Past Seasons Talk: A is Everywhere

[SparedTurkey]

I loved the pilot. I remembered reading the books - and knowing that Piper from Charmed was on it and watching. Then I got sucked in to the pure awesome ridiculousness - 4 girls dressed to the freaking nines walking in woods looking for clues and a stalker that actually cut down an ENTIRE tree to remove a clue that could have been easily sanded down/cut out/anything other than that extravagance.

The books turned ridiculous but the show was amazingly awesome....and then Ian of the milk drinking died and then season two happened (will always love the fs2 finale) and MonA (which they didn't back out of)....and now we are left with a completely ridiculous and transphobic non-sensical answer (despite what IMK claims the criticisms are) AND a seemingly neutered Ali AND every single appropriate love interest for the girls are now creepy, disgusting, Red coat or Toby. (I love Caleb. Calab can stay. Who thought Ravenswood would have paid off???).

 

Until Ezra was walked back, I thought the show could maintain it's premise. Then Ali came back. Then EzrA was exonerated but not enough and is massively creepy and Aria and the liars still accept it. Then Ali become a church-going-slut-shamed-i-cant-do-better-than-a-25-year-old-Rosewood-cop. Then this.

 

Seasons 1 - 3b seems to maintain watchability. the 6A finale - I wish had not yet happened.

 

I know the show wouldn't have gone there - but A should have been Aria. Or Dr Monica Reyes.

[cuddlingcrowley]

I'm at 1x04 in my rewatch and, boy, I didn't remember how done with Alison Hanna has been since the beginning! She seems by far the least sad by her "death", at this point at least,  and she seems to be forever rolling her eyes whenever Ali gets mentioned by the other girls. It's probably because Hanna believes she isnI't really dead but I don't think I really buy it's all that especially considering what we know.

 

Also, Jenna is ten thousand kinds of creepy!! When you realize she believed Garret killed Alison this whole time, knew the girls were involved in blinding AND is worried they know she raped Toby and will reveal that secret, her character goes to this whole new level. No wonder she's so intense! 

 

Another one who got a lot creepier is Wilden. Finding a scapegoat for Ali's murder in order to keep the fact that he was paid off to lie about Charlotte's presence at the Dilaurenti's yard being the reason behind his obsession (the word seems fitting) with finding what the girls know about "the night of a thousand yellow tops" and working to pin the murder on them works, imo.

Edited August 15, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[dwmckim]

I'm also doing a complete-seasons rewatch and have a lot of the same reactions.

 

Two of my all time Unintentionally Hilarious moments come from the first batch of episodes:

 

From the opening of season two, when the girls are in the restaurant talking about the funeral and Jenna comes in.  The girls quickly make their way out of the building and the scene ends with an external shot of the PLLs exiting.  But what i've always found hilarious is Jenna's just sitting alone at the counter crossing her arms...from the moment she walked in and made her way to the bar counter, not a single staff member had come up to wait on or even acknowledge the obviously blind customer.  And she just seems to be silently waiting...and waiting...and fuming.

 

End of about the fourth or fifth episode in where the girls realize A may have been in Spencer's room and collectively gasp at a message written in lipstick on her mirror.  They all just stand there mouths open for what seems like forever and then the first one to break the silence is Hanna with "Is that jungle red?" to which someone else answers "Alison's color".  But until that follow-up line happens, it just seems like Hanna's just asking the most inappropriate self-absorbed non-sequitur and it always makes me laugh.

[cuddlingcrowley]

That's 1x04, I'm there as well, dwmckim! It's also the episode the A messages escalate from just texts to full on "pranks" which was an interesting thing to note. Aria also has this great flashback with Alison telling her to tell Ella the truth or "someone else will". Later on in the series we learn, through Ali's diary, that she told this to Aria because she didn't think Aria would "have the courage to stand up to him, that's why I picked her."

 

But now that we know Alison was being stalked and her advice actually ends being good advice because someone does end up telling the secret and, for a while, Aria loses both Ella and Byron. And the person who tells is Ali's stalker herself! So, I'm thinking there's another layer to Alison's advice, possibly the non-horrible part of her talking.

My unintentionally hilarious moment was in episode 2 or 3 when Mrs. Fields invites Maya to stay over. That's the start of a puzzling and bewildering traditio.

Edited August 16, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[dwmckim]

Another moment in that episode that makes me laugh - the shot of the PLLs finding the bracelet - every time i watch it, i think "Simon Says take one step forward." 

[cuddlingcrowley]

1x05 - Spencer starts this episode by being such a baby. How can she be shocked her Dad doesn't want her to humiliate the client he's hoping woo?

 

Toby and Emily are the absolute sweetest together! They have no so much sexual chemistry, but this great natural chemistry. It's amazing because they're two of the weakest actors of the bunch but they really elevate each other on these first few episodes. It makes me wonder if they would have worked better as a couple than Spoby, if Emily was to be straight, that is. They remind me of those quiet, sweet, drama-free couples who tend to go the distance.

 

1x06 - I wanna go to this homecoming dance!! Even the extras look like they're having a blast. Where were they on 6x10? Those extras looked dead on their feet.

 

First mention of Aria's claustrophobia. 

 

Priceless moment: Gipsy from Gilmore girls reading Spencer's fortune and asking Spencer whether she's a worrier. Spencer is too busy worrying to answer. This one never gets old!

