Spencer Reid: Gorgeous Gray Matter

[ReidFan]

opinion seems to be divided on Annihilator, but I think we can all agree that Reid looked great. I present a little evidence (it took me longer to screencap and reformat the episode than it did to initially watch it lol)

and a few more (wouldn't let me upload them all in one  message)

 

lol.... it tells me too many files, so I break it into multiple messages.......and then it merges them all into one message anyway

Edited March 8, 2018 by ReidFan
adding comment

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, ReidFan said:

and a few more (wouldn't let me upload them all in one  message)

Oh, god, this part of the episode, while Reid was pleading with Emily to return, I was actually sitting here thinking, "C'mon, Emily, he's got the puppy dog eyes going on. You cannot say no to the puppy dog eyes." :p. 

Lovely screencaps! Thanks for sharing them :D. 

[ReidFan]

I'm always amazed at how Matthew can just tear up when needed. No glycerin drops needed for this thespian :)

[ReidFan]

happy birthday to my favourite actor 

[normasm]

4 hours ago, ReidFan said:

happy birthday to my favourite actor 

Thanks, Riff, he's gorgeous

[ReidFan]

I can't get over what a cute baby he was :)

[normasm]

Hahaha, look at his dark eyelids when he's on his g'ma's lap!

[ReidFan]

34 minutes ago, normasm said:

Hahaha, look at his dark eyelids when he's on his g'ma's lap!

will I get in trouble for suggesting that I think he looks like he's loading the diaper ?

[normasm]

Would I get in trouble if I said I thought if he was loading his diaper, he'd have the most blissful smile on his face!

[Annber03]

Cute kid photos :D. I like the second one with him all dressed up. Happy birthday to MGG!

[Fashionista7]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MATTHEW GRAY GUBLER!!!

YOU AND MY BROTHER HAVE THE SAME BIRTHDAY!!!

[senin]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY !!! 

[Mislav]

It's pretty annoying that, ever since season ten or so, Spencer appears to have literally nothing to do outside the BAU (except for taking care of his mother. And getting framed for murder once). In seasons eight and seven, at least he'd give lectures or something. I know some things may be happening off screen, but I don't tune in so I could think of what might be happening to one of the main chatacters.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Mislav

[ReidFan]

How many can you identify without going back and watching the episodes?

[ReidFan]

images from The Capilanos...

[Annber03]

Oooh, that's a good outfit on him :D. Thanks, as always, for sharing them!

I'm going to post this interview about tonight's episode here, siince it's with Gubler specifically:

http://tvline.com/2018/03/21/criminal-minds-season-13-matthew-gray-gubler-director-killer-clowns/

I've avoided reading the discussion thread for this episode thus far, but judging from the way he talks about this one, I'm looking very forward to seeing it :D!. Probably helps that I don't really have a fear of clowns, though :p. I get why people would find them scary, for sure, but they've never really bothered me personally. It's always so neat to hear him talk about directing episodes.  

I also like his thoughts on his whole teaching gig thing in last week's episode. Interesting way to look at it :). 

[senin]

3 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Oooh, that's a good outfit on him :D. Thanks, as always, for sharing them!

I'm going to post this interview about tonight's episode here, siince it's with Gubler specifically:

http://tvline.com/2018/03/21/criminal-minds-season-13-matthew-gray-gubler-director-killer-clowns/

I've avoided reading the discussion thread for this episode thus far, but judging from the way he talks about this one, I'm looking very forward to seeing it :D!. Probably helps that I don't really have a fear of clowns, though :p. I get why people would find them scary, for sure, but they've never really bothered me personally. It's always so neat to hear him talk about directing episodes.  

I also like his thoughts on his whole teaching gig thing in last week's episode. Interesting way to look at it :). 

I think I've said this before: If I hadn't been in love with the actor and the character by then, I would have fallen in love when I first watched Gubler Direct, the interview he did when he first directed for the show. His enthusiasm for what he does is so beautiful to see !! (I'm really struggling with words here, I hope I've been able to express myself more or less clearly)

Thanks for sharing the link, Annber !! And thanks to ReidFan for the screencaps. 

[Annber03]

You're welcome, and yeah, you expressed yourself just fine, @senin :)! I completely agree. I love that little BTS thing of the first time he got to direct for the show, too. You could just see how utterly excited he was :D. I'm glad the show's allowed him to do something he truly loves, and many times at that, and I also appreciate that they allow him to be so creative with his directing. 

[senin]

3 hours ago, ReidFan said:

How many can you identify without going back and watching the episodes?

I love what you did here!! And I am going to try, at least with some of them:

F- Mr Scratch 

E- Elliot's Pond

This is harder than it seems!! I can't see the picture is G well, it's too dark but it might be Mosley Lane ?

Editing to correct my previous mistake: E is The Capilanos. I think I can't do the rest without cheating !!

Edited March 21, 2018 by senin

[JMO]

The discussion of the final episode of season 13, 'Believer', seemed to have devolved to a discussion of Reid becoming a serial killer, so I've moved my response here.

No, I don't think he is at risk of becoming a serial killer.  I do think he is at risk of serious depression, especially since the FBI has concocted a plan to isolate him from his support system at regular intervals.  I think we saw, in Believer, that this isn't working for him.  He's as focused on his own guilt as ever, and still trying to sort through the events of last year.  It's too bad we didn't get to hear him verbalize some of that (because JJ did it for him, what little there was).  

We know that the cockamamie 100/30 plan was a way to incorporate MGG's contracted absences.  If we get a season 14, and knowing that he's already signed, it would be safe to assume he's got the same contractual stipulations.  So, what are some thoughts about how Reid's absences might be better accommodated next year? 

