S07.E01: Driven

[Samantha84]

This was not a character driven story .. it was all about plot. I didn't really feel any emotional connection to anyone or their pain. Beckett, Alexis, and Martha's pain should have been palpable. We saw some of Beckett's but I expected & wanted more from Alexis and Martha! 

[Lamb18]

I still think Castle knows what happened but he can't tell because of a threat - and I'm thinking maybe his dad is behind it.  I wonder if he had to ransom his dad or help him escape from something, and went through being kidnaped, etc., to help his dad.  I feel like Castle was pretending he had a two-month memory loss and was doing a bad job at it (as portrayed intentionally by Nathan Fillion).

[verdana]

For a supposedly character driven show there is precious little time spent focused on developing them, everything is plot driven as Samantha so rightly said. 

 

Very pleased to read babygray's review and see it posted here. She was contemplating not doing them from now on, glad to see she's had a change of heart - at least this week. Excellent, very thoughtful and making interesting points as usual. 

 

The funny thing is that I’m pretty sure the lack of rewards is completely intentional because they want us to keep watching. I just don’t like that kind of storytelling when it comes immediately after a hiatus. I find it irritating.

 

Hesitancy and a lack of rewards for the audience is standard procedure on this show especially when it comes to Castle and Beckett. She's also right that the viewers needed something more than what they got on the Caskett front after that finale and a long hiatus and there were none. I'm sure the writers know what they're doing and it's deliberately done, it sure as hell feels that way to me. They're so intent on holding back for fear of giving the fans too much of the good meaty stuff that it affects everything they do and the real (and more interesting) story often gets lost in the process, that holding back makes too many of their scenes together comes over as awkward and oddly flat. 

 

And the added problem is when they do decide to focus on something which they held back on before it feels really weird because you know they should have tackled it months sometimes even years before so I never find it truly satisfying. 

 

Had to agree with this comment taken from Denise Gideon's review about Espo:

 

Javier Esposito was an obnoxious jerk in this episode who seemed to relish every minute it seemed Castle was in on his kidnapping. Was it just him being pompous or was it the actor Jon Huertas continuing to push his ill-conceived head canon that Kate Beckett and Esposito had a romantic past? Either way, it wasn’t needed.

 

Edited October 1, 2014 by verdana

[alldressedup]

I also thought this episode was a set up for the new Derrick Storm series.

 

I thought this episode was about Castle as a sleeper agent. They activate him for short term assignments but he doesn't overtly remember anything specific about them when not activated. This assignment lasted longer than most (2 months). I think Martha knows about these - she was very "let's not ask too many questions" throughout the episode. Not exactly Manchurian Candidate, but a lighter version where she knows but does not control.

 

Here's the real speculation - Castle's handler is an agent named Derrick Storm. Storm's as real as Beckett in the fictional universe and the new series will be about the "real" Derrick Storm, not the Castle fictional character. The Derrick Storm novels were based on what Castle remembers about his real adventures as a sleeper agent along with Storm. He didn't just do research on tsunamis, he lived through one on a case with Storm but cannot recall that part, only the lingering "irrational" fear and the notion that he had researched them.

 

Just a theory, but a couple of pieces seem to fit and it would set up the new series quite nicely. 

[oberon55]

Here's the real speculation - Castle's handler is an agent named Derrick Storm. Storm's as real as Beckett in the fictional universe and the new series will be about the "real" Derrick Storm, not the Castle fictional character. The Derrick Storm novels were based on what Castle remembers about his real adventures as a sleeper agent along with Storm. He didn't just do research on tsunamis, he lived through one on a case with Storm but cannot recall that part, only the lingering "irrational" fear and the notion that he had researched them.

 

This is a good theory. The problem is how do you believably get an international bestselling author as a spy. That's like having J K Rowling turn out to be a MI6 agent. And how do you reconcile that with spy dad. Was he part of it or was he such a shitty spy that he had no clue what they were doing to his son. If they go this route I foresee a lot of retconning on the horizon.

Edited October 1, 2014 by oberon55

[Nighteyes]

I agree with everything that's been said. Beckett is a police officer, and apparently one so good that she was recruited to the FBI. And yet, when she sees Castle making a money drop, she (and everyone else) immediately assumes that Castle is the person behind this? Because he wants to get out of the wedding? WTH? This isn't Victorian era England, where one could get sued for a breach of promise suit. This is the 21st century, in America, where, if you don't want to get married, and are too idiotic to say anything, you just don't show up. You don't forsake all of your (not insignificant) assets and wealth. Not to mention your daughter and mother! And even if we go with "Castle has a shady secret and is mixed up with the mob underworld", they've been there before! Obviously Castle would bring it to his friends. Unless his loved ones were threatened, as people here have speculated. 

 

I've read through the thread, and I haven't seen this mentioned. At the scene at the end,  Castle apologizes, and Beckett says, "It's not your fault. You've been through a lot, too." Ummmm, WHAT? There's no "too". You, Beckett, have understandably been through a lot emotionally. But the extent of your physical trauma has been cutting of your hair. Castle has been shot, exposed to dengue, and who only knows what else. He's the one that has suffered the most. And, when he returns, rather than a warm and teary reunion with "the love of (his) life", he is subjected to a police interrogation and made to feel like he is the criminal?? Man, given how Beckett has almost no trust in him, and Esposito was ready to sell him out at the drop of a hat, maybe it's good that they didn't get married. How the hell is a relationship supposed to work when there is clearly this level of distrust between the 2 partners?

