The Jeffersons - General Discussion

[Blergh]

Isabel Sanford and Sherman Hemsley starred in this series about the further adventures of the  AITF Bunkers' former neighbors, Louise and George Jefferson who, as George never failed to remind everyone, had worked their way from Harlem to Queens to finally the 'deluxe apartment in the sky' of Manhattan's East Side. George, especially, believed this move had made their dreams come true but Louise wasn't so sure or as comfortable in their new surroundings. As fiscally savvy as George had been, he wound up causing a great many new problems for them- in no small part due to his lack of  filter. Among other targets was Mr. Bentley the English next-door neighbor   as well as Tom and Helen Willis (who lived one floor up) who George disliked due to them being a biracial couple. Even the engagement and marriage of their respective offspring Lionel and Jenny did little to spur George to be more tolerant.  Of course, while all the above adored Louise (who herself pulled no punches when she thought George was out of line), the exception was her mother-in-law Olivia 'Mother' Jefferson, the elderly matriarch who  (unlike George) had excellent diction and (unlike Louise) always wore the fanciest attire and often a mink coat but who rarely if ever passed up a chance to put down her daughter-in-law. Completing the crew were Ralph the Doorman (who openly fawned for big tips) and, last but by no means least, the Jeffersons' live-in housekeeper Florence Johnston (who George had hired over Louise's objections but wound up getting along great with Louise but constantly going at it with George).

While it was a bit broader than AITF, it was definitely a landmark series and also quite funny!

Edited February 23, 2023 by Blergh

[andidante]

I never understood why George's mother was so mean to Louise! I loved Florence!

[Blergh]

On 2/21/2023 at 6:23 PM, andidante said:

I never understood why George's mother was so mean to Louise! I loved Florence!

As best I could tell, George's father William had died when George was about nine (and I'm not even sure whether his AITF brother Henry was still  existed) so Olivia had focused everything on supporting and caring for George and, as soon as he could, George helped provide for her. IOW, she'd gotten so used to George taking care of her that she didn't want any potential wife to possibly displace her in the hierarchy (or share in any potential windfall).Then, too, she once mentioned that SHE had had a difficult, hypercritical mother-in-law but evidently was oblivious to how she'd done the same to Louise. Maybe the taller, big-boned Louise might have resembled William's mother- especially if George's brother Henry still existed  (who was taller, big-boned and, it must be said, of a darker complexion than either George or  their mother Olivia). Pure speculation.

BTW, Zara Cully (Olivia 'Mother' Jefferson) and Isabel Sanford had been longtime friends and Miss Cully would object to having to be so 'mean to' Louise but Miss Sanford pointed out that for the comedy to work that's how it had to be.

Florence was terrific! Of course, it needs to be mentioned that she was supposed to be a one-shot character (and supposedly a super-efficient maid) who it seemed was about to be shown the door in favor of Louise's friend  Diane (Pauline Myers [1913-1996])who was also a maid for the Willises. But then after Florence put together that Louise and Helen BOTH were living in the high-rise, she exclaimed, "How come we overcame and nobody told me?!'

Well, Marla Gibbs (born 1931) gave that scripted line such unbelievable OOMPH that not just the studio audience but the entire cast broke up- so they wisely decided  the comedy would work MUCH better if the Jeffersons had a maid with 'tude than with her just being a straight woman (as Diane seemed to be).

Edited February 23, 2023 by Blergh

[EtheltoTillie]

I love the show. So well written and acted. 

[FaginZorro]

The Jeffersons found its footing two or three years into its 11-year run, when it stopped trying to use the formula of making George the black Archie Bunker.

George calling Jenny and her brother, "Zebra" was offensive, even for the time. George calling every white person Honky was offensive and increasingly less impactful and meaningless. 

