Season 13: Hello Arthur Branch!

[Xeliou66]

I watched Chosen again recently - I love this episode, Dworkin is such an entertaining character, one of my favorite defense lawyers. Jack was great too in this episode - his closing was spot on - Dworkin was doing a strong magic act in trying to hide the facts of the case and make the murder disappear and make the case about anti Semitism and violence in Israel, and Jack made it clear that the defendant was guilty and that Dworkin wasn’t even denying it - the case was about a bookie killing over money and not about anything else, and I was glad the jury saw through Dworkin’s act and convicted the killer. I have to say I did not feel any sympathy for the killer - if he wanted to help people in Israel there are plenty of ways of doing so without resorting to theft and murder. And the guy’s wife was a bigot - I thought it was brilliant when Jack asked if she thought the murder would be justified if the victim was Jewish, it exposed her as a bigot who thought some lives were more valuable than others and she lost sympathy with that.

Serena though irritated me as she frequently did - she implied Jack was a bigot at one point in the episode and that was way out of bounds, nothing Jack said was bigoted. It was Dworkin who was making the case about ethnicity and trying to manipulate Jewish jurors into having sympathy for his client. Serena was just so damn whiny so much of the time.

And the judge was a big joke - he allowed Dworkin, the killer and the wife to turn his courtroom into a soapbox just because he agreed with their point of view. I loved when Jack stormed off leaving Serena to apologize for him after he basically told the judge he was making up the law.

It’s one of my favorite season 13 episodes - no notable flaws in it, with very entertaining courtroom scenes and a good investigation - Briscoe/Green are the best detective pairing in L&O history and no one will come close to matching them IMO. 

[andromeda331]

40 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I watched Chosen again recently - I love this episode, Dworkin is such an entertaining character, one of my favorite defense lawyers. Jack was great too in this episode - his closing was spot on - Dworkin was doing a strong magic act in trying to hide the facts of the case and make the murder disappear and make the case about anti Semitism and violence in Israel, and Jack made it clear that the defendant was guilty and that Dworkin wasn’t even denying it - the case was about a bookie killing over money and not about anything else, and I was glad the jury saw through Dworkin’s act and convicted the killer. I have to say I did not feel any sympathy for the killer - if he wanted to help people in Israel there are plenty of ways of doing so without resorting to theft and murder. And the guy’s wife was a bigot - I thought it was brilliant when Jack asked if she thought the murder would be justified if the victim was Jewish, it exposed her as a bigot who thought some lives were more valuable than others and she lost sympathy with that.

Serena though irritated me as she frequently did - she implied Jack was a bigot at one point in the episode and that was way out of bounds, nothing Jack said was bigoted. It was Dworkin who was making the case about ethnicity and trying to manipulate Jewish jurors into having sympathy for his client. Serena was just so damn whiny so much of the time.

And the judge was a big joke - he allowed Dworkin, the killer and the wife to turn his courtroom into a soapbox just because he agreed with their point of view. I loved when Jack stormed off leaving Serena to apologize for him after he basically told the judge he was making up the law.

It’s one of my favorite season 13 episodes - no notable flaws in it, with very entertaining courtroom scenes and a good investigation - Briscoe/Green are the best detective pairing in L&O history and no one will come close to matching them IMO. 

It's a really great episode. The killer was a horrible person. As you pointed out there were a lot of other ways to raise money for Israel? There's a lot of people in the country that were pro-Israel he would have made a lot more money. His wife was just as horrible.  She didn't care about the murder becaue the man wasn't Jewish. 

Serena was an idiot. Jack has always gone after people who use their faith as justification or to hide their crime. This was nothing new or even surprising.

The judge should have recused himself. He was clearly bias. When that didn't happen Jack should have been able to get him forced to recuse.

[Xeliou66]

8 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

It's a really great episode. The killer was a horrible person. As you pointed out there were a lot of other ways to raise money for Israel? There's a lot of people in the country that were pro-Israel he would have made a lot more money. His wife was just as horrible.  She didn't care about the murder becaue the man wasn't Jewish. 

Serena was an idiot. Jack has always gone after people who use their faith as justification or to hide their crime. This was nothing new or even surprising.

The judge should have recused himself. He was clearly bias. When that didn't happen Jack should have been able to get him forced to recuse.

Yes it’s a fantastic episode - the courtroom scenes are some of the best, Dworkin is such an entertaining character - he’s probably my favorite defense attorney on the show. 
The killer wasn’t sympathetic at all to me, there are plenty of ways to raise money for humanitarian causes without stealing and committing murder to cover it up. He claimed to be so disturbed by violence but he stabbed a man to death to cover up his theft. Him and his wife were horrible people, the wife didn’t care because she saw the victim as beneath them because he was the muscle end of the gambling operation and because he wasn’t of their ethnicity. I thought Jack did a great job of cross examining both the defendant and his wife. 

Serena should’ve been more offended by Dworkin trying to get as many Jewish people on the jury as possible, hoping they would be more likely to ignore a murder since the defendant was claiming he did it to help fellow Jews, than about anything Jack said. And yeah Jack has never tolerated people using their faith/beliefs as an excuse to break the law, that is one of Jack’s main pet peeves, along with hate crimes/abuse of power/vigilantism. Serena seemed to enjoy being disagreeable and whiny. 

It’s hard to get a judge off of a case, even though he was clearly biased, because the DA’s would just have to go to another judge and try to complain and judges tend to stick together. Remember the season 19 episode with the judge with dementia who was blatantly not capable of presiding over a case, it took exposing his dementia in open court before he was removed. Any judge worth his salt wouldn’t have let the defense turn the courtroom into a soapbox, but it was clear this guy agreed with every word the defense was saying.

Another scene I love from the episode is when Dworkin tried to get a deal saying he had named of prominent people involved in the gambling operation and Arthur asked if the defendant was guilty and asked if anyone in the room had their name in the book and then said “then convict the SOB”. I like how Arthur didn’t let anyone push his office around. 

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes it’s a fantastic episode - the courtroom scenes are some of the best, Dworkin is such an entertaining character - he’s probably my favorite defense attorney on the show. 
The killer wasn’t sympathetic at all to me, there are plenty of ways to raise money for humanitarian causes without stealing and committing murder to cover it up. He claimed to be so disturbed by violence but he stabbed a man to death to cover up his theft. Him and his wife were horrible people, the wife didn’t care because she saw the victim as beneath them because he was the muscle end of the gambling operation and because he wasn’t of their ethnicity. I thought Jack did a great job of cross examining both the defendant and his wife. 