In season 12, he had a parallel arc, filmed out of sequence, that kept him on screen through some of MGG's time off.  Could that be done again?

Could we see him working through his issues in therapy?  (One additional actor, one set)  Have him work cold cases, one or two of which he eventually brings to the team? (filmed a la the prison arc)  What else?

[normasm]

I like both your scenarios, jmo, and i would hope they could actually incorporate both. Seeing him in therapy would also be a good way to show what his job is, and the toll it takes on committed people. And the cold case scenario could also be done with maybe one or two other actors in a different FBI office setting. His making new friends would also help the character by forming new friendships, perhaps a girlfriend (but not necessarily). 

[JenJenBosco]

55 minutes ago, JMO said:

The discussion of the final episode of season 13, 'Believer', seemed to have devolved to a discussion of Reid becoming a serial killer, so I've moved my response here.

No, I don't think he is at risk of becoming a serial killer.  I do think he is at risk of serious depression, especially since the FBI has concocted a plan to isolate him from his support system at regular intervals.  I think we saw, in Believer, that this isn't working for him.  He's as focused on his own guilt as ever, and still trying to sort through the events of last year.  It's too bad we didn't get to hear him verbalize some of that (because JJ did it for him, what little there was).  

We know that the cockamamie 100/30 plan was a way to incorporate MGG's contracted absences.  If we get a season 14, and knowing that he's already signed, it would be safe to assume he's got the same contractual stipulations.  So, what are some thoughts about how Reid's absences might be better accommodated next year? 

In season 12, he had a parallel arc, filmed out of sequence, that kept him on screen through some of MGG's time off.  Could that be done again?

Could we see him working through his issues in therapy?  (One additional actor, one set)  Have him work cold cases, one or two of which he eventually brings to the team? (filmed a la the prison arc)  What else?

First, I didn't know how to move my comment to here after I wrote it, but it occurs to me that it didn't really discuss the episode, so maybe it should be moved?  I don't know.

Anyway, I want to preface this by saying that I don't want him to become a killer, I know there are a lot of fanfictions or fanfic writes that liked to support this idea that he could become a serial killer that they would never be able to find, but I never liked that idea.  

However, I think he does have depression, especially with what you said above.  The only people he has in his life are his co-workers, and he's consistently taken away from them at regular intervals.  I wonder if this constantly happening is making him wonder if they are only his friends because of work.  Do you they seem him or call him when he's off?  We don't know.  I've wondered if he feels betrayed by the 100./30 plan, given that he didn't actually kill anyone, and he spent time in prison for no reason.  

If these were the old writers who were interested in his character or at least appeared that way, I would say that they could help him the way you suggested and he would get better, but with these writers, I don't think they want him to get better.  I think they would assume that it would be more fun to write him as going off the deep end.  

Anyway, I hope I am wrong because I just can't deal with a serial killer Reid.  

[K42]

I'd like to know how to move my posts here as well. Anyway, I think the writers should have at least mentioned Reid being in therapy this season. We got to see very little of him and everytime he was gone, he was either teaching or something else. Anyway, even if he was in therapy this season, I don't know if it's working for him. He's seen too much.

As for dealing with Reid becoming a killer, we've seen him do unethical things back when he was in prison. Some of the things he did were out of self-defense but still, it seemed so unlike him to do all this. A part of me would really hate it if Spencer were to become a killer because I do want him to make a complete turn-around and be happy. But another part of me wants to see the different sides of Reid. We've seen dorky Reid, druggie Reid, brilliant Reid, prison Reid and so on. So why not a psychopathic Reid? I'd love to see what MGG will do with a dark and dangerous Reid. I think serious roles suit him very well.

Anyway, this is all speculation. We don't even know if CM is going to get renewed or not. If it does, I really hope episode 300 goes beyond all of our expectations and speculations. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by KatsDivision

[JMO]

Here's the thing----there are tragedies we, the viewers, have been witness to, and many more that have happened off screen.  I think that's why it feels like Reid is the sacrifical lamb, because we've seen portrayed pretty much all of his tragedies, even the ones of his childhood, courtesy of the flashbacks in Revelations.  That doesn't mean the others haven't suffered. 

Just a list from memory:

• We saw only a little of what Rossi went through in Vietnam, but there are no doubt a great many stories he's yet to tell.  He's lost friends and loved ones, mostly off screen.
• We saw Hotch lose his marriage, have both his body and his ego assaulted, and then lose his ex-wife in an excruciatingly painful scene.  Then he underwent psychological torture and eventually had to leave his job, at the bidding of a serial killer, the latter off screen.
• We saw Gideon lose his love, and then his moxie (and maybe his mind).  We saw Elle nearly killed, and then we saw her so psychologically damaged that she unnecessarily took a life (there's your budding serial killer).
• We've seen and been told of several of the tragedies of Emily's life---a teenage pregnancy, the loss of her friends (Demonology), the loss of more friends, and her own near death in the Lauren arc.  Some on screen, some off.
• We know that JJ suffered the suicide of her sister when she was still quite young and impressionable.  Would it have been more impactful for us to see it, via flashback, than to hear her tell Hotch about it?  (though I think that's my favorite JJ scene ever).  She was traumatized in Afghanistan and again in DC, and suffers PTSD.  She nearly lost her not-yet-husband, who almost cost her the life of her son.
• We know that Garcia lost her parents in an accident for which she feels responsible, and now we've seen it portrayed.  We've seen her shot.  And now, God help us, we've seen her kidnapped.
• As to the newbies:  We know Tara has loved and lost, and had a tragic history with her father and brother.  We saw her angst with her brother's imposter.  We know Luke has a complex history in Iraq and with the fugitive task force, but those stories have not yet been told.  We know Simmons has a wife and four kids, and has already been through the requisite 'loved one in trouble' episode.