The common sense, relatability and warmth of the Louise/Weezy character come through loud and clear. Even when irritated with George and Mother Jefferson, Weezy was relatable and did NOT overplay it. Sanford's facial expressions and line readings were gold. An actor at the top of her game. Weezy was always well dressed and well-coiffed (wigged) and wearing nice makeup that was appropriate for her character. Ms. Sanford had nice teeth and a lovely smile. I would have loved to have seen Isabel in other roles.

Sherman (cocky and abrasive), Isabel (wise, sensible, loving and patient) and Olivia (Mother Jefferson) (coy, entitled) played their roles to perfection. TV critic Tom Shales of the Washington Post loved Sherman and this appreciation was well merited: Sherman was great as George, especially his strutting walk and the energy with which he spoke. Later on, Sherman did great with the character of Deacon Frye in Amen. Remember the commercial Isabel and Sherman did for Denny's in the 1990s?

Both Lionels/Evans were, for the most part, flat and uninteresting (actually Damon was more energetic than Mike), as was the character of Jenny. An up-and-coming supporting actor should project a certain level of humor, interestingness and energy that I found lacking in these three.

Franklin Cover (Tom) made the most of the affability and congeniality of his character, even though the George character was often out and out insulting and deserved a butt whuppin' for the things he said and all of his slamming doors in people's faces. I do not know how the character of Bently put up with this behavior.

Ms. Roker played her role well. It is my understanding that Roker (Helen) was an outstanding and sensitive mother to Lenny Kravitz.

It was great to see Marla Gibbs' further success with 227; she was really able to carry that show along with the support of Jackee and the great Regina King.

My favorite episode might be the Halloween episode with George as Charlie Chaplin, Weezy as Mae West, Florence as Harpo Marx, The Willises as Laurel and Hardy and Bently as some British character.

Rolling Stone recently listed The Jeffersons Theme song as #1 of TV show theme songs.

I really get a kick out of seeing The Jeffersons on Antenna TV and re-watching it with fresh eyes. Given all of the money the show made for CBS, it is a crying shame that it was canceled so suddenly. There was not a reunion show or a retrospective. But I am nonetheless grateful for 11 years of good entertainment, acting, and writing.

[bluegirl147]

52 minutes ago, FaginZorro said:

My favorite episode might be the Halloween episode with George as Charlie Chaplin, Weezy as Mae West, Florence as Harpo Marx, The Willises as Laurel and Hardy and Bently as some British character.

Was this the episode when Louise sees a murder across the street?  I loved that episode.

My favorite episodes are the Mission Impossible three parter when George and Tom get scammed and they go to LA to get the money back.

[Ananayel]

I remember seeing Sherman Hemsley on The Surreal Life, and was pleasantly surprised that not only was he nothing like George Jefferson, he was the sweetest, kindest, biggest-hearted man. Total sweetheart, and boy what an actor to be able to so convincingly play someone so opposite his true character.

[FaginZorro]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

Was this the episode when Louise sees a murder across the street?  I loved that episode.

My favorite episodes are the Mission Impossible three parter when George and Tom get scammed and they go to LA to get the money back.

Yes Blue girl that is the one. The murdering bunny tries to locate Louise to take care of her before she can identify him. 

I also loved the episode with Greg Morris and Garret Morris taking place in LA where Tom's money for the vacation home was scammed and they try to get it back. Fun times!

[TheLastKidPicked]

24 minutes ago, Ananayel said:

I remember seeing Sherman Hemsley on The Surreal Life, and was pleasantly surprised that not only was he nothing like George Jefferson, he was the sweetest, kindest, biggest-hearted man. Total sweetheart, and boy what an actor to be able to so convincingly play someone so opposite his true character.

Sherman said in an interview that this made playing George Jefferson difficult.  The swagger was a large part of George's persona and this swagger was out of character for Sherman Hemsley.

 

[Snow Apple]

Two of my favorite episodes were flashbacks. One was when Louise went to the apartment building where she grew up and we see scenes of her as a child, as a teen, and as bride. 

