attack of the 50 Foot Woman. I can see how it'd be a fun movie to see on a date at a drive in. The special effects were hilarious. A ball on a string, the projection of the giant, overuse of the smoke machine... The script wasn't too terrible. It was pretty basic instead of being laughably bad. It was odd that the doctors were still acting like she could be cured and nattering on about her pituitary. The husband was also weirdly chill about his

murder plan

being thwarted by having a GIANT wife. Also, if her hand was that big, how did she fit in her bedroom? It would have made more sense if she'd shot up to 6-8 feet and only gotten really big at the end of the movie. Also, how did the "radioactivity" make her blonde? And how is she both as tall as the electrical cable towers and as tall as a two story bar and grill? Did becoming a giant impede her ability to say anything other than Harry? 

 

For anything other than a night at the drive in or maybe a snarkfest I think I'd skip this one. The Wasp Woman and Little Shop of Horrors (the musical) have more to say. 

[Crisopera]

I was watching that run of Eleanor Powell movies last week, and was reminded that sometimes it's salutary to remember the casual racism that is an integral part of Golden Age Hollywood movies.  In Honolulu (1939), which has a terrible script (George Burns and Gracie Allen are both in it, but they don't even meet until the last scene!), Powell does a couple of amazing numbers, including a hula/tap number and a tribute to Bill Robinson.  Here is the problem - she does the Robinson tribute in full-on, minstrel-show blackface.  Not even the "Dark Egyptian" pancake employed by Fred Astaire in his tribute to Robinson ("Bojangles of Harlem"), which is bad enough.  A burnt-cork, white-lips-and-eyes blackface.  And it's too bad, because she dances the hell out of it.

 

I saw some of Lady Be Good (1941), and it was interesting in another way (another terrible script, though).  It shows off all the degrees of MGM stardom in one movie - Powell is top billed but declining, and she's definitely supporting the mid-level stars Ann Sothern and Robert Young, while the up-and-coming Red Skelton is down the cast list.  Some more terrific Powell numbers (including one with a dog), and the insidious racism comes up with the phenomenal AfAm flash act trio, the Berry Brothers, whose numbers were obviously plunked into the movie so they could be easily cut for the southern circuit.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Crisopera

[ratgirlagogo]

 

 anything other than a night at the drive in or maybe a snarkfest I think I'd skip this one. The Wasp Woman and Little Shop of Horrors (the musical) have more to say.

I agree with you - while I enjoy it I actually do think 50 Foot Woman is a little overrated.  Although Allison Hayes is a KNOCKOUT which I think contributes to many people's fondness for the film.  I like her more in The Undead and The Hypnotic Eye.

 

Very much agree with Rinaldo's analysis of the cult status of Duel.  It's not a movie I ever really feel like watching again (they've been playing it a lot on El Rey and I just haven't felt the need to bother) but it is absolutely a classic for all the reasons given.

Edited November 23, 2014 by ratgirlagogo

[aradia22]

 

Although Allison Hayes is a KNOCKOUT which I think contributes to many people's fondness for the film.

She was gorgeous at the end of the movie. They could have done a lot more with the premise. It wouldn't even have taken more special effects. Just punch up the script and give her more motivation at the end. I wonder if they didn't give her a speech because there was some issue with the way they projected her image onto the footage. Otherwise I can't explain why they severely limited her dialogue at the end and I think never showed her actually talking once she was giant (the voice was always heard when the camera wasn't focused on her). It would be fun to see someone do a take off the premise today. You could manage it even with a low budget with the technology today.

[Rinaldo]

I've never seen Lady Be Good, and it's a real gap in my cinematic knowledge, as I'm supposed to know about musicals. I know the 1925 Gershwin stage musical of the same title, but all it has in common with this movie is the one song. But from all reports it's one of those odd B&W hybrid musical-and-something-else items, with some nonmusical principals, and songs from various sources. Plus the oddity, noted above, of the ostensible star being mostly secondary.

[Milburn Stone]

It would be fun to see someone do a take off the premise today. You could manage it even with a low budget with the technology today.

 

There was a remake of Attack of the Fifty Foot Woman, starring Darryl Hannah in 1993, directed by Christopher Guest!

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106317/

[Crisopera]

Oh, Rinaldo, you definitely have to see Lady Be Good.  Not just because Powell dances with a dog, but because Sothern and Young have one of the single most ludicrous "song-writing" scenes ever committed to film.  Young plays Sothern the melody (which will become "Lady, Be Good")  and she plucks random phrases out of her ass, which magically coalesce into the song we know and love.  They not only manage to write two Gershwin standards, but also "The Last Time I Saw Paris" as well as others.   And as with all songwriters, their hit songs make them world-renowned superstars. Pretty much a documentary. 