 

At the risk of being disowned by you guys, Ezra and Maya aren't annoying me yet. I remember back when I first watched the show I was pretty much done with both of them by now. But this time around, given I know I'll have to put up with them for a while I decided to give everyone a chance to make a new impression on me and/or just have fun with the bad stuff. Not work myself up with it. I'll confess watching the Ezria scenes from Ezra's pov, knowing he approached Aria to write a book about Ali, makes everything ten times better. It gives a much need edge to their ultra sacharine relationship. 

 

Also, detective Hanna!

Edited August 15, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[dwmckim]

In those early episodes, i really liked Toby's character.  It was clear that Keegan was one of the weakest links in the cast as far as acting ability, but i much prefered the way his character was portrayed then - both Keegan's characterization and the show's concept of him.  Once he started becoming a love interest for Spencer, the show turned him into sex symbol, changing the way they did his hair and makeup (no more of the hollowed-eyes look) and likewise Keegan's overall characterization changed and he hasn't been as interesting since...which is a shame because on paper, he should have a lot of potential in regards to stories and relationships.

[jjjmoss]

Well in the books the only role he has is an early A red herring.

After he fulfilled that requirement, I guess the writers decided they liked the character/actor and the main way to keep a guy around constantly on this show is to make him a True Love boyfriend.

[cuddlingcrowley]

the show turned him into sex symbol, changing the way they did his hair and makeup (no more of the hollowed-eyes look) and likewise Keegan's overall characterization changed and he hasn't been as interesting since

 

 

Ironically, I think there was something sort of beautiful about Toby 1.0 with the mop of hair and the hauting eyes. I think the overall look really helped Keegan feel like Toby. After they took that way he became this generic character.

 

1x08 - the place I knew would be problematic arrived sooner than I had anticipated. This the memorial episode in which we got the hotness that was Jason 1.0 who gives the girls Alison's Jenna thing Bracelet which he claims was found in her body. Which we know was actually Bethany's body. Anyone got an answer about how that could have gone down? I get Bethany wearing the same clothes as Alison because Mrs. D would have clothes for Ali and Cece but how come she had a copy of Alison's bracelet as well?

 

(why yes, I spent the better part of my saturday doing a pll marathon)

 

Given Ali leaving her bracelet on the Lost Woods Resort with Mona was highlighted and we know Mona would be making copies of the original one  she left for the girls to find in the woods(and try to pin it on Spencer) than I'm thinking that suggests that she had to have gotten one of the copies onto Bethany's body or passed it off to someone else who did before the body was found. That implies Mona was in on the cover up.

Edited August 16, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[mercfan3]

We see that Ali left her bracelet with Mona, so I wonder if Mona put it on Bethany. (Being that she's the one that killed her..) 

[cuddlingcrowley]

We see that Ali left her bracelet with Mona, so I wonder if Mona put it on Bethany. (Being that she's the one that killed her..)

 

 

That would be simplest answer. Unfortunately, it doesn't work with the timeline because Ali left the bracelet with Mona in the next morning. By then, Mona would have already hit Bethany and Melissa would already have buried her.

[SparedTurkey]

Plus, Mona just found out she killed Bethany in the finale, but had thought it was Alison til then....so I really don't know if/how that works. Although knowing this show - it probably did.

[cuddlingcrowley]

Plus, Mona just found out she killed Bethany in the finale, but had thought it was Alison til then....so I really don't know if/how that works. Although knowing this show - it probably did.

 

 

Did she though? I found that scene really ambiguous and my first thought was that she got emmotional not because of the realization but because she was finally coming clean with the girls about it (about being the one who tried to kill Alison and have contributed to killing someone else). I find it really unlikely that once a body was found in the pilot which at the time was identified as Alison's, Mona didn't have herself a "Oh, shit!" moment given it should not have there been a body at all from her pov. 

Edited August 16, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[mercfan3]

It's Mona, she could have dug up the body at anytime..and anyway, that's a really small problem with the timeline compared to some of the other problems. 

 

But yea, at the very least Mona knew she killed Bethany when they discovered the body was Bethany's. But she knew she didn't kill Ali, so she may not have known it was Bethany, but she knew she killed a blonde girl that wasn't Ali. 

[Perfect Xero]

Ironically, I think there was something sort of beautiful about Toby 1.0 with the mop of hair and the hauting eyes. I think the overall look really helped Keegan feel like Toby. After they took that way he became this generic character.

 

1x08 - the place I knew would be problematic arrived sooner than I had anticipated. This the memorial episode in which we got the hotness that was Jason 1.0

 

I just watched this last night. The thing that struck me the most is that they wrote Jason 1.0 a lot more like Alison, taking charge of the memorial, rattling and manipulating Wilden and the Rosewood PD, generally seeming like he was a step ahead of everyone else.

 

There's a scene that I'd completely forgotten about where Jason accusingly tells Spencer that Ali told him all about the Jenna thing, (but had placed the blame entirely on Spencer). Spencer asks him if he believed that, and he just gives her this look that says that he probably doesn't but wanted to see her reaction, and she tells him that he's as bad as Alison. His response, "In some ways, I'm worse." I can't imagine a scene like that playing out with Jason 2.0.

 

They also kind of implied that Jason might be helping Alison fake her death, which would have certainly been a radical departure.

