Project Greenlight: A New Generation - General Discussion

[BetterButter]

 

[CountryGirl]

Quote

This reboot focuses on the next generation of talented female filmmakers, who are given the chance to direct a feature film. EP Issa Rae, Kumail Nanjiani and Gina Prince-Bythewood serve as mentors throughout the season. The show pulls back the curtain on the filmmaking process from start to finish, offering a unique look into director Meko Winbush's experience as she directs her first feature film, Gray Matter.

Premieres July 13, 2023 on MAX. 

[TVbitch]

Loved this way back in the day. Watched the first episode:

I'm PISSED we didn't get to see all of the shorts, and then we didn't even get to see the movie scenes each one shot. WTF!! How are we supposed to know who we wanted to get the job? They did not do it this way before, right? Anyway, I'm glad they ended up picking the director who seems to have shot the best scene, instead of the one with the best sob story. I was rather put off by the panel trying to get the ladies to cough up their personal trauma and some tears so the panel could "feel their passion" or whatever. This seems to be what is required for reality competition shows these days, but for fuck's sake, you are making a low budget sci-fi movie, not Sophie's Choice!

And finally, are they kidding me with the cocaine nutcase who showed up to the meeting with her boobs hanging out and practically spewing confetti out of her mouth? Like any of those industry people were going to try to work with that!

Looking forward to watching how it unfolds from here...

[pasdetrois]

I love filmmaking so I binged over several days.

Despite Issa stating otherwise, this is a reality TV show, not a documentary. I was so excited, especially after the nasty last season of the original PG, but I'm very disappointed.

It felt like an exercise in brand promotion for Issa and her two other "mentors." I don't see how the movie, now streaming on MAX, will generate any income other than whatever big salaries certain folks received (13 executive producers), and exposure for them.

There was so much promotion about providing opportunity for the chosen director, Meko, yet several of the producers criticized her at length in most of the episodes. They handed her an impossible task (low budget, little time), then sniped at her difficulties on every talking head. I realized the sniping was to generate reality-TV drama.

Eventually one of Issa's senior staff had to gather producers together and claim that all of the critical guidance given to Meko was not "for the show," meaning reality TV drama.

Also, they spoke endlessly of the script's flaws and Meko's flawed performance, yet no one actually stepped in to help her in a meaningful way (that we saw). Just lots and lots of "notes." The exceptions were Gina Prince-Bythewood (director of The Woman King) and one of the other producers. Which do you want? A successful film or reality TV drama?

Love the concept of providing opportunities for people of color, which they emphasized repeatedly. Hated the execution. All of the final director candidates were women of color except two White women who felt like tokens. One was an emotional mother of a newborn, and funny, who gave interesting comments. The other as TVBitch mentioned was a sloppy idiot. Why not just limit the search to women of color?

Edited July 20, 2023 by pasdetrois

[SHD]

I agree with everyone above. All good points.

99% of all the issues throughout would’ve not existed if they had given Meko a fully realized, finished script instead of expecting Meko to rewrite it on the fly to make it coherent. They absolutely created the drama.

I hope I get to see some project the MN Mom candidate puts together. She was wrong for this project but her reel was the most engaging.

[SHD]

Update: I watched the finished product on MAX and now I’m really confused. I thought in the meetings that the Derek character was something Meko hated and was forced to write in after the fact. But the whole movie seems to rely on him so what was the story before?! (Good chance I’m just remembering incorrectly.)

I wish they would’ve posted both the Director’s Cut AND the finished product so we could see how much or little they had to change. I’m feeling like MAX and the other companies might’ve taken over a LOT for the final clean-up.

Seems too, that in the “Where Are They Now?” recap, Meko had the fewest accomplishments. Feels like the real prize was getting exposure on the show and then NOT being picked so they could pursue development deals and field offers.

[marybennet]

The character Meko hated was not Derek but Eric (named for maximum confusion).  She successfully resisted having Eric written into the script—probably a good decision. 
 

