S03.E03: Grab Your Hankies

[shapeshifter]

On the "Only Speculation Without Spoilers In The Thread" thread, I've added some more suspects based on the murder board and the cast board seen in this episode: forums.primetimer.com/topic/122016-only-speculation-without-spoilers-in-the-thread/?do=findComment&comment=8115137

Even if you're not interested in pondering "Who dunnit," you might still enjoy noticing at about the 3 minute mark that Steve Martin as Charles delivers this line for the podcast in a voice that sounds exactly how William Conrad would have spoken as the narrator for the Rocky and Bullwinkle show:
"As we look at the cast, we are faced with an unsettling truth. Any one of them could be the killer."😁

Edited August 22, 2023 by shapeshifter

[ofmd]

Wrt Mabel and almost baby elephant killer,

Spoiler

didn't we see her in a wedding dress in one of the trailers?

(Not really a spoiler, it's about a trailer scene)

[paramitch]

I can't find the post, but I am still so sad about Mabel leaving her Aunt's apartment. Somehow things have to work out so she stays in the building!

And I also 100% agree that watching her paint over that beautiful wall mural (in the opening "previouslies") still makes me gasp. It's just heartbreaking and I will never get over it.

On 8/21/2023 at 6:19 AM, Milburn Stone said:

I hate it when a show wants me to feel something when every fibre of my being feels the opposite. Case in point, the nanny song. It could not have been more generic. A blend of two songs associated with a certain other nanny (Chim Chim Cheree and Feed the Birds) filtered through the modern-day-Broadway machine to produce some sort of 3D-printed, denatured, ersatz nothing.

If the intent of the sequence had been for us to understand the song was terrible and all the Rattle community were fools for loving it, I would have been all-in with the satire of what passes for art these days. That clearly was not the intent.

First off, THAT'S WHAT I SAID TOO! Thank you. Both "Look for the Light" and especially "Creatures of the Night" felt very Sherman Brothers-esque, right down to the plaintive/galloping piano and affinity for waltz time.

I think "Look for the Light" is beautiful and was beautifully performed, but it absolutely broke immersion for me on multiple fronts:

• The nanny supposedly had one line -- what the heck role is she serving in the show at this point?!
• Oliver is supposed to have written it. Again, Oliver has never been shown to be a composer or lyricist; he's a DIRECTOR! (I could buy him writing "Creatures of the Night," but not "Look for the Light").
• I love Meryl Streep and everything, but I just kept thinking "It's Meryl Streep" singing it, not "It's Loretta!"

But I am obviously too grumpy for this show right now so I really am trying to let all of this go and just let it wash over me.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, paramitch said:

I love Meryl Streep and everything, but I just kept thinking "It's Meryl Streep" singing it, not "It's Loretta!"

Maybe if we were binging the episodes it would feel more organic? 

I was more taken out of the story when we discovered that the little girl who had been inspired by a Broadway performance and worked so hard and diligently was now a senior citizen who had never really had a career, despite continuing to audition and practice for all those decades.

Then, when she blew the table read, I was able to interpret it as her considering herself a life-long professional who had the right to try accents etc., but, again, it took a few leaps in my mind back to her childhood to get there.

I guess it's like they gave the Meryl Streep character so much depth because it was MS, but then the story is not really about her, so when she and her arc reappears, it's like: Wait. What? Oh ye-e-a-ah.

Edited August 22, 2023 by shapeshifter

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I was more taken out of the story when we discovered that the little girl who had been inspired by a Broadway performance and worked so hard and diligently was now a senior citizen who had never really had a career, despite continuing to audition and practice for all those decades.

I thought that that was giving more weight to the monologue that Donna gave as we saw how a musical affected Loretta's life choices.

[Bklyndeb]

On 8/15/2023 at 11:36 AM, peeayebee said:

It has a great double meaning.

I didn't love it either. I thought the best part was the monologue Donna did. It was awesome. Right now I think Donna and Cliff are the best part of the show. And can their relationship get any ickier? Stay tuned.

I was distracted by that, too. I guess that sort of thing happens frequently in shows and movies. Suspending disbelief once more. 

My initial thought for who Ben was talking to was himself. After all, there are images of him everywhere. But since he was looking downward, I really like the idea that he's talking to cookies on a table.

That Fairey poster of Ben with "Talent" underneath was hilarious.

I also laughed when Oliver said, "But we do have champagne!" followed by Howard dropping it. Also loved when he did his mother's voice. "Momma
was a smoker.”