Edited November 24, 2014 by Crisopera

[Rinaldo]

Oh, I know, Crisopera. The start of that songwriting scene was featured in one of the That's Entertainment!s, just enough to whet my appetite (after I recovered from saying "whaaa??" I mean, wouldn't you expect a movie with that title to be some version of the 1925 musical about a brother and sister [originally the Astaires] down on their luck in Rhode Island?).

 

That movie also stands in history as a rare example of an Oscar winner being indignant about winning. Up till then, there was nothing in the rules to prevent old songs from being nominated for Best Song if they were used in a movie, but there was a general "gentleman's agreement" that only newly written songs would be submitted (e.g., from The Gay Divorcée, not "Night and Day," but "The Continental"). However, in the case of Lady Be Good, Kern and Hammerstein's "The Last Time I Saw Paris," which they had written the year before as an independent item (in reaction to the occupation of France, of course) and which had already been published and recorded, was sung in this film, was nominated, and won the Oscar. Jerome Kern thought that was outrageous, so he petitioned the Academy to tighten up the rules.

 

(If all this was said in the lead-up on TCM, I'll feel pretty silly. But it's a unique instance, one that I remember in its entirety because songwriters seldom behave like that.)

Edited November 24, 2014 by Rinaldo

[Crisopera]

That's funny about "The Last Time I Saw Paris."  I had always thought it had been introduced by Dinah Shore in 'Til the Clouds Roll By (another godawful musical with some nice numbers - although I've tried and tried to scrub the image of the skinny Frank Sinatra singing "Ol' Man River" while standing on a pedestal in white tails and it JUST DOESN'T WORK).  I've come to the conclusion that the glory of the MGM musical rests pretty much solely on the Freed Unit.  Most of MGM's musicals have some terrific individual numbers - you couldn't really completely miss with the talent they gathered - but the interstitial plot stuff is generally awful, especially the "comic" relief (I'm not a big fan of Red Skelton) - although Gracie Allen was adorable as usual in Honolulu.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Crisopera

[aradia22]

I decided to finally watch Ex-Lady (1933) today. I still have 12 minutes left but I'll get to it tomorrow. It was an odd set up. The dialogue is fine but I hesitate to call it a good script. I feel like the first twenty minutes was a tidy, efficient movie in and of itself and having them get married kind of deflated the tension for the rest of the movie. I wasn't bored exactly but I didn't find it entertaining or engaging either. I was just listening for the wit of the dialogue. It was interesting to see Bette Davis this early in her career. More than with Three on a Match I saw all the familiar expressions. She's not like a Hepburn or a Crawford who has particular tics but I know how she plays certain emotions. It was all there but it was softer in a way. Not actually soft, but I guess, more natural. The leading man had his moments but I think a stronger actor might have made the movie more entertaining. Not by much though. I really do think all the tension left the movie after the marriage. It didn't feel like there were stakes. They were just trying things out. It was the most uninteresting version of examining a couple's relationship issues. It also felt oddly confined. I mean the home/hotel sets were spacious and lovely but it felt a bit like a play. In a play it doesn't bother me when there aren't a bunch of characters and you're largely confined to the same sets but this felt small. 

 

The costumes are gorgeous. I usually don't notice underscoring unless it's manipulative but I liked the romantic music playing under everything. It gave me the feel of watching a classic movie the way not every old movie does if that makes any sense.

 

Edited to add that the movie does get to a conclusion "it hurts both ways but this way it hurts less" but it's not entirely satisfying as I think the issues go unresolved. That said, it's a rare movie that acknowledges things are complicated without tying everything up in a bow or leaving devastation and chaos. It's a more mature ending to say we know the issue is complex but we're pressing on.

Edited November 25, 2014 by aradia22

[aradia22]

