Season Two: Goren's Sherlock and Eames' Watson Meet Their Moriarty [Regrettably?]

[mahree]

On 3/12/2017 at 1:09 AM, WendyCR72 said:

On 3/10/2017 at 6:45 PM, Xeliou66 said:

One thing that I remember reading about that episode that I always found interesting is that the 2 actors who played Stan and Roger had played father and son in a movie 20 years before, I wonder if the casting was intentional. 

No kidding? Do you know the name of the movie?

Breaking Away.  Classic.  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078902/

[WendyCR72]

13 hours ago, mahree said:

Breaking Away.  Classic.  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078902/

Thanks, @mahree! Ironically, I've heard of this movie, at least by title, but I had no idea they were in it. The things one learns at PTV!  :-)

[WendyCR72]

"Baggage" and "Suite Sorrow" were on USA in the dead of night (couldn't sleep). I have already said how much I liked the whole "Alex, Queen of Sheba" and "Bob the Shipping Magnate" scene in "Baggage" and the exchange between Alex and the woman in that waiting room for the Botox shots in "Suite Sorrow". (Still do!)

But - and I can never figure this out - did Hal Linden's character off the wife? Is that why Goren wanted Julie to confront her father? (Which, naturally, backfired.) The perp on that episode always seemed never properly spelled out there, to me.

[Xeliou66]

In Suite Sorrow, the daughter offed the wife, the dad manipulated and played her to get her to do it. That much was pretty clear to me. The daughter was emotionally unstable and the dad used that to upset her enough to off the wife, the daughter realized what he had done and killed him at the end. 

[Maherjunkie]

Breaking Away!  There it was bikes, here it was cars.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Maherjunkie

[WendyCR72]

"Dead" is airing at 1:00 a.m. with creepy Harry Rowan! The "evil twin" to Captain Joe Hannah's "good twin". Jim Gaffigan did wimpy mortuary cousin well, though. And, like Sanders, he would pop up again in "Smile" as one of the FDA people during the investigation of the counterfeit poison mouthwash in S7.

I could swear I have also seen the actress who played Susan Rowan elsewhere but can't place her.

All I know is, if I found out hubby was putting dead bodies in the family freezer, I'd let him rot and swing over to Home Depot ASAP so the ice cream doesn't taste like eau de corpse!

[WendyCR72]

As most everyone knows, I hate Nicole. But even I'll admit "Anti-Thesis", her intro, was a good episode. Who knew it would just be the first of many scrapes she'd walk away from?

And I still love the shoe store scene with G/E as the yuppie couple. That's one thing I do like about the Mothership's offshoots: They got to use humor every now and then.

[wknt3]

On 4/16/2017 at 3:09 PM, WendyCR72 said:

As most everyone knows, I hate Nicole. But even I'll admit "Anti-Thesis", her intro, was a good episode. Who knew it would just be the first of many scrapes she'd walk away from?

It was a good episode and a nice change of pace having the perp get away with it. My problem with the character was overuse. I don't think Goren needed a Moriarty, but if they wanted to go that way they should have kept it to maybe 3 appearances and avoided diminishing returns.

Quote

And I still love the shoe store scene with G/E as the yuppie couple. That's one thing I do like about the Mothership's offshoots: They got to use humor every now and then.

The Mothership wasn't without humor. Besides all of the wisecracks there were the occasional witnesses and perps whose antics provided comic relief. And many of the openers were little comedic gems where they played NYC stereotypes for laughs until they discovered the body. And sometimes even after...

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

 

The Mothership wasn't without humor. Besides all of the wisecracks there were the occasional witnesses and perps whose antics provided comic relief. And many of the openers were little comedic gems where they played NYC stereotypes for laughs until they discovered the body. And sometimes even after...

Seriously! Even from its pilot, "Prescription for Death," when the defense attorney is being an ASSHOLE, and keeps asking isn't it possible x,y or z could have killed the victim to the Coroner, played by the wonderful Daniel Benzali. Benzali's response NEVER fails to make me ???when he says "It's possible that Death Rays from Mars could have killed her, but I don't think so."

OH SNAP!!!!