 

who gives the girls Alison's Jenna thing Bracelet which he claims was found in her body. Which we know was actually Bethany's body. Anyone got an answer about how that could have gone down? I get Bethany wearing the same clothes as Alison because Mrs. D would have clothes for Ali and Cece but how come she had a copy of Alison's bracelet as well?

 

 

Maybe, CeCe had a copy with her things (I mean she was obsessed with Alison, and they were supposed to be super close friends that summer) and Bethany took it because she was planning on planting it on Mrs. D's body to frame CeCe (or Alison) for the murder?

[Mabinogia]

Wait, I'm so confused. Didn't Mona help Ali fake her identity and all that, which was when Ali gave Mona tips that changed her from loser Mona with the glasses and kneesocks? When did that happen? Or am I trying to make the show better by making stuff up in my head again? lol I do that. In my head show Toby and Spencer only briefly hooked up before realizing they had little in common and Toby never became a cop because that's just insane. He's a teenager with a criminal record and does he even have a high school diploma? yet, he passes the police requirements and training in a few weeks? The only good thing to come out of the finale was that I have given up any hope of this show ever making any sense at all. (Up till now I had a small glimmer of hope that it would all make sense once we got the big reveal. I will never make that mistake again)

[cuddlingcrowley]

Didn't Mona help Ali fake her identity and all that, which was when Ali gave Mona tips that changed her from loser Mona with the glasses and kneesocks

 

 

Both of those things happened but it's unclear whether they happened at the same time. Ali ran into Mona in Brookhaven (the place A and Ali had set up a meet) where she game Mona the tips.

 

Mona helped/conviced Ali to run away and helped fake her identity after Ali had already been almost murdered on the night of a thousand of yellow tops and Mona saw her wandering about. They hid at the Lost Woods resort together and in the next morning Alison said goodbye, leaving her Alison Jenna Thing bracelet behind. But if I remember correctly Ali also might given Mona some tips here. I'm not sure.

 

My confusion is in regards to who put a copy of Alison's bracelet on Bethany Young's body. We know Ali had her original one with her at least until early the next morning after the night of a thousand yellow tops and Bethany was wearing a copy when she got hit.

 

I personally don't understand how Cece could have had a copy of the bracelet (which Bethany would have stolen) since the bracelet was a thing Alison did for herself and her friends. It's doesn't make sense Mrs. D would have given one to Cece along with a yellow top so that would have been so in order for Cece to have one, she'd have to have it made herself. What for? Sure, Ali was her doll but I didn't get a sense Cece wanted to be Ali, you know? The matching outfits was just a thing Mrs. D. did.

 

I don't know why this is bothering me so much. 

 

I can't believe I forgot to comment 1x08 is the first episode its raised the possibility of Spencer having killed Alison. That's one mystery that only got better with time. We now know Jenna thinks Garret killed Alison so the mindgame she plays on Spencer here is really sick. Spencer, of course, completely falls for the lie that Alison was afraid of Spencer because that's her worst fear being spoken outloud -- that she might have been the one to kill Ali!

 

There's also this great shot of Darren Wilden looking moved by the speeches. I still wish he had been Charles but his behavior fits perfectly with someone who's desperately trying to cover his own ass by pinning the murder on someone that's not Charlotte..

Edited August 17, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[Mabinogia]

Because it makes no sense and is clearly a sign that the writers pulled CeCe is Charles is A is Charlotte didn't have anything to do with Bethany's death out of their asses. Thanks on the Mona intel. So, when Mona saw Ali wondering she must have assumed that the shove to the head she gave "Ali" didn't actually take so she decided to help her get away rather than give her time to figure out it was Mona.

 

Haha, Mons must have lost it then, when "Ali's" body was dug up. Like, hmm, I thought I got away with not killing someone, but oops, guess I did. My bad. lol

 

I know Mona is pretty much bad to the bone, but I do still love her. I love a good baddie on TV, not in real life. In real life I'd want most of Rosewood locked up behind bars. lol

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

Haha, Mons must have lost it then, when "Ali's" body was dug up. Like, hmm, I thought I got away with not killing someone, but oops, guess I did. My bad.

 

I prefer to think Mona said to herself "Huh? So the Alison I gave a ride to and sent in exile must have been a ghost then? I might as well pretend to be that ghost and harass her friends". I mean, it's not like this is any less plausible motivation than "You stole Hanna from me (so I started sending threatening texts even before Hanna had so much as talked to Aria".

Edited August 16, 2015 by Jack Shaftoe

[cuddlingcrowley]

1x09 - Lawd all mighty is my husband Noel Kahn dreamy!

 

I'm forever a sucker for the Emison library scene.

 

Ezria - Ezra royally freaked out in the episode he saw the A text on Aria's phone (that was like 5 minutes after they started to hook up) and things have been really tense since then. I remember their relationship being a lot less dramatic than this. Huh. There's a lot of talk about them being together being wrong both because he's a teacher and because he's an adult and she's a child. Both issues are adressed very clearly on text and Aria and Ezra even get in a couple of fights over them. This episode also underlines another thing that up until this point had only been subtext: that their "relationship" is Aria acting out because of her parents' separation. Ezra's face when he realize this is utterly priceless.

 

One of the great things about rewatching these first few episodes is that Mona is almost always on the background of a scene. You don't get that kind of treatment for any other minor character.

 

Alex and Spencer are more boring than I remember. They have decent chemistry, but the whole class divide thing has been done to death.

 

Iconic scene: Mama Hastings laying the smack down on Wilden never gets old!

