Season 13: Hello Arthur Branch!

[Xeliou66]

I watched Chosen again recently - I love this episode, Dworkin is such an entertaining character, one of my favorite defense lawyers. Jack was great too in this episode - his closing was spot on - Dworkin was doing a strong magic act in trying to hide the facts of the case and make the murder disappear and make the case about anti Semitism and violence in Israel, and Jack made it clear that the defendant was guilty and that Dworkin wasn’t even denying it - the case was about a bookie killing over money and not about anything else, and I was glad the jury saw through Dworkin’s act and convicted the killer. I have to say I did not feel any sympathy for the killer - if he wanted to help people in Israel there are plenty of ways of doing so without resorting to theft and murder. And the guy’s wife was a bigot - I thought it was brilliant when Jack asked if she thought the murder would be justified if the victim was Jewish, it exposed her as a bigot who thought some lives were more valuable than others and she lost sympathy with that.

Serena though irritated me as she frequently did - she implied Jack was a bigot at one point in the episode and that was way out of bounds, nothing Jack said was bigoted. It was Dworkin who was making the case about ethnicity and trying to manipulate Jewish jurors into having sympathy for his client. Serena was just so damn whiny so much of the time.

And the judge was a big joke - he allowed Dworkin, the killer and the wife to turn his courtroom into a soapbox just because he agreed with their point of view. I loved when Jack stormed off leaving Serena to apologize for him after he basically told the judge he was making up the law.

It’s one of my favorite season 13 episodes - no notable flaws in it, with very entertaining courtroom scenes and a good investigation - Briscoe/Green are the best detective pairing in L&O history and no one will come close to matching them IMO. 

[andromeda331]

40 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I watched Chosen again recently - I love this episode, Dworkin is such an entertaining character, one of my favorite defense lawyers. Jack was great too in this episode - his closing was spot on - Dworkin was doing a strong magic act in trying to hide the facts of the case and make the murder disappear and make the case about anti Semitism and violence in Israel, and Jack made it clear that the defendant was guilty and that Dworkin wasn’t even denying it - the case was about a bookie killing over money and not about anything else, and I was glad the jury saw through Dworkin’s act and convicted the killer. I have to say I did not feel any sympathy for the killer - if he wanted to help people in Israel there are plenty of ways of doing so without resorting to theft and murder. And the guy’s wife was a bigot - I thought it was brilliant when Jack asked if she thought the murder would be justified if the victim was Jewish, it exposed her as a bigot who thought some lives were more valuable than others and she lost sympathy with that.

Serena though irritated me as she frequently did - she implied Jack was a bigot at one point in the episode and that was way out of bounds, nothing Jack said was bigoted. It was Dworkin who was making the case about ethnicity and trying to manipulate Jewish jurors into having sympathy for his client. Serena was just so damn whiny so much of the time.

And the judge was a big joke - he allowed Dworkin, the killer and the wife to turn his courtroom into a soapbox just because he agreed with their point of view. I loved when Jack stormed off leaving Serena to apologize for him after he basically told the judge he was making up the law.

It’s one of my favorite season 13 episodes - no notable flaws in it, with very entertaining courtroom scenes and a good investigation - Briscoe/Green are the best detective pairing in L&O history and no one will come close to matching them IMO. 

It's a really great episode. The killer was a horrible person. As you pointed out there were a lot of other ways to raise money for Israel? There's a lot of people in the country that were pro-Israel he would have made a lot more money. His wife was just as horrible.  She didn't care about the murder becaue the man wasn't Jewish. 

Serena was an idiot. Jack has always gone after people who use their faith as justification or to hide their crime. This was nothing new or even surprising.

The judge should have recused himself. He was clearly bias. When that didn't happen Jack should have been able to get him forced to recuse.

[Xeliou66]

8 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

It's a really great episode. The killer was a horrible person. As you pointed out there were a lot of other ways to raise money for Israel? There's a lot of people in the country that were pro-Israel he would have made a lot more money. His wife was just as horrible.  She didn't care about the murder becaue the man wasn't Jewish. 

Serena was an idiot. Jack has always gone after people who use their faith as justification or to hide their crime. This was nothing new or even surprising.

The judge should have recused himself. He was clearly bias. When that didn't happen Jack should have been able to get him forced to recuse.

Yes it’s a fantastic episode - the courtroom scenes are some of the best, Dworkin is such an entertaining character - he’s probably my favorite defense attorney on the show. 
The killer wasn’t sympathetic at all to me, there are plenty of ways to raise money for humanitarian causes without stealing and committing murder to cover it up. He claimed to be so disturbed by violence but he stabbed a man to death to cover up his theft. Him and his wife were horrible people, the wife didn’t care because she saw the victim as beneath them because he was the muscle end of the gambling operation and because he wasn’t of their ethnicity. I thought Jack did a great job of cross examining both the defendant and his wife. 