 

As to the completely unrealistic reactions of everyone in response to Castle returning (including Castle himself), what-freaking-ever.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Nighteyes

[cappuccino]

This is a good theory. The problem is how do you believably get an international bestselling author as a spy. That's like having J K Rowling turn out to be a MI6 agent. And how do you reconcile that with spy dad. Was he part of it or was he such a shitty spy that he had no clue what they were doing to his son. If they go this route I foresee a lot of retconning on the horizon.

I guess this could work if this was all set in motion after we got introduced to Hunt in season 5. Still not working really since when would Castle have had the time to do that and from the interview Matt Letscher gave earlier, it rather sounds as if their past happened before the show started. But I guess with Marlowe you never know. Oh sorry with Amann you never know.

[oberon55]

Man, given how Beckett has almost no trust in him, and Esposito was ready to sell him out at the drop of a hat, maybe it's good that they didn't get married. How the hell is a relationship supposed to work when there is clearly this level of distrust between the 2 partners?

 

It will work because in 3 or 4 episodes the characters will forget it ever happened. That's why I'm not shocked by Castle not remembering the events surrounding his disappearance. These characters have always had selective amnesia. Any inconvenient truth is simply forgotten by the entire cast.

[Discworld]

I watched the episode after reading some of the comments here so my expectations were dialled way down - maybe that's why I found the episode fairly enjoyable. I really thought Stana did a great job and sold Beckett's confusion and pain. - loved her reaction to the coffee and her dialogue with Ryan after seeing the video - something about the way she said ' it was his clothes, the way he moved, it was him' - resignation, confusion and pain all palpable IMO.

And I don't personally feel that Beckett had lost trust in Castle - she was desperate and confused and being presented with 'facts' on the one hand and babble about a book he never wrote and tsunamis on the other. I think it came across that she was mentally and emotionally spent and just couldn't take anymore. She saw the video, it threw her, she went into cop mode, speaking to Alexis and Martha she reverted to Beckett and realised she believed in Castle.

However, I do also agree with most of the the criticism - the last scene had a definite paternal feel to it from Castle. That everyone believed Castle would voluntarily camp out was nonsensical but the thing that actually jarred me most was that no one seemed bothered that whoever did this is on the loose? I mean come on! Would Castle not worry it was 3KKK with whom he was obsessed not all that long ago. I'd be freaking out if I or a family member was found after having been shot by lord knows who and no memory of it? I wouldn't be sitting around drinking champagne thinking everything is grand. That no-one found that odd (on the show) is mind-boggling.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Discworld

[alldressedup]

This is a good theory. The problem is how do you believably get an international bestselling author as a spy. That's like having J K Rowling turn out to be a MI6 agent. And how do you reconcile that with spy dad. Was he part of it or was he such a shitty spy that he had no clue what they were doing to his son. If they go this route I foresee a lot of retconning on the horizon.

 

It's more like a M16 agent becoming JK Rowling. Maybe they used his fame in their favor, I don't know, or maybe he stuck to tropical islands where Richard Castle isn't well known.

 

I think spy dad had to know and maybe that's part of Martha's back story, too. There will need to be hand waving, but because most of it would have happened prior to the start of the series they could brush off a lot with "we thought that part of your life was over". Weave Casino Royale in there and I'm guessing most casual fans will be satisfied. Maybe a passage in that book is his 'trigger' and meeting spy dad and getting a new copy of the book was his reactivation or some such.

[Discworld]

I agree that it comes across that Martha and Alexis view it all as case closed but that is what I find ridiculous and unbelievable. You'd worry about this mystery non-ransom seeking kidnapping surely and what it meant and whether it could happen again. The lack of that worry just felt jarring to me.

I saw the comforting aspect of the end scene. Just came across to me like it could have been anyone - sibling, father, friend offering the comforting rather than fiancé - as the review said, I felt it lacked intimacy but it's a subjective view of course.

As I said though I did find the episode more enjoyable than many did.

[Ticketyboo23]

I think Nighteyes summed a lot of the major points. I know they are homicide detectives and as Castle isn't dead does that explain their nonsense investigation? Could they even come up with a motive, a good reason why Castle would put Beckett through that, but more importantly his mother & daughter (who was previously kidnapped herself)? Glad Castle is back, they need the help with cases. It didn't quite hit the S5 finale depths but it came pretty darn close.

The whole 'extraordinary' thing with Beckett makes me laugh as they've done nothing but make her ordinary. You can find any number of shows with a 'badass' workaholic female character who has some trauma in her past & relationship issues. Nevermind, a couple of episodes in I'm sure she'll switch back to devoted. Castle doesn't seem that enthusiastic about the relationship? Who could blame him, he probably has whiplash.

On that note I'll be 'will I keep watching' mad if they have Castle lying about his memory loss. I'd like to give them credit for Castle's muted reaction being deliberate but my expectations are low right now. What I'd like to see is Castle's CIA access not being due to his father, but because he was needed for just one job, because he was 'Richard Castle celebrity writer'. This is the fallout & something he has seen or heard since his return has tipped him off to that.

[KaveDweller]

Firstly so much so the 'season of Castle'. Seemed all Beckett centric business as usual 

 

This episode was always supposed to be Beckett-centric though, because it was about searching for Castle.  If we saw his perspective, the search would be boring.  I think next week when Castle starts looking into what happened, we'll get to be more about Castle. 

 

I know a lot of people are theorizing about CIA/Derek Storm stuff, but didn't Marlowe or Amman say we would find out why Castle is so interested in murder?  To me that suggests something from childhood, not a secret CIA agent thing.  Making Castle some kind of ex-agent contradicts much of what has happened in earlier seasons (but doesn't mean the writer's wouldn't go there).