[jjjmoss]

Ezria - Ezra royally freaked out in the episode he saw the A text on Aria's phone (that was like 5 minutes after they started to hook up) and things have been really tense since then. 

In the books, that's when they break up and never get back into a relationship, though they hook up like once afterwards.

 

mArlene of course decides that, no, their chemisty is so amazing they need to be OTP, and makes Noel Kahn a more minor character instead.

 

I realized that the only character who dies in both series is Ian; maybe that's why Ian's death is by far the best-done on the show.

Edited August 16, 2015 by jjjmoss

[Perfect Xero]

Both of those things happened but they didn't happen at the same time. Ali ran into Mona in Brookhaven (the place A and Ali had set up a meet) where she game Mona the tips.

 

Mona helped/conviced Ali to run away and helped fake her identity after Ali had already been almost murdered on the night of a thousand of yellow tops and Mona saw her wandering about. They hid at the Lost Woods resort together and in the next morning Alison said goodbye, leaving her Alison Jenna Thing bracelet behind.

 

My confusion is in regards to who put a copy of Alison's bracelet on Bethany Young's body. We know Ali had her original one with her at least until early the next morning after the night of a thousand yellow tops and Bethany was wearing a copy when she got hit.

 

I personally don't understand how Cece could have had a copy of the bracelet (which Bethany would have stolen) since the bracelet was a thing Alison did for herself and her friends. It's doesn't make sense Mrs. D would have given one to Cece along with a yellow top so that would have been so in order for Cece to have one, she'd have to have it made herself. What for? Sure, Ali was her doll but I didn't get a sense Cece wanted to be Ali, you know? The matching outfits was just a thing Mrs. D. did.

 

The Jenna thing and the bracelets happened during the same time period where CeCe had "out privileges" and was hanging out with Alison and Jason all the time. She could have got the bracelet from Ali herself, or even been the one who helped Ali come up with the plan to give her friends friendship bracelets to keep them quiet about the Jenna thing, in the same way that she helped her deal with Paige.

[cuddlingcrowley]

In the books, that's when they break up and never get back into a relationship, though they hook up like once afterwards.

mArlene of course decides that, no, their chemisty is so amazing they need to be OTP, and makes Noel Kahn a more minor character instead.

 

 

From this point on, Ezria is basically Aria and Ezra saying fuck it and agreeing "not to care together". 

 

The Jenna thing and the bracelets happened during the same time period where CeCe had "out privileges" and was hanging out with Alison and Jason all the time. She could have got the bracelet from Ali herself, or even been the one who helped Ali come up with the plan to give her friends friendship bracelets to keep them quiet about the Jenna thing, in the same way that she helped her deal with Paige.

 

 

Ooooh, I like this! We got a probable "when" the bracelet might have been made, at least.

 

 

1x10 - My other husband Ian has arrived!

 

Between Wren, Ian, Noel Kahn and Wilden this was the show's golden age in more ways than one. What happened with the casting department that the quality of the looks of male actors dropped so bad in the later seasons?

 

On another note, how much do I love that the Camp Mona uniform was a: BLACK HOODIE!!! 

 

I love this episode so so much. I think it kicks most of the other finales in the ass and it's just a mid-season finale. The shot of Hanna being hit by the car will never not being incredible. Remember back when this show answered mysteries in a timely fashion? On this episode alone we learn why Toby called Ali on the night she died, what his tattoo means, why did Alison have his sweater on. But also, we learn who's the "older boy" Alison was seeing which also exclaims why she was always so bitchy about Spencer/Ian and that Ian is the one she's talking to in the video and not Toby

 

By this point on the show we've also been answered what was The Jenna thing, what Alison saw in the Cavanaugh's garage, what she had on Jenna and Toby, what was really going on between Jenna and Toby and more. It's also strongly hinted Lucas was the one who ruined the memorial. 

 

I hope against hope we get to learn more about the Noel and Alison alliance and when it started. 

Edited August 16, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[Cranberry]

I loved season one. When Hanna was hit by the car, that was the exact second I realized she was my favorite. That hasn't changed since (although Spencer is a close second).

[cuddlingcrowley]

I loved season one. When Hanna was hit by the car, that was the exact second I realized she was my favorite. That hasn't changed since (although Spencer is a close second).

 

 

Back when I first watched the show, Spencer started as my absolute favorite and somewhere along the way Hanna got neck in neck with her, I don't remember when though. She surpassed Spencer to me after the TobiAs storyline. Sadly, I never looked at Spencer's character the same after that.

 

What's really weirding me out during this rewatch is that Aria hasn't annoyed me yet. By binge-watching the show it's a lot easier to get a sense of her as a person and feel for her given her family, in her words, blows up, and she tries her best to keep it together. My fear is that when I first watched the show I was just out of my teenager years and Aria is such a teenager hence why she annoyed the heck out of me. Now, I'm...farther from my teenage years and find myself thinking: this poor child. Oh god. I'm ready to dislike her again, any day now show. Ready when you are. 

 

I still love Spencer but she isn't as fascinating now that I can see her without rose colored glasses. She's this hot mess who's her own worst enemy and tries as hard as she can not to be. I was always more into her when she was making her mistakes than when she was trying to do better.

Edited August 16, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[Bort]

I loved season one. When Hanna was hit by the car, that was the exact second I realized she was my favorite. That hasn't changed since (although Spencer is a close second).

