S08.E08: Iron Tiger

[Mr. Sparkle]

The search for gas leads to an unexpected reunion that Madison uses as an opportunity.

Airs Sunday, October 29 on AMC and AMC+. 

[Iguessnot]

This is becoming dreadful. Madison really can't act.

[Iguessnot]

Why is Charlie wearing that ridiculous wig?

[Iguessnot]

Like Morgan, they are looking for corpses. Lousy plot point.

They tried so dialogue to tell us where everyone was during the 7 years, but it's still not clear. Too many characters floating all over the place with long time lines. And we still have people not knowing where Padre is.

[Brown44]

I guess the MCU ain't the only franchise that can't keep characters dead.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Brown44

[maystone]

Hi, Charlie!

.

.

.

.

Bye, Charlie.

[Brown44]

So they brought her back just to kill her off... again.

[Iguessnot]

Troy apparently has a child and blames Madison for the death of the mother. Anybody recall anything? 

[Mr. Sparkle]

10 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

This is becoming dreadful. Madison really can't act.

Seriously. She growled at one point. Almost laughable. 

6 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

Troy apparently has a child and blames Madison for the death of the mother. Anybody recall anything? 

Not at all, but after the Otto arc I stopped watching. I vaguely recall the whole thing. 

I go on and on, but this show is just awful, especially compared to the vastly superior Daryl Dixon show. Only 4 episodes left, I can't imagine where they're going with this. 

Are we never seeing Daniel and Luciana again? Do we care? 

[nitrofishblue]

All I can say is that the writers write really bad scripts and the actors are really bad. Madison sure doesn't seem to have learned a damn thing after 7 years. There she is pounding on the GLASS door trying to attract the walkers. Everyone is telling her to get away from the door. Guess what? she just stands there looking at the walkers like she had never seen what they do. The writing at times makes me want to puke it is so bad!!!

I am still looking for an answer to the question of where are they getting all this gas to keep all those gas guzzling vehicles running? Who is manufacturing all that ammo for their guns that never seem to run out. How are they generating the electricity to charge those walkie talkies? You would think that they have enough technology to provide this stuff, they would be doing a better job in rebuilding their communities.

[iMonrey]

Whatever happened to Luciana? Did we ever see her again after the reboot time jump? I honestly don't remember where the show left off with her. 

As for Charlie . . . I have a vague recollection that she stayed behind with some ragtag group of kids for awhile, but I do remember her having radiation poisoning and being at the tower. Speaking of which, I guess that whole "nuclear winter" thing is over now huh?

What I REALLY don't get (as opposed to things I just don't get) is why anyone believes Troy killed Alicia. We saw Alicia die, right? She was all alone, and anyone she sent off on the boats to Padre knows she died alone because they knew she was staying behind because she was about to die, from her bite wound. Basically her last episode was one long fever dream, don't tell me we sat through that for nothing. 

I'm also confused about what happened to Victor's husband and kid and the hotel community they had going. Did they all end up going to Padre? Why? Because Troy was a big threat?

Who are all these people Troy has working for him, where did he find them and why are they following him? There's zero backstory on this, we're just supposed to accept that he gathered all these minions somehow with no explanation.

[Mr. Sparkle]

2 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Speaking of which, I guess that whole "nuclear winter" thing is over now huh?

Yep. It all blew away, which is something that apparently happens. <cough>

4 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

We saw Alicia die, right?

IIRC, we never actually saw her die, which in this world means she could technically still be alive. Or something. <cough>

[Iguessnot]

3 hours ago, Superclam said:

Seriously. She growled at one point. Almost laughable. 

Not at all, but after the Otto arc I stopped watching. I vaguely recall the whole thing. 

I go on and on, but this show is just awful, especially compared to the vastly superior Daryl Dixon show. Only 4 episodes left, I can't imagine where they're going with this. 

Are we never seeing Daniel and Luciana again? Do we care? 

I kept watching, but there were some Native Americans they were in conflict with, but I don't remember.

I also thought Nick and Troy were together in some Beyond the Thunderdome scenario, but I truly can't remember.

