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Celebrating 1,000 NCIS-franchise episodes

S02.E05: Present Tense

Cranberry

By Cranberry
in Faking It [V]

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mjgchick

mjgchick

(edited)

Aww Amy, she's a crazy ball of sweet heart whose life's about to blow up after seeing the preview for the rest of the season. I'm ready for her to meet new people. She's just to awesome to be sad.

 

Lauren had to get on a bench to kiss Theo/Leo/I don't really know his name to be honest. The struggle for short girls is real.

 

I'm assuming Amy turned 16 already because Amy said Erma got her a card for her birthday too? Is this their way of having Amy with Reagan if she in dead turns out to be 18 and older? What's the age limit in Texas? PLL seems to get away with it because they are in Pennsylvania.

 

Shane and MMA guy made MMA so much hotter than it usually is.

 

Oh and Amy's mom continues to be awesome. Probably tied with Emily Fields mom on how to write parents who are progressing after finding out their kid is gay.

Edited by mjgchick
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beetlesoda

beetlesoda

Aww Amy (although the whole are you two banging behind my back accusation towards Karma made me raise an eyebrow cuz well Amy you were the last person to sleep with Liam......) anyway aww Amy I wish Karma felt the same way. Even as a friend you're awesome look at everything you did and all Liam did was write Happy birthday on a card, jeez Karma open your eyes! But I'm sure you find someone who deserves your awesome.

 

It was great to see the moms this episode.

 

Love love love me Lauren, so I'm happy to see her trying to get with Theo (although I feel she deserves a far superior companion) but ti'll be interesting to see if she tells Theo about her secret and how.

 

Not sure how I feel about Shane and MMA guy yet, I'll give it some time.

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galax-arena

galax-arena

(edited)

I thought that the majority of the characters were pretty unlikable in this ep. Not really on the "aww Amy" wagon, IMO she was verging into Nice Girl-ish territory for a while there, although she redeemed herself in the end. (However, I've never been a fan of the whole "Oh, I care about you so much, I'm going to let you have him because that's my gift to you!" trope.) Meanwhile, Karma was acting like an idiot about the note and should have just admitted that it was from Liam right away. And then there was Shane, who was completely out of line with Duke. And Theo was acting like a total hypocrite with some of his potshots at Shane: "There you go, thinking you're right again!" Look in the mirror when you say some of that stuff, Theo. And then Lauren had to go and thirst after Theo's dumb ass; I guess her crime is one of bad taste more than anything else, heh. Finally, Liam was... Liam. LOL. He was the most tolerable one this episode, but I'm still not buying into the show's attempts to have me like him. Not gonna work, show! Even if he weren't such a twerp, he's too bland and basic for me to give a shit. 

 

At this point I really don't want this show to have Karma reciprocate Amy's feelings in the end - the impression I get from some of the fandom that Amy "deserves" a chance with Karma squicks me out - but I have a feeling that that's where they're headed. Bring on Reagan, I say. 

Edited by galax-arena
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Latverian Diplomat

Latverian Diplomat

I thought that the majority of the characters were pretty unlikable in this ep.  

 Yes, but I was OK with most of it, because these are supposed to be high school kids, not humanitarians. 

 

The two things that seemed more troubling than the rest to me were: Theo seemed really upset about Shane's remarks about the MMA instructor being gay (gee, wonder why that guy feels he still has to be in the closet). And Shane was crossing the line during sparring with the instructor, yet it worked out great for him at the end.

 

I also think that Shane's "I don't date guys in the closet" stance is inappropriate for a high school student, even one who's out himself. I realize this is a fantasy oasis of liberal tolerance, but for a lot of gay high school kids, being out is not an option because of how their peers and/or parents would react. It can be a safety issue.

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Latverian Diplomat

Latverian Diplomat

Does anyone have any thoughts as to what's up with Theo?? That is, why he ran away after Lauren kissed him? I'd be kinda disappointed if they made him a closeted gay.

I don't get that vibe from him. I wonder if he's conflicted about dating a white girl? Could be some pressure from a parent or older sibling not to do that? It's a touchy subject, but this show tapdances on a land mines on a regular basis, and I mean that in a good way.

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gesundheit

gesundheit

(edited)

I'm assuming Amy turned 16 already because Amy said Erma got her a card for her birthday too? Is this their way of having Amy with Reagan if she in dead turns out to be 18 and older? What's the age limit in Texas? PLL seems to get away with it because they are in Pennsylvania.