Hanna started out as my favorite but somewhere in the middle of season 1, Spencer snuck up and became my favorite. Pretty much in the Camp Mona episode when she OCD-remembers some clue, prompting the classic quote from Aria: "You're a freak and I love you," and the scene where she's trying not to lose her shit at seeing Aria and Emily's blowouts.

I would like to rewatch season 1 but I fear its former awesomeness vs. its current state would depress me.

[cuddlingcrowley]

I would like to rewatch season 1 but I fear its former awesomeness vs. its current state would depress me.

 

 

For what's worth, I'm rewatching it and I'm having an absolute blast! Characters like Wilden and Jenna get ten times creepier when you actually know what we know now. Ezria is a lot more tolerable when you keep in mind Ezra approached Aria to write a book about Alison. Melissa and Spencer's relationship makes more sense as well when you consider Melissa believes Spencer killed Alison and has been covering it up.

 

It's helping me see the show hasn't been that bad at answering questions. But, yeah,I'm afraid of when I start noticing the inevitable quality drop. Although, things are always smoother when you binge watch a show than when you're watching it weekly. I'm hoping that by the time I reach the end again my faith in it gets renewed.

Edited August 16, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

Pretty much in the Camp Mona episode when she OCD-remembers some clue, prompting the classic quote from Aria: "You're a freak and I love you,"

 

I love that quote.

 

Prompted by this thread I rewatched some scenes from 1.10 and was struck by how great the cinematography was and how much less glamorous Emily looked, compared to the current Emily. Still gorgeous, of course, but a much more fitting look for the character, IMO.

 

 

I realized that the only character who dies in both series is Ian; maybe that's why Ian's death is by far the best-done on the show.

 

That's if you ignore Marlene's interviews and assume he died in the bell tower, rather than survive and kill himself later for no reason.

[Cranberry]

I find it's best to ignore Marlene in general and go by what's shown on screen. With some shows I consider Word of God to be canon, but not with this one. PLL's showrunner falls under a different category...

[mercfan3]

That would be correct. 

 

I always look at Marlene as her answers are telling us what we should know now. 

[dwmckim]

Wait, I'm so confused. Didn't Mona help Ali fake her identity and all that,

We're all confused, dear.  Just breathe deep, enjoy your favorite (pot-free) cookies and we'll hold hands and all get through this show and it's "dream logic" together.

 

Hanna started out as my favorite but somewhere in the middle of season 1, Spencer snuck up and became my favorite. Pretty much in the Camp Mona episode when she OCD-remembers some clue, prompting the classic quote from Aria: "You're a freak and I love you," and the scene where she's trying not to lose her shit at seeing Aria and Emily's blowouts.

 

I loved Spencer before but that episode solidified it for me if for no other reason than her reaction is PRECISELY the same thing i would have done if i was there - the exact wording/delivery and everything!!  "What happens if you toooouch it...?

[cuddlingcrowley]

1x11 - To quote tumblr, Noel is such a cinnamon roll. From his pov, Aria seems to be acting insane but dude has been so great with her. And in this episode, he simply has the best reaction ever to seeing her and Ezra making out. He offers to go with her to the principal so they can send Ezra to jail. Oh hon!

 

On the other hand, Lucas did a great job of reminded me why I loathed him for the longest time. Thank you, Lucas! It's almost enough for me not feel bad about Mona's bullying.

 

Speaking of Mona, it was so obvious she was the one who hit Hanna wasn't it? I remember getting it right even back then and was so frustratred with the Noel thing. The guy just wanted to visit Hanna! Geez!

 

One of my favorite A-messages happens on this episode: Sorry for losing my temper. My Bad. Love, A on Hanna's cast. It's always gives me a tingle. It's so intimate and creepy. Like an abusive lover. Like fucking Mona.

 

Alison is so sweet to Hanna. I found a good explanation for some of the things she might be hitting to. The line about telling the truth to the wrong person at the wrong time was obviously about Mona. I also think the one about the truth being complicated might be in relation to Ali knowing her own mother buried her. The one about the girls knowing what really happened that night and that the liars remember more than they think that's when it gets tricky. But that just might be something Alison herself believed and not a fact. I'm going to sleep on that and see how I feel about it tomorrow.

 

Also first time the possibility of A and Ali's killer being different people was raised. But since when did these girls thought A was Ali's killer? If so than they have been awfully calm.

 

Iconic moment: A+ for the most realistic reaction from parents to a gay kid with mama and papa fields.

Edited August 17, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[jjjmoss]

Iconic moment: A+ for the most realistic reaction from parents to a gay kid with mama and papa fields.

Okay, that's one thing that the show is way better at than the books, which involves a reform program and being shipped off to another state.

[cuddlingcrowley]

1x12 - This is the episode in which we get the flashback with Ali breaking up Noel and some girl. And we get Noel blackmailing Ezra drawing an A on his paper. I'd love to believe the Ali/Noel alliance was in the background; Noel would have told Ali about Ezra and Ali, in turn, would have told him of her suspicious Ezra might be A and given Noel the idea to blackmail him. Now, can anyone confirm to me Ali feared Ezra at some point? Could the timeline work?