[nodorothyparker]

I honestly forgot this was coming back to limp to a finish until I was flipping around last night.

Kim Dickens has been fine in pretty much everything else I've ever seen her in, but she's awful here. And Madison continues to be awful. We get that your grief over Junkie Nick is still somewhat fresh as you never knew for sure what had happened to him, but the rest of these people have had whole lives to move on and develop new relationships with each other since then. Look, I can barely bring myself to care about any of these people but Charlie had a point that she was 11, freaking 11 years old, when everything went down and adults who should have damn well known better didn't behave any better. But sure, bring her back from her supposedly terminal radiation poisoning just so Madison can guilt her into getting killed to permanently alienate a much better actor off the canvas in the character of Daniel.

Troy was actually one of the better characters from the early seasons when they were hanging with hardcore preppers who died the first second they were actually put to the test but I'm not really buying him as a big baddie who can get other baddies to follow him here. I have no idea what he's referring to about the mother of his kid either. The only thing I can honestly remember from that era of the show was the weird chemistry he had with both Madison and Junkie Nick where you were never quite sure if we were about to see the first mother-son menage a trois of the ZA. His "friendship" with Junkie Nick mostly seemed to consist of getting high on zombie brain without ever explaining how that was supposed to work.

I assume the previous episode explained Strand's overly complicated for the ZA hairstyle but I don't care enough to go back and look. As least the silly little great dictator hat is finally gone.

[Boofish]

I hate the way they have bought Madison back as Judge Judy fresh off her kidnapping children tour. 

They really overestimated Charlie's popularity by bringing her back so she could sacrifice herself to "honor Nick and Alicia." Please stop.

The worse part was Luciana, Strand and Daniel (especially) just standing there catching flies with their mouth while Madison led the resistance. Making the deal and speaking for everyone. REALLY. I hope her and that oxygen tank are gone for good.

Why can everyone find resources, make gas, find supplies and build a somewhat normal and thriving communities except Rick and his group? The last place they "built" was the prison. 

FTWD had so much "surplus" they were giving away supplies. An 8 year time jump and Luciana has outpost and apparently an unlimited amount of supplies. Strands tower was a thriving community until he started the nonsense with Morgan for "reasons." Never did find out why they were feuding. The hotel was almost as nice as the luxury high-rises they living in on The World Beyond. Even the nuns were fine on Daryl's spinoff. 

The mothership is to me still the best and most realistic considering what happened but it really sharpens my knife every time I watch a different variant of this show and no one has to grind acorns to feed their kid.

[Boofish]

41 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I assume the previous episode explained Strand's overly complicated for the ZA hairstyle but I don't care enough to go back and look. As least the silly little great dictator hat is finally gone.

Hi Black person here 😂. There is nothing complicated about Strand's hair. As a matter of fact, if the world went to shit, most black people would have very few hair care options and "loc'ing" your hair is the easiest. All you have to do is twist it one time, then when it starts to grow, twist the part that grows and in a few short months, the hair will "loc" in place. The post is still funny so I'm not trying to lecture or soapbox :). Michonne and Ezekiel technically have the same hairstyle but it's not as neat as Strands.  And considering he had food, water and electricity keeping his hair like that would not be that difficult. The worst black hairstyle in Walking Dead history actually belongs to Jacqui from season 1. HER HAIR was overly complicated - permed, styled and neat. Not possible if she has the standard grade of hair for most black women who are not mixed race (kinky) after camping in the woods for months.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk. Back to the snark.

[Crashcourse]

The problem I saw with Michonne's and Ezekiel's hair, and any type of long hair, is that it would be easy for a zombie to grab it and then start chomping.  If I lived in the ZA, I'd keep my hair short or put it up in a bun.  

Edited October 30, 2023 by Crashcourse

[Boofish]

24 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

The problem I saw with Michonne's and Ezekiel's hair, and any type of long hair, is that it would be easy for a zombie to grab it and then start chomping.  If I lived in the ZA, I'd keep my hair short or put it up in a bun.  

