S01.E05: Stories We Tell Ourselves

[nodorothyparker]

Airdate 07.16.23. Streaming on AMC+. Proceed at your own risk for spoilers before airdate.

Quote

Truths are unearthed and motives are revealed as Maggie, Negan and the others travel further into the city's depths.

 

[OoohMaggie]

Well well well, I hoped it would come along and here it is, apart from a couple of de rigueur aspects which i'm not even going to bother mentioning, this was without doubt the best episode so far.

I really enjoyed this week, I have to say that even though I can't be considered as much of a Maggie fan 🥰, the character that Lauren is portraying and her acting of that character is honestly getting better and better.

There's no way this show will be finished at six episodes, there will be more to come.

The relationship between the Marshall and Negan, the new theatre lady super boss all offer promise of better things to come, I can't believe the difference between this and the previous four, but maybe its just me. 🤔

 

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by OoohMaggie

[Mr. Sparkle]

On 7/14/2023 at 7:33 PM, OoohMaggie said:

this was without doubt the best episode so far.

I agree with this.  

On 7/14/2023 at 7:33 PM, OoohMaggie said:

I can't believe the difference between this and the previous four, but maybe its just me. 🤔

I don't agree with this. It's gotten progressively better, but I don't see this episode being that much of a leap ahead. 

Story-wise, the Maggie double-cross with Ginny finding out was a cool touch. 

On 7/14/2023 at 7:33 PM, OoohMaggie said:

There's no way this show will be finished at six episodes, there will be more to come.

I sincerely hope not, it'll be totally lame if they're like "we killed the Croat, rescued Hershel and went back to the Winchester for a pint!" 

I'm not sad to see the cast of Rent go. They didn't really add anything and were just plot points. 

This is the first time I really noticed they were NOT in Manhattan. 

I hope Theater Boss lives up to her promise. 

[OoohMaggie]

9 hours ago, Superclam said:

but I don't see this episode being that much of a leap ahead. 

Maybe it was just me, maybe its the stunning executive production, maybe its the first episode I managed to watch from start to finish instead of in three minute sections, maybe its the large bottle of cider I unwisely wolfed down beforehand 🤢

9 hours ago, Superclam said:

I sincerely hope not

Things rarely get progressively better in WD world, maybe this is the one that'll live up to what the show could have been 🙄, either way I think it'll be coming, moving out of town to keep costs down obviously 💰

9 hours ago, Superclam said:

Winchester for a pint!" 

THE Winchester? 

A large VAT Dave..........Put it on the tab

[OoohMaggie]

8 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

I think it'll be coming,

Regarding my belief that Dead City 2 would undoubtedly be on its way, after my long absence from the forums or anything Walking Dead, I genuinely didn't know that a second series had already been pretty much confirmed, it was only this afternoon, after some digging, that I've stumbled across that information. Red face aside 😳, the prospect of more Maggie and hopefully an ever improving show is at least something to look forward to.

[Brown44]

They shot alot of Dead city in my town in Downtown Newark NJ and I this the episode where I can clearly see where they shot. 

And this the 1st time in all the TWD universe that they had a walker that looks like it could have been in a Resident Evil game.

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Brown44
Add comment.

[nodorothyparker]

The grosser than gross nesting doll walker was better before the showrunner tried to explain how he came up with it during the after the episode blurbs. It was one of the better horror set pieces we've seen over the franchise's run. Let it stand on its own.

Pretty good episode, although if you're telling a story in this format your penultimate episode should be better than everything that came before it. I think we probably already expected that Maggie had been less than completely honest in her insistence that it had to be Negan, only Negan could help her on this trip even if we weren't sure exactly how. I'd also already seen someone elsewhere posit this exact theory that she was lying about having Hilltop 2.0's food stolen after the Ginny escapes and somehow manages to magically track Negan into Manhattan episode noticing that none of these people seemed to be acting like people who had just been raided or were worried at all about food shortages. That seemed likely enough although it didn't really explain how the Croat and Marshal Dick fit into this. I'm also still not fully sure what the Croat and theater lady boss need or want with Negan that it was worth all of this setup beyond something something not wanting any outside attempts to reestablish any kind of civilization encroaching on their isolated hellhole, but they've got my attention and interest to find out as we head into a seemingly all but certain second season. Which with this franchise this far in is no small thing.

Interesting we get the darker reveal for Maggie (who was totally rocking the whole Resident Evil vibe this entire episode) at the same time Negan who could have reasonably been expected to nope on out of wasting any more time messing with Marshal Dick any further decided now was the time to play Boy Scout and not leave a man behind. The whole sequence of them chasing through the city to end up on the school bus felt a little isolated and more than a little long and I guess was supposed to finally give us a reason to understand or care about that character even while wondering why Negan would give him the time of day.