 

The age of consent is 17 in Texas, but I doubt this show cares considering Shane is now getting it on with his teacher. (Or do I misunderstand, was he just a student who happened to coach other students in MMA?) Even on PLL, Ezra is committing a felony because of his age and job, but they don't care because apparently their love transcends laws or boundaries or propriety or... something. (It doesn't transcend my stomach, I know that much!)

 

I'm glad Amy is going to stop trying to keep Karma from dating someone else. I still see no chemistry there and would prefer Amy to move on. From the previews, it looks like Liam

confesses having sex with someone else but not who it was, and Karma gets furious. Which will bore me. They weren't together. But it also looks like Amy gets some Reagan lovin'!

 

I still can't really tell if Michael Willett is a particularly good actor or not, but I do find him endlessly engaging and fun.

Edited by gesundheit
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galax-arena

galax-arena

Wiki says the age of consent is 17, but that it's an "affirmative defense" if 1) the older person is no more than three years older than the younger person, 2) the younger person is older than 14, and 3) there's no duress or force involved (well, no shit). So it's something similar to a Romeo & Juliet clause, I'm assuming. Under these guidelines, if Amy's 16, then Reagan could possibly be as old as 19 without falling afoul. 

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gesundheit

gesundheit

(edited)

Wiki says the age of consent is 17, but that it's an "affirmative defense" if 1) the older person is no more than three years older than the younger person, 2) the younger person is older than 14, and 3) there's no duress or force involved (well, no shit). So it's something similar to a Romeo & Juliet clause, I'm assuming. Under these guidelines, if Amy's 16, then Reagan could possibly be as old as 19 without falling afoul. 

Thanks for the clarification, I just checked again, looks like I was looking at an outdated listing.

 

So a girl in college can legally have sex with a minor in high school in Texas. She just can't ever marry her. Texas forever! Ha.

 

I'm still curious about the teacher/student thing with Shane, though, but I may have been unclear on the guy's actual role.

Edited by gesundheit
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galax-arena

galax-arena

(edited)
So a girl in college can legally have sex with a minor in high school in Texas. She just can't ever marry her. Texas forever! Ha.

Wait, I might have spoken too soon. I got that "affirmative defense" stuff in relation to Texas Penal Code Section 21.11, which is specifically about "indecency with a child." However, the Penal Code Section 22.011, which is about sexual assault in general, further stipulates that the victim "was not a person whom the actor was prohibited from marrying or purporting to marry." So... since same-sex marriage is still illegal in Texas (for NOW, dun dun dunnn), it looks like while Reagan might not be guilty of "indecency with a child," she would be guilty of sexual assault? I don't know. I'm probably putting too much thought into this because I'm sure MTV doesn't give a shit.

 

Anyway, if that's the case, then I'm perfectly happy disregarding that because that's homophobic BS.

Edited by galax-arena
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gesundheit

gesundheit

Wait, I might have spoken too soon. I got that "affirmative defense" stuff in relation to Texas Penal Code Section 21.11, which is specifically about "indecency with a child." However, the Penal Code Section 22.011, which is about sexual assault in general, further stipulates that the victim "was not a person whom the actor was prohibited from marrying or purporting to marry." So... since same-sex marriage is still illegal in Texas (for NOW, dun dun dunnn), it looks like while Reagan might not be guilty of "indecency with a child," she would be guilty of sexual assault? I don't know. I'm probably putting too much thought into this because I'm sure MTV doesn't give a shit.

 

Anyway, if that's the case, then I'm perfectly happy disregarding that because that's homophobic BS.

You're right that MTV certainly won't care but that's an interesting legal conundrum! There have absolutely been states where people have been convicted and imprisoned despite the age-difference stipulations because it was a same-sex situation. Some states are specific about those laws, some really don't mention it at all and therefore prosecutors can play dirty with it for exactly the reasons you state above.

 

I didn't get the sense that the MMA class was associated with the high school, so equating Duke to a "teacher" is a bit of a stretch IMO (unless I missed something?).

Okay, I really wasn't sure. On TV high school people just seem to have access to everything on the planet, so I guess it's feasible that it could just be a fun MMA activity at the teen center or... something. It was unclear to me.