Dworkin is one of my favorites too. I also really like Gold because he was the only one to ever throw Stone off his game. 

Yeah, the murderer was trying to justify him murdering a man as a noble reason but nothing he did was noble. He killed his partner because his partner was going to turn him in for embezzling. That's not good or anything. It's a common criminal killing to keep himself from going to jail.

I'm really glad the jury convicted him. Dworkin assumed they would feel sympathy. But it didn't work. I'm glad it didn't. If anything I think the jury was more offended by Dworkin thinking they would ignore a murder because the murderer was Jewish. 

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It’s hard to get a judge off of a case, even though he was clearly biased, because the DA’s would just have to go to another judge and try to complain and judges tend to stick together. Remember the season 19 episode with the judge with dementia who was blatantly not capable of presiding over a case, it took exposing his dementia in open court before he was removed. Any judge worth his salt wouldn’t have let the defense turn the courtroom into a soapbox, but it was clear this guy agreed with every word the defense was saying.

I know. It's hard in real life and in TV the judge who kept sexually harassing Jamie and showed bias first for the prosecution and then turned on them because he was mad at Jack. He was only taken off the case. It probably would be the same with the judge. It's too bad it's so hard when judges are so clearly bias.

 

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Another scene I love from the episode is when Dworkin tried to get a deal saying he had named of prominent people involved in the gambling operation and Arthur asked if the defendant was guilty and asked if anyone in the room had their name in the book and then said “then convict the SOB”. I like how Arthur didn’t let anyone push his office around. 

I love that scene too. Dworkin had a good plan. There's no doubt prominent people would be involve in the gambling operation. Most likely as customers. There usually is. And they wouldn't want it to get out. I love Arthur's response to that. Adam would have made the same decision. I love how they rarely hesitated to go after prominent or not let it get in the way of a case. 

[Xeliou66]

21 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Dworkin is one of my favorites too. I also really like Gold because he was the only one to ever throw Stone off his game. 

Yeah, the murderer was trying to justify him murdering a man as a noble reason but nothing he did was noble. He killed his partner because his partner was going to turn him in for embezzling. That's not good or anything. It's a common criminal killing to keep himself from going to jail.

I'm really glad the jury convicted him. Dworkin assumed they would feel sympathy. But it didn't work. I'm glad it didn't. If anything I think the jury was more offended by Dworkin thinking they would ignore a murder because the murderer was Jewish. 

I know. It's hard in real life and in TV the judge who kept sexually harassing Jamie and showed bias first for the prosecution and then turned on them because he was mad at Jack. He was only taken off the case. It probably would be the same with the judge. It's too bad it's so hard when judges are so clearly bias.

 

I love that scene too. Dworkin had a good plan. There's no doubt prominent people would be involve in the gambling operation. Most likely as customers. There usually is. And they wouldn't want it to get out. I love Arthur's response to that. Adam would have made the same decision. I love how they rarely hesitated to go after prominent or not let it get in the way of a case. 

Dworkin was really entertaining to watch - he had a way of charming the jury and passionately defending clients even when the evidence was strong against them. I wish he would pop back up on the Mothership revival or SVU, he appeared on SVU a few years ago so maybe he’ll be back.

The judge in this episode was very biased but he didn’t do anything blatantly over the line the way Judge Marks in ID did - Marks was off his rocker, and his sexual comments to Jamie and his direct questioning of witnesses and his pompous attitude were enough to get the judge Adam went to to toss him off the case. But it was pitiful how this judge allowed the defense to ramble on about issues in Israel that had nothing to do with the case.

I was glad the jury saw through the fog of smoke Dworkin threw at them and convicted the killer, and yeah Dworkin’s strategy might’ve backfired some as many Jewish people would be offended that Dworkin would try to use their ethnicity to set a killer free. Jack’s closing was spot on and Serena should’ve been more offended by Dworkin trying to manipulate Jewish jurors with the stuff about Israel than about anything Jack said. Serena implying Jack was somehow a bigot really irritated me, as did Serena saying that the killer could embarrass prominent people by revealing their gambling involvement, one reason why I loved Arthur’s response that he basically didn’t give a fuck and wanted the guy convicted.

I also loved the investigation by Briscoe/Green, they are unmatched when it comes to detective pairings, I liked how they went through the suspects before zeroing in on the killer after seeing the restaurant knives were the same as the murder weapon. I also love the start with the drunk Wall St douchebags discovering the body and Lennie’s quip that they weren’t far off from being common criminals. Briscoe/Green are so enjoyable to watch. 

[TakomaSnark]

Watching 'The Ring' on Pop. I think if I ever focused enough to come up with a top fifteen episodes of mothership, this would be in there.

[Xeliou66]

Just now, TakomaSnark said:

Watching 'The Ring' on Pop. I think if I ever focused enough to come up with a top fifteen episodes of mothership, this would be in there.

The Ring is a good one, I liked the twists and turns the plot took, and Serena had one of her best moments at the end when she realized the truth about the case. Lennie had a good moment as well when he realized what the password would be. Of course Briscoe/Green are always fun to watch. 
I wouldn’t rank it as highly as you would though, my favorites from season 13 are Asterisk, Chosen and Kid Pro Quo. But there are a lot of good ones, can’t go wrong with Briscoe/Green. 

[TakomaSnark]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The Ring is a good one, I liked the twists and turns the plot took, and Serena had one of her best moments at the end when she realized the truth about the case. Lennie had a good moment as well when he realized what the password would be. Of course Briscoe/Green are always fun to watch. 
I wouldn’t rank it as highly as you would though, my favorites from season 13 are Asterisk, Chosen and Kid Pro Quo. But there are a lot of good ones, can’t go wrong with Briscoe/Green. 

This probably isn't the place for the discussion but I honestly wouldn't go with Asterisk, Chosen and Kid Pro Quo even in my top 100! Sticking with Season 13, I'd fight for American Jihad, Shangri-La and True Crime right out of the box (what a way for a long-running show to come out swinging in its thireenth season).  That year also had Hitman, Open Season, Suicide Box, Sheltered and Couples. A murderers row run of episodes with very few weak spots.

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

This probably isn't the place for the discussion but I honestly wouldn't go with Asterisk, Chosen and Kid Pro Quo even in my top 100! Sticking with Season 13, I'd fight for American Jihad, Shangri-La and True Crime right out of the box (what a way for a long-running show to come out swinging in its thireenth season).  That year also had Hitman, Open Season, Suicide Box, Sheltered and Couples. A murderers row run of episodes with very few weak spots.

