S04.E10: The Ballad of Lives Foregone

[jewel21]

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Carson and Ryan work together to help Nancy.

Airdate: 08/02/2023

[quarks]

So an episode that left me, at least, with more questions than answers, starting with:

1. What was going on with production behind the scenes? This is a low budget show, but it's rarely this obviously a low-budget show, complete with unusually poor excuses to a) avoid needing to hire extras (not calling ambulances on at least two occasions; I get that the hospital couldn't have treated the supernatural stuff and they probably would have asked questions about the poison, but last I checked, hospitals are capable of treating arrow wounds, and that's before I get into whatever was going on with pulling a girl with a broken leg out of a hole and not, say, trying to call for some sort of assistance so that her leg wouldn't be further harmed) b) allow for simultaneous filming (George suddenly leaving Nancy's lair for the Drew house, even though the existing research was all at Nancy's place, and Nancy's place has internet, but this way, they could simultaneously film some stuff at Nancy's place while also filming stuff at the Drew house), c) avoid most location shooting (again, a notable lack of actually heading to the Yacht Club, instead shooting in a small soundstage and just adding CGI). 

I suspect most of this had to do with the cancellation, which caused last minute reshoots/filming and of course meant that there was no way to carry over any potential budget issues to the next season or ask CBS/the CW for more money, but it was still a bit jarring in a show that has usually done better at hiding this.

2. Awwww, Ace willing to help save Tristan and trying to make sure that Nancy didn't have to deal with still more trauma. THAT SAID, uh, I'm not 100% sure that, "Ok, pull it up straight now!" exactly counted as sound medical advice.

3. And yes, Ace and Bess back together, solving crimes! Those two are one of my favorite pairings; I hope they get at least a few more scenes together in the next three episodes.

4. But also, Ace was an Eagle Scout? Did this come up before and I just missed it?

(Quite possibly! It just kinda threw me because it doesn't quite seem to match the slacker image and library warfare from back in season 1.)

5. But also, and I say this with no offense to Ace, since when does being an Eagle Scout/working at a morgue constitute enough medical training to advise anyone how to remove an arrow from someone's chest over a cell phone, and, also, the arrow was a physical wound, so if the Drew Crew now has the supernatural ability to heal arrow punctures in, what was that, ten hours, why aren't they sharing that with the rest of the world?

6. Carson's reactions during this episode are about the only thing keeping me resigned to the idea that this all happened within a year.

Also, I was kinda on his side in his final conversation with George. 

7. And definitely on his "our daughter" comment.

8. Speaking of favorite pairings, the Nick/Nancy pairing was also great tonight. And not sure how deliberate any of this was, but Nancy wasn't just more comfortable with Nick and George than with Tristan (understandably, given the comparative lengths of their friendships) but seemed to have better chemistry with both of them.

9. So, has Nancy just been reincarnated, like, lots, or time travelled, like, also lots? Or both? Or was that original soul just lying through his ghostly teeth?

10. I mean, yes, absolutely, let's all band together to help save Tristan, but also, Bess is 100% right, let's try not to forget that the Glasses just tried to kill two of you not all that long ago, and by their own admission have been doing seriously shady things, like, and this is not a small thing, making zombies wander around, so maybe - just maybe - we a) don't send them off to explore things with just Ryan, b) we don't hang out with Tristan in a small room filled with flames that could set the entire place ablaze like, Nancy, come on, some common sense here, c) Nick, unless this is going to turn into a later plot point where you knew something all along, we don't encourage Nancy to spend alone time with Tristan until we have better info on the Glasses. She can wait a couple of weeks to date Tristan. I mean, yes, I know that she is getting back together with Ace in just three episodes so she doesn't exactly have a lot of time, but you don't know that. The Glasses are just not trustworthy, and I say that even without the whole kidnapping Nancy thing.

11. Also...are the Glasses really resorting to illegal relic trading/outright harming people/kidnapping Nancy just out of pure love for Tristan or is something else going on here? I'm voting for something else. Even if next week's episode proves me completely wrong. 

12. Also....everything about Tristan apparently not being able to leave Horseshoe Bay for long without getting sick/feeling intense pain? I admittedly haven't been paying very close attention to Tristan given the whole HI TEMPORARY LOVE INTEREST thing, BUT, surely, in that case, Nancy, George, Ace, Carson or even Abby would have run into him long before this? I'm not saying that everyone necessarily needs to know everyone, but, also, Horseshoe Bay supposedly isn't all that large. 