I decided to start watching Skylark (1941). Ben's pitch about the costumes and Claudette Colbert being shot from her left really sold me. He said the costumes were by Edith Head but the credits said Irene. Anyway, they were gorgeous either way. I've only seen Ray Milland in Dial M for Murder and Claudette in It Happened One Night so this was an interesting experience. He was very natural as a romantic leading man. Nice but not bland. Charming but not trying too hard to please. She seemed more mature in way that I haven't seen a lot of actresses play. It was nice to be watching a genuine romantic comedy again but there was something a little awkward about it. Perhaps it was that Colbert was doing a lot of the heavy lifting. I guess I'd explain it like if you were watching a sitcom like I Love Lucy but the character wasn't able to hear the laughter of the studio audience. Also, I love that old movies recognize the importance of having adorable little dogs. I feel like another part of the issue was Ray Milland's Tony was a little erratic. Sometimes he was super sweet and loving and sometimes he was more harsh like DMFM Ray Milland. It was not Wife vs. Secretary where Clark Gable was a little oblivious and distracted by work. This was like watching two different characters. And he oddly became more unlikable when he was being charming in the second half because there would be no problem if he'd been this guy to begin with. He only wanted to try hard when he lost her. Brian Aherne had the easier job of it as he just had to be charming and got to work up to having more emotions and investment in the situation. I love him in this movie. I actually liked almost all the smaller characters from the best friends down to the waitress. The casting seemed good, there was just something about Milland and Colbert that felt off, a combination of the writing and the performances.

 

The old-timey subway was fun. Though would the guys all really side with the wife while the women were against her?

 

Also, I couldn't shake the feeling during the movie that there were shades of other actors in their performances. I couldn't figure her out. The low voice was pointing me to someone but I couldn't pinpoint it. Maybe some Norma Shearer or Garbo or Bette Davis? I don't know. It didn't feel like she was wholly comfortable in the part. There was a bit of Jimmy Stewart and Robert Taylor and Cary Grant in there but I couldn't figure out the others.

 

It's a beautiful movie to look at with great dialogue and gorgeous costumes and solid performances. But I think as an overall story it could be better with stronger characterization. It just didn't have that magic and I didn't care about the characters. But it's still worth a watch just because of how beautiful it looks. You could take hundreds of screengrabs that would make beautiful art for your walls. Every movie can't have that magic.

 

I have 30 minutes left. I may not get to it for a few days.

[Bastet]

I don't know how you can watch films in bits and pieces like that; if I fall asleep while watching something for the first time, I have to start over rather than picking up where I left off because the flow has been interrupted. 

 

And walking away with only 12 minutes left of something would make me twitch.  I may have issues.

[Julia]

although I've tried and tried to scrub the image of the skinny Frank Sinatra singing "Ol' Man River" while standing on a pedestal in white tails and it JUST DOESN'T WORK)

surrounded by an orchestra of white musicians in white tuxedos playing white instruments in a snow white room. Just sort takes you back to Showboat, with Joe standing on a dock in Hoboken watching the Hudson roll by, doesn't it?

 

I've come to the conclusion that the glory of the MGM musical rests pretty much solely on the Freed Unit.

I'm sure I'm just not giving them a chance, but I try really hard to avoid musicals from the Pasternak unit. They kind of make my teeth itch.

I've only seen Ray Milland in Dial M for Murder and Claudette in It Happened One Night so this was an interesting experience. He was very natural as a romantic leading man. Nice but not bland. Charming but not trying too hard to please.

I thought he was really charming in The Major and the Minor.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Julia

[aradia22]

 

 

I don't know how you can watch films in bits and pieces like that; if I fall asleep while watching something for the first time, I have to start over rather than picking up where I left off because the flow has been interrupted.

And walking away with only 12 minutes left of something would make me twitch.  I may have issues.

Ha! It's not ideal for me either but I've become obsessive and I like to write down quotes and get photos of the clothes I like to inspire me later. Thus, it takes me forever to get through a movie if it has great dialogue or costumes. And I don't have time to start from the beginning or I'll never get through the movies clogging up my DVR.

 

 

although I've tried and tried to scrub the image of the skinny Frank Sinatra singing "Ol' Man River" while standing on a pedestal in white tails and it JUST DOESN'T WORK)

surrounded by an orchestra of white musicians in white tuxedos playing white instruments in a snow white room. Just sort takes you back to Showboat, with Joe standing on a dock in Hoboken watching the Hudson roll by, doesn't it?

Oh, lord. My stomach hurts from laughing.

[Crisopera]

Ray Milland is great, but never really got to iconic status.  He appeared in several of my favorite movies - Easy Living (1937, script by Preston Sturges, directed by the perennially underrated Mitchell Leisen - probably my favorite screwball comedy), Ministry of Fear (1944, Fritz Lang), Kitty (1945, Leisen), The Lost Weekend (1945, Billy Wilder),  So Evil My Love (1948, Lewis Allen - an obscure period noir, in which he gives a really scary performance).  I've always liked him.

 

aradia22 - if you want to see a movie with incredible costumes, take a look at Kitty - the 18th century costumes by Raoul Pene du Bois are dazzling.  And Ray Milland looks fabulous in them!