I think this is a fine place for the discussion given that it’s the season 13 thread - season 13 had many great episodes, that’s for sure. You are right that the season started off great - I think Shangri-La and True Crime might round out my top 5 of season 13 - love both episodes, really good plots and twists - the twist at the end of True Crime where it became clear that the perp killed his old bandmate as well and his lawyer had to basically drag him out of the room to prevent him from admitting it was great, and Shangri-La had the interesting plot about the girl pretending to be a teen.

I love Kid Pro Quo for the stellar intricate plot about the private school and the strong trial scenes, Chosen has Dworkin who was an awesome defense lawyer, and Asterisk has just a very strong plot.

Open Season annoys me though because of Jack going to bat for that twat Melnick, she should’ve been disbarred. 

[andromeda331]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Open Season annoys me though because of Jack going to bat for that twat Melnick, she should’ve been disbarred. 

Disbarred and in prison. 

[andromeda331]

On 2/19/2024 at 2:44 PM, TakomaSnark said:

Watching 'The Ring' on Pop. I think if I ever focused enough to come up with a top fifteen episodes of mothership, this would be in there.

 

On 2/19/2024 at 2:46 PM, Xeliou66 said:

The Ring is a good one, I liked the twists and turns the plot took, and Serena had one of her best moments at the end when she realized the truth about the case. Lennie had a good moment as well when he realized what the password would be. Of course Briscoe/Green are always fun to watch. 
I wouldn’t rank it as highly as you would though, my favorites from season 13 are Asterisk, Chosen and Kid Pro Quo. But there are a lot of good ones, can’t go wrong with Briscoe/Green. 

I love the Ring. There were so many great twists in it. I like that it came down a purse. I love when a small detail turns out to be important. No one thought anything about the purse until Serena realized it was an evening purse.  I like the murderer being exposed as a murderer to his new fiancee and that he kept the 9/11 money when he claimed he donated it. Brisoe and Green were great as always.

[Xeliou66]

Just saw Asterisk on Sundance, this is a great episode, very strong plot about the baseball player killing the limo driver - I love Briscoe and Green’s investigation with how they zeroed in on Seleeby and realized his cousin and agent were covering for him and had made up their stories, and then the twist that Seleeby was gay was interesting - I wasn’t sure about Judge Bradley’s decision to block evidence of the limo driver getting Seleeby steroids, the steroids could’ve been part of the blackmail - it was an interesting dilemma, but Jack didn’t do anything unethical by trying to present evidence of the victim selling the defendant steroids. Serena was pretty whiny as usual. Jack’s closing argument was great, about how what the defense was saying wasn’t the whole story and how cheating shouldn’t be a defense for murder. Skoda’s role was strong as well, he provided good testimony - he added a lot to the episodes he was in, and I wish the revival would introduce a psych expert, we need to hear from a psych expert on the DAs side whenever the defense introduces psychiatric testimony. Asterisk is an excellent episode, one of my top 5 from season 13 for sure.

Another favorite from season 13, Kid Pro Quo, is coming up on Sundance later, that’s an outstanding episode and case as well.

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Just saw Asterisk on Sundance, this is a great episode, very strong plot about the baseball player killing the limo driver - I love Briscoe and Green’s investigation with how they zeroed in on Seleeby and realized his cousin and agent were covering for him and had made up their stories, and then the twist that Seleeby was gay was interesting - I wasn’t sure about Judge Bradley’s decision to block evidence of the limo driver getting Seleeby steroids, the steroids could’ve been part of the blackmail - it was an interesting dilemma, but Jack didn’t do anything unethical by trying to present evidence of the victim selling the defendant steroids. Serena was pretty whiny as usual. Jack’s closing argument was great, about how what the defense was saying wasn’t the whole story and how cheating shouldn’t be a defense for murder. Skoda’s role was strong as well, he provided good testimony - he added a lot to the episodes he was in, and I wish the revival would introduce a psych expert, we need to hear from a psych expert on the DAs side whenever the defense introduces psychiatric testimony. Asterisk is an excellent episode, one of my top 5 from season 13 for sure.

Another favorite from season 13, Kid Pro Quo, is coming up on Sundance later, that’s an outstanding episode and case as well.

That was a great episode. I love Van Buren's the one to point out the baseball player could be the murderer and annoyed at Briscoe and Green for fawning over him and Briscoe wanting him to sign his rookie card. I like Briscoe insisting it could pay for his grandchildren's college education.

The murderer did a terrible job setting up his alibi. 

I love Jack reminding the jury that taking stereoids is illegal. 

I didn't realize until recently that we really don't know what the limo driver was blackmailing him over. Was it being gay? Stereoids? Both?   

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

That was a great episode. I love Van Buren's the one to point out the baseball player could be the murderer and annoyed at Briscoe and Green for fawning over him and Briscoe wanting him to sign his rookie card. I like Briscoe insisting it could pay for his grandchildren's college education.

The murderer did a terrible job setting up his alibi. 

I love Jack reminding the jury that taking stereoids is illegal. 

I didn't realize until recently that we really don't know what the limo driver was blackmailing him over. Was it being gay? Stereoids? Both?   

We know that being gay was part of the blackmail, because the killer’s boyfriend who worked at the magazine, the one Serena talked to, told them that. We just don’t know if he was also being blackmailed over steroids, since we know the victim was getting steroids for the killer. So it was possible the steroids were a part of the blackmail, which is why I questioned Judge Bradley’s decision to bar the evidence. Regardless Jack did nothing wrong by trying to present the evidence, and Serena’s whining got on my nerves. 
Jack’s closing was great, saying that cheating shouldn’t be a defense for murder and that the defense’s story wasn’t the whole story. Skoda offered convincing testimony about the defendant not being psychotic but just having an overly violent reaction to an inciting event, I love Skoda and his expertise. 

Yeah the murderer and his two accomplices should’ve at least thought to not say the exact same things word for word to the detectives when asked about their whereabouts, but they weren’t that smart. I liked how Briscoe/Green broke their alibi and their investigation was great as usual.

It is a great episode, one of season 13’s best. 

[andromeda331]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

It is a great episode, one of season 13’s best. 

Yes it is.

[Xeliou66]

2 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Yes it is.

Season 13 has plenty of great episodes, if I had to pick a top 5 I would say it would be Asterisk, Chosen, True Crime, Shangri-La and Kid Pro Quo. Those are all fantastic episodes. Only one truly bad episode in season 13, Tragedy on Rye, that one was a stinker. What would your favorite episodes from season 13 be?