The other is the flashback showing the opening of Jefferson Cleaners. It was told from the point of view of their first dollar bill earned. Their first customer was a rich lady and in the end, we find she's still a customer but fallen to hard times since her husband passed away. She ask if George can put her bill on her tab and he said of course, but he ripped up the bill after she left. 

ETA I hated Mother Jefferson and how she treated Louise. I don't watch episodes she's in because she gets my blood boiling. Although there were a few (very few) times that she defended Louise and that's when you know George went too far even for her. LOL

Edited February 24, 2023 by Snow Apple

[Egg McMuffin]

On 2/23/2023 at 12:54 PM, FaginZorro said:

Yes Blue girl that is the one. The murdering bunny tries to locate Louise to take care of her before she can identify him.

I was about 10 years old when that one aired, and it scared me!

[Blergh]

20 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Two of my favorite episodes were flashbacks. One was when Louise went to the apartment building where she grew up and we see scenes of her as a child, as a teen, and as bride. 

The other is the flashback showing the opening of Jefferson Cleaners. It was told from the point of view of their first dollar bill earned. Their first customer was a rich lady and in the end, we find she's still a customer but fallen to hard times since her husband passed away. She ask if George can put her bill on her tab and he said of course, but he ripped up the bill after she left. 

ETA I hated Mother Jefferson and how she treated Louise. I don't watch episodes she's in because she gets my blood boiling. Although there were a few (very few) times that she defended Louise and that's when you know George went too far even for her. LOL

I liked how, when Louise first returned to her childhood apartment, seeing it having become so dilapidated, she mused 'Thank God my mother didn't live to see it like this. She's have made me clean it up!' . Then how she had had a rocky relationship with the older woman growing up until her mother finally told her on her wedding day that she DID love Louise but just wanted her to do her best. It would have been interesting to have seen Mrs. Mills interact with Mother Jefferson on their children's wedding day even though Miss Cully had since died. Still, I can imagine that Olivia would have been a somewhat striking middle-aged woman at that point and they could have recast for that flashback.

I always liked Mother Jefferson. Maybe because she was this dainty person who didn't seem the least intimidated by her somewhat larger daughter-in-law(not unlike how tiny Sophia Petrillo would rule over the towering Dorothy). As a kid watching, I  liked it when someone smaller didn't let others' larger size stop them! Yes, I know she was unfair and mean to Louise (and, as I said, didn't like the idea of ANY woman possibly displacing her status as 'queen mother'). However, I can imagine that she had had to work very hard to support herself and George from the time he was a boy having been widowed early AND she herself had made sure she'd moved on up via always appearing as fancy as possible. IOW, she didn't feel discomfited but was HAPPY to reap her son's bounty after all those decades of struggle.I also liked how she had the best diction of the whole cast (and Miss Cully had been reknowed for it in the African-American performing circles from the 1940's onward). Oh, and unlike George, she was NOT prejudiced but was happy to befriend all the Willises & Mr. Bentley and even doted on Ralph the Doorman! She even was an item with Tom Willis's elderly uncle for a time! I believe that, as long as she got treated with respect due her as an elder woman, she was willing to give anyone not Louise a chance! I also think that deep down she DID like and even love Louise but wasn't quite willing to let go her hierarchial turf status! BTW, my paternal grandmother (who wasn't the most fair-minded of people) watched this show because she loved 'the spoiled mother' (something she herself could relate to).  Miss Cully herself had come from a socially  prominent African-American family in Worchester, Massachussetts and had been widowed and become a grandmother by the time of The Jeffersons (and, her surviving family have said that she was a loving mother-in-law to her own daughters-in-law).

[Snow Apple]

Ha! Ralph the doorman. There was a dream episode of the future where he became rich and may even own the apartment building but he still had his hands out for a tip. Old habits die hard, even in a dream.

[januaryman]

Mother Jefferson teamed up with Louise against George when he didn't hire a white woman (Mrs Rossini from Who's the Boss) to manage his cleaning store, and she saved Louise from being sexually assualted by Louis Gossett Jr. 

