S01.E04: Part Four - Fallen Jedi

[Kel Varnsen]

On 9/5/2023 at 11:15 PM, Chyromaniac said:

believe the Republic ships were preparing to shoot at the Hyperdrive Ring- Teva gives the order to “lock S-Foils in attack position.

One thing I have never understood about X-Wings, even going back to watching the original movies back as a kid, is why aren't the S-foils always in attack position. You're mostly flying through space so there is no air resistance, so have a more streamlined ship shouldn't make a difference.

My other big take away from these for episodes is that Sabine is kind of dumb. She didn't shoot the map, or the evil Jedi guy when she had the chance. And she left her Mando helmet in the forest.

[Ilovepie]

On 9/7/2023 at 11:28 AM, Spaceman Spiff said:

Reverse grip doesn't mean holding the blades point down.

This gif of cartoon version Ahsoka shows more personality in .5 seconds than live action Rosario Dawson has showed in four episodes......

[paigow]

On 9/10/2023 at 7:18 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

My other big take away from these for episodes is that Sabine is kind of dumb. She didn't shoot the map, or the evil Jedi guy when she had the chance. 

She could have thrown the map over the cliff... Baylan would Force Catch it... while he is concentrating.. shoot his ass..

[benteen]

Now this is what I'm talking about. Excellent episode! I'll have more to say about it later.

[DoctorAtomic]

To be fair here, she balked at destroying the map because that would have been the last and only shot at finding Ezra. She's not a kid, but she's not that old either. Asking her to have the stoicism of a jedi to make that sacrifice is unreasonable, and I would go so far as to say, not really what the Ahsoka of CW and Rebels would have done either. 

Either Ahsoka is just *exhausted* at life, which is entirely understandable, or she doesn't quite grasp how invested Sabine is in finding Ezra. She lost Kanan, Hera is slogging through the government, and Zeb is hanging out in a bar somewhere. She's languishing on Lothal with no purpose, and she's incredibly lonely. She's not destroying the map. 

Get to the other galaxy and takes your chances. If things get dicey, *then* you sabotage the hypership and no one can get back to their 'home' galaxy. That's the sacrifice you make. 

Maybe Sabine could have been a little more savvy and bargained with Baylan to help her find Ezra, but she's still going to the other galaxy to find him.

[Tuggy]

25 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Either Ahsoka is just *exhausted* at life, which is entirely understandable, or she doesn't quite grasp how invested Sabine is in finding Ezra.

That's the thing I do not understand: who is this Ahsoka? I liked the one from TCW a lot and I was quite OK with the Rebels version that seemed like a believable evolution of the character. But this version is completely disconnected from everything I knew about the character. I know people say that she is older, more mature and probably traumatised by many things in her life but as we do not see any of these things, the only thing I get is a very wooden and stiff Ahsoka, that seems to be very keen about the Jedi way and who chose to train a non-force sensitive person for no clear reason 😕

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

To be fair here, she balked at destroying the map because that would have been the last and only shot at finding Ezra. She's not a kid, but she's not that old either. Asking her to have the stoicism of a jedi to make that sacrifice is unreasonable, and I would go so far as to say, not really what the Ahsoka of CW and Rebels would have done either. 

I guess for me, at least so far, the show and the actors haven't really done much to show who Ezra is and why I should car about him. Or why he is worth making multiple dumb mistakes that could doom the galaxy.

3 hours ago, paigow said:

She could have thrown the map over the cliff... Baylan would Force Catch it... while he is concentrating.. shoot his ass..

They could have at least shown that he was doing the Jedi mind trick on her to kind of explain why she didn't shoot him or the map.

[Ilovepie]

40 minutes ago, Tuggy said:

That's the thing I do not understand: who is this Ahsoka? I liked the one from TCW a lot and I was quite OK with the Rebels version that seemed like a believable evolution of the character. But this version is completely disconnected from everything I knew about the character. I know people say that she is older, more mature and probably traumatised by many things in her life but as we do not see any of these things, the only thing I get is a very wooden and stiff Ahsoka, that seems to be very keen about the Jedi way and who chose to train a non-force sensitive person for no clear reason 😕

This!!!!! 100%%%%!!!!! I don't see any of her in the characterization in this show! I don't know if that is the choice of Dave Filoni or Rosario Dawson or both but it isn't working. I just don't understand why she is training a "padawan" when she has said over and over that she isn't a jedi anymore.