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Season 13 has plenty of great episodes, if I had to pick a top 5 I would say it would be Asterisk, Chosen, True Crime, Shangri-La and Kid Pro Quo. Those are all fantastic episodes. Only one truly bad episode in season 13, Tragedy on Rye, that one was a stinker. What would your favorite episodes from season 13 be?

Season thirteen was one of the best seasons. So many great episodes Asterisk, Chosen, and True Crimes are three of my favorites. I also really loved The Ring, Maritime, and Kid Pro Quo. 

The worse for me is Open Season because Melnick doesn't get disbarred and go to jail for getting a man killed. And Jack deciding to help her when he shouldn't have. She should have finally faced the consequences of her actions but doesn't.
 

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Season thirteen was one of the best seasons. So many great episodes Asterisk, Chosen, and True Crimes are three of my favorites. I also really loved The Ring, Maritime, and Kid Pro Quo. 

The worse for me is Open Season because Melnick doesn't get disbarred and go to jail for getting a man killed. And Jack deciding to help her when he shouldn't have. She should have finally faced the consequences of her actions but doesn't.
 

Agreed about Open Season being very frustrating - I don’t know why Jack went to bat for Melnick, it pisses me off every time. Melnick should’ve been disbarred at the very least. But I think Tragedy on Rye is worse, because its plot is just stupid and felt designed to make Arthur look heartless.

I love most of season 13, besides the episodes I’ve already mentioned, I like Maritime, Genius, The Ring, Bitch and Mother’s Day a lot, and Couples is entertaining and unusual. Not sure which episode is my absolute favorite. 

[MarylandGirl]

Looking at my IMDB ratings for that season, I'd say The Ring, Chosen, Absentia, Sheltered, and Couples as my favorites.

[Xeliou66]

22 minutes ago, MarylandGirl said:

Looking at my IMDB ratings for that season, I'd say The Ring, Chosen, Absentia, Sheltered, and Couples as my favorites.

Interesting. All of those are pretty good, but only Chosen would make my top 5 for the season. It’s a season loaded with stellar episodes though - almost all of them were very good. 

[andromeda331]

22 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Not sure which episode is my absolute favorite. 

I can't pick a favorite. They are all such great episodes.

[MarylandGirl]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Interesting. All of those are pretty good, but only Chosen would make my top 5 for the season. It’s a season loaded with stellar episodes though - almost all of them were very good. 

Many of the others were pretty close for me. Now I want to rewatch this season!

[Xeliou66]

35 minutes ago, MarylandGirl said:

Many of the others were pretty close for me. Now I want to rewatch this season!

Season 13 is excellent. Really all 5 of the Briscoe/Green seasons are excellent, you can’t go wrong with any of them. Season 13 has mostly great episodes - I would say my absolute favorites are Asterisk, Chosen and Kid Pro Quo. 
I liked Arthur’s introduction this season and how he brought some personality back to the DA role after the mostly boring Nora - I did think Serena’s whining about Arthur right off the bat was annoying, it seemed like she didn’t give him much of a chance - they were at odds in most episodes.

[Xeliou66]

Season 13 started today on Sundance, I haven’t seen it on in a good while - this is really a fantastic season and it got off to an awesome start with American Jihad, Shangri-La and True Crime.

American Jihad is a good case, it was interesting how the perp represented himself and was using his fundamentalist beliefs to mask his anger at women. I liked how Olivet zeroed in on his misogyny. I think his nasty mother really messed him up, and getting rejected by the girl he was obsessed with was just the last straw, and he took his rage out on the professor. A bit puzzling that he didn’t target the girl he was in love with, but I guess he didn’t have the stomach to kill her and wanted to blame someone else for her rejection. Solid intro to Arthur as well - he had a commanding presence from the start and it was interesting how he had mutual respect with Jack but Serena never seemed to give him much of a chance, I think she had made up her mind to dislike Arthur before they even shared a scene. Typical of Serena to be whiny. Serena did have one of her better moments when she crossed the perp and got him to go on his rant.

Shangri-La is a great episode, the perp pretending to be a teenager was a memorable plot. It was interesting how the perp initially had Jack fooled, while Serena saw through her. It was odd that Jack didn’t see how manipulative the perp was until later, and I was glad that Arthur called him out for going too soft at the start. Lennie figuring out that the security camera had been tampered with was good. Skoda was good as usual. Strong episode.

True Crime is another of my favorites from the season - excellent plot and I loved the twist that Travis had killed his old bandmate as well as killing Patty. Really good investigation and legal case. Lennie kind of annoyed me though with his defense of Mike Foster, Lennie all too often rushed to the defense of any cop he knew, Foster was screwing up their case and I thought Arthur’s idea to force his hand by going to the press was very clever and I didn’t care for Lennie bitching at Jack about it. I liked when Jack bluntly told Foster the world was better since he quit the police force. It was funny how Travis was about to confess to Shane’s murder as well and his attorney basically had to drag him out of the room. Great episode.

The only truly bad episode of season 13 is episode 4, Tragedy On Rye - really stupid episode that didn’t make any sense - how did no one notice the phone records and check it out? And the phone records proved nothing, it was beyond convenient that they found the murder weapon right there in the perp’s living room when they went to see him at the end. The whole side plot about Green being sued for profiling and brutality was stupid as well. The episode felt more designed as an anti death penalty statement and to make Arthur look heartless while making Serena look good - they dealt with the problems of the death penalty much better in several other episodes, this episode was just dreadful. In fact I would say it’s one of L&O’s worst ever episodes. The scene between Arthur and Anita was good and the only thing worth watching in the episode.

Watching The Ring now, another very good episode with a memorable plot, fascinating how they incorporated 9/11 into the murder plot. 

[andromeda331]

On 5/29/2024 at 6:30 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Season 13 started today on Sundance, I haven’t seen it on in a good while - this is really a fantastic season and it got off to an awesome start with American Jihad, Shangri-La and True Crime.

American Jihad is a good case, it was interesting how the perp represented himself and was using his fundamentalist beliefs to mask his anger at women. I liked how Olivet zeroed in on his misogyny. I think his nasty mother really messed him up, and getting rejected by the girl he was obsessed with was just the last straw, and he took his rage out on the professor. A bit puzzling that he didn’t target the girl he was in love with, but I guess he didn’t have the stomach to kill her and wanted to blame someone else for her rejection. Solid intro to Arthur as well - he had a commanding presence from the start and it was interesting how he had mutual respect with Jack but Serena never seemed to give him much of a chance, I think she had made up her mind to dislike Arthur before they even shared a scene. Typical of Serena to be whiny. Serena did have one of her better moments when she crossed the perp and got him to go on his rant.