[Xeliou66]

I agree, the mothership had a lot of small, humorous dialogue between characters, Briscoe and Schiff especially had great lines. I actually think CI has the least amount of humor of the L&O shows, SVU had plenty of humor with Munch, Fin and now Barba but CI never had all that much, it was always very plot driven and serious, not a whole lot of humorous parts. Sometimes there were humorous situations with Goren's antics and unusual behavior and some Goren and Eames interviews were pretty humorous, Carver and Deakins had some good lines as well, I think that the show became a lot less humorous after season 5, it already had the least humor of any of the L&O's but after season 5 it became very soapy and more depressing with the endless personal crap and the asshole Ross replacing Deakins

[WendyCR72]

On 4/17/2017 at 7:06 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Seriously! Even from its pilot, "Prescription for Death," when the defense attorney is being an ASSHOLE, and keeps asking isn't it possible x,y or z could have killed the victim to the Coroner, played by the wonderful Daniel Benzali. Benzali's response NEVER fails to make me ???when he says "It's possible that Death Rays from Mars could have killed her, but I don't think so."

OH SNAP!!!!

That was Daniel Benzali? How the hell did I never connect that? Aren't I stupid... (I wonder if Rodgers appeared because Benzali had another gig?) As for the Mothership, I'll concede Lennie was King of The One-Liner. (God, I miss Jerry Orbach!) But I think all 3 franchise shows had a ratio of lots of sturm und drang for every crumb of comedy.

In terms of latter CI, it was darker. But I found "Vanishing Act" in S7 a nice change of pace and liked "Depths" from that season, too. They stand out since the majority was on the darker side, at least to me.

[Xeliou66]

Yeah CI was darker, there were some funny moments but overall it was the darkest L&O show with its focus on the psyche and motives of the killers. L&O and SVU had more funny lines form characters, CI never really had that, it's humor was more of Goren's antics and behaviors and some funny interviews between suspects/witnesses and Goren and Eames. Deakins and Carver sometimes added humorous moments to lighten the darkness of the show, that's one reason why when they left the show became much worse. The show became a complete soap opera in season 6, and there was no humor, and that's one reason season 9 was so bad was the characters were so flat and had no personality. Season 10 seemed to be a return to the quality of 1-5, I wish it hadn't been canceled when it finally became strong again. 

[WendyCR72]

Speaking of S2, WE is in that season during the late-night airings. "Malignant" was on last night among the episodes, and I still feel so sorry for the old guy who assisted his wife in her suicide with the cancer drugs because Halliwell tampered with them and she ended up becoming terminal when she may have lived if she got the correct dosage. I did like that G/E did some fancy side stepping in working that case so the guy didn't end up in prison himself.

(I know the actress, Deirdre Lovejoy, who played his wife, Penny, returned in S8 as an FBI agent in "Revolution". And, most notably, was Heather Taffett/The Gravedigger on Bones.)

[Xeliou66]

I agree, I felt really sorry for that old man as well, I was glad they were able to keep him out of prison. 

That episode was very interesting, as it started out looking like something totally different with the shooting of the truck drivers and the robbery, and then it turned into the scam with Halliwell diluting the drugs. Halliwell was a phony, weak scumbag and I also hated the reverend of the church, he was a greedy piece of shit and if it wasn't for him I don't think Halliwell would've done what he did. 

[Maherjunkie]

The wife was no prize either.  I love it when Bobby sets off the sprinkers.

[Xeliou66]

Agreed, Halliwell's wife was a bitch as well. Not many likable characters in that episode. There were some great Goren moments in that episode, such as when he climbed into the backyard ring and the sprinkler scene. 

[WendyCR72]

21 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed, Halliwell's wife was a bitch as well. Not many likable characters in that episode. There were some great Goren moments in that episode, such as when he climbed into the backyard ring and the sprinkler scene. 

I liked both of the scenes you mentioned, too. Goren seemed inordinately happy about "The Flying Helicopter" wrestling move. Also liked the scene where Alex pretended to need help with grabbing something from a high shelf at the pharmacy before she and Goren arrested that kid for stealing some of the medication. Just the way he was grabbed, thrown down, and cuffed just seemed like bing, bang, boom there.

But I did like the way he and Eames seemed to tread lightly with the widower, as I said. I will say the guy at that nursing home stealing medicine may have been wrong in the legal sense, but as Alex said, it wasn't immoral. Just too bad that batch of medication just caused more harm.

[WendyCR72]

On 4/19/2017 at 10:50 PM, Maherjunkie said:

The wife was no prize either.  I love it when Bobby sets off the sprinkers.