Something seems off here, though this could largely be because of last minute "wait, we're being cancelled?" scrambling.

11. And speaking of Nancy, what was this sin? Something perhaps - just perhaps - to do with Ace?  Or has she just been eating far, far too much sorbet? Or bagels?

More probably something to do with Ace, but, you know, I'm not against the bagel theory. 

[Shorty186]

This episode made me really sad because for the first time I don't believe we're going to get any Nancy and Ace are together closure. Best case scenario: 5 minutes before the screen goes black (forever), they say their ILYs and flash forward to a horribly CGI'd Paris.

And I'm really bummed because I could not have cared less about anything that was happening this episode. No real drama because of course they were going to save Tristan. Ugh, his and Nancy's convos made me feel like I stepped into another show because probably no less than 7 days ago in HSB time, Nancy was still in love with Ace. What season did we fall into? I bet they even spend the rest of the season trying to cure him of being the Sin Eater.

Do I care that Ace was off by himself with the ghost STILL? No, the only thing that made it okay was that Bess was there. I guess I'm glad that Nick and George's love interests weren't shoehorned into this episode somehow. I don't think they've been successful with the "Let's turn George into an Attorney" subplot so I kind of have to roll my eyes when George tries to teaxh Carson about what's truly right and wrong. I miss her with her family. Yes we've seen Jessie but she has 2 other sisters and a mom. 

Speaking of missing families, I hate that they never brought back the Marvins after season 1. They aren't even mentioned in passing. If they didn't say Bess' full name so often, we'd never have heard it again. Bess is the only one with a continuing love interest, and Addy has only been in 2 episodes? I don't care how much the writers try to handwave the negatives away with magic at the very end, the majority of this season has been lackluster. It started out strong and then just fizzled. But they did it intentionally for some reason.

[TiffanyNichelle]

Wait so now Ace is going to date a ghost  (thanks for reminding us Bess about yours lol) and Nancy is going to be involved in a reincarnated love story? I'm so confused at what's happening at the end of this show.

I really love the mentor/mentee relationship with Carson and George but halfway through the episode I randomly remembered that at the beginning of the series George was having an affair with Ryan. This has been a very long year.

[the-grey-lady]

4 hours ago, quarks said:

I admittedly haven't been paying very close attention to Tristan given the whole HI TEMPORARY LOVE INTEREST

I wish I had your surety that he's temporary. They're working awfully hard to make him seem like a viable love interest.

[quarks]

32 minutes ago, the-grey-lady said:

I wish I had your surety that he's temporary. They're working awfully hard to make him seem like a viable love interest.

I think he's just the standard last minute rival love interest thrown in to add a bit of last minute suspense about the main couple. They usually are written to at least seem to be viable, real temptations - think Richard for Monica and Chandler over on Friends. Lots of reasons for Monica to pick him! He even got a lot more screentime than Tristan has gotten, at least so far. Chandler freaked out! WOULD IT HAPPEN? WOULD IT? 

So, like, sure, Nancy showed some interest this last episode. But looking at the entire season and, well, the aim of the show, I just don't see the show working all that hard to make him a viable love interest. I mean, just to start with, the character has only been in six out of ten episodes this season - and in two of those six episodes, he appeared as the Sin-Eater, not Tristan. So he's really only been in four episodes. In two of those episodes, he made only brief appearances.

In the third episode ("The Web of Yesterdays"), Tristan and Nancy got a few cute scenes, but the focus was still on Nancy and Ace - and Ace, not Tristan, was the first to volunteer to jump through the portal to save her; Nick and George, not Tristan, killed the spiders at the school; and the Drew Crew, with Ace, again, not Tristan, saved Nancy afterwards.

So it's really just been one episode - out of ten - where Tristan/Nancy has had more focus than Nancy and Ace. And in that episode - this one - Tristan failed to play any sort of investigative/heroic role, in complete contrast to both Nick and Ace. Nick was Nancy's partner/co-investigator this last episode, not Tristan.

Which seems important, since the show is, after all, mostly about Nancy realizing and achieving her destiny as an investigator/detective. That's a role that Tristan successfully managed to overshadow earlier this season at the Career thingy, and a role that Ace explicitly said a couple of seasons ago gave him purpose, to the point where even when Nancy was avoiding him at the end of last season, he sought out a job that would let him investigate things.