It doesn't surprise me that he didn't go after the girl he was in love with. He's like many who can talk the talk for whatever cause or hatred they believe in but can't do it themselves. They don't have the stomach for it like you said. I agree his mother definitely didn't help things. I liked Olivet figuring it out too. I liked Arthur too. Serena was whiny as usual. It is interesting that she never gave Arthur a chance. I know she loved Nora because they both had the same opinions. Maybe she knew she and Arthur wouldn't? Or maybe she wouldn't have a boss who also in forced the law do it the same way she would.  Nora would never call her out on anything either.

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Shangri-La is a great episode, the perp pretending to be a teenager was a memorable plot. It was interesting how the perp initially had Jack fooled, while Serena saw through her. It was odd that Jack didn’t see how manipulative the perp was until later, and I was glad that Arthur called him out for going too soft at the start. Lennie figuring out that the security camera had been tampered with was good. Skoda was good as usual. Strong episode.

That's an interesting one. I was surprised too that Jack bought her crap. It was probably the only moment I liked Serena was because she saw right through her. I do wonder if part of Jack's eagerness later was because she duped him. I can't imagine willingly repeating high school over and over. That sounds like a nightmare. I wonder why she's so fixated on it. 

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True Crime is another of my favorites from the season - excellent plot and I loved the twist that Travis had killed his old bandmate as well as killing Patty. Really good investigation and legal case. Lennie kind of annoyed me though with his defense of Mike Foster, Lennie all too often rushed to the defense of any cop he knew, Foster was screwing up their case and I thought Arthur’s idea to force his hand by going to the press was very clever and I didn’t care for Lennie bitching at Jack about it. I liked when Jack bluntly told Foster the world was better since he quit the police force. It was funny how Travis was about to confess to Shane’s murder as well and his attorney basically had to drag him out of the room. Great episode.

Yeah I didn't like Lennie constantly defending Mike either. He was sketchy right of the bat. Once he reveal that he broke into the apartment it really should have stopped. Really right there they should have tossed out everything he said. I like the twist about Shane being murdered. I didn't see that coming at all. I like that it came down to the guitar. How did he get it.

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The only truly bad episode of season 13 is episode 4, Tragedy On Rye - really stupid episode that didn’t make any sense - how did no one notice the phone records and check it out? And the phone records proved nothing, it was beyond convenient that they found the murder weapon right there in the perp’s living room when they went to see him at the end. The whole side plot about Green being sued for profiling and brutality was stupid as well. The episode felt more designed as an anti death penalty statement and to make Arthur look heartless while making Serena look good - they dealt with the problems of the death penalty much better in several other episodes, this episode was just dreadful. In fact I would say it’s one of L&O’s worst ever episodes. The scene between Arthur and Anita was good and the only thing worth watching in the episode.

I guess they wanted to make Serena look good. It didn't work. If they wanted that they could have made her look better in other episodes like the one where she defended the parents let a pedaphile abuse their son for money. The whole episode was just terrible.

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Watching The Ring now, another very good episode with a memorable plot, fascinating how they incorporated 9/11 into the murder plot. 

I like that one. That fiance was a piece of work and he even lied about donating the 9/11 money. I like that it came down to the purse. No one gave it any thought until later when Serena realize it wasn't her regular purse because it didn't have what you'd normally have in a purse. I did like the doorman or was it the newspaper man who couldn't be sure if he saw her that morning or not. It makes sense he saw her every day he would think or assume he did see her that day. 

 

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It doesn't surprise me that he didn't go after the girl he was in love with. He's like many who can talk the talk for whatever cause or hatred they believe in but can't do it themselves. They don't have the stomach for it like you said. I agree his mother definitely didn't help things. I liked Olivet figuring it out too. I liked Arthur too. Serena was whiny as usual. It is interesting that she never gave Arthur a chance. I know she loved Nora because they both had the same opinions. Maybe she knew she and Arthur wouldn't? Or maybe she wouldn't have a boss who also in forced the law do it the same way she would.  Nora would never call her out on anything either.

That's an interesting one. I was surprised too that Jack bought her crap. It was probably the only moment I liked Serena was because she saw right through her. I do wonder if part of Jack's eagerness later was because she duped him. I can't imagine willingly repeating high school over and over. That sounds like a nightmare. I wonder why she's so fixated on it. 

Yeah I didn't like Lennie constantly defending Mike either. He was sketchy right of the bat. Once he reveal that he broke into the apartment it really should have stopped. Really right there they should have tossed out everything he said. I like the twist about Shane being murdered. I didn't see that coming at all. I like that it came down to the guitar. How did he get it.

I guess they wanted to make Serena look good. It didn't work. If they wanted that they could have made her look better in other episodes like the one where she defended the parents let a pedaphile abuse their son for money. The whole episode was just terrible.

I like that one. That fiance was a piece of work and he even lied about donating the 9/11 money. I like that it came down to the purse. No one gave it any thought until later when Serena realize it wasn't her regular purse because it didn't have what you'd normally have in a purse. I did like the doorman or was it the newspaper man who couldn't be sure if he saw her that morning or not. It makes sense he saw her every day he would think or assume he did see her that day. 

 

It was interesting how Serena had good moments in both American Jihad and Shangri-La - while I was annoyed with her whining about Arthur in the premiere, she did do a good job crossing the defendant and getting him to explode and Jack realized from his rant he knew details about the victim’s life and from there they found the girl he was obsessed with. I guess it was easier for him to blame the professor for the girl not reciprocating his feelings than it was for him to blame her directly. It’s a good episode. Yeah I think Serena never gave Arthur a chance because she knew they saw things differently and that Arthur might call her out for going too soft, which is what wound up happening. But still she never gave Arthur any chance, she disliked him instantly.

Yeah repeating high school many times sounds like one of my worst nightmares, the perp in Shangri-La was really strange in that that’s what she wanted. I definitely think Jack was angry about being fooled and Skoda noted that as well. I liked that Arthur called out Jack for going too easy at first on her, not sure why Jack was so quick to believe her. It’s a strong episode, really good investigative work.

True Crime would be in my top 5 of season 13 - great episode all around. Lennie defending Foster is the only thing that annoys me, and it wasn’t like Lennie was close to Foster, they knew each other but weren’t really friends, so Lennie just went to bat for him because he was a cop. I thought Arthur forcing Foster’s hand by going to the press was a great idea. Foster was clearly crossing lines and screwing up their case. It was a great twist that Travis had pushed Shane off the roof, and he was ready to confess to that as well, and that that’s likely what caused him to kill Patty was Patty realized it.