 

& our 'exceptional' detective manages to leap to the possibility that her future husband is actively involved because he does a money drop solo. Really?

 

She didn't actually believe he was involved just from the video though.  She considered it, but then said to Alexis and Martha that she didn't believe he would just walk away.  I don't think it's wrong of her to consider the possibility that she didn't know something that was going on.  It was after they found the tent and the witness that she started to really question things.  I think that after two months of looking for him it's not unreasonable that finding evidence he could have called her anytime would make her break down a little.  Especially when she finally sees him and he's making jokes about the whole thing, and then the doctor says she doesn't think Castle really has amnesia.  I think Beckett really wanted to believe there had been some kind of trauma, but when she asks the doctor about that, the doctor doesn't really support that.

 

I also think it's interesting that people are giving Beckett flak for questioning him, when lots of people also think Castle is lying to her.

 

On the subject of actor's efforts I see once again NF is getting the flak for Castle's muted reactions, the script obviously gave him loads to work with & I'm sure the director let him make all the decisions about how it was played

 

Just because someone criticizes NF doesn't mean the writers and directors get a pass.  They can all be bad at their jobs.

Edited October 1, 2014 by KaveDweller

[verdana]

I've read through the thread, and I haven't seen this mentioned. At the scene at the end,  Castle apologizes, and Beckett says, "It's not your fault. You've been through a lot, too." Ummmm, WHAT? There's no "too". You, Beckett, have understandably been through a lot emotionally. But the extent of your physical trauma has been cutting of your hair. Castle has been shot, exposed to dengue, and who only knows what else. He's the one that has suffered the most. (snipped)

Her response there was completely in character, I like Beckett most of the time but the one thing that's always annoyed me is her chronic self absorption which always rears it's head in dramatic episodes (Watershed, Always etc) so her response there felt natural to me.  Her first thoughts always seem to be how is this affecting me? Some people are like that though they can't help themselves in certain situations, it's ingrained. 

[verdana]

This episode was always supposed to be Beckett-centric though, because it was about searching for Castle.  If we saw his perspective, the search would be boring.  I think next week when Castle starts looking into what happened, we'll get to be more about Castle. 

 

But the search as it was I found boring any way. It was poorly paced and he was suddenly found in a dingy of all things. 

 

I disagree that having more focus on Castle would have made it dull so it had to be on Beckett, I feel quite the opposite. I would have been far more interested in the episode if we had been able to see both sides of the situation and how they were coping. Beckett desperate for answers, clinging to the support of Martha and Alexis, losing hope sometimes, getting angry and lashing out because she had no firm leads. Then on the other hand the audience get to see Castle struggling with his own demons and whatever he was going through. Okay they would have to film in such a way that they didn't give away too much (because clearly they want to keep this mythology under wraps) but they could have figured something out. 

[KaveDweller]

Her first thoughts always seem to be how is this affecting me? Some people are like that though they can't help themselves in certain situations, it's ingrained.

 

I don't think that was so self-absorbed, Castle apologized (unnecessarily) for what she'd been through.  She wasn't bringing up what she went through, he did. It's not like he was talking about not remembering and she jumped in talking about how hard it was for her.  

[oberon55]

Her response there was completely in character, I like Beckett most of the time but the one thing that's always annoyed me is her chronic self absorption which always rears it's head in dramatic episodes (Watershed, Always etc) so her response there felt natural to me.  Her first thoughts always seem to be how is this affecting me? Some people are like that though they can't help themselves in certain situations, it's ingrained. 

 

This is where the choices the writers made in the past start to weigh on the characters. If you look at this strictly as a stand alone incident you can understand her having doubts. But when you look at the history these people have shared it changes everything. Esposito (who took about 2 seconds to turn on Castle like a rabid dog) was impersonated just last season by a frankenstein created by an evil surgeon. Just 2 seasons ago Castle was charged with murder on completely faked evidence. Hell even Beckett was framed for murder last season.  So yeah, considering their past experiences I would say that Beckett & the boys jumped the damn gun. Especially when it's obvious that Castle has been through a physically traumatic event. Even if he did all this himself you would think the woman that loved him would be worried about his mental health instead of suspicious that this is some plot to get out of marrying her.

Edited October 1, 2014 by oberon55

[KaveDweller]

I think somebody said they could have Kate be doubtful but still drawn to the man she loves. Her heart wanting to believe the good but her head telling her it's bad. The heart reaching out to him. Being affectionate...then showing her maybe show her misgivings. More subtly. So Castle has to pick up on it and ask her point-blank.

 

I guess that's where we differ, because I did think they were still showing her being drawn to him and wanting to believe.  I agree it could have been good if they had it be more subtle so that Castle brought it up.

 

I also don't get the comments that they seem brother/sister or father/daughter at all.  Just because they aren't all over each other doesn't mean they have to be related.  I would never lean on my brother or father the way Beckett was crying in that final scene.  Maybe when I was 7 I would have, but not as an adult.  I thought it seemed sweet and intimate, but also a little sad.  Castle should have done one of those forehead kisses though.

[KaveDweller]

Again, the assumption is that we want them to be "all over each other," and as I've stated time and again, that is NOT what I want. At all. Ever. I need to be clear on this.

If you watch Bones, you'd see what I'm talking about. The affection. The love. The way they look at each other. The tender moments. The way the sex is intermingled with emotion. I never want just kissing. I never want just sex. Again, I want to make myself clear on that.

 

No, I get that in general people don't mean they want they just want sex.  That's been a theme for a couple seasons now, and I totally get that and agree.  I was talking specifically about the final scene in this episode, where people were complaining about the scene seeming father/daughter.  I disagree and I'm not sure what more they could do in that specific scene.