I would even say that of everyone Nancy has dated so far on this show, Tristan isn't just the worst fit for that destiny, but the only one who has failed to do anything to achieve it (and yes, that includes Gil), and to a certain extent, is even almost working against that destiny. He was ok, for instance, with staying in the past back in "The Web of Yesterdays."

While that was going on? Ace and Nick were trying to solve one of Nancy's cases.

And speaking of that case, that bit where Ace showed up with the ferret only to find Nancy slow dancing with Tristan? Television staple (Friends did this one too) suggesting an Ace/Nancy endgame.

So, yeah, I'm fairly confident in an Ace/Nancy endgame. (Less confident in Nick/George - that might happen, but might not happen.) 

And by the end of the month, we'll know if I'm wrong!

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, even if this all ends with Nancy and Ace being the endgame couple come finale time, you can definitely tell the writers initially didn't know this was the final season, because not only is Nancy still willing to give Tristian a try despite the whole Sin Eater thing, but now Ace might have something going on with Mysterious Ghost Lady?  At least they did have Bess remind everyone that the last time something like that happened (Odette), it didn't end well, but who knows at this point?

Plus, it sounds like there is more to Nancy/Tristian and there might be some kind of reincarnated love story due to how the original soul was acting around her?  Since I recently watched The Vampire Diaries, this is kind of reminding me of the whole "Stefan and Elena's doppelgängers being destined for one another" thing.  Not a huge fan.

Did like some of the pair offs here like Ace/Bess and Nancy/Nick.  And the beginning scene with Carson and Ryan was a great Nancy's Two Dads moment.

Didn't realize that this really is the first time Carson has been heavily involved with actual supernatural moments.  Definitely think George was right at the end, but I can see why he was shaken up over some of the rule breaking and trickery they have to do: even if the ends usually due justify the means.

So, Nancy was the actual last person to summon the sin eater?  And now the Glasses have taken here because they believe she needs to be sacrificed to destroy the Sin Eater for good.  Man, if Nancy and Tristian end up being serious in anyway, family dinner's are going to rough going forward!

[Moxie Cat]

On 8/4/2023 at 3:01 AM, thuganomics85 said:

you can definitely tell the writers initially didn't know this was the final season

I haven't followed the ins and outs of when they did and didn't know. BUT. As someone who has watched genre shows for many years, I find it hard to believe that the writers didn't have SOME suspicion that season 4 would be the end. Every season of Roswell, Buffy, Angel, Alias, etc. was a blessing. This is just real life as a genre fan.

Heck, I was happily surprised when season 4 was picked up, despite all the CW drama in spring 2022. How could they not have had some inkling that this fourth season might be the end - when it seemed super obvious to me, just an average viewer?

Even if you think you MIGHT get another season, you can still write towards the current season finale as if it MIGHT be the very last one. It's possible to give the main storylines closure and leave potential plots dangling in a way that will still satisfy the audience.

Case in point: I just watched the season 3 finale of "The Righteous Gemstones." Yes, a very, very different show. But the finale tied up a lot of seasons-long story threads (and provided plenty of closure) while still providing glimmers of how the plot might continue. (Apparently it WAS renewed. Which is fine, and no big deal that the S3 finale was awesome!)

Sorry for the rambling. I was just super annoyed with this episode. I love Nancy, and I have been here for Nancy/Ace since the middle of season 1. This is the second episode in which, I believe, they haven't even had a scene together. We are rolling towards the finale, and now Nancy is apparently some kind of reincarnated soul paired with Tristan? (Who has apparently lived in Horseshoe Bay his whole life and yet none of the Drew Crew know him. OK.)

Ugh. I hope this gets better.

[quarks]

On 8/6/2023 at 9:32 PM, Moxie Cat said:

I haven't followed the ins and outs of when they did and didn't know. BUT. As someone who has watched genre shows for many years, I find it hard to believe that the writers didn't have SOME suspicion that season 4 would be the end. Every season of Roswell, Buffy, Angel, Alias, etc. was a blessing. This is just real life as a genre fan.

Heck, I was happily surprised when season 4 was picked up, despite all the CW drama in spring 2022. How could they not have had some inkling that this fourth season might be the end - when it seemed super obvious to me, just an average viewer?