 

1x13 - So why were Melissa and Ian in such a hurry to get married and have babies? The show painted it as the shadiest thing ever. Since we never got a straight answer about this (I don't think...I'm the absolute worst at remembering stuff about this show, for some reason), I headcanon Melissa and Ian were to have the most wholesome image ever to make it really hard to suspect their involvement with Alison's murder (actually Bethany's) and if they were ever suspected, to make it really hard to condemn to jail the parents of a bunch kids. I also think the wanting to have kids thing has something to do with Ian's affair with Alison. If it was ever revealled, a pregnant Melissa would be "proof" he's not some pervert and actually likes grown women, so why would he go for Alison? That revelation happens in these two episodes so I think the show was definitely hitting those things were connected.

Edited August 19, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[cuddlingcrowley]

1x14 - ALONA TAL!! I had forgotten she was in one of the season 1 episodes! I also had forgotten how MonA had the girls do crazy stuff like Hanna dancing with Lucas. That was so great. MonA was the best A! Hands down! This is such a classic episode full of great moments so I'll just mention two lines that had me laughing out loud:

 

Hanna [about Emily]: If her mom finds out it was my flask, I'm gonna be feeding the bears with Maya.

 

And:

 

Aria: If you want, you should just leave with Simone. Take her home to new york. Well, why wouldn't you? She's beautiful, and she's smart and funny.

 

Ezra: I met her yesterday.

 

The writers can't get enough of trolling Ezria in s1. It's episode 14 and we haven't had one episode where they aren't reminded why they're wrong together.

 

I can't list all of my favorite things about this episode: drunk!Emily; crazy!jealous!Aria; gray!hanna; the tension as Ian and Spencer dance together.

Edited August 20, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[jjjmoss]

We've gotten a few super-tiny glimpses of Jenna/Mona - in important eps The First Secret and Miss Me x100, but I wish we would get to see more of that possible secret friendship. I can see there being a lot of interesting chemistry there, as two super-smart, super-shady ladies with reasons to resent Ali. 

 

Like, I wonder if they were legit friends in sophomore year as we don't know much about them at that time. 

[cuddlingcrowley]

We've gotten a few super-tiny glimpses of Jenna/Mona - in important eps The First Secret and Miss Me x100, but I wish we would get to see more of that possible secret friendship. I can see there being a lot of interesting chemistry there, as two super-smart, super-shady ladies with reasons to resent Ali.

Like, I wonder if they were legit friends in sophomore year as we don't know much about them at that time.

 

 

Same here! I'd like to think they're legit friends, though. Jenna was friends with Wilden, I'm sure she's Mona's friend. We know Mona and Lucas were in cahoots. And Lucas went to prom with Jenna! Maybe Mona set them up!

 

I wanna see more of them desperately and not terrible new minor characters.

[dwmckim]

We've gotten a few super-tiny glimpses of Jenna/Mona - in important eps The First Secret and Miss Me x100, but I wish we would get to see more of that possible secret friendship. I can see there being a lot of interesting chemistry there, as two super-smart, super-shady ladies with reasons to resent Ali. 

 

Like, I wonder if they were legit friends in sophomore year as we don't know much about them at that time. 

Plus there was the whole Jenna/Garrett reveal at the end of the season 2A premiere that they were in on framing the PLLs for Therapy Anne's "murder" so they either had to be part of Mona's "A" Team or at least knew enough about it to piggyback off of it.  This has never been followed up on on the show though.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Did they ever explain who took all stuff from MonA's lair right after the season 2 finale? If Cece is to be believed she only started "the game" match later. Are we supposed to think it was Toby or Lucas?

 

 

Iconic moment: A+ for the most realistic reaction from parents to a gay kid with mama and papa fields.

 

I remember how I dreaded Mr. Fields return because I was sure he would be some religious fanatic or at least a homophobic asshole. And then he came and soon uttered one of my favourite lines in the whole show: "She's alive! And healthy! And after everything I have seen alive and healthy counts for a lot, believe me!" (after Pam was nagging him about him losing his values in the desert).

 

Didn't Mona dislike Jenna for stealing Noel Kahn from her in season 2? Or she was faking that too?

Edited August 20, 2015 by Jack Shaftoe

[krimimimi]

Did they ever explain who took all stuff from MonA's lair right after the season 2 finale? If Cece is to be believed she only started "the game" match later. Are we supposed to think it was Toby or Lucas?

Thank you, because that (somewhat irrationally, in light of all the other plot holes) has been bugging me no end. Not sure why, but that just leapt out and bit me during that steaming mess of a finale, and I hadn't calmed down enough to ask here who else it could have been. (It also took me this long to read all the posts. You guys are seriously prolific.)

The sad thing is that this and several other inconsistencies were writen in either this last episode or this half season. That's just sloppy. Shame! All they had to do here is change when (and why) CeCe was out and about and took over / piggy backed on the game.

But to tackle the question, if it was Toby, they've got even more serious problems with what we're being shown/told about him, and Spoby as a unit. Much as I dislike the relationship, character (vastly preferred Toby 1.0) and actor, I really think that would be a mess too far. It's been hard enough to enjoy Spencer post sex!giveness, and I'd hate to lose what little respect I can still scrape up for the character.

If it was Lucas, though, I'd have expected him to put that information to use back when TobiAs was trying to run him down with a truck, and he was generally being tortured after Mona's admission to Radley.

Shanna / Jenna would have used it, too. Or at least threatened the girls. Kind of like Ali's "threaten everyone and their brother" on the night of 1000 yellow tops, to make sure she got to A. (If she were smarter, she'd have threatened successively, over the course of days, as opposed to within the span of a few hours, to try to narrow down who A was, but I guess she felt the time crunch of the death threat...)