Agreed. Lots of people had too much hair. I didn't understand letting it flow freely like they were shooting a shampoo commercial.

[KeithJ]

Omg Charlie is back!  Omg Charlie is dead!

This show has gotten so bad and has gotten worse since Madison came back. Everything she touches / gets involved in turns to shit. 

I still don’t understand Madison’s oxygen issues.  She can go and go and not need it but sometimes she does nothing and needs it.  Then she kills all those walkers throwing her temper tantrum and she needs just one puff of oxygen and she’s good to go?  It just seems like a stupid plot device that’s really not doing anything.

Did Danay Garcia not want to do this season?  She was MIA before the break and now wet get her for a single episode and it feels like she’s gone for good now.

Edited October 31, 2023 by KeithJ

[iMonrey]

9 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I assume the previous episode explained Strand's overly complicated for the ZA hairstyle but I don't care enough to go back and look. As least the silly little great dictator hat is finally gone.

But now he's got a different hat!

2 hours ago, KeithJ said:

I still don’t understand Madison’s oxygen issues.  She can go and go and not need it but sometimes she does nothing and needs it.  Then she kills all those walkers throwing her temper tantrum and she needs just one puff of oxygen and she’s good to go?  It just seems like a stupid plot device that’s really not doing anything.

And have they ever explained why she needs the oxygen tank? If they did I must have missed it.

[Mr. Sparkle]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And have they ever explained why she needs the oxygen tank? If they did I must have missed it.

She was injured in the fire at the stadium. I knew as soon as she came back that the oxygen thing would be a plot point, to be used when they needed it. 

[BasilSeal]

On 10/30/2023 at 5:02 AM, Iguessnot said:

Troy apparently has a child and blames Madison for the death of the mother. Anybody recall anything? 

This is my reckon where this particular plot point is going, i may well be wide of the mark but look away now if you don't want to read what might happen etc.

when we last saw Alicia she was still alive, just, and was going back to the tower because she thought there might be some people there that she could help, or something.

I think Alicia goes back and meets up with Troy's group. In line with the show's current theme of giving people second chances she decides to help Junior Doctor Mengele, even though she knows troy is very probably a sociopath, and very actually a mass murderer.

I think troy is lying when he says he killed Alicia, i think he just says this to hurt Madison, i think Alicia is actually the mother of his child.

I do think Alicia will really be dead, not least of all because i doubt ADC will want to come back and be associated with this shit show. the fact they they've dug up nick, for some reason and have his ashes suggests that they intend to have some sort of closure for Madison, both her kids are dead but look, she has a magic grandchild, who represents hope for the future and continuance, Just hope she doesn't take after her dad.

There will be some contrivance to how Alicia died that means Troy blames Madison for her death, not entirely sure what that could be but non of this shit makes any sense at this stage so it could be anything.

anyway, that's my theory, i'll also suggest that the magic grandkid is what brings the disparate groups together to fight whatever ultimate threat they face in the series finale. I think this is a way to tease us with Alicia and make the show's most popular character, played by the biggest name, part of the last season without having to actually persuade ADC to turn up, or to have to pay her.

all in all i think this is a pretty dismal end to what was at the outset a promising series, there are quite a few people here deriding the 'awful acting' but Fear actually has a very strong cast of experienced actors Rubén Blades, Colman Domingo,  Danay Garcia even Kim dickens are all accomplished actors as are many others in the extensive ensemble cast, (like the criminally underused Peter Jacobson). it's not the actors' fault that the script is dogshit.

for the Nth time we had armed groups supposedly at loggerheads just standing around not doing anything, in the hotel they get the drop on Troy but just stand there and don't kill him, then troy gets the drop on them outside the hotel and returns the favour.

troy is a neo nazi mass murdering psychopath who literally killed people for shits and giggles and when he got thrown out of Prepper scout camp because even the white supremacist preppers found him a bit too killy. he took his revenge by leading a horde of walkers to the Ranch and killing everyone there, but Madison doesn't think to point this out to his new friends even though she couldn't wait to grass up Strand for using a different name. fair enough Troy's new mates might not have listened but i bet the audience could have done with a recap on who the fuck Troy was.