[Blergh]

Of course, perhaps the biggest irony about the late Sherman Hemsley is that virtually all of his colleagues have said he was an extremely shy, introverted and insecure person offstage. Marla Gibbs even went so far as to say that he'd claim to not know the lines but she'd tell him he'd get them once they started taping. ..and he always DID with flawless timing as the brash, cocky George Jefferson. He and Isabel Sanford also said that they both were sad to be leaving their AITF colleagues and had considered them their friends- quite the contrast to George with Archie especially!

[FaginZorro]

On 2/24/2023 at 12:03 PM, Snow Apple said:

Two of my favorite episodes were flashbacks. One was when Louise went to the apartment building where she grew up and we see scenes of her as a child, as a teen, and as bride. 

Yes Snow Apple I too like this episode and I am pleased that the producers gave the Louise character an episode focusing on her concerns and background. This episode was probably around year 8 or 9 of the series and by this time viewers knew and loved Weezy: warm, kind and relatable. I am particularly pleased that the producers had the good judgment to hire young actresses who resembled a younger version of Ms. Sanford. The feeling of nostalgia was pervasive in this episode and this was kind of unusual for a Jeffersons episode which was usually farce and slapstick. I am especially glad that George and Weezy were given backstories, especially the one about Louise's sister Maxine.

[Yogisbooboo64]

On 2/26/2023 at 8:09 PM, FaginZorro said:

One was when Louise went to the apartment building where she grew up and we see scenes of her as a child, as a teen, and as bride.

And The Doorknobs Shined Like Diamonds....yeah, that's a classic.

UO but I could...not...stand Florence!  She's the frickin' help and barely did anything other than talk back to her BOSS!

Didn't like Mr. Bentley either, he was an annoying gnat.  

Fave characters were Louise, George and Tom.  I liked Helen but not the way she sometimes treated Tom and I hated how Tom became buffoonish in the later years, always thinking about food.

[Egg McMuffin]

On 2/26/2023 at 3:21 PM, Blergh said:

Of course, perhaps the biggest irony about the late Sherman Hemsley is that virtually all of his colleagues have said he was an extremely shy, introverted and insecure person offstage. Marla Gibbs even went so far as to say that he'd claim to not know the lines but she'd tell him he'd get them once they started taping. ..and he always DID with flawless timing as the brash, cocky George Jefferson. He and Isabel Sanford also said that they both were sad to be leaving their AITF colleagues and had considered them their friends- quite the contrast to George with Archie especially!

I read an interview with Isabel Sanford where she said she initially declined the spinoff because she liked doing AITF. And the producers told her, “Well, you’re leaving All in the Family anyway.” So then she warmed up to the spinoff idea.

[Blergh]

8 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

I read an interview with Isabel Sanford where she said she initially declined the spinoff because she liked doing AITF. And the producers told her, “Well, you’re leaving All in the Family anyway.” So then she warmed up to the spinoff idea.

I always thought they should have invited Edith especially to see their new place. I know that it was a new show,setting but I can't see what it would have hurt to have had Edith see where Louise was living. ..or even had her invited to their 2nd wedding ceremony -or for that matter to Lionel's wedding. Yeah, I know Archie showed he was too crass to get invited anywhere nice but Edith had been a wonderful friend to all of them!

Edited March 15, 2023 by Blergh

[bluegirl147]

12 hours ago, Blergh said:

I always thought they should have invited Edith especially to see their new place.

Did Edith or for that matter Archie ever leave Queens?  It's been forever since I watched any AITF episodes but I don't even remember them referencing anything related to the rest of NYC.

Come to think of it did the George or Louise ever reference living in Queens?  

[HyeChaps]

Archie rode the subway with Gloria and Mike to The Bronx. 

[Egg McMuffin]

There’s an episode where Archie and Edith travel to Atlantic City for a second honeymoon. They also go to visit cousin Maude in Tuckahoe, a suburb of NY. And they visit Mike and Gloria in Santa Barbara.