Even if you think you MIGHT get another season, you can still write towards the current season finale as if it MIGHT be the very last one. It's possible to give the main storylines closure and leave potential plots dangling in a way that will still satisfy the audience.

Case in point: I just watched the season 3 finale of "The Righteous Gemstones." Yes, a very, very different show. But the finale tied up a lot of seasons-long story threads (and provided plenty of closure) while still providing glimmers of how the plot might continue. (Apparently it WAS renewed. Which is fine, and no big deal that the S3 finale was awesome!)

Sorry for the rambling. I was just super annoyed with this episode. I love Nancy, and I have been here for Nancy/Ace since the middle of season 1. This is the second episode in which, I believe, they haven't even had a scene together. We are rolling towards the finale, and now Nancy is apparently some kind of reincarnated soul paired with Tristan? (Who has apparently lived in Horseshoe Bay his whole life and yet none of the Drew Crew know him. OK.)

Ugh. I hope this gets better.

I wrote on another thread just why I'm inclined to give the writers/showrunners a bit of a break on the cancellation/season arc issue.

I'll just add one more point here, though: we don't know who ultimately decided on this season-long arc.  It could have been the writers or the showrunners. Or it could have been the executives. 

But this:

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Tristan? (Who has apparently lived in Horseshoe Bay his whole life and yet none of the Drew Crew know him. OK.)

strikes me as very important. And suspicious.

Horseshoe Bay obviously has a lot of secrets, and the Glasses said that they frequently took Tristan from Horseshoe Bay. But they also said that Tristan got sick whenever he left, so they brought him back, and yet, no one recognizes him. Not Nancy, not George, not Ace, not Carson, not Ryan. He just suddenly shows up on his boat, and then starts delivering lobsters to the Claw.

Equally importantly, we haven't seen him interact with - or be recognized by - anyone else in Horseshoe Bay other than a suspicious marine security guy who didn't seem to know Tristan well either.

And sure, that's also true for Jade and George's prelaw school love interest - but although I am now highly suspicious of George's prelaw school love interest, and maybe a little suspicious of Jade, both of them are tertiary characters. And it's reasonable to assume that the prelaw guy is only here for college. 

The other new characters this season have either explained why they haven't exactly spent significant time in Horseshoe Bay (Addy's parents), outright stated that they are new in town (the Sherriff) or have been recognized by other townspeople (everyone involved in the Let's Ban Books the Supernatural plot).

So....yeah, it's suspicious. I don't know if the show will ever end up addressing it, but it's suspicious, and might even be a plot point. 

[tennisgurl]

I'm still keeping the faith but I am getting a sinking suspicion that we might have to be happy with a Nancy/Ace crumb thrown at us at the absolute last minute. This show just has to get them back together at some point (right?!) but we have so little time and now it seems like the show is going ahead with Tristan and Ace might have a new love interest who happens to be a ghost, at this point I just want to know that they end the show together and away from this stupid curse. I know that the writers weren't planning on this being the last season, but they had to have at least seen that it was a possibility, they should have written more accordingly. I cant say I speak for all fans, but I think most people want to spend our time with Nancy, Ace, and our heroes, not a bunch of random new love interests. 

Its a bit hilarious that Nancy has rebounded with a sin eater and Ace possibly with a ghost, like wow guys, you really are in synch. I guess at least neither of them are possessing any of their friends this time. 

The episode itself was alright, I really liked all of the pairings of characters, like Ace/Bess, Nick/Nancy, and of course Nancy's Two Dads. Tristan is an alright character but I am not all that invested in him, I wanted less stress about saving him and Nancy figuring her feelings out and more about his past souls and all of the weird soul eater mythology. 

Poor Ryan got all sucked into feeling a lot of paternal empathy for the Glasses, so much that he forgot that they are also not the best people. This must be one of the worst Meet the Parents situations ever! Poor Carson as well, he normally avoids dealing with full on magic so seeing it actually really hit him in the face. "Stop saying Sin Easter like that's a thing that people just say!" The guy probably wakes up every morning and wonders how his life has gotten to this point.

[the-grey-lady]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I'm still keeping the faith but I am getting a sinking suspicion that we might have to be happy with a Nancy/Ace crumb thrown at us at the absolute last minute.

I'm afraid of this too, and that would be so disappointing for me, after we've had all this great Nace buildup.