[Milburn Stone]

...'Til the Clouds Roll By (another godawful musical with some nice numbers - althoughI 've tried and tried to scrub the image of the skinny Frank Sinatra singing "Ol' Man River" while standing on a pedestal in white tails and it JUST DOESN'T WORK).  I've come to the conclusion that the glory of the MGM musical rests pretty much solely on the Freed Unit. 

 

Just as a point of information, Till the Clouds Roll By was from the Freed Unit.

 

Now, not disagreeing with the ludicrousness of "Ol' Man River" in that film, but if you want to hear one of the best performances of that song ever given, look no further than Sinatra's performance, some years later, on The Concert Sinatra. (Reprise Records, 1963, widely available on CD and download.) His long-held low notes in that are absolutely stunning, and he gets right to the heart of the song.

[Crisopera]

Just as a point of information, Till the Clouds Roll By was from the Freed Unit.

 

Oh, believe me, I know that not everything the Freed Unit made was touched with genius.  And I will find that later Sinatra version of "Ol' Man River" - I think he is one of our best singers, just not in Till the Clouds Roll By.

[Milburn Stone]

 Oh, believe me, I know that not everything the Freed Unit made was touched with genius.  And I will find that later Sinatra version of "Ol' Man River" - I think he is one of our best singers, just not in Till the Clouds Roll By.

 

 

Agree with all of the above.

 

Re Ray (Milland), I agree he's underrated, and will definitely try to dig up So Evil My Love, of which I've never heard. Was there ever an actor so good who sank so low later in his career? From all those literally dozens of excellent performances in good-to-great films to The Thing with Two Heads with Rosey Grier? And such MST3K fodder as Panic in the Year Zero? I guess he just liked and/or needed to keep working, no matter what.

[Crisopera]

As far as Milland's embarrassing later career is concerned, he had a minor career directing low-budget movies, including "Panic in Year Zero."   I found this quote on IMdB: [when asked why he had appeared in so many bad films late in his career] "For the money, old chap, for the money!" 

 

If you haven't read it, his autobiography "Wide Eyed in Babylon" is very entertaining, if extremely superficial.

[Milburn Stone]

I haven't seen every latter-day Ray Milland performance, but judging from the ones I've seen, he not only found himself in awful material, he started giving pretty awful performances. It's as if it's a different actor. The charm, wit, and, I don't know, the fluidity of his performances in the thirties through fifties are gone, and he becomes stiff in body and voice, like the outer shell is all that's there, and even the outer shell doesn't know how to move anymore.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Milburn Stone

[aradia22]

I finished up Skylark. It was kind of unsatisfying. The slapstick on the boat didn't work for me and I didn't really buy it as motivation

for her going back to Tony

. There's a way to sell going with either man and I don't think they did a great job of making this ending work. But I'd still recommend watching the movie. It's good if not great and again it looks gorgeous.

[aradia22]

Sometimes you just really need to watch something in color. I had the time so I decided to put on A Star is Born (1954). Jesus Christ, this movie is long. Judy Garland was in top form. Her acting was more engaged than I've seen her in anything else and the musical numbers? Wow. That was like a master class. But it went on so long. It was more miniseries than movie. I didn't feel like all that time was really giving the characters more depth than they would have had in a 2 hour movie, maybe even in a one hour movie. I considered turning the film off in the beginning before Norman went to go find Esther and before she sang her second number in the blue dress at the club. He was just such an abusive troll of a drunk. I think the film recovered his character a little bit from there but I could never fully get behind him. It wasn't a bad performance and it wasn't a poorly written character. I can buy that there would be a character like that. But it wasn't compelling for me to watch. Even when he was sober I found him a bit of an asshole from the way he treated people (which yes, made sense with the characterization of a big Hollywood star who wasn't used to hearing no and had all his messes cleaned up for him) to the way his genuine moments still felt manipulative (like during the party where he told Esther she should stay away from him because he destroyed everything. I don't know if it was intentional on the part of his character but it was clear that would only make her cling harder to him). Even though he ended up making an unselfish choice, in making it, he took away her power to choose.

 

I suppose I'd compare it to movies like Funny Girl or Singin' in the Rain and maybe even Easter Parade. This didn't work as well for me outside of the musical numbers. It's still a good movie that everyone should see at least once and I'm glad that I saw it but it's just not the kind of thing that would connect with me because of Norman's character and the lack of depth. It was interesting to see them play around with the means of storytelling a bit though I wouldn't call it experimental. I was thrown off when the photographs started and I thought something was wrong with the way my DVR had recorded the movie. It also looked like a bunch of different movies. There was the garish movie of the first 10 minutes or so. Then it kind of morphed into Gypsy backstage when Norman wrote on the wall with the lipstick. Then there were the dark parts of the movie with all the shadows. There was a bit of that gritty 70's look. And there was also that clean brightly colored 50's musical look. I don't have the film vocabulary to discuss it in any other way but it was like watching a bunch of different movies at once. 