Oh, she was a bitch. But then I'm used to that from this actress elsewhere, so...  :-)  She must be typecast. LOL! I did like, when Bobby first jumped on that counter to check the sprinkler, how Eames was so blasé about it. "Oh, he does this all the time..."

[WendyCR72]

The whole thing with Nicole passing herself off as a professor in "Anti-Thesis" reminds me of a real news story a few years back where a teen posed as a doctor! Much more disturbing when it happens in real life!

But I wonder if ol' Nicole's students got their credit once it was revealed that she was a fraud?  :-P  Yes, I wonder about the strangest things. I know.

[Maherjunkie]

Probably incompletes.

[wknt3]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

But I wonder if ol' Nicole's students got their credit once it was revealed that she was a fraud?  :-P  Yes, I wonder about the strangest things. I know.

It was revealed during the semester IIRC? Before grades were done? Haven't seen it in some time. If so they would probably bring in another faculty member to review any work and records and do the final grades. They would most likely be told off the record not to lower grades if it was at all defensible in order to avoid potential litigation. They would do an investigation with a very long report nobody reads and additional red tape added to the hiring process to verify credentials. This reminds me of a conversation I had when I worked at a university with one of our lawyers wondering just how large and how busy the General Counsel's office at Hudson University was with all the internal investigations and wrongful death lawsuits...

[WendyCR72]

On 5/2/2017 at 6:53 PM, wknt3 said:

This reminds me of a conversation I had when I worked at a university with one of our lawyers wondering just how large and how busy the General Counsel's office at Hudson University was with all the internal investigations and wrongful death lawsuits...

 

Hee. I once said Hudson University was a portal to hell. Between all 3 shows, I strongly still believe that. Nicole being a faux professor makes it somehow fitting.

[Vella]

I re-watched Person of Interest the other day, and a couple of things struck me that either I had forgotten or didn't realize the first time watching.  Firstly, I love seeing the subtle, but clear ways Eames disagrees with Goren, KE did SO MUCH with her reaction shots to Goren going further off track.  Even when he stubbornly starts to insist Croyden fit the profile, I love her choice of just quietly but firmly telling Bobby he didn't listen. She doesn't even say that he was wrong or that he screwed up, but rather that he didn't listen. And the turmoil in Goren after she leaves the room?  Oof.  He was wrong, he let himself be blinded and prejudiced, he let down Eames and the squad and he still doesn't quite get WHAT actually happened.

Which brings up Nicole. What was neat was that I actually forgot this was a Nicole episode and so, despite the hints that SOMETHING more was going on, nothing clicked into place until she showed up at the restaurant, and then it's "ah ha! Of course, it was Nicole."  Most other shows would go overboard, making it SO clear who's behind it, but I love they didn't do that here. Even Goren hasn't clued into Nicole being responsible until she shows up. What I find amusing is that Nicole probably would have gotten away with it. Nobody suspected her, not even a bit.  And then she just HAD to show up at the restaurant and by doing that she reveals her hand and completely screws herself over. 

Finally, I love the team corralling and Deakins/Carver totally being on board. Yay team! The best was Goren admitting to Eames, shamefully, that he was played. In the interrogation room, in the dark, looking at the mirror. He could have told the team, but it's Eames he confesses to, because of course, it is her forgiveness/strength that he needs.  I get the show runners were trying to build up Goren/Nicole as arch rivals, but really they ended up showcasing the awesomeness of Goren/Eames.

[WendyCR72]

14 hours ago, Vella said:

Finally, I love the team corralling and Deakins/Carver totally being on board. Yay team! The best was Goren admitting to Eames, shamefully, that he was played. In the interrogation room, in the dark, looking at the mirror. He could have told the team, but it's Eames he confesses to, because of course, it is her forgiveness/strength that he needs.  I get the show runners were trying to build up Goren/Nicole as arch rivals, but really they ended up showcasing the awesomeness of Goren/Eames.

Agreed with all of this. I've made no secret I hate Nicole, but I think that's intentional, so...  :-)  Still, I find the dynamic Goren has with both women fascinating. Nicole is the devil on one shoulder while Eames is the [snarky] angel on the other, and it's fascinating to watch VDO/Bobby fight his dark side when Nicole is afoot and to watch Eames steer Bobby back towards Bobby's version of "normal".