I kept wanting greater frankness from people (saying bluntly to Meko “so it’s your job to rewrite the script”) and genuine mentoring (it kept sounding to me as if people expected her to know things she didn’t know—like that she was supposed to use the 30 minutes between the pre-table read and the table read to coach the actors).  

[marybennet]

Oops!  Maybe Eric or an Eric figure was included.  Sorry!

[SHD]

2 hours ago, marybennet said:

The character Meko hated was not Derek but Eric (named for maximum confusion).  She successfully resisted having Eric written into the script—probably a good decision. 

Well, it worked because it obviously confused ME! 

This is not my preferred genre of movie so I’m not a great judge of it. It ended up looking way better visually than I expected but like they all were saying throughout, nothing really made me care about the main characters. For me, that was a problem they didn’t fix.

[QQQQ]

Just finished the season and I am of two minds. It was frustrating to watch Meko get in her own way, but I kept thinking of Episodes throughout -- the studio execs and mentors almost seemed like caricatures 😅

 

This review from Variety sums up my feelings.

Edited July 24, 2023 by QQQQ
The director's name is Meko not Keko.

[txhorns79]

On 7/21/2023 at 9:37 PM, SHD said:

99% of all the issues throughout would’ve not existed if they had given Meko a fully realized, finished script instead of expecting Meko to rewrite it on the fly to make it coherent. They absolutely created the drama.

This.  I did feel as though Meko was set up to fail.  If the idea was for her to make a successful film, why give her a script that no one seemed to like?  It also felt like the mentors, excepting, Gina-Prince Blythewood, largely checked out of the process after the first episode.  And perhaps it is just me, but it seemed like the producers notes could have gotten through to Melo more if they had just been direct instead of cloaking everything in fake niceties. 

Having said that, I don't pretend Meko did herself any favors by taking time off of work for a bachelor party while the script was being worked on, and seeming content at times to simply leave her post-production editor to work on his own.  She was very low energy, and that, combined with her lack of personality, made it hard to tell whether she was listening to anything the production people were telling her. 

[zenithwit]

Just finished the season and oh boy I have a lot of thoughts on this.  Full disclaimer: this is actually the first season of Project Greenlight I've watched so I may be missing some historical context.

First, to echo a lot of similar sentiments expressed here, while it's admirable they intentionally picked a director from an underrepresented background, it's clear that the "mentors" didn't think through what would be needed to support that director for a successful project.  Every industry has norms and unwritten rules and instead of helping Meko navigate that, everyone just complained to the cameras about how she wasn't following them.  And honestly, some of this wouldn't be hard at all.  For example with the whole "Meko not providing feedback in-between the pre-table read and table read", well why didn't you just add that to the schedule?! Seriously, how hard is to have a very structured agenda for the day showing pre-table from time X to Y, then 30 minutes director feedback and then table read at time Z.  I wish Issa, Kumail and Gina took some time to think what they wished they had known or done at the start of their careers and then provided that guidance to Meko in a firm way.  Gina was the closest to this but didn't seem super available due to her own commitments.

But of course, the elephant in the room is that "Gray Matter" isn't the main product here, it's "Project Greenlight".  Even though Issa repeatedly said that she wouldn't want her name attached to a poor movie, it's hard to take that statement seriously when she is also an Executive Producer on Project Greenlight.  If Project Greenlight is actually the cash cow, who care if the movie is any good or makes money.  Any money Gray Matter makes is probably icing on the cake. 

This dynamic became more and more clear when they kept talking about the friction between the two productions and eventually had that HBO Exec order Meko to wear her mic.  I don't think I've seen that happen in a real documentary before.  Maybe the documentary would try to convince a subject to continue participating but never order them.  That interaction between Meko and the HBO Exec showed that this was more of a reality show than a true documentary/docuseries.