 

(But again, I doubt MTV cares one way or the other. I just get my haunches up about this stuff on TV, I can't help it!)

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JaM

JaM

(edited)

I didn't get the sense that the MMA class was associated with the high school, so equating Duke to a "teacher" is a bit of a stretch IMO (unless I missed something?).

It wasn't. They mentioned this gym was downtown.. not in Hester.. Duke is son of owner, plus a MMA athlete, which explains why he doesn't want to be outed as gay.

Edited by JaM
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gesundheit

gesundheit

It wasn't. They mentioned this gym was downtown.. not in Hester.. Duke is son of owner, plus a MMA athlete, which explains why he doesn't want to be outed as gay.

Thanks! I missed that completely. That makes more sense.

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dohe

dohe

(edited)

That was a rough episode.  The lesbian realizing her place and creepily handing over the woman she loves to the man was fitting with the same mindset that would have a lesbian have sex with a man as a cliffhanger.  Maybe Amy can put the condom on Liam before he has sex with Karma. 

 

Theo acted like a jerk to Shane.  Shane acted like a jerk to the MMA fighter and I didn't buy that MMA fighter being interested in Shane after what Shane did.  That was as uncomfortable a meet cute as I have seen in awhile.  What kind of meet cute involves a person trying to pull down someone else's clothes so they can prove the person is closeted.  Major league creepy.

 

I don't get the character of Theo.  Are they purposefully making him as unpleasant and patronizing as possible on purpose?

Edited by dohe
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wayne67

wayne67

(edited)

I'm really bored of the tainted twisted triangle between Amy Karma and Liam. Yawn.

 

For a second I hoped that Amy and Karma's previous friendship would be explored so I could understand why they are friends in the first place but Liam overshadowed that and the end result was lame. Amy whether you're straight, lesbian or bisexual you really shouldn't give people permission to date each other in such a weird way, it makes you look crazy... and not in the good way.

 

Lauren and Shane is the only reason I now watch this show. Their antics are hilarious and inconsiderate which is a combination I can support whereas most of the tainted triangle is just dull... 

 

Shane really doesn't understand boundaries of other people, good news is that MMA fighter must be really desperate for action after all that sweaty half naked groping with muscular men which is probably the only reason he... made Shane have hilarious faces... Probably why he said he didn't want to date him because to be honest Shane is an asshole most of the time. He'd be a hilarious bitchy best friend but a terrible boyfriend.

 

On other news I'm now shipping Lauren and Shane as a nice non heteronormative power couple. Bring on the chaos.

Edited by wayne67
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ybrik

ybrik

Well, this ep felt very much like a set up episode. I definitely get an idea of where this show is trying to go with its storylines but I felt like this episode was awkwardly done. As I have been saying in previous posts for different eps the show obviously wants to really make the moment when Karma learns the truth as painful/dramatic as possible. This ep took the major steps towards setting the stage. It got Liam and Karma together again and Amy giving her blessing.

 

However, it was awkwardly done. Maybe the writers tried to make it too dramatic or simply the character of Amy and Karma have a really awkward relationship. Nothing that happened in the ep were particularly out of character by either character. Hopefully the storyline moves more smoothly now that the big step has been made and the show is moving towards the season's obvious climax.

 

Have to agree with the others about not really knowing what to think about Theo. I don't mind someone questioning Shane but it seems too forced. Not sure what his secret is. Hopefully once that comes out we'll get a better understanding of the character and he fits in better.

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Misty79

Misty79

I found the Karma, Amy and Liam stuff super cringe-worthy in this episode. Still, if it meant the end of the agonizing awkwardness between Amy and Karma and the return of their normal fun friendship then I could deal. But the promo had more Karmy baiting as its pièce de résistance, and we still have to deal with Lamy sex fall out, so blah. 

 

I do not like Theo either. He's patronizing and bigoted. Unless he turns out to be a closeted dude with some serious issues then I don't understand why Lauren would be into him. 

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Black Knight

Black Knight

I also think that Shane's "I don't date guys in the closet" stance is inappropriate for a high school student, even one who's out himself. I realize this is a fantasy oasis of liberal tolerance, but for a lot of gay high school kids, being out is not an option because of how their peers and/or parents would react. It can be a safety issue.