I guess my point is that Reid isn't the only one.  He's just the only one we've seen, through all of it.  Given the choice between having him go through his ordeals on screen or not, I choose on screen.  MGG has been more than capable of portraying each event.  That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see happy Reid sometimes.  But 'happy' goes off screen pretty quickly, and a Reidless screen makes me change the channel.

[JenJenBosco]

That's an interesting perspective, @JMO.  I think that if I knew he'd get a happy ending at the end, I wouldn't mind the journey.  I liked seeing the journey before Maeve, and even after I liked watching him in seasons 9, 10, 11 because I believed he'd get something happy...I think if they showed nuggets of happiness, like a mention of an off-screen friend or something similar, I'd be okay, but it seems like lately, he has nothing except the team.  

• Hotch lost Haley, but we got to see him be happy with Jack and later, Beth.
• Rossi lost a lot in Vietnam, but we see that he has friends, and later connected with his daughter and grandson.
• JJ went through a lot as well, but she has her husband and sons, and we often see her happiness.  
• Prentiss went through a lot, but again, she had friends and later moved onto lead interpol and genuinely seems to have people in her life (some guy, right?)
• Garcia was shot and dealt with PTSD, but had Kevin for most of the series and her flirty banter with Morgan.
• Morgan went the stuff with Buford, was also accused of murder, and tortured, yet, he moved on with his wife and son in order to deal with it.
• Blake couldn't take it anymore at the reminder of losing her son, and went off with her husband happily.
• Kate almost lost her niece, and did lose her sister, but also went off happily with her new baby and family.
• As for Gideon and Elle, we don't know how their lives went on, but it appears they found peace, did they not?
• As for the newbies, I don't know anything about them, but don't they also have people in their lives?

I think I would be okay watching him go through these trials and turbulations if he had someone other than the team.  Someone he can lean on rather than the team.  That's all I really care about.  

[JMO]

How ever did I forget Morgan!  He, Blake, Gideon, Elle and Hotch all left because of tragedy.  Apart from Morgan, who has seemed happy enough on his returns to the show, we don't really know how life has gone for those who've departed the team.  Except Gideon, of course.

But I get your point, and I don't disagree that we could use more happy Reid.  I'm just not averse to being with him when he goes through what he goes through. 

There was a conversation on another board about whether Reid needs someone else in his life, in order to be happy.  I come down on the side of 'no'.  I don't think he would turn away from a relationship, should the possibility arise, but I don't think he needs one.  He and Maeve found one another through the serendipity of a professional consultation.  That took him by pleasant surprise, and I think it opened him up to thinking about his future in a different way (including wanting a child of his own).  But I'm not sure that vision of his future survived Maeve, and I don't think he is either actively looking for, or pining for, a relationship. 

Could he use some more friends?  Does he already have them?  I'm not sure.  We know he's got the chess kids, and we know he frequents film series, so maybe he's at least got some acquaintances.  But he's an introvert, and would tend to have a smaller social circle.  I think his important friendships are the ones we see on screen.  It would be nice to see them in a different setting, perhaps.  I would pay extra money to have a Reid/Henry outing.  

[JenJenBosco]

10 minutes ago, JMO said:

How ever did I forget Morgan!  He, Blake, Gideon, Elle and Hotch all left because of tragedy.  Apart from Morgan, who has seemed happy enough on his returns to the show, we don't really know how life has gone for those who've departed the team.  Except Gideon, of course.

But I get your point, and I don't disagree that we could use more happy Reid.  I'm just not averse to being with him when he goes through what he goes through. 

There was a conversation on another board about whether Reid needs someone else in his life, in order to be happy.  I come down on the side of 'no'.  I don't think he would turn away from a relationship, should the possibility arise, but I don't think he needs one.  He and Maeve found one another through the serendipity of a professional consultation.  That took him by pleasant surprise, and I think it opened him up to thinking about his future in a different way (including wanting a child of his own).  But I'm not sure that vision of his future survived Maeve, and I don't think he is either actively looking for, or pining for, a relationship. 

Could he use some more friends?  Does he already have them?  I'm not sure.  We know he's got the chess kids, and we know he frequents film series, so maybe he's at least got some acquaintances.  But he's an introvert, and would tend to have a smaller social circle.  I think his important friendships are the ones we see on screen.  It would be nice to see them in a different setting, perhaps.  I would pay extra money to have a Reid/Henry outing.  

Here's the thing: I tend to look at Reid prior to Maeve differently than Reid after Maeve.

Prior to Maeve:

I completely agree that he didn't need anyone else.  He seemed perfectly with his life exactly how it was.  He didn't care for relationships, he didn't try to find someone to be with.  I always thought he was celibate willingly, like he didn't feel the end to pursue one-night stands like Morgan.  He had the kids in the park, he had his lectures, he had his schooling, he clearly had other friends (wasn't he friends with Blake before she joined the team? and what about Ethan?).  He seemed happy and content with his life and he didn't need someone else to make him happy.

I never even noticed the times between Lila and Austen.  I didn't realize that it had been years since a love interest was mentioned for him when season started because he wasn't pining for someone else in his life.

After Maeve:

He seems to want what everyone else has.  He wants kids, and a family.  He seems sad whenever ever the topic comes up because he does want it.  I think the show kept showing that he was missing something after he lost Maeve, and that's why after season 8, I feel like he needs someone else to be happy.  

I think part of this has to do with the fact that the writers have given everyone else someone on the outside of the team besides him.