But not to let Meko completely off the hook... her lack of ability to articulate her thoughts was frustrating to watch.  There's nothing wrong with needing a minute to digest and process a note but she needed to say that to all of the Type A producers she was working with.  Otherwise they just assumed that she was ignoring them.  Also, when Meko was struggling with the script, I was dying for her to tell the producers that she didn't have a enough bandwidth to fix their script AND do all of the other stuff.  

Lastly, I just started the 4th season of Project Greenlight and it's infuriating seeing Matt Damon/Ben Affleck bend over backwards to accommodate the dude they selected.  I'm only an episode or two into that one but it's clear how much more respect and support that guy got vs Meko.

Overall, it appears that Meko is a talented director.  Hopefully she can learn from some of her mistakes and how to better to manage Hollywood producers/decision-makers and have a fruitful career.

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, zenithwit said:

But of course, the elephant in the room is that "Gray Matter" isn't the main product here, it's "Project Greenlight".  Even though Issa repeatedly said that she wouldn't want her name attached to a poor movie, it's hard to take that statement seriously when she is also an Executive Producer on Project Greenlight.  If Project Greenlight is actually the cash cow, who care if the movie is any good or makes money.  Any money Gray Matter makes is probably icing on the cake. 

I agree.  I presume the expectation was that Gray Matter was not going to be a good movie.  If you are expecting a good, marketable movie, I doubt you would start with a bad script, an inexperienced director, and expect her to fix it all within a compressed time period.  

 

2 hours ago, zenithwit said:

This dynamic became more and more clear when they kept talking about the friction between the two productions and eventually had that HBO Exec order Meko to wear her mic.  I don't think I've seen that happen in a real documentary before.  Maybe the documentary would try to convince a subject to continue participating but never order them.  That interaction between Meko and the HBO Exec showed that this was more of a reality show than a true documentary/docuseries.

It's a total reality show.  I'm sure to participate on the show, Meko had to sign a contract specifying when and where she had to use her mic and be on camera.  I have no doubt that she was told in no uncertain terms that her participation on the show was contingent on her following whatever rules they set for her.   

[pasdetrois]

On 7/29/2023 at 7:45 PM, zenithwit said:

This dynamic became more and more clear when they kept talking about the friction between the two productions and eventually had that HBO Exec order Meko to wear her mic. 

As I watched I wondered if Meko was so frustrated with the reality-TV shenanigans that she willfully began to resist.

Also, I guess she's an introvert and struggled to absorb the tsunami of criticism in a timely way.

The critics' weirdly robotic comments sounded as if they were generated by AI.

I lost respect for all of the producers for willingly setting up a women of color to fail publicly while they cashed big checks. I wonder what the rest of the community thinks about this.

Edited July 30, 2023 by pasdetrois

[zenithwit]

9 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

As I watched I wondered if Meko was so frustrated with the reality-TV shenanigans that she willfully began to resist.

Yeah and the super frustrating part is this is a show where we don't need producer shenanigans to have a dramatic and captivating show.  This isn't the Bachelor.  The most interesting parts to me were the very technical parts.  I loved seeing the actor auditions, Meko visiting the different filming locations and any of the behind the scenes shooting stuff from on set. 

Project Greenlight should take a note from shows like the Great British Baking Show and let the technical parts shine.  For example, I would love to have seen more from the Location Manager and learn why the getting the permit for that one outdoor location was so tough.  That would have been WAY better than seeing the producers give the "same" note over and over again (which somehow wasn't a deal breaker to the movie, it's production timeline and anyone controlling the purse strings but that's a whole other rant). 

[txhorns79]

On 7/18/2023 at 9:31 PM, TVbitch said:

And finally, are they kidding me with the cocaine nutcase who showed up to the meeting with her boobs hanging out and practically spewing confetti out of her mouth?

The only question I had when seeing her was whether her breasts were going to burst forth from the jacket that was barely covering them.  I have to think she was there solely because they thought she'd make good reality tv fodder.  

1 hour ago, zenithwit said:

I loved seeing the actor auditions,

It was interesting seeing some familiar faces auditioning (even if we saw little to nothing of their auditions).  I also liked the tension of Meko wanting a different actress for Aurora and HBO overruling her.  (Though I guess HBO was right, given the NY Times cited Mia Wallace's performance in the movie as the one that "almost keeps it watchable.")    