I guess Melissa would vaguely work for me as a solution. Was she even in the country at the time? Or Wren, who could have gotten the tip thanks to access to Mona, and he destroys the material out of affection/loyalty to Melissa and/or Spence?

Who else is left? We need someone who wouldn't use the info against the Liars and others compromised therein, or maybe who did, and whose actions we have seen on screen. (Things attributed to A, but that we now understand St. CeCe would never have done, heaven forfend.) Or we need someone who would just torch the lot of it, so as to protect some of the people involved, but isn't close enough to the Liars to want to allay their fears about where it ended up (which Toby should have wanted to do), or, more probable, unaware that they knew about the material's existence, which is why it never got mentioned.

Actually, that'd work. Wren processes Mona during her intake at Radley. She mutters incoherently about her Lair and the Last Resort. He gets on the horn to Melissa, who Hastings away and, as is their want, torches everything she can get her hands on. And because she and Spence never ever talk unless obliquely, she has no idea Spence even knew about the Lair, and Melissa opts to avoid freaking Spencer out by not mentioning it existed. Whaddaya think?

As to Mona and Jenna and especially the cinnamon roll NoelKahn, they are sadly so thinly defined, that it's really hard to say what they did when and why. Pity, because they are interesting characters. With the info we've been given, it could have just as easily been a performance piece, cataclysmic break up, or all part of an uber sneaky plan. Who knows?

Edited August 20, 2015 by krimimimi

[mercfan3]

I thought it was already confirmed that it was Toby?

[cuddlingcrowley]

1x15x16x17 - we have the introduction of the love interests in bulk.

 

Paige - mother of God is the start of Paily cheesy! I remember it being better. The one actually good thing about this storyline was Mama Fields sticking up for Emily. I teared up a little. But the kiss came out of nowhere, Emily looked horrified.

 

Caleb - his first couple of episodes are exactly like I remember and he annoyed me much the same way, but after Aria and Hanna find him at the school Caleb becomes less obnouxious and I even enjoyed how proactive he was about Leeland. It's the start of the amazing Caleb/Hanna/Ashley team. I remember being completely indiferent to his character back when I first watched these episodes so hopefully I'll grow to appreciate him more.

 

Toby - it's so sad how Toby was such a interesting character in season 1! He's by far the best future love interest at this point and the begining of Spoby is soooo good. I would rather he'd been a temporary love interest so the writers would have managed to make the relationship short but sweet. And not what will end up becoming.

 

Ezra - okay, not new love interest, but I remain terribly amused by Aria and him. The first time I watched this show they were way past dead and buried as far as how much I cared to watch them on my screen, but now, I hate to say it, Ezria is almost reaching guilty pleasure status for me. Everyone should rewatch the show and put on some "fuck it" goggles when it comes to it. Y'all will be surprised how funny it is. At times it seems almost like a parody of a hot teacher/student affair because they simply can't catch a break and the writers explore every single possible awkward scenario that may come from it.

Edited August 20, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[krimimimi]

I thought it was already confirmed that it was Toby?

Seriously?!?

In show, or in what passes for the extended experience these days, the blithering, lying, cba to keep up with their own deets show runners' interviews? (Nope, not bitter at all. Why do you ask?) Hope against hope, not onscreen. Because that makes Toby the ultimate toad, and Spencer a complete doormat. Do not like one iota.

Also, bags of stupid. So CeCe talks to Mona for 30 seconds, because this has to happen this night, and cottons on to Toby, who had not previously worked for Mona, or had he? I had this impression that he only started working for A for the new A? Originally to "help Spencer," but later to get infos on his mom. But at this point, it should have been all about Spence, and if it were true, then he single-handedly gave A everything she needed to torment the girls, especially given the RV later on. But I have to cough to not closely following almost everything TobAy, because so many aspects of it made me spit. Particularly the acting choices and how it was resolved. Do the weird KA looks get better on rewatch?

And once again something that makes zero sense given their own just newly created timeline. At least the Wren involvement had the benefit of helping to explain how Melissa and Wren could get back together and maybe with some hint of parental approval.

[raytch]

Did they ever explain who took all stuff from MonA's lair right after the season 2 finale? If Cece is to be believed she only started "the game" match later. Are we supposed to think it was Toby or Lucas?

I remember how I dreaded Mr. Fields return because I was sure he would be some religious fanatic or at least a homophobic asshole. And then he came and soon uttered one of my favourite lines in the whole show: "She's alive! And healthy! And after everything I have seen alive and healthy counts for a lot, believe me!" (after Pam was nagging him about him losing his values in the desert).

Didn't Mona dislike Jenna for stealing Noel Kahn from her in season 2? Or she was faking that too?

I always thought it was Ezra who took all the stuff from Mona's lair because his "research center" in Ravenswood contained a lot of things from Mona's lair. Like the Alison diaries and a couple of other things that I can't remember now.

[cuddlingcrowley]

1x18 - this is such a well structered and pivotal episode!

 

We get the reason why the girls will always be so hesitant to go to the police. Any "evidence" they find can be a potential trap from A.

 

It's also the start of "Ali - the monster". Going by suposition alone, these girls decide Alison is straight up evil and she was obviously the one to push a drunk girl down a set of stairs and that Jenna's blinding was on porpose. Given we're fresh from such storyline, I believe it would fit the narrative in s1 and the show as a whole that some of the stuff Alison did might have him forced by MonA. Of course, the Liars only realize Alison was also stalked by A much later and I don't remember if they actually ever consider this.