I know the franchise was, by and large, about justice and crime. But this is a big reason why I like CI so much: All the intricate personal symbolism.  :-)

[WendyCR72]

So I'm aware that most episodes of the L&O franchise were "ripped from the headlines". But I came across this case in the Unsolved Mysteries forum about the murder of a young woman who worked her way through the ranks at Northwest Airlines. Apparently, she was a target of sexual harassment and the case somehow involved stolen credit cards.

Then it hit me: "Baggage" in Season 2 must have used this case. Sadly, it appears, unlike the fictional version, the real-life case has never been solved.

Here are some details about the real-life case:

Su Taraskiewicz murder case.

[Xeliou66]

Season 2 marathon on ION tonight, this season had some excellent episodes. Just saw Cuba Libre, that one was really good, very suspenseful and complex plot, Milt Winters and Dempsey Powers were fascinating criminals, I'm not sure which one I thought was the bigger villain although Dempsey was more manipulative. I liked how that episode used Carver and Deakins more than normal, I thought they both had fairly big roles. Also some humorous moments in that one, a bit more so than normal. 

Now on is Cold Comfort, a very bizarre but fascinating episode. One thing I always found weird about this one is how they never catch the hitwoman who actually committed the murder, nor do they really even mention trying to track her down. I thought that was weird. I also thought they didn't really have much of a case against Spencer Durning tying him to the murder, I don't know if they could've convicted him. 

[WendyCR72]

20 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I thought that was weird. I also thought they didn't really have much of a case against Spencer Durning tying him to the murder, I don't know if they could've convicted him. 

Maybe not, but I hope he went the way of Peter Kelmer from S1, convicted mainly 'cause the jury disliked him.  :-P

[Xeliou66]

On 10/2/2017 at 7:06 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Maybe not, but I hope he went the way of Peter Kelmer from S1, convicted mainly 'cause the jury disliked him.  :-P

The difference is is that there was actual evidence against Kelmer, nothing physical but a lot of circumstantial evidence against him : the fact that he throughly cleaned out his bathroom, repainted it and replaced the rugs right after his wife disappeared, the fact that he got his girlfriend to impersonate his missing wife as well as other odd behavior from him, the marital problems and infidelities, and of course his sudden plane flight right after his wife disappeared. So a lot of circumstantial evidence there. With Durning, there was nothing, just speculation, I think that a judge would've dismissed the case before it ever even reached trial unless the detectives did more digging and someone in Durning's circle flipped on him and tied him to the murder, I thought it was strange how the detectives never even talked about finding the hit woman who actually stabbed the victim. 

Cold Comfort was a pretty good episode but I thought it had some holes in it and the plot was almost too complex that the basics of the story got lost. And speaking of The Good Doctor, that's always been one of my favorite episodes, partially because we got to see the trial, I loved seeing Carver in court and seeing the case from start to finish. 

[WendyCR72]

21 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

And speaking of The Good Doctor, that's always been one of my favorite episodes, partially because we got to see the trial, I loved seeing Carver in court and seeing the case from start to finish. 

Carver's "Does this amuse you, doctor?" will never not be a great line.

Still love the blooper at the end when it says the trial was April 30th (the wife disappeared in January, which fit the winter garb early in the episode) yet when Carver, Goren, and Eames go outside after the verdict, everyone is still in winter garb with gloves, scarves, etc. Oops!  :-)  The end should have taken place in the courthouse.

But to bring it back to "Cold Comfort", maybe the folks who stole Kittredge's brain for Durning turned on him. He did have to hire someone to do that. So there was a trail, but a harder one.

Or...chalk it up to TV's "good triumphs over evil!" credo...even if it wouldn't in real life!

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Carver's "Does this amuse you, doctor?" will never not be a great line.

Still love the blooper at the end when it says the trial was April 30th (the wife disappeared in January, which fit the winter garb early in the episode) yet when Carver, Goren, and Eames go outside after the verdict, everyone is still in winter garb with gloves, scarves, etc. Oops!  :-)  The end should have taken place in the courthouse.

But to bring it back to "Cold Comfort", maybe the folks who stole Kittredge's brain for Durning turned on him. He did have to hire someone to do that. So there was a trail, but a harder one.

Or...chalk it up to TV's "good triumphs over evil!" credo...even if it wouldn't in real life!