 

I've seen Bones. I don't think the interaction between the two leads is any better than Caskett.  I think Castle and Beckett do show love and affection.  I think they do have good chemistry.  I wish the writing was better at giving them more romantic moments, but I don't have a problem with the ones we get.  I also think they do look at each other like they love each other.  Or at least Beckett looks at him like she loves him and Castle looks at her he loves her on days Nathan isn't phoning it in.  Mileage varies, obviously.

[Tripp]

I'm not upset about any lack of chemistry.  Honestly I didn't expect to see it last night and I don't think anything with the leads. It's the way they wrote the storyline.  It's awkward and uncomfortable and we have get past all of this for them to get back to the way they were (and I thought they were great before...when written to do so).  

 

I also watch Bones and I prefer Caskett 10 times everyday over them.  And I found it amusing for Bones that after Booth has been in prison/jail for months, he and Brennan had very little affection between each other.  It was all about trying to find the truth in his frame up.  Which is very similar to Caskett once Castle showed up in the premiere.  The difference is Castle has decided to introduce this ridiculous amount of doubt over Castle's character which is affecting his relationships. I HATE that.  I still do.  

 

And a couple of days later I'm still furious at Esposito.  Ugh, I'm so sorry.  I just...can't get past it.  I know he's the naysayer and the cynical cop.  Would he turn on Kate or Ryan like that?  No!  He will never know Castle as well as  he knows them BUT he's worked with Castle for 7 years and they've risked their lives for each other.  How much more does he need to offer the same trust that I'm sure he would show his other partners.  

 

Man, it still ticks me off.  LOL.  I honestly think if they had left that out...I probably would have liked the episode.

[KaveDweller]

And a couple of days later I'm still furious at Esposito.  Ugh, I'm so sorry.  I just...can't get past it.  I know he's the naysayer and the cynical cop.  Would he turn on Kate or Ryan like that?  No!  He will never know Castle as well as  he knows them BUT he's worked with Castle for 7 years and they've risked their lives for each other.  How much more does he need to offer the same trust that I'm sure he would show his other partners.

 

What bothered me about Esposito is that he seemed so ready to write Castle off.  At least with Ryan, he was like, "wow, the DNA is his (as though that couldn't be faked), how could he do this?"  Espo didn't even act like Castle doing this would be a surprise.  

 

So I guess my question is for you (and others) why would something you were supposed to feel make you not like the episode?

 

Well, for me it didn't make me not like the episode, it just made me not like Esposito.

[Elysium1973]

I wish the writing was better at giving them more romantic moments, but I don't have a problem with the ones we get.  I also think they do look at each other like they love each other.  Or at least Beckett looks at him like she loves him and Castle looks at her he loves her on days Nathan isn't phoning it in. Mileage varies, obviously.

@KaveDweller this made my day. So true.

That said I'm in 100,000% full agreement with @sweettooth about B/B. My theory is that their off screen closeness really helps with what we see on scene. Brennan lovingly taking off Booth's shirt to make love to him after the trauma he went through in prison is a perfect example. The day we see that on Castle (and no, shudder, not strip poker where he takes his pants off and leaves his shirt on) is the day the tumblr explodes.

[Samantha84]

This episode was plot driven as opposed to character driven. Marlowe and Co. were gonna tell this story no matter how and what impact it had on their characters. 

Also? That last Castle/Beckett scene lacked intimacy! Not sex ..intimacy. Again, Stana Katic was giving emotions as Beckett but Nathan as Castle was not. That may be a choice or direction to convey that Castle is off b/c of what's happened. If so, show is .. give as an idea of that instead of leaving it up to your audience to figure out if it's a direction choice or your leading man being bored and lacking. JMHO. 

[oberon55]

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

 

A writer friend once told me "you can't like the character's all the time, there will be times you want to punch them"

 

I think it only becomes an issue when the dislike starts to make them a "bad character"

 

Like Kimmie Gibbler.

 

I have no problem with him being a dislikable asshole. The problem I do have is that the characters on the show ignore his behavior. Castle will never confront him about any of it. He'll just keep coming back grinning & letting him use his car. As many times as he has insulted, belittled and doubted Castle how in the hell could he actually think Castle would name him his best man? If I was Castle I'd hate his guts by now. It makes Castle seem like the poor fat kid that will take anything just to be in the group.

[Tripp]

To answer your question halwideman, it does make me hate Esposito but I hate the episode for it because while at times Esposito can be a dick, I really think this is OCC for him.  I mean at least this extreme.  Now as time goes on and more evidence piles up, then I'd expect Esposito be the first to voice his suspicions.  But that 5 seconds of "Wait, Castle dropped it off?  OMG he's behind this!" seemed just like the writers wanted it to be clear with the subtlety hammer that they are heading down this road of doubt.  Personally I think Gates would have been better in this role:  She doesn't have the long relationship with Castle and would be able to step back and look at this more cynically.

[Tripp]

I have no problem with him being a dislikable asshole. The problem I do have is that the characters on the show ignore his behavior. Castle will never confront him about any of it. He'll just keep coming back grinning & letting him use his car. As many times as he has insulted, belittled and doubted Castle how in the hell could he actually think Castle would name him his best man? If I was Castle I'd hate his guts by now. It makes Castle seem like the poor fat kid that will take anything just to be in the group.

Actually I think it makes Castle seem like he's never really accepted as a valuable member of the team.  And yes, he should tell Esposito the next time he wants ANYTHING from him, he can kiss his ass.

[Tripp]

I don't think it is OCC.

He's a bad friend sure...but he has done this before.