 

I disagree. If Shane had said something along the lines of, "You should be out of the closet," then yes, he would have been over the line because some people have situations that make it very difficult and/or unsafe, for them to be out (though note he wasn't talking to a high school student, but an adult). But he just said that he isn't going to date someone who is in the closet. It's not easy for an out person to be in a relationship with a closeted person - the hiding, the sneaking around, the evasions or outright lying, and so on. It's entirely appropriate for Shane, like any other out person, to make a choice of whether or not they want to deal with that. There's no right or wrong answer, it's just up to each person to decide what they are or aren't able to deal with, like any number of other factors (e.g. not wanting to date someone who works so much you hardly see them, not wanting to date someone with children because you don't want children ever, etc.).

 

I guess I heard the promo completely wrong, because I thought Liam said, "I slept with Amy," but I gather from the comments here that he didn't. What did he say, then?

 

I agree Amy was being a bit Nice-Girlish, but at least she snapped out of it finally. And while normally I would think the whole "giving permission" thing was gross, I can see where here it was necessary because Karma's position was that she wasn't going to see Liam if it would cost her Amy. She didn't think she could have both of them and so she chose Amy. And I can see where she would think that because, while Amy made a lot out of the whole secrecy issue, she was bothered last season even when Karma was telling her everything - Karma pointed that out in the season finale. So while Karma shouldn't be keeping secrets or lying, I don't think Amy's reaction would really have been any better. The root of the issue for Amy is that she didn't want Karma to be with Liam because she wanted Karma all to herself. Anyway, I'm looking forward to Amy/Reagan. Then presumably everything goes to hell...

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JaM

JaM

(edited)

i really hope they will go the way of that prediction Karma got this episode... but instead of Liam being love of her life, its (obviously to us) Amy, and she will only realize it, when Reagan will be in her way and it will be too late so she will be the one who would have to "let her free..."

Edited by JaM
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CaliforniaLove

CaliforniaLove

I disagree. If Shane had said something along the lines of, "You should be out of the closet," then yes, he would have been over the line because some people have situations that make it very difficult and/or unsafe, for them to be out (though note he wasn't talking to a high school student, but an adult). But he just said that he isn't going to date someone who is in the closet. It's not easy for an out person to be in a relationship with a closeted person - the hiding, the sneaking around, the evasions or outright lying, and so on. It's entirely appropriate for Shane, like any other out person, to make a choice of whether or not they want to deal with that. There's no right or wrong answer, it's just up to each person to decide what they are or aren't able to deal with, like any number of other factors (e.g. not wanting to date someone who works so much you hardly see them, not wanting to date someone with children because you don't want children ever, etc.).

 

I guess I heard the promo completely wrong, because I thought Liam said, "I slept with Amy," but I gather from the comments here that he didn't. What did he say, then?

 

I agree Amy was being a bit Nice-Girlish, but at least she snapped out of it finally. And while normally I would think the whole "giving permission" thing was gross, I can see where here it was necessary because Karma's position was that she wasn't going to see Liam if it would cost her Amy. She didn't think she could have both of them and so she chose Amy. And I can see where she would think that because, while Amy made a lot out of the whole secrecy issue, she was bothered last season even when Karma was telling her everything - Karma pointed that out in the season finale. So while Karma shouldn't be keeping secrets or lying, I don't think Amy's reaction would really have been any better. The root of the issue for Amy is that she didn't want Karma to be with Liam because she wanted Karma all to herself. Anyway, I'm looking forward to Amy/Reagan. Then presumably everything goes to hell...

I believe Liam said "I slept with someone"...since it's a 2 syllable word said by a terrible actor, I understand the confusion.

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JaM

JaM

it wont. I think Liam will spill the beans, then Karma will break up with him publicly which will make Amy tell the truth it was her.. (at least that is what i got from that midseason trailer, where Karma shot Liam, while Amy was standing next to her, which means Karma still didnt know it was Amy who slept with Liam, yet we see Karma putting down all those pictures eventually)

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Milks26

Milks26

Does anyone have any thoughts as to what's up with Theo?? That is, why he ran away after Lauren kissed him? I'd be kinda disappointed if they made him a closeted gay.

When season 2 trailer came out before the show began I thought he was gay - but not I don't think so. I think his secret has to do with his family, but I hope its not dragged out too long.

So far this is my favorite episode this season, although it may change since we have 14 more episodes to go.

 

But, it will definitely be in the top 10 of season 2.

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