I don't think I liked any of the scenes with Mabel and Tobert. I thought the whole thing with her stealing his drive and demanding the password so SHE could solve the murder was stupid. It was his drive. He was the one who got the bit of evidence. I just didn't much like Mabel in this ep. Well, I did like her impression of Oliver.

I liked the lullaby. I thought it was beautiful.

"Creatures of the Night." Why does that sound familiar? I just did a quick google search and see that it's an album by KISS, but the title reminds me of something else.

Rocky Horror maybe?

Thrill me, fill me, fulfill me, creature of the night. 

[DriverB]

On 8/19/2023 at 6:53 AM, paramitch said:

If it helps, Martin Short is a Tony winner who has done half a dozen musical projects over the past 40-50 years, while Steve Martin is a multiple Grammy-winning songwriter, performer, Tony nominee, and Drama Desk Award winner who also co-created the lovely multiple Tony nominee (but short-lived) Bright Star (with Edie Brickell) plus Picasso at the Lapine Agile and Meteor Shower. Plus bonus points for singing the Dentist song in Little Shop! And Selena of course is a music superstar.

Thank you for linking these! Steve is a true Renaissance man. He has really inspired me with all the different things he's done -- he's an amazing writer, actor, performer, musician, songwriter, art collector/enthusiast, etc. He can pretty much do anything.

Thank you for reminding me about Picasso at the Lapine Agile! It's a wonderful play which I saw performed multiple times - but that was probably 20 years ago and now that you've jogged my memory, I would love to see or read it again. Steve really is incredibly talented. 

[mostlylurking]

Ok please tell me what I’m missing because I really haven’t seen any evidence (besides the way he was acting opening night before and after the play) of Ben being this huge asshole??  At the table read he seemed fine, if a bit “bro-ish” which is his schtick I guess.  Then we got to see all his insecurities and he hated Charles because of being fired when he was an eight year old supporting his entire family.  Then fast forward to four months later (opening night) and he’s this gigantic dick.  When did that happen??  Maybe we just haven’t seen it yet but it seems like a huge personality shift in a matter of months.

[ofmd]

I thought he was completely self-centered and rude. (And yes, then we got to see his insecurities.)

[EtheltoTillie]

On 8/16/2023 at 12:52 AM, moonorchid said:

I
 

Speaking of, she is damn near stealing the show and her song at the end…I was shocked at how much I loved it and was questioning if I’m supposed to be THAT into it. She really is just exquisite!

 

 

I think she's great in this.  And I have made no secret of my unpopular opinion that Meryl Streep is overrated. 

[Yeah No]

9 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I think she's great in this.  And I have made no secret of my unpopular opinion that Meryl Streep is overrated. 

I agree 100% with both of your sentences.

[TomGirl]

On 8/16/2023 at 2:30 AM, HelloooKitty said:

FYI, the song is up on YouTube so you can play it over and over again! Not that I’ve been doing that. Ummm, nope. 

Me too.  Crying every time.

[aradia22]

Maybe I've just watched too much TV, but I was suspicious when Ben said that bit about 'sitting there looking sweet.' It was such odd phrasing. When he said the "I want you" thing later, my suspicions were confirmed. He's 100% talking about cookies isn't he? Or something else that would ruin his diet? Talking about something ruining his career but having whoever that "person" is not responding... it's what he ate before he "died" the first time. 

Anyway, another great episode. I love the whole 'putting a show together' vibe even if it's not believable for Oliver to compose anything that quickly. He's a director. Meryl is just a gift for this show. I know Loretta can't stick around but I can't help but enjoy Oliver and Loretta's chemistry anyway. The lullaby for the nanny was sweet. Gentler, definitely but it had some of the energy of Hold On from The Secret Garden. Not every showstopper has tap-dancing. I mean, the ALW ones tend to have belting but they're still ballads. 

I don't really feel any kind of way about Tobert so far but he's giving Mabel someone to interact with while Oliver and Charles are occupied with this show and it's similar to her friend from season 1. I hope that line from Charles about not going with another female killer can be trusted. I like the women and I think any of the men would be more interesting as the killer right now. 

Winnie!

[aradia22]

Quote

I didn't really believe that Tobert and Mabel could have a whispered conversation and not be overheard by Ben's brother. 

Quote

I was distracted by that, too. I guess that sort of thing happens frequently in shows and movies. Suspending disbelief once more. 