I do find it interesting though, that maybe he's different after Maeve because she made him realize that he wanted that future and it was taken from him.  Maybe that's why my point of view changed regarding his need or lack thereof for someone else in his life.  

 

Also, side note, I would love to see more Reid and Henry or even Reid and Hank.  It would be adorable.

[Lebanna]

And that's the first time I've realised that JJ's son and Morgan's son have the same name.

[JenJenBosco]

53 minutes ago, Lebanna said:

And that's the first time I've realised that JJ's son and Morgan's son have the same name.

They don't have the same name?

[normasm]

Hank is a nickname for Henry, which begs the question: was Morgan's dad really Henry, or was he Hank, or was that just sloppy name research by the show?

[JenJenBosco]

1 minute ago, normasm said:

Hank is a nickname for Henry, which begs the question: was Morgan's dad really Henry, or was he Hank, or was that just sloppy name research by the show?

Ohhh, I don't know anyone named Hank or Henry, so I didn't realize that Hank was a nickname for Henry.  Side note: How do you get Hank out of Henry?  It's not like Jen from Jennifer or Chrissy from Christina or Spence from Spencer or Dave from David...like I'm genuinely confused, how did that happen?

Does anyone else get confused by things like that?

[normasm]

It's one of those old-fashioned nicknames, like getting Peggy out of Margaret. I don't know where it comes from, either!

[JenJenBosco]

Peggy out of Margaret?  I didn't know that was a thing.  Although, I would love to know how these things come to fruition. 

[normasm]

Yeah, how did folks come up with Jack for John, or Minnie for Mary?! Anyway, off-topic.... =)

[JMO]

2 hours ago, JenJenBosco said:

Here's the thing: I tend to look at Reid prior to Maeve differently than Reid after Maeve.

Prior to Maeve:

I completely agree that he didn't need anyone else.  He seemed perfectly with his life exactly how it was.  He didn't care for relationships, he didn't try to find someone to be with.  I always thought he was celibate willingly, like he didn't feel the end to pursue one-night stands like Morgan.  He had the kids in the park, he had his lectures, he had his schooling, he clearly had other friends (wasn't he friends with Blake before she joined the team? and what about Ethan?).  He seemed happy and content with his life and he didn't need someone else to make him happy.

I never even noticed the times between Lila and Austen.  I didn't realize that it had been years since a love interest was mentioned for him when season started because he wasn't pining for someone else in his life.

After Maeve:

He seems to want what everyone else has.  He wants kids, and a family.  He seems sad whenever ever the topic comes up because he does want it.  I think the show kept showing that he was missing something after he lost Maeve, and that's why after season 8, I feel like he needs someone else to be happy.  

I think part of this has to do with the fact that the writers have given everyone else someone on the outside of the team besides him.

I do find it interesting though, that maybe he's different after Maeve because she made him realize that he wanted that future and it was taken from him.  Maybe that's why my point of view changed regarding his need or lack thereof for someone else in his life.  

 

Also, side note, I would love to see more Reid and Henry or even Reid and Hank.  It would be adorable.

That's an interesting analysis, JenJen, and I can definitely see where Maeve was a milestone in his life.  Now I think prison will serve as another one.  

He was delightful with the daughter of a victim in one episode last year---can't remember which.  Whether it's his godsons or another little kid, I hope we get to see more of that.  Who knows, maybe it would help him to heal.

[ForeverAlone]

I think even for dedicated introverts, years upon years upon years of near solitude can weigh on you. I think most of the fandom has come to the agreement that Reid is not on the autism spectrum, so I don't think he is as adverse to personal relationships otherwise. 

Yeah, he has friends, but all of those friends have lives of their own, and being friends with married people with children means you are often standing on the outside. His one family member he is actually close to is deteriorating. While solitude can be enjoyable, it can also be crushing after a while, if you feel like you don't have solid connections of your own. Whether or not it is an intentional story choice (I don't exactly trust this show when it comes to writing anymore), Reid really did come across as more emotionally disconnected from the people around him in the finale, even JJ. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by ForeverAlone

[JenJenBosco]

3 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

I think even for dedicated introverts, years upon years upon years of near solitude can weigh on you. I think most of the fandom has come to the agreement that Reid is not on the autism spectrum, so I don't think he is as adverse to personal relationships otherwise. 

Yeah, he has friends, but all of those friends have lives of their own, and being friends with married people with children means you are often standing on the outside. His one family member he is actually close to is deteriorating. While solitude can be enjoyable, it can also be crushing after a while, if you feel like you don't have solid connections of your own. Whether or not it is an intentional story choice or not (I don't exactly trust this show when it comes to writing anymore), Reid really did come across as more emotionally disconnected from the people around him in the finale, even JJ. 

I think is what it is.  He's introverted and likes to be alone, but now, he's been alone for so long that he doesn't want it anymore.  And yes, he has other friends, but all of them have their own lives, he's always on the outside observing, and I think he's reached the point where it's too much.

[Annber03]

9 hours ago, JenJenBosco said:

If these were the old writers who were interested in his character or at least appeared that way, I would say that they could help him the way you suggested and he would get better, but with these writers, I don't think they want him to get better.  I think they would assume that it would be more fun to write him as going off the deep end.  

I really don't feel that's the case with these writers, that they "don't want him to get better". I think it's more just that this is a drama series, and so they'll write big dramatic things for him, and for the rest of the team, as @JMO notes (and I loved your post about how everyone on the team has been through some kind of deep trauma, on and off screen). And they know dramatic storylines with Reid will get viewers and buzz. For all I hear from fans (and I'm speaking in general terms here, this isn't targeted at anyone here in particular) about how they want Reid to be happy, many of their favorite episodes involving him are ones where he's in some sort of peril ("Revelations", "Amplification", and the like), and then I go into the fanfic and there are SO MANY stories where fans put him through things that are sometimes even worse than what he's been through on the show. So I can see the writers being a little confused over what some fans say they want and what they actually want as a result.