 

Just now, Kel Varnsen said:

I guess for me, at least so far, the show and the actors haven't really done much to show who Ezra is and why I should car about him. Or why he is worth making multiple dumb mistakes that could doom the galaxy.

I think the assumption here is that you know what happened in Rebels as this show is a continuation of that one to some extent. But for new viewers, it just isn't that compelling when you don't really know Ezra or Thrawn......

[Kel Varnsen]

24 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

think the assumption here is that you know what happened in Rebels as this show is a continuation of that one to some extent. But for new viewers, it just isn't that compelling when you don't really know Ezra or Thrawn......

I guess but they had to know that a live action Star Wars show starting Rosario Dawson that was connected to The Mandolarian would pull in a bunch of new viewers. And they haven't done a great job making those viewers care for Ezra or even understand why he might still be alive. Which is surprising since I watched that little behind the scenes video with my daughter on D+ last night and people were praising Filoni for how he can write a story where you can watch it and get into it without knowing all the backstory. Because right now Ezra just reminds me of Homer Simpson's solution to get people to like Poochie: "Whenever Ezra's not on screen, all the other characters should be asking, "Where's Ezra?"".

[DoctorAtomic]

I think those are fair criticisms. Not knowing anything, I don't think the plot is that complicated, there is a character that wants to rescue another character she has history with who happens to be in another galaxy, where there also happens to be the main villain. 

As to the why, if you aren't invested in Rebels, I can see that isn't being translated from Rebels effectively.

I'm fine with Ahsoka being exhausted from everything. I mean, another Inquisitor? "Dude, you know where I got these blades?" *Slice* However, you have to know the why from the other shows too. 

I will push back slightly; when she put the helmet on Sabine, she was being playful sneaking up on her and poking her shoulder. Similarly, she literally spacewalked and took out a starfighter. That's old school, bonkers Clone Wars, Anakin has a plan, and here we go again. 

I think her theory of 'if the Force flows through everything, then everyone should be able to use the Force' is quite radical, and I would like to see this play out more. 

I also think this morose Ahsoka is a set up, and she's going to break out of her shell and wreck it like we all know she can. I mean, she mopped the floor with Maul. This Baylan better be an after thought once she gets revved up. She had him here before she burned her hand and was basically napping. 

 

[Kel Varnsen]

7 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

think those are fair criticisms. Not knowing anything, I don't think the plot is that complicated, there is a character that wants to rescue another character she has history with who happens to be in another galaxy, where there also happens to be the main villain. 

It's not that complicated, like logically it makes sense. I just think the show hasn't done a good job really showing why these other characters care about Ezra and in turn why I should. Not sure if it is the acting or the writing though.

[paigow]

23 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Because right now Ezra just reminds me of Homer Simpson's solution to get people to like Poochie: "Whenever Ezra's not on screen, all the other characters should be asking, "Where's Ezra?"".

Are you saying that Homer Simpson has replaced Kathleen Kennedy at Lucasfilm???!!! Call TMZ!!

[DoctorAtomic]

27 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

It's not that complicated, like logically it makes sense. I just think the show hasn't done a good job really showing why these other characters care about Ezra and in turn why I should. Not sure if it is the acting or the writing though.

Like I said, that's fair. There's been no context for why Ezra is so important to Sabine on this show, and he's the main plot driver. I don't mind being dropped right into the action without tons of exposition, but there could have been a little more effort. 

For that matter, I'm not sure they established how Hera and Sabine know each other. 

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I guess for me, at least so far, the show and the actors haven't really done much to show who Ezra is and why I should car about him. Or why he is worth making multiple dumb mistakes that could doom the galaxy.

I watched Rebels and know who Ezra is, and I still don't know why he's worth making multiple dumb mistakes that could doom the galaxy for. Man, that kid was annoying. Most of the bad things that happened on that show happened because Ezra thought he knew best, did what he wanted to do in spite of orders or the plan, and everything went wrong. He'd manage to get out okay, but someone else would suffer consequences. I guess making multiple dumb mistakes that could doom the galaxy is the ultimate tribute to Ezra. They're wearing their "WWED" bracelets and acting just like him.