The only bad episode of all of season 13 was Tragedy on Rye, it felt like the plot was just designed to make Arthur look heartless while making Serena look good. The plot was really stupid, and if the real killer didn’t have the murder weapon in his living room months after the crime they never would’ve known who the true guilty party was. I would go as far as to say Tragedy on Rye is one of 10 worst L&O episodes ever, maybe even bottom 5.

I love the twist in The Ring of how the guy who seemed like a grieving fiancé was actually a cold blooded killer and had everyone fooled and almost successfully avoided being caught. The stuff about the purse was interesting and I liked Lennie realizing the password was “boo boo”. It’s a great episode, season 13 is filled with great episodes to be honest, I watched a lot of season 13 this week on Sundance and almost every episode is really good.

 

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

It was interesting how Serena had good moments in both American Jihad and Shangri-La - 

Yes, she did. If only they stuck with that instead of her whining all the time and being shocked at sending criminals to jail.

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I guess it was easier for him to blame the professor for the girl not reciprocating his feelings than it was for him to blame her directly. 

 

It usually is with the obsessed and also with domestic abusers they don't blame the victim until usually the very end. Until then it's always someone else's fault. The girl's father or mother or friend, or in this case the professor. It has to be that it clearly can't be because the girl didn't have feelings for him.
 

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Yeah repeating high school many times sounds like one of my worst nightmares, 

 

Mine too.

[andromeda331]

True Crime and the Ring are two of my all time favorites it coming down to something small and you wouldn't think of are my favorites. No one thought to question why he had Shane's guitar since they were friends and all. Many people men and women saw the purse and didn't give it any thought.  They might not ever had if they hadn't interviewed the guy and realized it had the wrong stuff in it.

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yes, she did. If only they stuck with that instead of her whining all the time and being shocked at sending criminals to jail.

It usually is with the obsessed and also with domestic abusers they don't blame the victim until usually the very end. Until then it's always someone else's fault. The girl's father or mother or friend, or in this case the professor. It has to be that it clearly can't be because the girl didn't have feelings for him.
 

Mine too.

Yeah Serena was usually whiny and annoying - she still had a few good moments, but usually she didn’t add much. I get that they wanted to go in a different direction than the hard nosed Abbie, but Serena just didn’t add much. 

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

True Crime and the Ring are two of my all time favorites it coming down to something small and you wouldn't think of are my favorites. No one thought to question why he had Shane's guitar since they were friends and all. Many people men and women saw the purse and didn't give it any thought.  They might not ever had if they hadn't interviewed the guy and realized it had the wrong stuff in it.

Yeah I love the small details in True Crime and The Ring - True Crime had a really strong plot with the detectives getting to the bottom of the case, and Jack’s realization about the guitar at the end was great. Same with Serena’s realization about the purse in The Ring. It was quite memorable how the fiancé turned out to be such a cold blooded murderer, he put on the grieving fiancé act well. I was kind of surprised the defense attorney didn’t suspect him and try to make him look guilty when they thought his client did the murder - I guess he had no reason to.

Season 13 is really great overall - lots of memorable cases. Briscoe/Green will forever be my favorite detective pairing. 

[buttersister]

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she never gave Arthur any chance, she disliked him instantly.

Ditto.

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Briscoe/Green will forever be my favorite detective pairing. 

Always and forever.

[andromeda331]

On 6/1/2024 at 9:39 AM, Xeliou66 said:

I was kind of surprised the defense attorney didn’t suspect him and try to make him look guilty when they thought his client did the murder - I guess he had no reason to.

So am I. Even if he wasn't guilty, he's still a good alternative murder suspect. 

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Season 13 is really great overall - lots of memorable cases. Briscoe/Green will forever be my favorite detective pairing. 

Mine too.

 

 

 

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

So am I. Even if he wasn't guilty, he's still a good alternative murder suspect. 

Mine too.

 

 

 

In The Ring it kind of surprised me that the defense attorney was basically just questioning the scientific evidence and trying to pose the theory that the victim really did die in the 9/11 attack, instead of asking about other murder suspects - if he had done a better job he might’ve uncovered that his client was innocent and the fiancé was the killer - instead the DAs did. It was still a great twist regardless - the fiancé seemed very innocent and nice.

Briscoe/Green are unmatched as an L&O detective pairing, there have been many great detective pairings on L&O but Briscoe/Green are the best.

Serena is really the only thing that drags season 13 down, her whining got tiresome and she’s overall a dull character. I know Arthur is polarizing, I’m on the side that likes him because of his colorful personality and his commanding presence - that was needed after Nora, who while not irritating like Serena was usually pretty boring as well.

Season 13 has a lot of really strong episodes/cases, it’s a great season overall. 

[ByTor]

On 6/1/2024 at 2:41 AM, andromeda331 said:

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Yeah repeating high school many times sounds like one of my worst nightmares, 

 

Mine too.

I've had that nightmare many times 🤣

[ByTor]

15 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Serena is really the only thing that drags season 13 down, her whining got tiresome and she’s overall a dull character

I've said before that I always liked Rey, but can't stand him now after many re-watches. Well, it's the same with Serena now. I never noticed how wooden Elisabeth Röhm delivers her lines. She totally got hired on her looks.

[Xeliou66]

7 minutes ago, ByTor said:

I've said before that I always liked Rey, but can't stand him now after many re-watches. Well, it's the same with Serena now. I never noticed how wooden Elisabeth Röhm delivers her lines. She totally got hired on her looks.

Yeah Serena is very wooden and dull. She’s the only thing that drags down seasons 13-14, which are excellent seasons with great cases, but Serena doesn’t add much and her whining can sometimes drag down the legal side. She had a few good moments here and there, mostly she didn’t add much. 

[Xeliou66]

Season 13 has so many great episodes 

Genius is interesting, with the author wanting to be executed for the murder he committed. It was an interesting discussion, and I enjoyed Skoda’s scenes of him analyzing Warner, and it was interesting how Skoda asked Jack if he would prefer if he found he wasn’t competent, and Jack replied “analyze him, Emil, not me”. I also liked Jack and Arthur’s discussion at the end. Arthur was right that Jack would’ve felt better about the situation if the defendant was fighting to stay alive and would’ve been appealing and the final decision wouldn’t have been up to the DAs. Warner was a sociopath and a terrible human being, I didn’t have a problem seeing him executed, he killed a guy just because he was angry his victim told him to stop smoking in the cab, it was only by chance that his victim happened to be a violent Klansman hiding from the feds, Warner had no idea who he was when he killed him. He also killed a guy in prison just because he didn’t like him. He was a menace and as Skoda said he didn’t give a damn about anyone or feel remorse. And I think he only requested the death penalty to toy with the DAs and give them a headache - he knew he was going to rot in prison for the rest of life regardless so he just thought he would try to manipulate the DAs by requesting the death penalty. It’s a strong episode, it was interesting seeing Green have a drink with the writer who was the original suspect during the investigation. 