 

I did like the way it portrayed the movie making business and celebrity. Yeah, there were times when it was a bit more glamorous or humorous but I think there was enough truth in there with the way she was originally treated as a contract player and the crowds at the

funeral

. It just didn't move. I'll cry during almost anything and I didn't even tear up. It did what shorter movies do with the big dramatic speeches in lieu of slow character development. I was happy that Tom Noonan came back and I think they failed at making Libby the big villain because he totally had a point.

[aradia22]

Since I've seen Ex-Lady, I went back and watched Illicit. It's interesting to see how they changed things. Ex-Lady introduces the issue with the romantic rival and the disapproving father early while Illicit goes straight in with them living together and him pushing for marriage. But really, though, it was so strange to see Barbara Stanwyck with that crazy pre-Raphaelite hair... and singing too!  

 

I think Illicit is the better movie. It makes more sense. It's more tightly plotted. I get why everything's happening. Ex-Lady maybe has more to say but the structure is off and I don't think it has a good sense of its message, just the questions it wants to pose. The leading man in Illicit was no better than the one in Ex-Lady but his character was better. It made more sense to have the two rivals be hovering in the background as they were. They seemed much more random in Ex-Lady. Stanwyck's character was stronger as a woman who was frightened of marriage because of her parents and friends' divorces, who ended up being forced into marriage and being unhappy, etc. etc. Overall, the whole thing just made more sense and thus was more compelling and sympathetic than Davis' character who was like a weird bohemian doing relationship experiments... sort of? I feel like the long-winded drunk character might have been better in Ex-Lady though it helped that in Illicit he was just comic relief without the confusing sideplot with his wife. There were just too many extra side plots in Ex-Lady. The costumes in Illicit were also great.

 

I think it's worth it to watch both movies. There are worthwhile things in both and they're different enough that it's not like you're wasting time on a lesser version of one by watching the other.

[aradia22]

I still couldn't sleep so I watched Ziegfeld Follies (1945). I was able to relax without having to worry about the story since it was a revue. Thankfully the creepy puppets were gone after the opening. There was something very disturbing about those puppets and I usually like stop motion and that sort of thing. I wasn't that into the pink number. It seemed like a joke. Cyd Charisse's dancing didn't captivate as much as it normally does and Lucille Ball and the cat women were just odd. 

 

I only started to like the movie during Virginia O'Brien's number on the horse. I need more Virginia O'Brien performances. The Traviata number was also good. I don't have the best ear for opera but it's La Traviata and besides those Sharaff gowns were enough to keep me entertained.

 

The Lucille Bremer/Fred Astaire waltz was nice. I thought the princess dress she wore was boring until it started to move. Ugh, I love dresses like that. The sliding runways or whatever they used were a nice touch. I thought the number told a story effectively.

 

Of the comedic skits, the Fanny Brice one was the only one that got me to laugh. It gave me a little more perspective on Funny Girl to see the real Fanny Brice in action. The other performers weren't bad but the telephone operator and Red Skelton skits were kind of lame, like those SNL skits that have the smallest kernel of an amusing premise and go on way too long. The "Pay the Two Dollars" skit wasn't bad but I just felt bad for the guy. There's schadenfreude and then there's watching someone get abused for no reason.

 

I expected to love the Lena Horne number and sometimes it's just nice to see a performer like that on film but I thought the song was mediocre and the staging was awkward with everyone frozen.

 

Deep breath. So... the yellowface number. With both Fred and Lucille in yellow face. And the male character being a creepy stalker while the female character ended up being mercenary. For the sheer intensity of the Orientalism I'm going to say this was worse than the first time I saw him do blackface. Not as shocking but more insulting. 

 

It was cute to see Judy Garland ham it up but her song was also rather weak. 

 

I didn't really enjoy Kathryn Grayson's singing at the end but it might be worth watching for the spectacle of the foam and the Follies style dancers/models?

 

I'm going to say this is another one that you fast forward through or only watch clips of online, though I think it's worth it to watch it on a bigger screen.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

A Star is Born (1954). Jesus Christ, this movie is long.

I'll say. You're a trouper to actually sit through all those reconstructed sections without fast forwarding.  