Carver's entire cross examination of Kelmer was excellent, I wish we got to see more of Carver in court. There were a lot of epic moments in that episode, Goren's manipulation of Kelmer in the interrogation room and on the stand, there were some good scenes with Deakins in that one as well, all the characters were used well. 

Back to season 2 and Cold Comfort, yeah there were plenty of people in the conspiracy that could've flipped on Durning, and there might've been a trail of phone calls or paper to lead detectives to those people, but the episode didn't focus on that at all. It was all about the psychology, motivation and relationships of the characters. That's what CI specialized in and that's what made it unique, but I thought in that episode it was so focused on that part that it lost track of the basics of the case. 

[WendyCR72]

On 10/4/2017 at 4:38 AM, Xeliou66 said:

Back to season 2 and Cold Comfort, yeah there were plenty of people in the conspiracy that could've flipped on Durning, and there might've been a trail of phone calls or paper to lead detectives to those people, but the episode didn't focus on that at all. It was all about the psychology, motivation and relationships of the characters. That's what CI specialized in and that's what made it unique, but I thought in that episode it was so focused on that part that it lost track of the basics of the case. 

Good point. But I will say I think the actor that played the son with Early Alzheimer's was excellent. I read he teaches acting now rather than acts much himself, which is a shame.

[WendyCR72]

"Best Defense" is on MyNetwork now, the POS that tries to frame his wife because she is better at her job than he is. Makes me smile more at the start when their kid calls Daddy's office "yucky", though objectively, it did seem OTT.

[Xeliou66]

Peter Bonham was such a whiny douchebag, I wanted to punch him.

I really like that episode, it was one of the few to have the underused Carver in a central role, he played a crucial role in the case as well, as he unknowingly thwarted Bonham's plan when he pointed out that it was suspicious that the called called Bonham before calling 911. 

Also there were some memorable Goren moments, most notably his mimicking the gestures of the Bonham's friend that they were talking to. Nice use of Deakins as well in that one. One of my favorites from season 2.

[biakbiak]

I always get distracted because the D.A.'s office should have never rehired him after he apparently got out of jail and changed his name after he murdered the bondsman and fixed cases on the Mother ship, they should have stronger background checks!

[Xeliou66]

On 12/2/2017 at 0:39 AM, biakbiak said:

I always get distracted because the D.A.'s office should have never rehired him after he apparently got out of jail and changed his name after he murdered the bondsman and fixed cases on the Mother ship, they should have stronger background checks!

Yeah that was funny how they got the same actor to play a very similar character. Also funny how the actress playing his wife also played a recurring defense attorney on L&O, just with a different name.

[Xeliou66]

Tomorrow was on WE last night, one of CI’s most bizarre episodes but one of my favorites of the season. Such a fascinating and unique plot with the nannies reenacting the soap opera, I did think there should’ve been a bit more exploration of wat led to the murders, and how long exactly had Rick Davenport known about the nannies reenacting the soap opera, I assume he just figured it out when he started watching episodes of the soap opera, and then he let the nannies know and blackmailed them into having sex with him, and they killed him and his friend and they lured Amanda to the apartment because of their jealousy of her and their desire to get her fathers attention. At least that’s how I think it went down. The deleted scene with Skoda added a lot of clarity to the nannies motives and why they were reenacting the soap opera. 

The line where Carver tells Goren and Eames that they are “a few lima beans short of succotash” is funny as is Carver’s line that he lines up his shoes at night and Eames quips “why I am not surprised”. Also the awful defense attorney Stan Shatenstein was funny, he appeared in a couple of mothership episodes as well and he was completely incompetent. Not enough of Deakins in this episode though, he was always extremely underused.

[Sigmagirl]

Funny, that’s one of my least favorite episodes, though it does have flashes of brilliance, especially Bobby in his black T-shirt and the detectives making lunch for the little girl (tofu bologna ?) “Do you want to nibble on some niblets?” But now I think I have to go back and watch the deleted scene. Poor me!

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

Funny, that’s one of my least favorite episodes, though it does have flashes of brilliance, especially Bobby in his black T-shirt and the detectives making lunch for the little girl (tofu bologna ?) “Do you want to nibble on some niblets?” But now I think I have to go back and watch the deleted scene. Poor me!

Yeah the scene with Goren and the little girl was funny, as was the scene with Carver I mentioned. 