 

I agree though that Gates would have been a better choice. 

He did it before in Probable Cause (but I still think he took a few minutes before making it clear) and then it was proven Castle DIDN'T do the crime which should have taught Esposito that things are not always what they appear.  

 

Oh so thats something else we can add to Esposito's list: bad friend, dick, and now idiot.

[KaveDweller]

The problem I do have is that the characters on the show ignore his behavior. Castle will never confront him about any of it. He'll just keep coming back grinning & letting him use his car. As many times as he has insulted, belittled and doubted Castle how in the hell could he actually think Castle would name him his best man? If I was Castle I'd hate his guts by now.

 

I really wish someone would call Esposito (and Ryan) out on how they always ask to borrow Castle's Ferrari every time he asks for even a small favor.  I think it's supposed to be funny, but it's getting kind of old.  I actually think it would be nice if Kate was the one to do it or to at least say something to Castle about it (although that wouldn't have worked in this episode).

 

Character's can be unlikable but still be enjoyable to watch (for example half the characters on Scandal).  Espo doesn't fit that category.  Neither does Alexis, but she didn't bother me in this episode.

 

 

 

But that 5 seconds of "Wait, Castle dropped it off?  OMG he's behind this!" seemed just like the writers wanted it to be clear with the subtlety hammer that they are heading down this road of doubt.

 

Well, these are detectives that need Castle's help to solve their cases.  If Castle had been around, he would have been all, "I don't care about the evidence. The story doesn't make sense?"  Maybe Castle needs to visit the writers' room too.

 

Like I end everything post I make about actors. They are douche bags. Every last one.

 

I don't want to believe that....

Edited October 2, 2014 by KaveDweller

[oberon55]

Well the one issue with that is the characters can only deal with what THEY know. 

We know what Espo said. But Castle does not.

 

But his gun toting junkyard tackling thumbbreaking fiancee is standing right there listening to it. Where the hell is her defense of the man she loves.

[sinkwriter]

 

Like I end every post I make about actors. They are douche bags. Every last one.

 

Not true. There are exceptions to every rule and that goes for actors as well. I've been involved in music theatre and other forms of performance for years, and some of my best friends have been actors. Creative people can be so much fun and open to the most marvelous conversations.

 

And TJ Thyne from Bones is definitely an exception to your overly general rule. He's an absolute sweetheart, on screen and off. He even makes time out of his day to chat online with his fans. I know because I've been part of those chats. And we're not talking just a few minutes. We're talking one, two, sometimes three hours when he has the time. He answers everyone's questions (so long as they remain appropriate and not too too personal), he's genuinely interested in meeting everyone and hearing about their experiences, he's enthusiastic about his job and pretty much everything about life, the man is positivity personified. He is definitely not a douche bag.

[WendyCR72]

Let's get back to discussing the episode. The talk of which actors are unpleasant does not belong in this thread.

[sinkwriter]

Removed quoted comment and my reply to it. - Sinkwriter

Anyway... back to this episode! I think the writers are losing their connection to the characters and believable emotions. I was cool with Castle being a bit emotionally numb in this episode, mainly because he'd been unconscious and after waking up and hearing about all the things that had happened, I would imagine he's pretty shell-shocked. But I do wish so much that we'd seen him with his daughter, or his mother. I do wish that we'd seen some emotionally connective scenes between Beckett and Alexis, or Beckett and Martha, besides those fleeting impersonal moments. I just think there was something missing throughout the entire episode that could have made it so much better. 

 

Oops! I was typing as Wendy wrote her message. Apologies, Wendy. I've removed my comments that furthered the conversation that veered off-topic.

Edited October 2, 2014 by sinkwriter

[Cyranetta]

There's one interpretation where I would be damn glad that the final scene between Beckett and Castle was as low-key as it was. I don't think it's been entirely ruled out that the Castle that was picked up in the "pimped-out dinghy" isn't a 3XK/Nieman creation. (For all the talk of DNA being thrown around, there was no definitive statement that the DNA of original Castle was compared to the Castle that appeared). As long as that possibility hasn't been ruled out I will be glad of a lack of overt intimacy because that would be truly skeevy (although well in line with a "new mythology"). Even a Castle that had been brainwashed would make intimacy a dicey issue -- it brings up the question of just what is identity, and how do you separate the core of a person to love from the changes that alter that person.

[KaveDweller]

I don't know what's wrong with me then, because I thought that final scene did show intimacy between them.  It was slightly off because of the whole missing two months, but IMO it still showed a connection/intimacy.

 

If they go the clone/double route I may stop watching.  And I never stop watching shows.  

[FlickerToAFlame]

I also thought the end scene worked. It's one of the only times we've actually seen them talk real feelings for more than a second. And Beckett really seemed conflicted before finally falling into the hug.

Edited October 2, 2014 by FlickerToAFlame

[Ticketyboo23]

This episode was always supposed to be Beckett-centric though, because it was about searching for Castle.  If we saw his perspective, the search would be boring.  I think next week when Castle starts looking into what happened, we'll get to be more about Castle. 

She didn't actually believe he was involved just from the video though.  She considered it, but then said to Alexis and Martha that she didn't believe he would just walk away.  I don't think it's wrong of her to consider the possibility that she didn't know something that was going on.  It was after they found the tent and the witness that she started to really question things.  I think that after two months of looking for him it's not unreasonable that finding evidence he could have called her anytime would make her break down a little.  Especially when she finally sees him and he's making jokes about the whole thing, and then the doctor says she doesn't think Castle really has amnesia.  I think Beckett really wanted to believe there had been some kind of trauma, but when she asks the doctor about that, the doctor doesn't really support that.