 

Judy Garland was in top form. Her acting was more engaged than I've seen her in anything else

Agreed.  But what always kills me about this movie is that she looks like complete shit through almost the whole thing.  It's just shocking that she was only 32 when she made this - she looks like a  poorly preserved 52,  bloated and dowdy - especially compared to how beautiful she looked in say, Meet Me In St. Louis.  I don't know whether it was MGM vs. Warners, or the drinking and drugs, or being directed by a man who wasn't in love with her.  But wow.

[Wiendish Fitch]

I love A Star is Born, but I agree on Judy. I blame it on drink, drugs, and the fact that she was a bit of a yo-yo dieter. I felt bad for her, because all that crap takes its toll. It doesn't help that her make-up is dreadful, her hairdo is too severe, and the lighting only occasionally does her favors (none of those things are on her, by the way).

 

With all that said, screw it, because she's in top form. I get chills every time she sings "The Man That Got Away". It boggles my mind that anyone could cut  the "Born in a Trunk", because that number is… I can't think of any words good enough. I usually don't like going with the popular consensus, but I have to say that, yeah, Judy got robbed at Oscar time. Sorry, Grace Kelly fans, but The Country Girl is a dreary, forgettable slog of a movie, while A Star is Born is a masterpiece, Judy's finest acting ever.

[Rinaldo]

Yes, there are problems with A Star Is Born; Moss Hart probably should have been made to edit his screenplay before shooting (it just goes on too long for the kind of story it is) and George Cukor is probably at fault for not seeing that in advance. However, once it was shot and put together in its finished form, that's what it is. Brutal studio hacking away was not any kind of way to "fix" it. So now, in a valiant effort to make it complete again, we have this reconstruction that does the best possible with the discoverable surviving elements, and I'm grateful for it (even though panning over publicity stills during the dialogue soundtrack inevitably makes those restored scenes seem like interludes -- but what else could be done?). "Born in a Trunk" is a different matter: it was added in Cukor's absence and against his wishes. But who would want to do without it, now that we have it?

 

As for Garland going unawarded, it does seem inexplicable now. But those things are always about current perceptions and attitudes, rather than sheer quality. And it's hard to recapture what the members of the Academy would have been thinking about her at that moment. I would have thought the "comeback" factor would have helped her chances, but the stories of her ongoing difficulties (probably parsed as "unprofessional" in the popular press) must have outweighed that. Meanwhile, people are always excessively impressed when someone previously seen as just a beauty plays "against type," makes herself drab, and "acts serious" in some easily identifiable way, and that seems to have worked for Grace Kelly this time. (Other examples: Shirley Jones in Elmer Gantry, Elizabeth Taylor in Virginia Woolf.) And then a few years later they're ready to "make it up" to the star by over-awarding them for their next vehicle, but Garland never got another on that scale.

[Charlie Baker]

I agree with much of what's been said about A Star Is Born.  It is Garland at her performing peak.  As far as how she looks physically, it's really variable, throughout, and usually from not great to worse, but I think she looks quite nice, makeup, hair, and costume wise when she sings "Melancholy Baby" within the "Born in a Trunk" segment.

 

And Mason is tremendous in this movie, IMO.  He broke my heart. 

[aradia22]

 

Yes, there are problems with A Star Is Born; Moss Hart probably should have been made to edit his screenplay before shooting (it just goes on too long for the kind of story it is) and George Cukor is probably at fault for not seeing that in advance. However, once it was shot and put together in its finished form, that's what it is. Brutal studio hacking away was not any kind of way to "fix" it. So now, in a valiant effort to make it complete again, we have this reconstruction that does the best possible with the discoverable surviving elements, and I'm grateful for it (even though panning over publicity stills during the dialogue soundtrack inevitably makes those restored scenes seem like interludes -- but what else could be done?).

Ahhh, thank you. Those parts makes so much more sense to me now. I'd thought that they were intentional.

 

Also, Rinaldo, will you be joining us on the boards for awards season? 

 

Honestly, not knowing how old she was and not having that perfect image of Judy Garland in the back of my mind, I don't think she looked that bad in A Star is Born. She pales in comparison to her former self but she's still very attractive.

 

Has anyone else seen Illicit or Ziegfeld Follies who wants to chat? Or to tell me where I can find more Virginia O'Brien?

[Badger]

I like the original nonmusical version of "A Star is Born" starring Fredric March and Janet Gaynor very much.  

 

There's a story that Barbra Streisand wanted Elvis to do the remake with her but Col. Parker refused because Elvis would not have top billing.

