S02.E09: Hang Men

[Snazzy Daisy]

Quote

At a second trial, the prosecution aims to prove that Erik and Lyle are cold-blooded killers.

After the verdict, the brothers face a new reality.

Air Date: Sep 19, 2024

 

 

Edited September 19 by Snazzy Daisy

[Snazzy Daisy]

Another Milli Vanilli song!

Quote

“If you’ve been abused, you cannot be accused.”

Every actions and bad decisions have consequences, Lyle. Welcome to the real world. 🙄

 

OVERALL:

The story about the Menendezes is less darker and less gripping than the Dahmer’s story. The editing could be better, I notice some repetitions particularly in describing the abuse.

There are a lot of confusions and uncertainties surrounding their real motive for killing their parents — abuse OR financial gains? We see the caring side of Jose and Kitty, and also the sociopathic traits of the brothers. What to believe?

Season 2 also feels a bit exploitative. It shows how (alleged) lifelong sexual abuse has altered Lyle and Erik — psychologically, emotionally and sexually. In a typical Ryan Murphy way, the erotic layer between the brothers has been added for salaciousness. It’s also to depict how challenging it is for victims of sexual abuse to have a normal relationship. At one point, Dominick Dunne’s character even suggests that it’s the motive for killing their parents.

Ari Graynor gives a standout performance as Leslie Abramson. Also, great casting of Cooper Koch and Nicholas Chavez as the Menendez brothers. Looking forward to see Nicholas Chavez in Grotesquerie on Sep 25. 😉

 

[txhorns79]

I honestly have no idea what to take away from this series.  Some of it was just gross and exploitative.  Kitty walking in on her sons having shower sex was unnecessary, much like nearly every scene that had the men shirtless, or in skimpy bathing suits for reasons that had nothing to do with the plot.  

I really have no idea what to make of Erik and Lyle's allegations regarding their parents.  Lyle is portrayed as a skilled liar, but also really, really dumb.  Erik is something of the same, without having the same kind of crazed outbursts his brother does.  However, Kitty and Jose seem awful in their own ways.  It's very hard to tell what is the truth.            

It was also interesting to see how Dominick Dunne was portrayed in American Crime Story about the OJ trial, versus how he was here.  Here, he was overly invested, while in that, he was detached but still having dinner parties to entertain his guests about the trial.  

I did like Ari Graynor.  I felt for Leslie during that awful second trial.  I'm not sure if the Judge was really as awful at the trial as he was portrayed, but you know things are bad when the Judge is essentially allowing the prosecutor to testify about the defense attorney's trial strategy.    

[iMonrey]

Overall, I think the series did a pretty good job presenting alternative scenarios and motives, covering every angle. I remember seeing a documentary about the Menendez brothers and their case several years ago. At the time, my takeaway was that there was certainly sexual abuse. I even think there was some evidence they didn't include in this series. We also (now) know a former member of Menudo has claimed he was raped by Jose Menendez. So while I definitely think Lyle and Eric are monsters, I also feel like Jose and Kitty got what was coming to them. Both things can be true. In any case, if Lyle and Erik are monsters, someone made them that way. They didn't come out of the box that way.

I think the casting was good but the kid who played Lyle looked younger than the kid who played Erik. And his hair looked more realistic than real Lyle's did. 

I did think there was too much of Dominick Dunne. I can see the rationale for making him part of the story and he had some relevance in the beginning. But by the end, the scenes of him regaling his socialite friends with gossip and speculation just went on and on and felt pointless. Again, it felt too much like the writers trying to give Nathan Lane meaty enough material for him to want to do that part. 

18 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Kitty walking in on her sons having shower sex was unnecessary, much like nearly every scene that had the men shirtless, or in skimpy bathing suits for reasons that had nothing to do with the plot.

Well, when you sign up for a Ryan Murphy show, you have to expect a certain level of male eye candy. 

[txhorns79]

3 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Well, when you sign up for a Ryan Murphy show, you have to expect a certain level of male eye candy. 

I don't know.  Both American Crime Stories on OJ and Impeachment managed to cover serious topics without relying on gratuitous nudity or trying to sex up their main subjects.   