There is a clip show episode of The Jeffersons where they use one from All in the Family where Archie and Edith appear. But neither of them ever visit “live”. I know Jean Stapleton was anxious to do other things in later years of AITF, so it’s hard to see her doing that same role on another show, even if she had been asked.

[Blergh]

FWIW, in at least one interview, Miss Sanford expressed her annoyance at the fact that more than one would-be admirer mistook her for Esther Rolle (Florida Evans on Maude and Good Times) and even followed her closely after Miss Sanford's initial denials of being Miss Rolle. Not only did Miss Sanford relay this in a deadly serious tone but she didn't attempt to soften it by claiming that she and Miss Rolle were friends and/or that Miss Sanford admired Miss Rolle's work despite being mistaken for her. Irony is that a few years after Miss Sanford had started playing Louise, she appeared on The Carol Burnett Show when they did a spoof of Maude playing the title character's would-be housekeeper called New Jersey instead of Florida! I wonder if any of those confused admirers might have seen that spoof and somehow equated Miss Sanford's character parody to Miss Rolle?

[Scarlett45]

On 2/23/2023 at 9:29 AM, FaginZorro said:

It was great to see Marla Gibbs' further success with 227; she was really able to carry that show along with the support of Jackee and the great Regina King

I agree. 

On 2/23/2023 at 9:29 AM, FaginZorro said:

George calling Jenny and her brother, "Zebra" was offensive, even for the time. George calling every white person Honky was offensive and increasingly less impactful and meaningless. 

I found George unlikeable a lot of the time, for the reasons above. 

[Blergh]

On 3/16/2023 at 8:39 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I agree. 

I found George unlikeable a lot of the time, for the reasons above. 

Yeah, I have to agree that that was a definite hashmark!  FWIW, Mr. Hemsley himself protested George calling Tom 'honky' long after the characters were supposed to have become friends  but it would be some years before the writers relented (and I believe Mr. Hemsley and all this colleagues got along well with each other) . FWIW, maybe I was in a bubble but I've NEVER heard anyone beside George use that term.

Also,I agree  it was a bit much he'd call his daughter-in-law that other term- especially since he and his own mother were themselves of a noticeably lighter complexion than Jenny was! I was always hoping the more fair-minded (to all but Louise) Mother Jefferson would have told him the nitty gritty of their own family history from not that many generations back!

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, Blergh said:

Yeah, I have to agree that that was a definite hashmark!  FWIW, Mr. Hemsley himself protested George calling Tom 'honky' long after the characters were supposed to have become friends  but it would be some years before the writers relented (and I believe Mr. Hemsley and all this colleagues got along well with each other) . FWIW, maybe I was in a bubble but I've NEVER heard anyone beside George use that term.

Also,I agree  it was a bit much he'd call his daughter-in-law that other term- especially since he and his own mother were themselves of a noticeably lighter complexion than Jenny was! I was always hoping the more fair-minded (to all but Louise) Mother Jefferson would have told him the nitty gritty of their own family history from not that many generations back!

I have heard parents generation use that term, it’s a pejorative so I wasn’t a fan. Calling people names just makes me think less of the speaker. 

[Egg McMuffin]

I saw a late-season episode of the show a number of months back, and was kind of surprised when George referred to Tom as his “best friend”! Might have been the Mission: Impossible spoof.

[Blergh]

On 3/20/2023 at 6:08 PM, Egg McMuffin said:

I saw a late-season episode of the show a number of months back, and was kind of surprised when George referred to Tom as his “best friend”! Might have been the Mission: Impossible spoof.

That was the one- and it featured SNL alum Garrett Morris (who been a semi-regular incompetent goofy employee named Jimmy) and his 'cousin' Greg Morris who played the serious secret agent that somehow got George and Tom involved in a mission. Of course, the two Morris performers weren't actually related and had been from very different genres but somehow Jimmy being around kept it from getting too serious!