 

I also think it's interesting that people are giving Beckett flak for questioning him, when lots of people also think Castle is lying to her.

 

 

Just because someone criticizes NF doesn't mean the writers and directors get a pass.  They can all be bad at their jobs.

So they just ignore the bullet riddled boat, the dengue fever & the fact that Castle was shot in a different event from the boat (way to go with lack of concern for that nugget BTW Beckett) all of which completely contradict the idea Castle was camping out alone for 2 months. So no, I don't understand her doubts at all. I would have liked to have seen her argue in his defence. She could easily have refuted Espo's comments & I'm hoping the writer's are taking note as to how unpopular that character has become. Do not even get me started on the lazy plot device doctor. Any psychiatrist who has one short interview & starts telling people the patient is lying needs retraining. That was just bad writing.

As for NF I didn't see anyone who didn't like Castle's reaction criticise anyone else other than NF. The way I understand the process the actor gets the script, there is a read through when they discuss the direction they will take. When shooting they will do the take several times in different ways under the instruction of the director. Then the director, editor and producers decide which take goes in. Correct, no? As I pointed out before NF has taken flak before when it turned out to be a behind the scenes decision. Who knows what else didn't make the cut. It's not like he had much script to work with anyway. As I also said earlier there were more than a few bum notes from Beckett but Katic can't carry the can for that, she isn't in charge. But it's easier to shine when you have the writing & direction focusing the spotlight on you.

Beckett questioning him is "canon". Castle lying is not. Why would we start criticising him before we actually know? But in the end the criticism belongs to the writers & producers who have taken a really good female character & focused on her to the detriment of the other characters whilst turning her into a 10 a penny derivative tv cop. Who is self-absorbed to the level that you would start to question why the other half in this 'great romance' hasn't just kicked her to the kerb. Flying anvils of characters telling us she is 'extraordinary' doesn't batter me into believing it, just highlights that is exactly what she no longer is.

[371012]

It crossed my mind that perhaps Beckett wonders if he is lying because when the roles were reversed she WAS lying...the scene in Rise when he visits her in the hospital just wouldn't get out of my head during this hospital scene.  And, I have to say, Castle did NOT get dengue (sp?) fever in a mini tent in Gloucester, MA...and, that boat would have gone up to Nova Scotia on the gulf stream, not conveniently down close to NYC.  And, although there were still things people didn't like, it CERTAINLY was an improvement over the finale.  As I've felt the last several seasons, I keep watching in spite of the show currently being, IMHO, the kid in school who is the chronic underachiever with oh so much untapped potential.  Maybe this year...or not.  But it COULD be more than it's been recently.

[GeorgieNY]

No, I get that in general people don't mean they want they just want sex.  That's been a theme for a couple seasons now, and I totally get that and agree.  I was talking specifically about the final scene in this episode, where people were complaining about the scene seeming father/daughter.  I disagree and I'm not sure what more they could do in that specific scene.

 

.

I feel like Rick could have been more affectionate- not overly because it was awkward, but he could have stroked her hair to comfort her, or tilted her chin up to him when he said "we will find our way home." Or kissed her head, or looked at her.... It just felt so stage-ey and stilted, and not in the way it should have to convey the underlying tension and uncertainty. It felt like Castle only had one arm and it was around her shoulder, at least for me...and then add the layers of clothing/robes!

Just didn't feel like reunited lovers.

[Ticketyboo23]

Having now had a chance to review I think Castle feels on pretty shaky ground. He's been pretty much on the back foot defending himself & even if nobody has said it there was an undercurrent of blame & scepticism that he couldn't remember. No wonder he's pretty tentative. I can't decide if his passiveness is just same old doormat Castle or he has an inkling about what happened. Either way I don't remember a 'how are you feeling', 'I've missed you' or 'I love you' from Beckett. All of those were forthcoming from Castle. I think he was being pretty generous in the last scene.

[verdana]

"pimped-out dinghy"

Sorry this gets me every time, how the hell can you have a pimped out dingy? Only on Castle.

 

Just didn't feel like reunited lovers.

I agree they didn't and they could have easily done more to convey this as you suggested in your post above, it's little touches (literally) that make all the difference or a look or a glance held here and there. I felt very little intimacy in that scene and it's not about wanting them to look like they're about to make out or anything, I wasn't expecting that. Yet he's just there staring at the wall vacantly at the end I have no idea what's going on there (is it the script, the direction, the actor? I shouldn't have to play fill in the blanks) whilst she's distressed and looking for comfort. The problem is that whilst they were presumably trying to create a genuine feel of unease and uncertainty between them as a couple for the audience to pick up all I got was that it was weirdly staged and acted.

 

I mean at least this extreme.  Now as time goes on and more evidence piles up, then I'd expect Esposito be the first to voice his suspicions.  But that 5 seconds of "Wait, Castle dropped it off?  OMG he's behind this!" seemed just like the writers wanted it to be clear with the subtlety hammer that they are heading down this road of doubt.

I don't think anyone is wrong to be really pissed at Espo. I think we were supposed to be. I mean especially as the audience who is rooting for Castle who is a good guy...

So I guess my question is for you (and others) why would something you were supposed to feel make you not like the episode?

Unless I'm very off I don't think the goal of Espo's POV was for use to side with him.

I'm far more angry with the writers than Espo actually. Although I've been feeling ambivalent about him for quite some time and if they killed him off soon I'd been fine with it, I can do without hearing "yo Beckett!" and his pissy attitude towards Castle for no reason in almost every episode. Tripp's right Espo immediately rushing to condemn Castle is ridiculous,  there was no subtlety there at all and it was annoying that they honestly expected me to be that easily manipulated with their clunky plot devices. Each character had to behave in a certain way to adhere to the story they wanted to tell come hell or high water which gave the entire episode this generally weird vibe. 