Serena should’ve been more offended by Dworkin trying to get as many Jewish people on the jury as possible, hoping they would be more likely to ignore a murder since the defendant was claiming he did it to help fellow Jews, than about anything Jack said. And yeah Jack has never tolerated people using their faith/beliefs as an excuse to break the law, that is one of Jack’s main pet peeves, along with hate crimes/abuse of power/vigilantism. Serena seemed to enjoy being disagreeable and whiny. 

It’s hard to get a judge off of a case, even though he was clearly biased, because the DA’s would just have to go to another judge and try to complain and judges tend to stick together. Remember the season 19 episode with the judge with dementia who was blatantly not capable of presiding over a case, it took exposing his dementia in open court before he was removed. Any judge worth his salt wouldn’t have let the defense turn the courtroom into a soapbox, but it was clear this guy agreed with every word the defense was saying.

Another scene I love from the episode is when Dworkin tried to get a deal saying he had named of prominent people involved in the gambling operation and Arthur asked if the defendant was guilty and asked if anyone in the room had their name in the book and then said “then convict the SOB”. I like how Arthur didn’t let anyone push his office around. 

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes it’s a fantastic episode - the courtroom scenes are some of the best, Dworkin is such an entertaining character - he’s probably my favorite defense attorney on the show. 
The killer wasn’t sympathetic at all to me, there are plenty of ways to raise money for humanitarian causes without stealing and committing murder to cover it up. He claimed to be so disturbed by violence but he stabbed a man to death to cover up his theft. Him and his wife were horrible people, the wife didn’t care because she saw the victim as beneath them because he was the muscle end of the gambling operation and because he wasn’t of their ethnicity. I thought Jack did a great job of cross examining both the defendant and his wife. 

Dworkin is one of my favorites too. I also really like Gold because he was the only one to ever throw Stone off his game. 

Yeah, the murderer was trying to justify him murdering a man as a noble reason but nothing he did was noble. He killed his partner because his partner was going to turn him in for embezzling. That's not good or anything. It's a common criminal killing to keep himself from going to jail.

I'm really glad the jury convicted him. Dworkin assumed they would feel sympathy. But it didn't work. I'm glad it didn't. If anything I think the jury was more offended by Dworkin thinking they would ignore a murder because the murderer was Jewish. 

Quote

It’s hard to get a judge off of a case, even though he was clearly biased, because the DA’s would just have to go to another judge and try to complain and judges tend to stick together. Remember the season 19 episode with the judge with dementia who was blatantly not capable of presiding over a case, it took exposing his dementia in open court before he was removed. Any judge worth his salt wouldn’t have let the defense turn the courtroom into a soapbox, but it was clear this guy agreed with every word the defense was saying.

I know. It's hard in real life and in TV the judge who kept sexually harassing Jamie and showed bias first for the prosecution and then turned on them because he was mad at Jack. He was only taken off the case. It probably would be the same with the judge. It's too bad it's so hard when judges are so clearly bias.

 

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Another scene I love from the episode is when Dworkin tried to get a deal saying he had named of prominent people involved in the gambling operation and Arthur asked if the defendant was guilty and asked if anyone in the room had their name in the book and then said “then convict the SOB”. I like how Arthur didn’t let anyone push his office around. 

I love that scene too. Dworkin had a good plan. There's no doubt prominent people would be involve in the gambling operation. Most likely as customers. There usually is. And they wouldn't want it to get out. I love Arthur's response to that. Adam would have made the same decision. I love how they rarely hesitated to go after prominent or not let it get in the way of a case. 

[Xeliou66]

21 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Dworkin is one of my favorites too. I also really like Gold because he was the only one to ever throw Stone off his game. 

Yeah, the murderer was trying to justify him murdering a man as a noble reason but nothing he did was noble. He killed his partner because his partner was going to turn him in for embezzling. That's not good or anything. It's a common criminal killing to keep himself from going to jail.

I'm really glad the jury convicted him. Dworkin assumed they would feel sympathy. But it didn't work. I'm glad it didn't. If anything I think the jury was more offended by Dworkin thinking they would ignore a murder because the murderer was Jewish. 

I know. It's hard in real life and in TV the judge who kept sexually harassing Jamie and showed bias first for the prosecution and then turned on them because he was mad at Jack. He was only taken off the case. It probably would be the same with the judge. It's too bad it's so hard when judges are so clearly bias.

 

I love that scene too. Dworkin had a good plan. There's no doubt prominent people would be involve in the gambling operation. Most likely as customers. There usually is. And they wouldn't want it to get out. I love Arthur's response to that. Adam would have made the same decision. I love how they rarely hesitated to go after prominent or not let it get in the way of a case. 

Dworkin was really entertaining to watch - he had a way of charming the jury and passionately defending clients even when the evidence was strong against them. I wish he would pop back up on the Mothership revival or SVU, he appeared on SVU a few years ago so maybe he’ll be back.