[luna1122again]

I've seen a lot of folks on TikTok and reddit objecting to this show because it doesn't portray the brothers accurately, and because it leaves doubt as to who the monsters are...but I think the point is very much made that everyone here is a monster. The series most definitely doesn't downplay the abuse by the monstrous parents, but it also shows us how it made monsters of the sons. I'm not even sure what Erik's objections to the series is, exactly, tho of course I'm sure much is guesswork and speculative and pure fiction. It's not a documentary. And it's a Ryan Murphy project. You almost always know, going in, that it's going to be sensationalized and lurid and homoerotic. 

I think Nicholas Chavez (and he IS the younger of the two actors, even though he played the older brother) was fantastic, even if the characterization of Lyle doesn't seem to jibe with the brothers' champions. They say he's too arrogant and brash and that Lyle was never that, that he was shy and sweet, but don't we have actual evidence of the arrogance and spoiled brattiness of the two, both prior and after  the crimes? The tapes of Lyle's phone calls to "Norma" bear out his cockiness and cunning, do they not? And Chavez did a great job showing his vulnerabilities too. The viewers laughing at the toupee being ripped off by his mother astounded me. That was clearly traumatic. 

 

 

 

[iMonrey]

I had to look this up, because I needed to refresh my memory. Lyle and Erik were initially tried separately. Both trials ended with hung juries. The juries believed the evidence of sexual abuse which is why they couldn't vote in favor of the prosecution, which denied any sexual abuse occurred. They were re-tried together, and most of the abuse evidence was ruled inadmissible. So the screaming jurist in the show that ended up having a stroke or whatever wouldn't have actually heard any of the stuff she was disputing. That would more likely have happened after one of the first two trials, if at all.

[dubbel zout]

On 9/22/2024 at 5:52 PM, Snazzy Daisy said:

There are a lot of confusions and uncertainties surrounding their real motive for killing their parents — abuse OR financial gains?

Why not both? Whether there was sexual abuse we'll never know, but the parents were abusive emotionally and physically, for sure. It doesn't surprise me that the sons would feel entitled to any financial windfall they'd get if their parents died.

Everyone in this family was so messed up in so many ways.

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 the screaming jurist in the show

That was Vicki Lawrence! (I think her character had a heart attack.)

[iMonrey]

23 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

That was Vicki Lawrence! (I think her character had a heart attack.)

OMG I didn't even recognize her.

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

OMG I didn't even recognize her.

You mean she didn't appear as this:

 

I'll show myself out...

[sugarbaker design]

Didn't learn anything new, I was already familiar with the case.  I believe the abuse happened.  Two monsters created two more monsters.  I've always thought both bros weren't too bright and were too greedy for their own good.  Murdering their parents wasn't their only recourse.  By the time the murders occurred they were both young men, they could've moved out. I appreciated the performances, esp Bardem, Sevigny and Gaynor.

[lianau]

On 10/7/2024 at 4:49 PM, sugarbaker design said:

Didn't learn anything new, I was already familiar with the case.  I believe the abuse happened.  Two monsters created two more monsters.  I've always thought both bros weren't too bright and were too greedy for their own good.  Murdering their parents wasn't their only recourse.  By the time the murders occurred they were both young men, they could've moved out. I appreciated the performances, esp Bardem, Sevigny and Gaynor.

This reasoning always falls flat to me because it comes dangerously close to victim blaming. It's the same line of thinking that ends up asking battered wives why they haven't left their abusive partners sooner. 

[sugarbaker design]

53 minutes ago, lianau said:

This reasoning always falls flat to me because it comes dangerously close to victim blaming. It's the same line of thinking that ends up asking battered wives why they haven't left their abusive partners sooner. 

Dangerously close maybe, but not quite there.  Victim blaming was certainly not my intent.

[lianau]

4 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Dangerously close maybe, but not quite there.  Victim blaming was certainly not my intent.

For me the problem is that  language like that is also part of the reason for why women who kill their abusers on average receive higher sentences  than men who kill their partners. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Okay, I finally watched this and GOOD GOD.

The creative license taken is just mind boggling and gross.

That said, I had no problem recognizing Vicki Lawrence. Too bad she didn’t look like Mama!🤣🤣🤣

I was astounded that for the second trial-the judge allowed so much hearsay and overruled objections that should have been sustained. And that he never, once allowed Leslie to approach the bench. I know the second trial wasn’t televised so I don’t know how much is true or Ryan and Ian writing out of their asses.

There are two or three documentaries out there now that tell what happened and jurors from the trials as well as journalists that were there, that are better than this dreck.

But DAMN-is Leslie Abramson HATED.