But, show, everything doesn't have to perfectly equate. While I appreciate the "stories we tell ourselves" metaphor of how things are rarely as black and white, as good or evil as we might think, it's not unreasonable to think there is a difference between doublecrossing the man who beat your husband to death and actually beating that husband to death while laughing about it.  I've mostly appreciated the much more nuanced less cartoon version of Negan this show has given us and trying to force the metaphor feels like backtracking.

[rmontro]

Yes, I've enjoyed the show so far.  But the thing that irritates me about it is that we've come five episodes now and we're essentially right back at square one.  One the outside looking in, and needing a plan for Negan and Maggie to rescue Herschel.  And I do expect that to happen this season, or I'm going to feel ripped off and tricked into watching it.

The reason I don't like the sherrif is he isn't one of our guys, and he isn't an enemy exactly, he's just an obstacle in the way of our characters completing their goals.  And I find that annoying.

 

12 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I think we probably already expected that Maggie had been less than completely honest in her insistence that it had to be Negan, only Negan could help her on this trip even if we weren't sure exactly how.

Did I miss something?  Wouldn't be the first time with this show.  I thought the idea was Negan was going to use his relationship with the Croat to distract him, while others pulled Herschel out.  Why do we think she's lying about?  I thought the "LIAR" Ginny painted referred to Maggie saying Negan was a monster (Ginny doesn't believe it).  And to a lesser extent a reference to her dinosaur doll, but I'm not exactly sure how.  This show gets muddy and confusing oft times.

Edited July 18, 2023 by rmontro

[Starchild]

9 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

The grosser than gross nesting doll walker was better before the showrunner tried to explain how he came up with it during the after the episode blurbs. It was one of the better horror set pieces we've seen over the franchise's run. Let it stand on its own.

I never watch those. Why are they doing those now anyway? Why not just go straight into the next show like they used to?

 

9 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I'm also still not fully sure what the Croat and theater lady boss need or want with Negan that it was worth all of this setup beyond something something not wanting any outside attempts to reestablish any kind of civilization encroaching on their isolated hellhole

My guess? They tricked Maggie into bringing him, making her think they wanted to kill him, because she wouldn't do it if she knew the real reason: they always admired his leadership and want him to create a new Sanctuary to keep the outside world from interfering with them. They're going to try to talk him into doing it all over again, make him the King. Tempting after all the crow he's had to eat over the last few years, no?

The Marshal is beginning to see shades of gray and may become his new Simon.

And of course, he'll keep Hershel and try to mentor him as he once did Carl. Setting up the massive eventual showdown with Maggie.

Many people have said they wanted a show that focused on the early years of Negan establishing the Sanctuary. Maybe that's what this is?

 

9 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Did I miss something?  Wouldn't be the first time with this show.  I thought the idea was Negan was going to use his relationship with the Croat to distract him, while others pulled Herschel out.  Why do we think she's lying about?  I thought the "LIAR" Ginny painted referred to Maggie saying Negan was a monster (Ginny doesn't believe it).  And to a lesser extent a reference to her dinosaur doll, but I'm not exactly sure how.  This show gets muddy and confusing oft times.

Maggie was lying about the food being stolen. Ginny climbed the tower and found it full of grain. Then they showed the Croat handing Maggie the wanted poster, telling us that he intended for her to bring Negan to the island all along.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Starchild

[rmontro]

27 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Maggie was lying about the food being stolen. Ginny climbed the tower and found it full of grain. Then they showed the Croat handing Maggie the wanted poster, telling us that he intended for her to bring Negan to the island all along.

Okay, i see.  I saw that sequence, but it didn't quite register with me.  So the Croat was basically saying "Bring me Negan", and then maybe she'd get Herschel back.  If that was the deal, seemed like Maggie could have sold out his position at any time.  Doesn't really make sense for them to go through with what they did.  I understand she didn't trust the Croat, but still the storytelling seems weak, just so they can spring a twist on us at the end.

[gutbuster]

Nothing has shocked me more than the fact that I'm rooting for Negan, especially when they keep making us relive the trauma of Glen getting clubbed to death. 

I am prematurely exhausted at the appearance of another villain. I was barely getting to caring less than nothing about the croat, I don't have any more ambivalence to spread around.

I'm not sure how I feel about the way Amaya and Tomaso died. It felt stupidly contrived even for this show. People are decades into this thing thinking 'let's take a siesta on this pile of corpses, what could go wrong?'. 

After throwing that walker at the Marshal, Negan might have gotten away if he hadn't shuffled off like an old man with a tiny bladder. Marshal had a gimpy leg and is fending off a corpse and still managed to catch Negan not even thirty seconds later. That was a really long hallway.

I don't like Ginny.

[Starchild]

16 minutes ago, gutbuster said:

I am prematurely exhausted at the appearance of another villain.

The Queen of the Opera reminded me of the following, in no particular order:

• Patti LuPone
• Laurie Metcalf
• Frances Conroy
• Sarah Paulson

In the most awesome ways, of course.

[heisenberg]

38 minutes ago, gutbuster said:

Nothing has shocked me more than the fact that I'm rooting for Negan, especially when they keep making us relive the trauma of Glen getting clubbed to death. 