[Rinaldo]

Rinaldo, will you be joining us on the boards for awards season? 

What awards season is that?

[Charlie Baker]

I also recall hearing or reading that Streisand went straight to Elvis rather than through the Colonel, and that was a deal breaker.  The Colonel completely controlled what Elvis did. 

 

That version can be tough to sit through if you're not a major Streisand fan, plus Kristofferson is wildly uneven throughout.

 

I think the Gaynor/March version holds up pretty well.   I don't remember much about What Price Hollywood--said to be a chief inspiration for A Star Is Born--which I saw as a kid.  Who out there recalls it and what did you think?

[aradia22]

 

What awards season is that?

Film. I mainly tune in for the Golden Globes and Oscars. I don't have the patience for the SAG's and all the other ones.

[3pwood]

Charlie Baker, I've seen What Price Hollywood? more than once but don't remember much about it except that Constance Bennett was beautiful & did a great job.  I liked the story & thought it was well done, but can't even remember the names of the two male leads, or much about them.  I considered it on a par with the original A Star Is Born (March & Gaynor), & preferred both of those to the Garland version, which I've tried to appreciate but just can't -- I've managed to avoid the Streisand version.

[Wiendish Fitch]

Has anyone else seen Illicit or Ziegfeld Follies who wants to chat? Or to tell me where I can find more Virginia O'Brien

 

 

Love Virginia O'Brien! She's wonderful in The Harvey Girls and one of the very, very, very few good things about DuBarry Was a Lady.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Wiendish Fitch

[Crisopera]

I've seen What Price Hollywood and enjoyed it.  Constance Bennett really is terrific in it, and Lowell Sherman, who plays the (in this case platonic) mentor figure is very touching.  He himself had been a big silent star and directed several successful films (including She Done Him Wrong and Morning Glory, for which Katharine Hepburn won her first Oscar).  Apparently he based his performance in Hollywood on his one-time brother-in-law John Barrymore. A very witty performer, he died sadly youngish.  Unfortunately, the other man is played by the perpetually middle-aged Neil Hamilton - not exactly an exciting romantic lead.

[aradia22]

Oh, dear. I wrote this whole long thing about The Old Maid and the internet ate it. Well, let's see what I can remember. I'm an hour in. The costumes are gorgeous.  I love gowns like that. They fit so beautifully, it's almost like a gown made like a suit. The script is pretty basic. Straightforward with no particular wit or finesse. The movie is attractive. I don't really understand why everyone is so angry and resentful. I think I prefer the story Roman Fever by Edith Wharton and the movies The Heiress and Old Acquaintance which have shades of this story told better. The performances are not bad. George Brent is better here than in anything else I've seen him in though he's still a little stiff and his character isn't that sympathetic. Bette Davis and Miriam Hopkins are fine though I'm always conscious that they're acting and there's a sense of remove and artificiality. It's not a bad movie and it's certainly watchable but the script and story could be better. I was intrigued by the suggestion that Joe might have loved Charlotte enough to take in Tina. I'm not sure if that would have cleared up the issue of her legitimacy. 

 

Slightly off topic, but I caught a bit of that made for TV Natalie Wood movie on Ovation. TCM tends to play the same Natalie Wood movies over and over but they don't show a lot of her filmography. Is it a rights issue again?

[voiceover]

Cary Grant month!  I guess I'd be down with a 24-hour showing of His Girl Friday, my not-even-close, favorite Cary pic.  A movie notable in his career for playing the pursuer, not the pursued.  And, btw, this screenplay waaaayyyy superior to its source material, The Front Page.  Must be all that overlapping dialogue ("'B' for 'Brains'...").

[aradia22]

Cary Grant is one of those actors I like though I haven't seen most of his most beloved and most respected movies in their entirety. I'm going to make a point of sitting down to watch Bringing Up Baby and The Awful Truth and Penny Serenade and The Philadelphia Story and My Favorite Wife in their entirety because it's weird being the person who instead likes him for Night and Day.

[aradia22]

I finished up The Old Maid. My opinion really didn't change. At least they admitted that everyone hated each other but I think it happened before that. Charlotte seemed to hate Delia as soon as she heard that Clem came back. That ending was kind of a letdown. Was she really such a poor pathetic creature that would have satisfied her? It didn't seem to gel with the character Bette Davis had been playing for most of the movie. Now I really want to read the novella to see if they changed things.

[voiceover]

it's weird being the person who instead likes him for Night and Day

 

Was it the first time you saw him on film?  Sometimes that's the one that sticks with you.  