 

Driven was for me a perfect example of a plot driving the characters which is not what should happen. The reviewer babygray was correct that if you realise that its plot driven and the writers agenda then you can start to understand why everyone is behaving as they are in each scene. So Espo's exaggerated doubting behaviour towards Castle is exactly what it needs to be. It's clunky and obvious and as far removed from organic storytelling as it's possible to get. It wouldn't bother me quite so much if the writers were honest and upfront about what they're doing and stopped trying to persuade me any of this story is truly organic and character driven.  

Edited October 2, 2014 by verdana

[KaveDweller]

So they just ignore the bullet riddled boat, the dengue fever & the fact that Castle was shot in a different event from the boat (way to go with lack of concern for that nugget BTW Beckett) all of which completely contradict the idea Castle was camping out alone for 2 months. So no, I don't understand her doubts at all. I would have liked to have seen her argue in his defence. She could easily have refuted Espo's comments & I'm hoping the writer's are taking note as to how unpopular that character has become. Do not even get me started on the lazy plot device doctor. Any psychiatrist who has one short interview & starts telling people the patient is lying needs retraining. That was just bad writing.

 

As for NF I didn't see anyone who didn't like Castle's reaction criticise anyone else other than NF. The way I understand the process the actor gets the script, there is a read through when they discuss the direction they will take.

 

The thing is, even if they know Castle was in the boat that got shot at, and exposed to dengue fever, before that it appears that he was laying around not contacting them.  So, I don't think she is ignoring that part, she is just focusing on the fact (or the appearance of fact) that he could have easily called her and she got stuck on the feeling of betrayal from that.  It's not being a good cop, it's an emotional reaction.  Now, Ryan and Esposito should be more neutral and be telling her to look at the whole picture.  But they wanted to go with OOC drama instead.

 

Yes, the doctor was terrible for saying she thought Castle was lying, but she did say that and it was clearly just the opposite of what Beckett was hoping to hear.

 

I do think it would be nice to see her defending him though (like she was doing with the FBI guy at the beginning).  Maybe next week, since it seems like Espo is still not convinced about the whole thing?

 

I think I read that they don't do read throughs, or even really rehearse on Castle.  They just go right to filming.  And yes, the script plays a big part and the writers/directors tell the cast how to play things.  But this is not the only episode where Nathan has shown a lack of emotion, so if it is happening with multiple directors and multiple storylines, but not with multiple cast members, I don't think it is unfair to criticize the actor.

[verdana]

I think I read that they don't do read throughs, or even really rehearse on Castle.  They just go right to filming.  And yes, the script plays a big part and the writers/directors tell the cast how to play things.  But this is not the only episode where Nathan has shown a lack of emotion, so if it is happening with multiple directors and multiple storylines, but not with multiple cast members, I don't think it is unfair to criticize the actor.

That makes sense because they're working on such an insane tight schedule already. As for the criticism, I don't think it's unfair to criticise or at least be willing to discuss the matter in a responsible way, surely he is a factor in the equation.  There have indeed been more than a few occasions when fans have brought this subject up and not just on here.

 

I have no idea what is going on and who is to blame for some of the rather flat performances. All I know is that something feels off and it makes the scenes much less than they could be that's the key thing. I just want someone to do something about the problem and fix it. 

Edited October 2, 2014 by verdana

[St. Claire]

The more I think about the whole underlying storyline, the more irritated I become with everyone at the precinct being ready to accept the idea that Rick would fake a horrid accident and run away to live in a nasty tent for two months. This man will go to the other end of the world to save his daughter, and everyone saw that devotion, so they have to know he could not bring himself to torture Alexis that way. If, by some freakish turn of events, he wanted to bail on the wedding, he'd have done so when all of the other manufactured obstacles of last season were thrown his way. Every one of them (except maybe Gates) has been in a situation where they were innocent of whatever crazy-pants accusation seemed to be backed up by a pile of evidence, and Castle stuck by them all. Itty bitty tent by the water? Not his style at all. When has Rick ever NOT been willing to use his money for creature comforts? 

 

I swear, I'm going to start DVRing the episodes and binge watching after a few drinks; maybe it will all make sense that way.

[oberon55]

The thing is, even if they know Castle was in the boat that got shot at, and exposed to dengue fever, before that it appears that he was laying around not contacting them.  So, I don't think she is ignoring that part, she is just focusing on the fact (or the appearance of fact) that he could have easily called her and she got stuck on the feeling of betrayal from that.  It's not being a good cop, it's an emotional reaction.  Now, Ryan and Esposito should be more neutral and be telling her to look at the whole picture.  But they wanted to go with OOC drama instead

 

This is the way they wrote it so it has to play that way. They wanted to emphasize how the whole team doubted Castle. To me the whole thing rang false. The whole situation with Castle is just silly. How anybody could believe Castle (the metro sexual who loves the comforts of life) would voluntarily stay in a pup tent for 2 months just boggles the mind. I guess they laid the groundwork for this in the finale. It would take somebody that is so stupid that she believes weddings in Las Vegas are fake to swallow this horseshit.

[KaveDweller]

This is the way they wrote it so it has to play that way. They wanted to emphasize how the whole team doubted Castle. To me the whole thing rang false. The whole situation with Castle is just silly.

 

They seem to like that storyline, they did it with Probably Cause.  Marlowe kept saying the same "how well do they really know Castle?" line then too.