 

I do believe Alison when she said she wouldn't have thrown the stink bomb in the Cavaugh garage if she knew someone was in there. As far as the drunk girl who fell down the stairs goes, this new viewing of the episode makes me think neither Ian or Alison were responsible for pushing her. Alison took her time to join the girls after it happened so I think it's more likely Ian and Alison hooked up for the first time at this party.

 

Basically, the girls' brains go straight to murder way often when sex is most likely the answer. The girls are all over the place with who they think are guilty of stuff and we know they're wrong. A lot.

 

They were wrong about Toby and they're wrong about Ian having killed Alison, as well. Ian had an illegal "relationship" with Alison and he met with her, that night, so that looks terrible if the police ever found out. Melissa, in turn, not only had a motive for killing Alison (jealousy over Ian) but actually went as far as burrying Alison's body (because she believed it was Spencer who killed her). So their shadiness this season is easily explained by them desperately wanting to stay off the police's radar because they look really freaking guilty...but of course Spencer is making that really, really hard.

 

If you watch this show through Melissa and Ian's pov, knowing what we know, Spencer seems annoying and difficult as hell at the best of times, if not fucking insane at the worst, quite possibly trying to fling "her blame" on Ian and Melissa. It's awesome.

 

Basically, if she'd had been a tad more subtle in her suspicions, the Church confrontation probably would never have happened. But of course, we are talking about a teenage girl who has to live with two people she has reason to believe were involved with her friend's murder. So that's easier said than done. Hell, in an alternative universe where Ian and Melissa don't believe Spencer is way too fucking insane for it to work, they probably would have sat her down and made her realize that they're trying to protect not only themselves but her as well, in their own screwed up way. 

 

Also, knowing that Mona attempted to kill Alison and knows she came out alive from it explains really well why it seemed like at times A was Ali's killer and at times she was just an annoying frenemy giving the girls clues about what happened that night. MonA was both AND she was also leading the Liars away from her. Her so called "helpful" clues was a direct factor for the church confrontation.

 

Also, Ezria realizes what's the thing that'll break them up. It will only take like 5 seasons for it to sink in.

Edited August 21, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[cuddlingcrowley]

1x22 - I don't mean to repeat myself, but I'm in awe with the fact that Melissa (and IAN!!) believing Spencer killed Alison works so perfectly with the storyline in season 1. Ian and Melissa make SO MUCH MORE SENSE if you keep that in mind along with the stuff they fear for themselves (the videos, the ian/ali relationship being revealed, melissa having buried ali/bethany ). Hell, in the church confrontation Ian literally says what they believe happened: Spencer didn't mean to hurt Alison. It was an accident. Spencer pushed her and she fell. 

 

Spencer (along with the viewers) think Ian is telling her the story he's gonna tell after he fakes Spencer's suicide BUT IT'S ACTUALLY WHAT HIM AND MELISSA BELIEVE HAPPENED! And the reason he tries to get Spencer to run away a couple of episodes prior and the reason why he tries to kill her here is too FREE MELISSA. It's genious, seriously. Season 1 is simply glorious.

 

I've said it before in the TWOP boards, but Spencer, from Melissa's pov, is simply the best classic nineties' movie villain ever. She's the crazy little sister who not only "ruined" her engagement, but who Melissa implicated herself in a murder for, trying to protect her. But Spencer, from Melissa's pov, is so unhinged she's trying to fling the blame on Melissa's husband. That's basically season 1 of PLL from Melissa's pov to you. 

 

The thing that makes me really, really sad (one of the many), is that we never find out what Alison was talking about in regards to the liars knowing more than they thought, about that night. That's a thing Alison in season 4 lampshades and it never gets adressed.

 

But s1 stands not only strong but better than ever, even with the terrible Charles reveal, so we can all sigh in relief.

 

(Noel Kahn was totally the one who moved Ian's body btw. There's this completely unecessary shot of his beautiful face right after it's revealed Ian's body is gone. I'm thinking he moved Ian per Alison's request and/or that might have been how he and Mona bonded and start dating.)

Edited August 23, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[DigitalCount]

Yeah, Ian outright states it; "I'm doing this because I love her." As much as the goalposts of this show flopped around like crazy, the Hastings family drama has been remarkably consistent.

Edited August 23, 2015 by DigitalCount

[jjjmoss]

Well it's not only from Melissa's POV. Even aside from the Toby is A drama, Spencer has seemed pretty unhinged at various points to many an audience member.

[SadieT]

Well it's not only from Melissa's POV. Even aside from the Toby is A drama, Spencer has seemed pretty unhinged at various points to many an audience member.

That's always been one of the things I love most about her. But it gets a little hard to buy her as the "smart one" when she's been wrong about so many people over the course of the series and has probably ruined a few lives with her false accusations. She's basically accused half the town of Rosewood of murder, including herself, and I don't think she's ever actually been right.

[mercfan3]

Yea, I struggle with Spencer as the smart one too. Ali and Hanna are the smart ones. Spencer's the neurotic one. 

 

Actually, a good way to tell who is guilty is to have Spencer flat out state they are good. Nothing made me more suspicious of Caleb as when Spencer said she wanted to bottle him up and sell as "perfect boyfriend"