I really liked the early seasons of this show and i thought it was a better show than the original. I thought it was more grounded in reality with more realistic characters and it made a better job of articulating the key themes of the morality of survival, Now it's lost it's focus and has just become a confused badly written mess, just think of all the interesting supporting characters like Sarah, Wendel, the Rabbi, those kids they rescued, none of whom have had any sort of resolution to their stories, they've just sort of wandered off like the writers became bored and forgot about them, this is indicative of poor writing and their apparent writing strategy of just throwing as much shit at the wall as possible to see what sticks.

In short this show has jumped the shark, Strand is an interesting character but last season he was cos playing as Idi Amin and throwing people of the roof of his tower, now we're supposed to accept he's back to being reasonable Stand again? how does that work exactly?

I'll watch till the end because i want to see what happens but this show is dismal, a waste of a good premise and some good acting talent, and as we've seen with Dead City and That Daryl Show; it doesn't have to be like this.

Edited November 2, 2023 by BasilSeal

[Mr. Sparkle]

23 minutes ago, BasilSeal said:

i think Alicia is actually the mother of his child.

When he stated that Madison knew the mother of his child I immediately thought of Alicia, because honestly, who else could it be? 

[BasilSeal]

10 hours ago, Superclam said:

When he stated that Madison knew the mother of his child I immediately thought of Alicia, because honestly, who else could it be? 

Exactly. They've kind of painted themselves into a corner here narrative wise. The message seems to be that children, family, represent the future, Morgan has Mo, Daniel Luciana, strand his German stepson, so who will Madison have? and if the answer it no one, what exactly is the point in bringing her back at this late stage?

The introduction of canned Nick is to remind us of her family, so i think this will end with her getting closure by laying Nick and Alicia to rest, with Alicia's child signifying continuation and hope for the future.

Although Madison seems to be making a determined effort to die herself as yet again she's wandered off on her own apparently forgetting that she's entirely dependent on oxygen for survival and there's no way she's going to find any oxygen cylinders lying around in the apocalypse.

[Boofish]

8 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

The introduction of canned Nick is to remind us of her family, so i think this will end with her getting closure by laying Nick and Alicia to rest, with Alicia's child signifying continuation and hope for the future.

 

Speaking of needing an oxygen tank, as soon as I recover from these 5 words, I can make my point. The scream I scrumpted 😂😂

Put me in the camp with the people who really liked this show in the beginning and thought quite a few stories they told were interesting. Now don't gather your pitchforks and run me out of town, but for me, mistake number 1 was killing John Dorie and Virginia. Yes, Yosemite Sam Ginny. Here me out. She was evil but she was not as evil as some of the other big bad characters of this franchise. She honestly ranks almost dead last for my list of the villains. That goes for Pamela Milton as well (somewhat). I could have done without the slave train builders arc. That is where she lost me.

They did some messed up shit don't get me wrong but people weren't just living, they were thriving. The worlds they created were somewhat normal considering the circumstances. I think they should have killed Dakota, not Ginny (I also still contend for two people who weren't actually related IRL, the casting of Ginny and Dakota was some of the best I had seen for a minute. They really did look like they had the same DNA.) I'm going to skip past the atomic bomb/Teddy/John Dorie Sr story and what they did to Wes. It's just too painful.

I enjoyed the doomsday preppers camp, the hotel, the Indian tribe that helped them on the damn, the community Morgan built. I feel like him and Ginny could have co-existed eventually. I also enjoyed how few morally tiptoeing characters there were (Daniel and Strand aside) Morgan, John Dorie (favorite across every single show HANDS DOWN) Al, Alicia, Sara, Luciana, June, Wendell, the Rabbi etc. all good people who stayed good people. As opposed to the original show where the hero/villian was all dependent on who got to tell their side of the story first.

Like everyone else here, I will ride it out mostly because I have Walking Dead Stockholm Syndrome. Hell, I would watch the backstory of that horse Rick got killed in season 1.