Maritime is another good case, about the missing football player and his brother. I definitely believe the brother killed the 3 people, all of the evidence pointed that way. The mom should’ve left the abusive asshole father and maybe her sons would’ve done well instead of one being dead and the other being in jail for murder. It was interesting how the mom tried to manipulate the money transfer to help her son, but she should’ve just dumped her piece of shit husband ages ago. It was interesting how Skoda agreed with the defense that the perp was susceptible to being pressured into a plea, I liked how Skoda called it like he saw it instead of being biased. I wonder if the son and his mom had it planned all along. I did like seeing the murderer son grow a spine and stand up to his bully father finally at the end, too bad he didn’t kill him instead of his brother and the other two. Another strong case and a good investigation, I love Briscoe/Green, their detective work is always entertaining and I liked how they got to the bottom of the case. I liked Lennie’s flirtation with Rodgers in the morgue, Lennie and Rodgers always seemed to have an attraction, I liked how in one episode of CI Rodgers mentioned her and Lennie went to the opera once. Also it was interesting in this episode how they mentioned the specific sports teams the victim played for - the Jets and the Florida Gators - usually they made up fictional names for teams when someone from them was directly involved in the plot. We found out Arthur had a nephew who played on the Gators with the victim, and Arthur was apparently a Giants fan. 

[Spartan Girl]

Sheltered is an episode I always have to skip. Even back then, Bucky Barnes gets coddled😤.

Yeah yeah, I know he was brainwashed by his stupid “dad” but all his doubling down of why he had to kill his boss and all those other poor people to protect his father made me grit my teeth. Bit of flaw in your logic, Bucky, because all your sniper shooting got your precious fake father caught and arrested as a kidnapper, so since protecting him was all that mattered to you, it was all for nothing, dipshit!

Edited August 19, 2024 by Spartan Girl

[Xeliou66]

I’ve signed up for Peacock again so I can watch football on it, and since it has seasons 13-20 of L&O on it I’ve been watching some of my favorites from those seasons - this season is filled with some classic episodes 

I just watched Chosen, this is one of my all time favorites - a memorable legal battle between Jack and Dworkin - Dworkin is one of my favorite defense attorneys, he’s very entertaining and he did an impressive act trying to get his client off when he was blatantly guilty. It was hilarious when Dworkin objected before the trial started when the clerk said “people of New York vs Strelzik” and Dworkin went on his rant about how not all of the people of New York were against his client. 
Jack was awesome as always here as well, I loved his closing argument about how Dworkin was a magician trying to make a murdered man disappear, and that he was trying to use the jury’s sympathy for his client’s pro Israel cause to set a killer free, and that the jury should set aside emotion and bias and look at the facts or else the whole legal process is meaningless - not the only time Jack gave an argument to that effect, this one was extremely effective and I was glad the jury found Strelzik guilty. I didn’t feel any sympathy for Strelzik, there were numerous other ways to aid humanitarian efforts in Israel that didn’t involve theft and murder, and Strelzik killed because he didn’t want to go to jail/lose his job.  
I also loved Jack going off on Judge Miller and refusing to apologize, Miller was one of the most biased judges, he allowed the defendant and his wife to go on political tangents about their personal beliefs on Israel that had absolutely nothing to do with the trial. 
I thought when Jack asked Mrs Strelzik if she would be okay with her husband murdering someone who she viewed as an upstanding member of society instead of a muscle for a gambling operation and then asking if Meeks were Jewish would she be okay with it were strong questions - it showed the double standard the defendant and his wife had - they believed some lives were worth more than others and that’s a very scary thing. Basically the defense’s whole argument was that the lives of the people in Israel being aided by the defendant were worth more than the life of Meeks the murder victim, and I liked that Jack called that out.

There is lots of great stuff in this episode, I loved the scene where Arthur asked if Strelzik killed Meeks and if anyone in the room had their name is Strelzik’s book and after they answered yes and no Arthur said “then convict the SOB” - great scene. Arthur’s story about making the judges laugh in his appellate case was pretty good as well.

And of course Briscoe/Green were awesome as always, their investigations were always great, it was a good investigation of how they went from suspect to suspect before finding out about Strelzik’s theft and then the knives at the steakhouse matching the murder weapon. The opening was funny with the drunk Wall St douchebags breaking into the wrong car and finding the body. 
It’s a fantastic episode all around.

 

Season 13 has a lot of episodes I would rank very high if I were ranking L&O episodes - I love most of them, and the season starting with American Jihad, Shangri-La and True Crime is arguably the best start to a season in L&O history, and Chosen, Asterisk and Kid Pro Quo are 3 of my all time favorites. The only clunker in season 13 is Tragedy on Rye, that was a terrible episode, and Open Season annoys me because of Jack helping Melnick, although the rest of the episode is decent. Season 13 is awesome overall.

[Xeliou66]

Kid Pro Quo is an awesome episode, one of my all time favorites, great case with a strong investigation by Briscoe/Green and an entertaining trial. Van Buren was missing which was weird, but Briscoe/Green were at their best in this investigation, their questioning of the suspects and then zeroing in on the headmaster was a really good investigation and there were some funny one liners, Lennie’s “she had her oophers removed” quip after Rodgers tells them the victim had an oophorectomy was hilarious, and the swipe at CSI about crime scene guys thinking they were detectives was also funny. The arrest scene where they slap the cuffs on Scofield at the auction is great as well. Strong court scenes as well, Rothenberg was always a good adversary, Jack getting Scofield to show his anger on cross was another strong cross from Jack, I liked how he got under Scofield’s skin and showed his greed and arrogance. I liked all of the various testimony, I was glad the jury found Scofield guilty, he was an arrogant murderer, as noted by him still wearing the sweater that he wore when he killed the victim that they got the fibers from. Serena was pretty good as well in this one in helping to get to the bottom of the scheme where Scofield was getting helped by the rich buddies of the guy whose kid he put in the school. The toxicity and intensity of private school culture is something that has been done in several episodes throughout the franchise. Downright excellent plot in this episode.