I am prematurely exhausted at the appearance of another villain. I was barely getting to caring less than nothing about the croat, I don't have any more ambivalence to spread around.

I'm not sure how I feel about the way Amaya and Tomaso died. It felt stupidly contrived even for this show. People are decades into this thing thinking 'let's take a siesta on this pile of corpses, what could go wrong?'. 

After throwing that walker at the Marshal, Negan might have gotten away if he hadn't shuffled off like an old man with a tiny bladder. Marshal had a gimpy leg and is fending off a corpse and still managed to catch Negan not even thirty seconds later. That was a really long hallway.

I don't like Ginny.

That's how I also feel about this episode and the serie in general.

[nodorothyparker]

It's hard not to feel pre-emptively exhausted by villains at this point in this long long running franchise because it's almost always some rinse and repeat variation of crazy's gonna crazy with no plausible explanation or motive beyond that. Ironically Negan and the Saviors were one of the few groups in recent memory that did make sense, but they were so cartoonishly over the top that they mostly negated the reality that a warlord with muscle and charisma likely would rise up in the absence of a central authority. We've been shown over and over throughout the various shows in the franchise that people will put up with and go along with quite a bit for order and safety and relative comfort.

The building blocks are definitely here for something. We haven't seen enough of New Babylon to know much about it yet, but we can probably assume that if they've got the manpower and resources to send a posse after Negan complete with old timey wanted posters, they've already mastered picking up the trash and making the proverbial trains run on time. I'm not sure what resources a bombed out walker infested NYC is going to have to make it worth the effort of reclaiming it, but I took from the scene of the Croat and the theater boss lady that they consider it a real possible threat. The problem, of course, is that the franchise has a track record of beyond terrible follow though after introducing interesting premises and intriguing bits of worldbuilding. As a whole this show has done better on that front, but there still isn't a lot of trust there that whatever it shows us won't quickly devolve into a lot of ridiculousness and nothing.

[rmontro]

5 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

The problem, of course, is that the franchise has a track record of beyond terrible follow though after introducing interesting premises and intriguing bits of worldbuilding. 

I may not be a typical viewer, but the main series is over.  They seem to want to build an entire new universe to set their various shows in.  I'm here for a six episode series, tell me a direct story and get out, I don't care about whatever plans they have to milk this thing dry.  I'm here because I like Maggie and Negan, and a six episode series sounds painless enough.

[Mr. Sparkle]

7 hours ago, rmontro said:

I may not be a typical viewer, but the main series is over.  They seem to want to build an entire new universe to set their various shows in.  I'm here for a six episode series, tell me a direct story and get out, I don't care about whatever plans they have to milk this thing dry.  I'm here because I like Maggie and Negan, and a six episode series sounds painless enough.

They are planning to squeeze every drop of milk out of this they can, and then they're going to squeeze it some more. Look for a Hershel and Judith variety show in 2030. 

[nodorothyparker]

It's not a new universe though. It's a continuation of the same one populated at least in part by the same characters from the original show, now just split among several different shows with what increasingly looks like different pieces of the same puzzle. It's still all under the same umbrella. I mean FTWD deliberately gave Morgan an exit that really only makes sense or provides any sort of resolution if he just happens to pop back up on another spinoff after years of acting like he had forgotten his in-franchise origins, for gods' sakes.

I've liked this show a whole lot more than I honestly had any reason to expect. It's had a better tighter focus and been all the better for it instead of throwing 5 million characters at the screen and expecting us to know or care about any of them. It definitely has potential to go some distance if handled correctly.  But it's obvious AMC/the WD franchise intends to ride this pony into the ground. They've spent a lot of money/fan capital banking on it.

[Starchild]

15 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

The problem, of course, is that the franchise has a track record of beyond terrible follow though after introducing interesting premises and intriguing bits of worldbuilding. 

Ha, wouldn't it be funny (not) if they pulled a "Fear" and S2 starts with Negan already in charge of a new Sanctuary in NYC, with throwaway comments about how he took over and married the theatre boss and made the Croat his right hand man and Maggie is already in some jail cell and they don't bother to show how any of it happened with flashbacks.

[margol29]

Oh I loved seeing the actress that played crazy Darlene Snell on Ozark in Dead City! I can see her channeling Darlene into a more sophisticated kind of crazy. Just don't call her a Redneck! 🫣🤐😧  

[heisenberg]

On 7/19/2023 at 1:24 PM, margol29 said:

Oh I loved seeing the actress that played crazy Darlene Snell on Ozark in Dead City! I can see her channeling Darlene into a more sophisticated kind of crazy. Just don't call her a Redneck! 🫣🤐😧  

Maybe she wants to keep Hershel as her child and call him Zeke?😬

[Iguessnot]

Why didn't Maggie use the oxygen even after her suspicions were allayed? It made her dizziness appear to be grandiose self sabotage.

[OoohMaggie]

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