 

It would take somebody that is so stupid that she believes weddings in Las Vegas are fake to swallow this horseshit.

 

Okay, that made me laugh so hard I remembered why I shouldn't read this forum at work.  Luckily my closest colleague is not at her desk.

 

Cause yeah, why didn't they have him hiding out someplace a little more believable then a tent? Castle should have said something about that instead of just talking about his never mentioned tsunami fear.  Just like he should have mentioned that his beach house appears to be up on a cliff or something.

[turnitwayup]

Cause yeah, why didn't they have him hiding out someplace a little more believable then a tent? Castle should have said something about that instead of just talking about his never mentioned tsunami fear. Just like he should have mentioned that his beach house appears to be up on a cliff or something.

Ikr? It's one thing to take Alexis, Ashley and his parents for a camping/hiking weekend but to live there for 2 weeks. Lol. It would make more sense if he was living in the trailer, cabin or something more similar as a lay low place than a tent off the water. So it wasn't me that his "inland" beach house looks to be off a cliff in the 2 eps we saw.

I agree with the above posters who thought Gates would've been better to cause doubt. She seems to rotate between tolerance, annoyance, and angryness towards Castle in any given ep. Plus she had like 3-5 lines then disappeared for the rest of the ep.

Tho this ep probably needed to be a 2 parter because the pacing was off. Even Alexis's kidnapping played over 2 eps from kidnapping to arrival home and it was a much shorter timeframe than Castle's disappearance. I think the shot of Castle in the dingy could've been the reveal at the end of the premier ep would bring people back for the 2nd ep.

Edited October 2, 2014 by turnitwayup

[KaveDweller]

And who stood by ALL of them the entire time they were being accused?

 

To be fair, when Kate was a suspect in Simmons murder, I think Castle thought she may have done it for a minute....he went and asked her about it.  And in After the Storm he thought she went off to kill Bracken.  He didn't just assume she was innocent.

 

And if the love of my life had been that sick, and I believed in him, I certainly would be the loving almost wife first, cop second. Like they could have had a small, affectionate scene then have her look him in the eyes and say, "There's something we need to talk about."

 

I actually did like the first moment when Kate saw Castle, while he was still asleep.  That was very loving and sweet, and I wish we'd had a little more time before Alexis and Martha came in.  I got the impression that she was trying to hold back when he was first awake, but then he made that joke about ruining their wedding plans and she kind of lost it.

 

The fact that she believed the story MORE after seeing that tent just makes her less credible.

 

She saw that tuxedo and that was just it for her.  That's why I think it was an emotional reaction and not a logical one.  Cause if he really ran out on her, why would he keep the tux as a souvenir? 

 

Or maybe the writers were just high when they wrote this.

Edited October 2, 2014 by KaveDweller

[Ticketyboo23]

The thing is, even if they know Castle was in the boat that got shot at, and exposed to dengue fever, before that it appears that he was laying around not contacting them. So, I don't think she is ignoring that part, she is just focusing on the fact (or the appearance of fact) that he could have easily called her and she got stuck on the feeling of betrayal from that. It's not being a good cop, it's an emotional reaction. Now, Ryan and Esposito should be more neutral and be telling her to look at the whole picture. But they wanted to go with OOC drama instead.

Yes, the doctor was terrible for saying she thought Castle was lying, but she did say that and it was clearly just the opposite of what Beckett was hoping to hear.

I do think it would be nice to see her defending him though (like she was doing with the FBI guy at the beginning). Maybe next week, since it seems like Espo is still not convinced about the whole thing

But this is not the only episode where Nathan has shown a lack of emotion, so if it is happening with multiple directors and multiple storylines, but not with multiple cast members, I don't think it is unfair to criticize the actor.

Do we know he spent any time at the camp site? Yes his fingerprints etc were there but it was his stuff. The only witness to that was the fake land owner who was clearly involved so hardly credible. Castle was adamant he wouldn't have chosen that spot. Isn't it equally plausible the camp was staged knowing that if/when Castle was found the boat would lead them to that area. Are we supposed to believe those three ever solved a case without Castle if they are ready to run with such a flimsy inconsistent story.

As for NF we've seen him produce some great moments when he actually gets something to work with, unfortunately it doesn't happen often as they are too busy fawning over Beckett. If he's bored & disinterested who could blame him. His recent interviews about wanting to get back to the Castle of old scream that and as he used to enjoy making Castle the loser it shows how far they have stooped. Having said that though, boredom & lack of rehearsals aside I find it hard to imagine the director looking for more 'passion' whatever from the performance & then just accepting what NF decides to give them. I think if NF had anywhere near as much control as some folks think he has, we'd have a better show.

Ps the doctor bit was sloppy lazy writing. Unrealistic and to hammer home a ridiculously weak plot twist. If your plot needs that level of support, get a new plot.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Ticketyboo23

[sinkwriter]

 

Or maybe the writers were just high when they wrote this.

 

Hmmmmmmm... you may be onto something.  *GRIN*

[KaveDweller]

Do we know he spent any time at the camp site?

 

No, I don't think we're supposed to be believe he spent any time there at all.  Just that he ended up in the boat that was once docked there.

 

As for NF we've seen him produce some great moments when he actually gets something to work with, unfortunately it doesn't happen often as they are too busy fawning over Beckett. If he's bored & disinterested who could blame him.

 

I can blame him.  He should do his job whether he's bored or not, that's what he gets paid for.  I know the writing isn't the best on this show, but he gets a lot of good opportunities that he ignores.  I'm not attacking the guy personally, but I've definitely been disappointed in his performances.  Whether that's because he's incapable or too bored to bother doesn't matter to me.