Plus, considering Gubler himself seemed to have a hand in how the Maeve storyline played out, and apparently was on board for the prison storyline last year, I think he also enjoys some of these big dramatic stories as well. So I don't think it's just the writers wanting to beat on the character here. It's exciting for actors to play those big dramatic arcs. 

All of that being said, I honestly think, if we do see a fully properly happy Reid, it'll either be his final storyline if and when he decides to leave the show someday, or it'll be in the show's final season altogether. Speaking for myself, I do want Reid to find the peace and happiness he seeks eventually, whether it's through a romantic relationship* or a change in job, if he really wants to move into teaching someday, or even sticking with the BAU but getting some sort of new role within it or something, or whatever. And I would like to see him get a break for a while if only because I think he does deserve a breather to properly work through everything he's already been through (and I am all on board with the therapy idea, or doing some side work, as a happier/quieter excuse for Reid's absence from an episode). But I also think @JMO's post about this show tending to lean on the tragedy and drama is spot on.

*Re: the romantic relationships, I love @JenJenBosco's analysis of Reid pre and post-Maeve-I think it's pretty well spot on. And since a family and somebody in his life is something he's been shown to want in recent years, I do want him to get that eventually. I do find it odd whenever people find it so odd he's still in his 30s and single (or even possibly a virgin), though. That concept isn't quite as strange or unbelievable as some seem to think. 

7 hours ago, JenJenBosco said:

Also, side note, I would love to see more Reid and Henry or even Reid and Hank.  It would be adorable.

YES. Henry's turning ten (!) this year, so it'd be wonderful to see him and Reid celebrating that milestone somehow. I remember that drawing JJ showed Reid when she came to visit him in prison-I think, if the show wanted to explore some of the fallout of his time in prison, one route they could go is to see Henry maybe having some questions about why his godfather was gone so long last season, or being upset that his godfather suddenly wasn't there for a period of time, and Reid talking to Henry about all of that somehow, and bonding with him again. I could see Reid feeling like he's failed as a godfather or something because he's supposed to be a good role model for Henry, and maybe he feels the prison thing has tarnished that somehow. So a happy moment or event of some kind between them could go a long way towards helping Reid move past that guilt and fear. 

And agreed on Reid and Hank, too. Reid really is wonderful with kids, so maybe that could be another alternate career path he could consider someday, too. He'd have a field day being able to teach children about all the cool stuff out there in the world :D. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Annber03

[JenJenBosco]

@Annber03

I like what you wrote about what fans say they want versus their favorite episodes being ones he's tortured in.   And like you said, tons of fanfiction writers choose to torture him as well, worse than the series.  I suppose that due to him being my favorite that I tend to focus on his trauma, and forget that this is a drama.  For the actor and writers, it's much better for them to write these dramatic moments. 

What you said about being in his thirties and single, I think everyone forgets that Morgan, Elle, and Prentiss were single for most of the series and in their thirties (if I am not mistaken).  Rossi has spent most of series, single as well, and he deserves better than the his 2nd ex-wife, IMO.  I'd rather him be single than with her, but this is Reid's thread.  

I think sometimes I forget that the story isn't over, as long as they don't go down the Serial Killer route, he has a chance at a happy ending.  Maybe I need to remember that when I think about the series.  

"If you want a happy ending, it depends on where you stop the story" -Orson Welles.  

[Annber03]

4 minutes ago, JenJenBosco said:

@Annber03

I like what you wrote about what fans say they want versus their favorite episodes being ones he's tortured in.   And like you said, tons of fanfiction writers choose to torture him as well, worse than the series.  I suppose that due to him being my favorite that I tend to focus on his trauma, and forget that this is a drama.  For the actor and writers, it's much better for them to write these dramatic moments. 

Thanks :). I will say, though, that I do think, for many Reid fans, those sorts of episodes aren't their favorites specifically because he's in danger, or because they actually enjoy seeing him tortured and in pain. That may be the case for some fans, but I think for most, it's more that they like those episodes because it's a good opportunity to let us see how Reid uses his brain and cleverness to outwit whomever's putting him in danger. or see him showing that remarkable and wonderfully deep empathy of his in an attempt to connect with the unsub(s) in question. Those are certainly some of the main things I love about "Revelations", for instance. I just don't know that most writers really catch on to that fact right away, because usually, when fans watch those episodes, the first reactions I tend to see are, "Oh, Reid! Let me wrap him up in a blanket and take care of him!" and comments of that sort :p. So that's the message they're getting instead. 

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What you said about being in his thirties and single, I think everyone forgets that Morgan, Elle, and Prentiss were single for most of the series and in their thirties (if I am not mistaken).  Rossi has spent most of series, single as well, and he deserves better than the his 2nd ex-wife, IMO.  I'd rather him be single than with her, but this is Reid's thread.  

Also a good point. 

And I believe we've talked on here before that I think the show purposefully likes to keep Reid single because a) some fans who have a crush on him might get weirdly jealous about him being a relationship (I don't think that's a big portion of Reid fans, mind, but I don't doubt they exist), and b) if he did get into a relationship, there'd be disagreement among some fans over whether or not they were "right" for him. He and Hotch seem to have the most particularly vocal fans whenever they have any sort of romantic interest, for some reason, so I wouldn't blame the writers for being wary about stepping into that messy situation too much. 