[Milburn Stone]

On 7/20/2023 at 7:41 AM, pasdetrois said:

Despite Issa stating otherwise, this is a reality TV show, not a documentary. I was so excited, especially after the nasty last season of the original PG, but I'm very disappointed.

 

I've only watched the first episode so far, but based on that, this season is phonier than a $3 bill.

I say "so far," because I probably am going to continue to hate-watch. More to watch these Hollywood phonies than the poor director they prey on. The only exec I kind of like is the quiet, reserved one from Blumhouse. (I think.)

[TVbitch]

Well, I only got to see the first three episodes, and I won't get to see anymore, cuz I don't have Max, but here is my overall take:

HooRae's younger staff, the two or three that kept busting Meko's balls, seemed like they came into it wanting her to fail and delighted in it. They came off looking really bad. BUT, I will say, Meko does have a flair for giving what I call "non-answers" when questioned by the production staff. That can be really frustrating, especially when working under time constraints. Meko would say she needs time to think about things or doesn't have answers yet, without giving any indication when she will have progress. Hopefully, as the show went on, she realized she cannot wait for comfortable time frames and conditions (such as wanting to hang out with her writer friends and bat around ideas about the script). She seemed to be stuck in one gear and it was not overdrive! 😬

How did the set designer end up doing? It seemed like Meko mostly liked that guy because he was not cranked to 11 like everyone else and she felt she could relax and hang with him.

[Milburn Stone]

Have now watched through Episode 6 (I think it was)--the one where Meko presents to the HBO exec. Her stepping up in the meeting, finally looking like she has a clue, put a new thought into my head--one which the show isn't allowing us to see. 

Here's the thought: She has always had a clue, but she--perhaps rightly, I'm not sure--is convinced that the subcontracted production crew are a bunch of lightweights. In her mind, she doesn't owe them any answers--she reports to HBO. Either she's known all along how to present herself and her vision and was deliberately holding back (she doesn't want input from the lightweights whom she has contempt for) or, what amounts to the same thing, only began to think seriously about the movie the night before the HBO presentation.

Edited to add: I see now that @pasdetrois is thinking on a similar track, with the speculation that Meko has had it with the reality-TV shenanigans. That could be it also. I think it would related to my guess that she disrespects the producers (possibly for good reason). The producers may be only out to make themselves look good for the cameras even if it means denigrating Meko. Either way, she concluded early on that they are not her friends.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Milburn Stone

[1011101010001]

It seems like everyone agreed the fundamental flaw was the script.  So who picked the screenwriter?  And why did they not pick someone local who could collaborate in person preproduction and be on set if necessary rather than someone from Rhode Island?  And if the script wasn’t ready for shooting maybe pick another script that was further along?  I don’t watch a lot of sci-fi but this script sounded pretty cliche like it had taken parts of different movies and slapped them together.

Why would they think a man would be the best person to write a script that turns on the intricacies of the relationship between a mother and daughter when he has been neither a mother nor a daughter?  And a white writer drafting a script about a Black family?  I’m not saying writers can’t write about people unlike them but if this season was about diversity why not start with a minority female screenwriter?  It’s not like this guy was such a great writer that no one else could deliver equivalent or better material.  

Also if your film is low budget maybe pick a script based in realism that doesn’t need expensive special effects or stunts.  And maybe not pick a script with so many night shoots.  They make all these poor choices then stick the director with the mess.

it seems like Meko physically left the project several times to clear her head.  I’m sure she was thinking about the film while gone and of course the subconscious is always solving  problems.  But it seemed like Gina basically called her lazy and undedicated several times because she wasn’t putting in “office time.”

I do think Meko was naive in saying she didn’t think filmmaking would be working by committee.  If you want total creative control, write a novel.

Edited August 29, 2023 by MrBuhBye