I watched through the end of season 13 this week, Couples is an entertaining episode, one of the two “lots of action in one day” episodes along with Mayhem that deviated from the usual formula, I think Mayhem is slightly better but Couples is entertaining and has a lot of good dark humor in it, Briscoe/Green were so entertaining to watch. Them running through the car wash after the suspect and getting soaked was funny, and Lennie’s “married and a Mets fan, he’s a glutton for punishment” line was great, and Briscoe/Green finding the kidnapping message in the bathroom when they took the suspect in there to let him throw up was one of L&O’s most bizarre moments, the whole episode was odd but they pulled it off and made it entertaining and funny without being too off the wall. Then of course Smoke is the finale and I will say again how disgusted I was with Serena feeling sympathy for those sicko parents - even when it came out they knowingly sold their son to the creep comedian knowing he would molest him, Serena still acted like it was some kind of tragedy that they were going to jail, disgusting. Jack was 100% right that both kids were better off without those scum, and I don’t know if the brothers could even have any kind of relationship with each other knowing the truth that the parents pimped the one kid out to the perv to pay for the others medical treatments. I wish Serena had been fired in this episode, that way we wouldn’t have had to have another season and a half of her. For every episode where Serena was good such as Kid Pro Quo, there were more where she was a crybaby. 

[txhorns79]

On 5/29/2024 at 8:30 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Shangri-La is a great episode, the perp pretending to be a teenager was a memorable plot.

I really liked how when she was caught by Jack using the ID of one of her older aliases at a bar, it was almost like a switch went off in her head and her real con artist persona revealed itself.  I also thought the defense attorney did a good job of just looking absolutely horrified in realizing she had been had by this girl, and the entire mental illness defense was a fraud.     

[Xeliou66]

21 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I really liked how when she was caught by Jack using the ID of one of her older aliases at a bar, it was almost like a switch went off in her head and her real con artist persona revealed itself.  I also thought the defense attorney did a good job of just looking absolutely horrified in realizing she had been had by this girl, and the entire mental illness defense was a fraud.     

Yeah I liked how they caught her, and exposed her as a fraud. It was interesting how Serena was spot on about her, while Jack thought the teacher was the main culprit. And I liked that Arthur called out Jack for being too lenient with her, saying he wouldn’t give his own granddaughter that deal. It was one of the few times Jack’s judgment was off. 
I liked how Lennie realized something was off with the tape, and the detective work was really good. It’s a great episode. 

[andromeda331]

On 1/15/2025 at 7:32 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Then of course Smoke is the finale and I will say again how disgusted I was with Serena feeling sympathy for those sicko parents - even when it came out they knowingly sold their son to the creep comedian knowing he would molest him, Serena still acted like it was some kind of tragedy that they were going to jail, disgusting. Jack was 100% right that both kids were better off without those scum, and I don’t know if the brothers could even have any kind of relationship with each other knowing the truth that the parents pimped the one kid out to the perv to pay for the others medical treatments. I wish Serena had been fired in this episode, that way we wouldn’t have had to have another season and a half of her. For every episode where Serena was good such as Kid Pro Quo, there were more where she was a crybaby. 

That was when my hate for Serena was cemented. She was annoying before then but this was too much. Sympathy for the parents who sold their son to child molester? I don't care what the reason is.  You don't do that. The parents didn't deserve either kid. She really should have been fired. Who wants a prosecutor who is sympathetic to that? I also don't like how she thinks it was just because she doesn't have kids. Ah, no Serena, you don't have to have kids to know to keep your child away from child molesters. 

13 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I liked how they caught her, and exposed her as a fraud. It was interesting how Serena was spot on about her, while Jack thought the teacher was the main culprit. And I liked that Arthur called out Jack for being too lenient with her, saying he wouldn’t give his own granddaughter that deal. It was one of the few times Jack’s judgment was off. 
I liked how Lennie realized something was off with the tape, and the detective work was really good. It’s a great episode. 

Yeah, I can't believe Jack bought her story. Even if she was a teenager it was she was still a manuiplator. It reminds me of the episode where Skola believed Jackie's reasons for murder had to do with menopause. You wouldn't think either one would fall for it. But they do.  

[Xeliou66]

54 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

That was when my hate for Serena was cemented. She was annoying before then but this was too much. Sympathy for the parents who sold their son to child molester? I don't care what the reason is.  You don't do that. The parents didn't deserve either kid. She really should have been fired. Who wants a prosecutor who is sympathetic to that? I also don't like how she thinks it was just because she doesn't have kids. Ah, no Serena, you don't have to have kids to know to keep your child away from child molesters. 

Yeah, I can't believe Jack bought her story. Even if she was a teenager it was she was still a manuiplator. It reminds me of the episode where Skola believed Jackie's reasons for murder had to do with menopause. You wouldn't think either one would fall for it. But they do.  

Yeah it was absurd how Serena felt sorry that the son that was sick would be without them, Jack was right that he would be better off, those parents were depraved sickos. I don’t understand how any parent could betray their kid in such an egregious way, I don’t care what circumstances they were under, what they did was pure evil. The son’s reaction to finding out they knew all along was a very memorable and chilling moment. The parents deserved to rot, and I wish Arthur had canned Serena in this episode. Arthur made a good point when he said he wouldn’t let his kids have a sleepover with a 35 year old stranger, and also when he told the story about the mom and two sons and when she had to choose which one would go to war she said to take her husband instead and that that was natural, you don’t sacrifice one kid to save the other.

Yeah I was surprised Jack bought the story of the perp originally in Shangri-La, he had blinders on. Serena was right about this case from the start. 

[txhorns79]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah, I can't believe Jack bought her story. Even if she was a teenager it was she was still a manuiplator. It reminds me of the episode where Skola believed Jackie's reasons for murder had to do with menopause. You wouldn't think either one would fall for it. But they do. 

When he was initially questioning her in front of the Judge when they were determining whether to sentence her as a juvenile, and just kind of gave up and conceded the transfer to juvenile court, that was very surprising.  At least try to verify her claims before agreeing to the transfer, Jack!

 

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

When he was initially questioning her in front of the Judge when they were determining whether to sentence her as a juvenile, and just kind of gave up and conceded the transfer to juvenile court, that was very surprising.  At least try to verify her claims before agreeing to the transfer, Jack!

 

Yeah Jack went unusually easy on her at the start, and I was glad Arthur called him on it. One of the few times Jack’s judgment was off. 
While Serena was right on about the case, her ending line about it being nice to stay 16 or whatever was odd, who thinks that way - the teenage years were a nightmare for me and very few people would want to remain that age. What a weird line.