If you have the DVD, check out the deleted scenes, especially the one where the always awesome Skoda meets with Goren, Eames and Carver and gives his input on the nannies psyche and why they were reenacting the soap opera.

I’m curious, why is it one of your least favorite episodes? It was strange but it was very good IMO, I liked the complexity of the plot and the psychology of the killers, which is what CI specialized in.

[Sigmagirl]

I guess I just don’t feel anything for the girls. I like when the bad guy is either sympathetic or totally despicable. I didn’t find them that compelling.

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

I guess I just don’t feel anything for the girls. I like when the bad guy is either sympathetic or totally despicable. I didn’t find them that compelling.

I didn’t feel any sympathy for them either, but I did find them compelling. Their motives and psychology were very interesting IMO, I thought their whole scheme and how it unraveled was interesting to watch, reenacting a soap opera was a unique idea and how they executed and how the detectives discovered it was interesting. 

CI very rarely had sympathetic killers, plenty of completely evil ones though, after all they were dealing with the worst criminal offenders. 

[Sigmagirl]

Doreen in “Magnificat” is the most sympathetic to me. She intends to blow herself up with her four sons, which seems detestable, but learning about her husband’s treatment of her makes me want to kick his ass to the moon.

[Xeliou66]

6 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

Doreen in “Magnificat” is the most sympathetic to me. She intends to blow herself up with her four sons, which seems detestable, but learning about her husband’s treatment of her makes me want to kick his ass to the moon.

Most sympathetic to me was the Romanian boy who was adopted by the American family and the worthless mom told him that the dad was going to send him back to the abusive orphanage where he came from so he killed the dad. He was incredibly sympathetic. 

And yeah Paul Whitlock was an epic control freak asswipe. I was very disappointed in Carver for not trying to prosecute him for negligence since he knew his wife was suicidal and left her alone with the kids anyway, but I still didn’t find Doreen all that sympathetic, she still blew up her kids instead of trying to get away from Paul, no excuse for what she did.

[WendyCR72]

21 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

And yeah Paul Whitlock was an epic control freak asswipe. I was very disappointed in Carver for not trying to prosecute him for negligence since he knew his wife was suicidal and left her alone with the kids anyway

I was kind of all "WTF?!" about Carver's stance there, too. There are no legal ramifications for his neglect?! Somehow, I doubt that. And I didn't blame Alex and especially Bobby for being pissed there.

To bring this back to S2, it has been airing on WE late nights, and another case where Goren took an interest in the kid with a crappy parent, just like in "Magnificat" in S4 (where he brought in the children's advocate friend for the grandmother at the end there), was "Bright Boy" in S2. I liked that he actually read between the lines with Robbie regarding his suicidal drawings, etc. and tried to help him, including talking about baseball. Liked that he talked the father into the prison sentence to spare Robbie from knowing his seemingly-harmless lie ended up causing his dad to kill the social worker.

But in doing that, I always wondered what Robbie was told in terms of why his father killed Kim and why he was off to prison? Clearly, I think too much about some of these. But while CI did do some follow-up episodes and callbacks as the Mothership has, this was not one.

I would have liked to see how Robbie ended up. Maggie Coulter from S1, too.

I always thought Goren's interest in these kids was natural. Maybe because his own upbringing was likely so messed up. So he wanted to help these kids have better or whatever.

[Sigmagirl]

This one’s confounded me for a while. In “Zoonotic,” when they call Angel the prostitute to the hotel room to get information about Buzz the dead cop, both detectives flash their badges simultaneously, Bobby using his left hand and Alex her right. Bobby has his right hand up to his ear for a couple of seconds and it looks very much as if he’s making a phone call. But then he puts his hand down and there’s nothing in it. Am I missing something? I don’t think Bobby does anything by accident, but maybe I’m overthinking.

[tjsmom]

I've been bingeing on these lately and having a good time reading the posts!   I keep getting confused when reading here because so many of the episodes have names of other TV shows...Person of Interest, the Good Doctor, etc.  I guess I don't have a point, I just wanted to contribute!  Oh and I also hate Nicole, LOL.

Edited June 29, 2018 by tjsmom
Clarification

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, tjsmom said:

I've been bingeing on these lately and having a good time reading the posts!   I keep getting confused when reading here because so many of the episodes have names of other TV shows...Person of Interest, the Good Doctor, etc.  I guess I don't have a point, I just wanted to contribute!  Oh and I also hate Nicole, LOL.