Slightly skewed version of this: I think about all those classic stars I first came to know through TV series.   I was stunned to see Fred MacMurray & Robert Young as dapper leading men.  And the first time I saw Barbara Stanwyck?  As the old crone Mary Carson of The Thorn Birds.    *That* was a tough one to get past.

I'd only known Ray Milland from ABC Tuesday Night at the Movies, and was shocked to see him -- well -- charming and adorable -- in Reap the Wild Wind.

[aradia22]

I decided to take a chance on Beauty For the Asking, not expecting much. It was a fine little movie. That little boy delivering the packages of face cream was adorable. I sometimes wonder what ever happened to those child actors, the ones who weren't Margaret O'Brien. Everyone was acting like Flora was some horrible monster. She's 6-7 years older than him and a little plain. So what? Actually, I'm not convinced she's actually that plain. She has good bone structure. Let her hair down instead of pulling it back and style it so it doesn't look as severe, groom her brows, and let her wear some makeup and she's good about as good as most of the society ladies gossiping about her. I should have seen a makeover coming. I don't know why it took both women so long to come to their senses about Denny. He was announcing he wasn't a great guy about every 5 minutes. I thought the beautiful sculpture was actually a bit creepy. I like the movie ended with female friendship and even though it had to cheat a bit with time jumps, I thought they did a nice job of getting the story across in an hour without making it seem underdeveloped. This is how you use your time wisely. The script wasn't a knockout but it had its moments of banter. Good performances across the board. Yeah, I would totally recommend checking this one out, especially since it's so short.

[Bastet]

And the first time I saw Barbara Stanwyck?  As the old crone Mary Carson of The Thorn Birds.

 

I remember watching Stella Dallas in a college film course with a classmate who only knew Stanwyck from an episode of Charlie's Angels. 

Edited December 2, 2014 by Bastet

[Julia]

I didn't really enjoy Kathryn Grayson's singing at the end but it might be worth watching for the spectacle of the foam and the Follies style dancers/models?

 

FWIW, Kathryn Grayson gave an interview on film (maybe in one of the That's Entertainment movies?) where she said that she absolutely loathed that song, but she was SOL because Arthur Freed wrote it.

[mariah23]

Was it the first time you saw him on film?  Sometimes that's the one that sticks with you.  

Slightly skewed version of this: I think about all those classic stars I first came to know through TV series.   I was stunned to see Fred MacMurray & Robert Young as dapper leading men.  And the first time I saw Barbara Stanwyck?  As the old crone Mary Carson of The Thorn Birds.    *That* was a tough one to get past.

I'd only known Ray Milland from ABC Tuesday Night at the Movies, and was shocked to see him -- well -- charming and adorable -- in Reap the Wild Wind.

Hey, I'll always remember June Allyson and Robert Stack as the Depends lady and Unsolved Mysteries guy.  I was actually shocked that they had huge careers before those shows!

[Milburn Stone]

FWIW, Kathryn Grayson gave an interview on film (maybe in one of the That's Entertainment movies?) where she said that she absolutely loathed that song, but she was SOL because Arthur Freed wrote it.

 

Freed might have written the lyric for "There's Beauty Everywhere," but the great Harry Warren wrote the music, and this is why I've always loved the song in all its craziness--right down to that crazy high note from Grayson that ends it.

 

She might have thought she was SOL to have to sing it, but I think it's one of the best things she ever did!

Edited December 3, 2014 by Milburn Stone

[Charlie Baker]

voiceover, I get what you're saying about Stanwyck--but Thorn Birds gave her a great end of career role, to be sure.

 

Caught a bit of Cary Grant with Mae West the other night.  Weren't his couple of films with her kind of his breakthrough? As for Ms. West--well, there's somebody whose appeal hasn't worn well over time.  Though she still has her moments, and I can imagine how she must have been polarizing--how the uptights of the time could have been scandalized and how her fans ate it up. And how she helped usher in the Code.

Watched The Last of Mrs. Cheyney, and more than anything else, was disappointed that William Powell didn't have more to do, but of course what he did was cherce. This was a remake of a Norma Shearer vehicle that had first been a play, and I can imagine that version could have been more talky and stagier than this one.  Though, as a drawing room comedy, it certainly has those qualities.  It's quite entertaining, and Joan Crawford does well, though I imagine someone else might have gotten more laughs in the role.  Robert Montgomery has the right light touch in the male lead, who's not particularly likable, but then none of the characters especially are, on reflection.  The supporting cast is good (I always enjoy Jessie Ralph) and the design overall is pretty sumptuous looking in the 30s MGM way.