Quote

 

I think sometimes I forget that the story isn't over, as long as they don't go down the Serial Killer route, he has a chance at a happy ending.  Maybe I need to remember that when I think about the series.  

"If you want a happy ending, it depends on where you stop the story" -Orson Welles.  

 

I like that quote :D. Well said. That's the biggest reason I want the show to know ahead of time whenever their final season will be. Not only does the show deserve a proper sendoff after doing so well for CBS for so many years, but I want the show to be able to know ahead of time when the end comes, so that they can focus on properly wrapping everything up for the characters themselves, and letting them have a good final note of some kind to end on. 

[JenJenBosco]

2 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Thanks :). I will say, though, that I do think, for many Reid fans, those sorts of episodes aren't their favorites specifically because he's in danger, or because they actually enjoy seeing him tortured and in pain. That may be the case for some fans, but I think for most, it's more that they like those episodes because it's a good opportunity to let us see how Reid uses his brain and cleverness to outwit whomever's putting him in danger. or see him showing that remarkable and wonderfully deep empathy of his in an attempt to connect with the unsub(s) in question. Those are certainly some of the main things I love about "Revelations", for instance. I just don't know that most writers really catch on to that fact right away, because usually, when fans watch those episodes, the first reactions I tend to see are, "Oh, Reid! Let me wrap him up in a blanket and take care of him!" and comments of that sort :p. So that's the message they're getting instead. 

Also a good point. 

And I believe we've talked on here before that I think the show purposefully likes to keep Reid single because a) some fans who have a crush on him might get weirdly jealous about him being a relationship (I don't think that's a big portion of Reid fans, mind, but I don't doubt they exist), and b) if he did get into a relationship, there'd be disagreement among some fans over whether or not they were "right" for him. He and Hotch seem to have the most particularly vocal fans whenever they have any sort of romantic interest, for some reason, so I wouldn't blame the writers for being wary about stepping into that messy situation too much. 

I like that quote :D. Well said. That's the biggest reason I want the show to know ahead of time whenever their final season will be. Not only does the show deserve a proper sendoff after doing so well for CBS for so many years, but I want the show to be able to know ahead of time when the end comes, so that they can focus on properly wrapping everything up for the characters themselves, and letting them have a good final note of some kind to end on. 

I agree, I don't like seeing him in pain, but I do love seeing the way his brain works to get him out of those situations.  Also, I definitely feel like your quote above "Oh Reid!..." whenever I see him in pain.  

Your reasons for the writers wanting to keep him single are interesting.  I never considered those being why they don't rush to give him a love interest.  That makes a lot of sense now.  If I recall correctly, the only reason Morgan was given one was due to Shemar.  

I definitely feel like that's a reason I am so antsy about his happiness.  I'm worried the show will be canceled before they get the chance to give him (and everyone else) a good final note.  If he has happiness in the middle then if it ends before they tie up loose ends, then...he won't get a proper sendoff.  

[mefein]

9 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

 

And I believe we've talked on here before that I think the show purposefully likes to keep Reid single because a) some fans who have a crush on him might get weirdly jealous about him being a relationship (I don't think that's a big portion of Reid fans, mind, but I don't doubt they exist), and b) if he did get into a relationship, there'd be disagreement among some fans over whether or not they were "right" for him. He and Hotch seem to have the most particularly vocal fans whenever they have any sort of romantic interest, for some reason, so I wouldn't blame the writers for being wary about stepping into that messy situation too much. 

 

This is so true.  I dont much follow fan sites or social media sites as much as I did in the early days, but have witnessed alot of what you describe.  I've seen for myself some crazy crazy stuff written about MGG's actual girlfriend, disturbing stuff and I think that former partners suffered much the same fate. It would be bad enough if these comments were directed at a fictional character, but the fact that real people are being targeted, is just insane. And just try calling out some of these people or explaining to them how wrong they are to say these things....whoah.

 I'm not sure what the reaction was to Maeve as I was not really following it on sm. 

In the early days Thomas was very active on twitter, but oh my, did he get some crazy crazy stuff.  Most of it from my recollection came from 'shippers'.  There was a very loud and very rude group who were determined that Hotch and Prentiss would become a couple.  Despite Thomas in particular saying why this would not be happening and giving pretty sensibile explanations as to why not, they persisted.  It was not helped when Erica and on occasion Paget when asked, would say things that would seem to suggest it was a possibilty - cue hysteria. But as with Matthews private life, this hassle was not confined to simply the characters.  There was a number of tweeters who went so far as to suggest that they would have TG's wife killed so he could get together with Paget and Paget could adopt his children!!.  If I remember correctly, Paget and her husband got some similar nastiness when they got married. Needless to say that this was reported but even then this craziness did not let up.

Then when Hotch got together with Beth, same again.  Bellamy Young was harrassed continually from so called 'shippers', (totally nothing to do with Paget).  I think all of this was a big part of Thomas deleting his twitter some years ago.  

I tend to use twitter now for business purposes mainly, but still converse sometimes with friends I made when I was much more dedicated to CM.  I recognise many of the accounts which sent crap to Paget after Thomas left the show.  When she left, they attacked her for leaving because it meant that there would never be a Hotch/Prentiss 'ship'.  When the character of Prentiss took on UC, same thing and in more recent times, I have seen commentary to both Thomas and Paget strongly suggesting they should get together now that Thomas is divorced. Ludicrous and more than a little disturbing.

I wonder if CM would ever do an episode where the UNsub/unsubs were a group of rabid shippers...!

[normasm]

1 hour ago, JenJenBosco said:

I think is what it is.  He's introverted and likes to be alone, but now, he's been alone for so long that he doesn't want it anymore.  And yes, he has other friends, but all of them have their own lives, he's always on the outside observing, and I think he's reached the point where it's too much.