I actually like the live-action Ahsoka far more than the animated version. She, too, was highly annoying. Yes, she had a big growth arc, but she still got on my last nerve. I'm okay with the mellow portrayal rather than the chirpy animated version. Her seeming like a different character is a good thing. The live-action version is what enabled me to finally watch the animated series after a few false starts.

[Ilovepie]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I think those are fair criticisms. Not knowing anything, I don't think the plot is that complicated, there is a character that wants to rescue another character she has history with who happens to be in another galaxy, where there also happens to be the main villain. 

As to the why, if you aren't invested in Rebels, I can see that isn't being translated from Rebels effectively.

I'm fine with Ahsoka being exhausted from everything. I mean, another Inquisitor? "Dude, you know where I got these blades?" *Slice* However, you have to know the why from the other shows too. 

I will push back slightly; when she put the helmet on Sabine, she was being playful sneaking up on her and poking her shoulder. Similarly, she literally spacewalked and took out a starfighter. That's old school, bonkers Clone Wars, Anakin has a plan, and here we go again. 

I think her theory of 'if the Force flows through everything, then everyone should be able to use the Force' is quite radical, and I would like to see this play out more. 

I also think this morose Ahsoka is a set up, and she's going to break out of her shell and wreck it like we all know she can. I mean, she mopped the floor with Maul. This Baylan better be an after thought once she gets revved up. She had him here before she burned her hand and was basically napping. 

 

I truly hope that you are right - maybe "Snips" seeing Anakin is going to shake her out of this funk? I still think it's a waste of time for her to train Sabine as a Jedi. I think it would be better for her to take her to Din Djarin for training as she seems more comfortable fighting like a Mandalorian, but whatever.

The plot here is not complicated, but I am just not invested in these Rebels characters because I haven't seen that show. They are not as well known as Boba Fett or Obi Wan, and everyone was starting from scratch with Mandalorian so that felt like something new. I was excited about Ahsoka because I have seen Clone Wars, but this feels like a completely different character to me interacting with a bunch of strangers.

[paigow]

The team portrait from Rebels was reproduced for live-action Sabine to reflect upon before leaving with Ahsoka.... the best any noobs will get. Unfortunately, Filoni did not hire any Burn Notice writers..

 

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Like I said, that's fair. There's been no context for why Ezra is so important to Sabine on this show, and he's the main plot driver. I don't mind being dropped right into the action without tons of exposition, but there could have been a little more effort. 

I guess there hasn't also been that much real context for why Thrawn is such a threat. They keep saying he is, but how about throw in some examples of battles he won or some flashbacks or someone waking up from a rebellion PTSD nightmare. Then again the name Thrown keeps making me think of Prawn, so I wonder if we are going to get a giant shellfish man. Although with some of the Star Wars alien designs and the obvious names I guess that might happen.

1 hour ago, Ilovepie said:

I think it would be better for her to take her to Din Djarin for training as she seems more comfortable fighting like a Mandalorian, but whatever.

He also has experience training someone who has Jedi abilities but also wants to be a Mandalorian. Then again Grogu actually went to real Jedi school (2 actually) and has force powers.

[DoctorAtomic]

Ahsoka called Thrawn the 'heir to the Empire'. I think that's good enough for now until Thrawn is actually introduced and we all see what he's all about. 

[phlebas]

Manakin!

[Ottis]

Four eps in, this may be my favorite Disney SW show even if it has its flaws. Darker tone, good story (I barely know the Skywalker saga so I am seeing these folks fresh, except I saw Thrawn in Mandy and thought he was a lightweight). Most of all, Ahsoka as a Jedi is freaking competent. In all ghese shows… Mandy and frog baby, Boba WTF, Andor zzzzz, and Obi Why, the good guys fought like newbies. Ahsoka has skills. The  blonde bad guy is underwhelming, tho, like they went for a Harley Joker unhinged thing but only partway. It’s enough to ignore stuff like why they put a tracker on the escaping shuttle and not the hyperengine (a shuttle could always leave), being naive about Empire supporters swearing an oath and that being enough and Hera being unprofessional in front of the council. Cool ending credit music, too.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Ottis