Welcome to the board! You will find many other Nicole haters here, I can’t stand her storyline and I usually skip her episodes when they on on reruns. It was absurd how Nicole kept escaping, the plots became absolutely ridiculous in order for Nicole to keep on escaping justice, she basically had superpowers. And the whole Nicole/Goren relationship became incredibly soapy. 

[WendyCR72]

On 6/29/2018 at 3:29 PM, tjsmom said:

I've been bingeing on these lately and having a good time reading the posts!   I keep getting confused when reading here because so many of the episodes have names of other TV shows...Person of Interest, the Good Doctor, etc.  I guess I don't have a point, I just wanted to contribute!  Oh and I also hate Nicole, LOL.

Sorry I missed this post! Didn't mean to be rude. Welcome! And any Nicole hater is a friend of mine. LOL!

 

On 6/29/2018 at 10:48 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Welcome to the board! You will find many other Nicole haters here, I can’t stand her storyline and I usually skip her episodes when they on on reruns. It was absurd how Nicole kept escaping, the plots became absolutely ridiculous in order for Nicole to keep on escaping justice, she basically had superpowers. And the whole Nicole/Goren relationship became incredibly soapy. 

Had they left it at the end of "The Great Barrier", I would be fine with the Nicole/Goren dynamic. But, it's just as you said: She kept outsmarting the law and generally escaping, and it became beyond ridiculous. But, since she was supposedly the Moriarty to Goren's Sherlock and Eames' Watson, I guess she was necessary - to a point.

[wknt3]

On 6/29/2018 at 3:29 PM, tjsmom said:

I've been bingeing on these lately and having a good time reading the posts!   I keep getting confused when reading here because so many of the episodes have names of other TV shows...Person of Interest, the Good Doctor, etc.  I guess I don't have a point, I just wanted to contribute!  Oh and I also hate Nicole, LOL.

 

On 9/17/2018 at 11:29 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Sorry I missed this post! Didn't mean to be rude. Welcome! And any Nicole hater is a friend of mine. LOL!

 

Had they left it at the end of "The Great Barrier", I would be fine with the Nicole/Goren dynamic. But, it's just as you said: She kept outsmarting the law and generally escaping, and it became beyond ridiculous. But, since she was supposedly the Moriarty to Goren's Sherlock and Eames' Watson, I guess she was necessary - to a point.

True, but it should be noted that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle only did Moriarty stories. One of the problems with the many Sherlock Holmes adaptations and interpretations is that they feel compelled to overuse Moriarty (and Irene Adler, the other Holmes character that inspired Nicole Wallace) to the point it becomes a storytelling problem. I would think Dick Wolf of all people would know that when it becomes a problem dragging down the show you have to get rid of Moriarty...

[Xeliou66]

Had they gone with the ending where they killed Nicole at the end of Great Barrier, I would’ve been fine with the Nicole stuff, they still wouldn’t have been my favorite episodes but it wouldn’t have dragged the show down the way it did after Great Barrier. After Great Barrier, the Nicole stuff just became exceptionally ridiculous and extremely soapy, and really dragged down the show, and the conclusion to the storyline in Frame was beyond anti climatic and stupid. 

Nicole wasn’t at all necessary for the show, after all Moriarty only appeared as a main character in 1 Sherlock Holmes story, the show was at its best when it was dealing with cases that would be wrapped up within the hour, CI had an excellent, unique format, we get introduced to the victim and suspects in the cold open, but we’re not quite sure what’s going on, sometimes we know who did it, sometimes we don’t, and then the detectives unravel everything. The show worked best when it utilized that format, and when it got away from it it didn’t work nearly as well.

[WendyCR72]

On 9/19/2018 at 9:02 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Had they gone with the ending where they killed Nicole at the end of Great Barrier, I would’ve been fine with the Nicole stuff, they still wouldn’t have been my favorite episodes but it wouldn’t have dragged the show down the way it did after Great Barrier.

Yeah, that was bonus material on that season's DVD, the alternate ending to "Great Barrier". The thing is, the fans got to vote on the ending. NBC had viewers decide if Nicole lived or died and...you know the rest.

So while I agree with you, it's clear many more didn't. Why? Who knows.