Including FA's post about solitude (ref), I do think that as long as Spencer had his mom as a touchstone, he felt loved and validated. Now that she is fading, and he almost lost her due to his job (I think that's the way he sees it), he's, well, bereft. 

[JenJenBosco]

@mefein

I didn't realize the shippers were that crazy on this show since it's premise doesn't lead to a lot of romance.  However, I can see what you're saying about the writers not wanting to deal with it.  By keeping him single they can avoid it.  

@normasm

I agree.  I think he was fine when he felt that he had his mom for the most part, but in later seasons, he might have felt he was losing her, and the job could be part of the reason for that, and that's why he feels differently about the solitude now.

[normasm]

JenJen, I think his whole world when he was a teenager was all about losing his mom, and to a disease he thought he would inherit. Once he finally dodged that bullet in his mind (long after the odds played out for him to develop schizophrenia), he started looking at life a bit differently. When he fell for Maeve, he actually also fell for the concept of having a family, wife, kids, the whole magilla. I think he still pined for that blissful option until he went to prison and ruined his self-image. Now, he lives with overwhelming shame and guilt, and his only touchstone (whom he nearly sacrificed everything for), is fading fast. He's un-moored. Adrift. Bereft.

[mefein]

@JenJenBosco  Oh for sure.  Like I said, I'm not as up to date on the goings on now, but that was certainly the case back then.  Look at the crazies who claimed to be fans of AJ, that would post awful stuff, I mean really awful stuff to JLH and vice versa.  Honestly, these folks should be traced and given a through pysch evaluation.  Scary stuff.

[JenJenBosco]

Normasm, I think that makes sense.  I definitely agree that he's a little a lost and adrift after he accepted that he would no longer inherit the disease, and maybe that's the issue.  He's losing his mother, and she's been his whole life focus since he was ten.  She is his life, and losing her, is making him lost in a way.

[Annber03]

@mefein: Yeah, I've heard about some of the crazy stuff that's happened on Twitter. I'm not on there, myself, but I've read people's comments on some of the things they've seen and it sounds...scary. When somebody's actually suggesting an actor's significant other be killed so that they can date a cast member, that's when I'm thinking they shouldn't be allowed access to the internet for a good, long while, if ever (or at the very least, they should be heavily supervised). That's just beyond messed up and disturbing. I don't blame any actors who distance themselves online after that. 

I certainly do remember seeing some of the shipping stuff with the characters themselves that you mention on the TV Line comment sections, though, yes. I'm so very glad that's died down (or if it's still happening, it's somewhere where I don't have to encounter it). I've got my favorite pairings within the team, yes, and if the show ever were to make any of them canon, then hey, cool, i won't complain :p. But I think the show was ultimately smart to not put any of the team members together precisely because of all that shipping war nonsense. Some group or other of fans would always inevitably feel left out or start harassing fans of the canon pairing and it'd just become a big ol' unpleasant mess. 

Re: the response to Maeve, I really started getting into this during the original run of season 8, so I seem to recall seeing a few comments about her on TV Line-there wasn't hatred, certainly not on the level you note with Beth, but I remember some were wary and unsure of where they'd go with her character, especially given how mysterious she was. I think some of them thought she might be the Replicator, or tied to him. I think, luckily, she's one of very few love interests that's escaped full on hatred and harassment from fans-people either liked her (and I'm in that camp), or they were indifferent to her/found it hard to really invest in her given how briefly she appeared. And that's about it. If there was any nastiness sent at the character or the actress herself, I didn't hear about it.

1 hour ago, mefein said:

I wonder if CM would ever do an episode where the UNsub/unsubs were a group of rabid shippers...!

Ha, that would be fun :D. I'd kinda like to see what they could do with that. Get all 'Misery'-style on us.

Back to the main topic of Reid specifically...

43 minutes ago, normasm said:

JenJen, I think his whole world when he was a teenager was all about losing his mom, and to a disease he thought he would inherit. Once he finally dodged that bullet in his mind (long after the odds played out for him to develop schizophrenia), he started looking at life a bit differently. When he fell for Maeve, he actually also fell for the concept of having a family, wife, kids, the whole magilla. I think he still pined for that blissful option until he went to prison and ruined his self-image. Now, he lives with overwhelming shame and guilt, and his only touchstone (whom he nearly sacrificed everything for), is fading fast. He's un-moored. Adrift. Bereft.

I think this is a spot on assessment, but now I'm going to echo the "I want to give Reid a hug!" sentiment from my earlier post above, because this just breaks my heart so much :(!

[JenJenBosco]

3 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I think this is a spot on assessment, but now I'm going to echo the "I want to give Reid a hug!" sentiment from my earlier post above, because this just breaks my heart so much :(!

Lately, I always seem to be feeling like I want to give him a hug...I keep thinking, "Oh Reid, why do these things keep happening to you?" 

[Danielg342]

I said this before about Reid in the prison arc and I'll repeat it here. I'm certain the CM writers have designated Reid as the "delicate" character whose life they can fill with tragedy because it reinforces this delicateness, believing that audiences will bond with Reid because all of his horrors cause audiences to sympathize with him and perhaps cry with him.

In the past- right up to the 1990s- this character was usually played by a woman, since audiences tended to sympathize easier with a woman than a man on the basis that women tended to be defined by their appearance and personality and men on their actions. By the turn of the millennium audiences started to detest "weak" female characters and asked for stronger female characters, so Hollywood responded by creating female characters who were physically and mentally strong but still maintained their warmth. The JJ that appeared in S7-S10 is a perfect example of this type of character in action.