I was already grumpy about the bad lighting in the armoire. I don't need actual whispered mumbling when I already need subtitles some of the time. Realism is overrated. Some things can involve suspension of disbelief based on normal narrative convention, while say, Oliver talking loudly in the lobby could be overheard by Lester or Uma. 

Quote

It's possible that Ben didn't snatch the camera away from Tobert, but that Tobert actually planted it in his dressing room.  For whatever reason, having his own plan to make a documentary about Ben's death, rather than his premier on Broadway [...] He could hide in plain sight among a cast who all disliked Ben enough to be suspects.

After two seasons of having Mabel's initially suspicious love interest not be the killer, having a love interest who seems pretty honest at first (e.g. claiming to be a bad liar as they both openly snoop) be the killer would be a twist.

Quote

Also loved when he did his mother's voice. "Momma was a smoker.”

Martin Short is really showcasing his talents in this show and I love that for him. 

Quote

Maybe the understudy hoping Ben would be sick enough he couldn’t take the stage. 

I hope not because I want Jonathan and Howard to be happy together. I've been thinking of going back to watch the blackout episode but I need to finish this season first. 

Now that I know it's a Sara Bareilles song, I definitely hear it. The Pasek/Paul brings some of that La La Land energy too.

Quote

Loretta booking a show that's a spinoff of an offshoot of an offshoot of Grey's Anatomy is hilarious.

I think it was Grey's Anatomy New Orleans Family Burn Unit. Whatever the exact wording, very fun and silly. 

[aradia22]

Quote

Loved the monologue about the gal from Duluth and the ear worm from a musical. Mean but true. 

Honestly, I'm loving the specificity. This season is for theater people and, to me, it's landing even better than the NY-specific jokes in past seasons. Also, it sounds like a read of ALW shows Memory (Cats), Don't Cry For Me Argentina (Evita)... whatever song people like from Phantom.

Quote

I haven't felt like Meryl Streep was dominating the show--not that I've really measured. Obviously her story is what starts the season so I think thematically her story (waiting her whole life for her break) is important, but I don't think she's taking time away from the main characters. The main characters would be separated anyway, because that's their story this season. Mable's alone and feeling lost and the two guys are unaware of how she feels. Charles had a romance the first season, now Oliver has one. Loretta might turn out to be an interesting contrast to Mable who's also getting a late start.

I think she's been a big focus but I don't mind at all. I appreciate that this show isn't whatever the season-equivalent of "case of the week" is. I don't want it to be that repetitive. I like that the characters are capable of growth. I want Mabel to get out of the Arconia and figure out what she wants to pursue to make a living (or maybe go back and finish college). Even if Death Rattle flops, I Oliver to start directing again. I want Charles to find some kind of happiness even if he's incapable of sharing his apartment. If I wanted everything to stay the same, I'd watch 22 episodes a season sitcoms. 

Quote

Even if you're not interested in pondering "Who dunnit," you might still enjoy noticing at about the 3 minute mark that Steve Martin as Charles delivers this line for the podcast in a voice that sounds exactly how William Conrad would have spoken as the narrator for the Rocky and Bullwinkle show:
"As we look at the cast, we are faced with an unsettling truth. Any one of them could be the killer."😁

All the focus on the cast makes me think it's definitely not someone in the cast. 

Quote

The nanny supposedly had one line -- what the heck role is she serving in the show at this point?!

No, she had at least that scene she delivered in the audition to the detective questioning her. It was a short scene, of course, but it was more than one line. It communicated that she would be willing to kill for a child in her care. I don't think having the song addressed to the now triplets instead of making that a defensive statement to a detective is so crazy. Also, she definitely had lines at the beginning of the play for some reason because she was started off the rough table read. 

Quote

I think she's great in this.  And I have made no secret of my unpopular opinion that Meryl Streep is overrated. 

Quote

I agree 100% with both of your sentences.

Me three. At some point in her late career she stopped playing characters and started playing caricatures with funny voices. She stopped being able to disappear into roles and even in stuff like The Devil Wears Prada it was too broad and too self-conscious. And yes, there are moments when she cries but she could do that in her sleep. Loretta feels like she's really playing a person again and not Meryl Streep showing off. 

[Absurda]

On 8/18/2023 at 9:31 AM, Frost said:

Wasn't the Nanny only supposed to have one line, in one scene, at the audition?   Loretta's part does seem to be growing steadily.

No, she had a full monologue in the audition.  I think the comment "it's just this one scene, right?" was in reference to the pages for the audition, not the nanny's part as a whole.  At the table read she clearly had multiple lines in Act 1 and was the first or second character to speak.