Unfortunately for Hollywood, male characters still struggled to be effective victims, so Hollywood was in a bind.

Which is where Reid comes in.

Even though Reid is a male, his character filled many of the same traits as those stereotypical "vulnerable" female characters of old, which made him the "perfect" victim. To wit:

• Reid is emotional and is well known for his emotions.
• Reid is tall and lanky, so he's not physically imposing.
• Although I think Matthew Gray Gubler can very easily display menace and strength in his voice, Reid's voice is typically high-pitched.
• Reid is not known for his actions- i.e., those that require physical strength- but for his mind.
• Reid's face is normally shaved and he even has long, usually treated hair.
• The other characters tend to view him as vulnerable and in need of protection.

So, for the CM writers looking to have a character for whom they can pile on the tragedy, Reid is perfect. He's got all the traits that make audiences instantly sympathetic towards him, so they'll cry when he does after he gets physically or emotionally pummelled for the umpteenth time, and, since he's a man, Hollywood doesn't have to deal with all those outcries that they're "exploiting women for their vulnerabilities" because Reid is not a woman.

Ergo, "we can beat him up as many times as we want!"

Now, I probably don't have to waste too much of my breath stating how sickeningly disgusting this is. It should be evident that "victimization for the sake of victimization" is wrong no matter what gender it is directed at, and having a character who is constantly being beaten up is just lazy, boring storytelling.

So many of you seem to realize this when you ask, "when is Reid going to be happy?"

Well, the cynic in me says "never" because Reid being a victim is too good for these writers to pass up. Nauseatingly.

It's here where I'll write about the flaws in this line of thinking for Reid, because- like many aspects of CM writing these days- the parts that make these characterizations compelling are completely absent.

First, it should be noted that when audiences wanted "strong female characters", they didn't want ninja JJ who could beat all comers without so much as a scar or even a whimper. No, the request was to have female characters who were simply more proactive in their stories, in that if we see them suffer, we want to see how they overcame their struggle. Or at least try to.

That's what makes a "weak" character compelling. Even if they require help, we're not interested in a simple punching bag. No, a character who tries hard to outsmart their captor or combat the demons that lurk inside their heads is someone we eventually root for, because we can actually connect with their struggle and root that every attempt they take frees them from their bonds.

Only then does the payoff- the euphoria of seeing them escape or the crushing blow that sees them fail- actually deliver.

Think back to "Revelations", which was the first time "Reid in peril" was used (I know, "L.D.S.K." and "Somebody's Watching" saw him being threatened by an UnSub but those were mere corollaries to what was really going on. "Revelations" was the first to actually focus on Reid's victimization).

In this episode, it hit all the notes later CM writers would hit- you've got Reid and his emotions, gasping at every blow and even crying when he realized he forsake his own mother. Reid was also used as a pinata, lashed many times by "Raphael". He was also very helpless in that Tobias Hankel had him tied to the chair and watched his every move, hovering over top of him with malice and menace and basically preventing Reid from thinking he had a physical escape.

Yet, there was Reid, trying his best to match wits with Hankel and perhaps get deep enough inside his head to get the break he needed to unlock an escape.

Then, he eventually found it, intentionally misquoting the Bible and then intentionally mislabelling Hotch as a narcissist as the clue needed to tell the BAU where he was hidden, all while preventing Hankel from knowing he tricked him. Of course, Reid had a bit of luck in that Hankel's revolver was dangling from his pocket allowing Reid to easily take it and shoot him dead, but by that point the payoff in the episode was already delivered so it needed a speedy resolution.

Now, go back to "Zugzwang" and see where all this didn't happen.

We had a similar situation, only that instead of Reid himself being in peril it's his girlfriend, Maeve Donovan. For almost the entire episode, instead of seeing Reid- or Maeve for that matter- doing anything at all to assist in resolving their situations, we pretty much had Reid and Maeve off to the sidelines while the team did all the heavy lifting.

Sure, Reid provided the clue that led them to the realization that Maeve's stalker was a woman, but it was hardly much of a contribution in the grand scheme of things.

Then, of course, there was that final scene where the SWAT team had Maeve's captor surrounded and Reid went in, dramatically. In what was supposed to be a match of wits, Reid essentially caved to every demand the UnSub made of him without barely a response, and even that one time Reid tried to outsmart the UnSub- by declaring his non-love for Maeve- it backfired.

Which then led to the awful conclusion we all know about.

Could it have worked if it was plotted differently? It probably could have, and suspect zero in this case is the "spectator-ness" of both Reid and Maeve. If Reid was seen taking action and doing everything he could to save Maeve, perhaps his failure to save her would have resonated more. Perhaps more to the point, if we were privy to Reid's thoughts and saw him imagining the relationship he believed he was losing- for example, seeing Reid and Maeve on a date in a dream, laughing and enjoying each other's company and maybe even, uh, you know- it may have made the pain of the actual loss mean more because we actually saw what the relationship meant to Reid, instead of just being told about it.

Instead, all we had was Reid and Maeve doing nothing with the CM writers simply exploiting our desires to see Reid in an actual relationship only for them to pull out the rug from underneath us at the last minute.

Which is ultimately why it failed.

It's also why the writers have ultimately failed to really write compelling stories for Reid because they fail to understand- like they do in everything- the nuances that would make their characterization work.

Fine, if Reid's going to be a tragic story there's really no problem with that.

What is a problem is if the writers think all that's needed is just repeatedly beating Reid down and not having Reid deal with all those problems in a meaningful way. If we're going to root for his struggles, we need to see times of strength and times where seems to overcome his pains and tribulations.

Even if his happiness is fleeting, it should still show up every now and then.

That's where the writers have failed Doctor Spencer Reid.