The judge in this episode was very biased but he didn’t do anything blatantly over the line the way Judge Marks in ID did - Marks was off his rocker, and his sexual comments to Jamie and his direct questioning of witnesses and his pompous attitude were enough to get the judge Adam went to to toss him off the case. But it was pitiful how this judge allowed the defense to ramble on about issues in Israel that had nothing to do with the case.

I was glad the jury saw through the fog of smoke Dworkin threw at them and convicted the killer, and yeah Dworkin’s strategy might’ve backfired some as many Jewish people would be offended that Dworkin would try to use their ethnicity to set a killer free. Jack’s closing was spot on and Serena should’ve been more offended by Dworkin trying to manipulate Jewish jurors with the stuff about Israel than about anything Jack said. Serena implying Jack was somehow a bigot really irritated me, as did Serena saying that the killer could embarrass prominent people by revealing their gambling involvement, one reason why I loved Arthur’s response that he basically didn’t give a fuck and wanted the guy convicted.

I also loved the investigation by Briscoe/Green, they are unmatched when it comes to detective pairings, I liked how they went through the suspects before zeroing in on the killer after seeing the restaurant knives were the same as the murder weapon. I also love the start with the drunk Wall St douchebags discovering the body and Lennie’s quip that they weren’t far off from being common criminals. Briscoe/Green are so enjoyable to watch. 

[TakomaSnark]

Watching 'The Ring' on Pop. I think if I ever focused enough to come up with a top fifteen episodes of mothership, this would be in there.

[Xeliou66]

Just now, TakomaSnark said:

Watching 'The Ring' on Pop. I think if I ever focused enough to come up with a top fifteen episodes of mothership, this would be in there.

The Ring is a good one, I liked the twists and turns the plot took, and Serena had one of her best moments at the end when she realized the truth about the case. Lennie had a good moment as well when he realized what the password would be. Of course Briscoe/Green are always fun to watch. 
I wouldn’t rank it as highly as you would though, my favorites from season 13 are Asterisk, Chosen and Kid Pro Quo. But there are a lot of good ones, can’t go wrong with Briscoe/Green. 

[TakomaSnark]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The Ring is a good one, I liked the twists and turns the plot took, and Serena had one of her best moments at the end when she realized the truth about the case. Lennie had a good moment as well when he realized what the password would be. Of course Briscoe/Green are always fun to watch. 
I wouldn’t rank it as highly as you would though, my favorites from season 13 are Asterisk, Chosen and Kid Pro Quo. But there are a lot of good ones, can’t go wrong with Briscoe/Green. 

This probably isn't the place for the discussion but I honestly wouldn't go with Asterisk, Chosen and Kid Pro Quo even in my top 100! Sticking with Season 13, I'd fight for American Jihad, Shangri-La and True Crime right out of the box (what a way for a long-running show to come out swinging in its thireenth season).  That year also had Hitman, Open Season, Suicide Box, Sheltered and Couples. A murderers row run of episodes with very few weak spots.

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

This probably isn't the place for the discussion but I honestly wouldn't go with Asterisk, Chosen and Kid Pro Quo even in my top 100! Sticking with Season 13, I'd fight for American Jihad, Shangri-La and True Crime right out of the box (what a way for a long-running show to come out swinging in its thireenth season).  That year also had Hitman, Open Season, Suicide Box, Sheltered and Couples. A murderers row run of episodes with very few weak spots.

I think this is a fine place for the discussion given that it’s the season 13 thread - season 13 had many great episodes, that’s for sure. You are right that the season started off great - I think Shangri-La and True Crime might round out my top 5 of season 13 - love both episodes, really good plots and twists - the twist at the end of True Crime where it became clear that the perp killed his old bandmate as well and his lawyer had to basically drag him out of the room to prevent him from admitting it was great, and Shangri-La had the interesting plot about the girl pretending to be a teen.

I love Kid Pro Quo for the stellar intricate plot about the private school and the strong trial scenes, Chosen has Dworkin who was an awesome defense lawyer, and Asterisk has just a very strong plot.

Open Season annoys me though because of Jack going to bat for that twat Melnick, she should’ve been disbarred. 

[andromeda331]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Open Season annoys me though because of Jack going to bat for that twat Melnick, she should’ve been disbarred. 

Disbarred and in prison. 

[andromeda331]

On 2/19/2024 at 2:44 PM, TakomaSnark said:

Watching 'The Ring' on Pop. I think if I ever focused enough to come up with a top fifteen episodes of mothership, this would be in there.

 

On 2/19/2024 at 2:46 PM, Xeliou66 said:

The Ring is a good one, I liked the twists and turns the plot took, and Serena had one of her best moments at the end when she realized the truth about the case. Lennie had a good moment as well when he realized what the password would be. Of course Briscoe/Green are always fun to watch. 
I wouldn’t rank it as highly as you would though, my favorites from season 13 are Asterisk, Chosen and Kid Pro Quo. But there are a lot of good ones, can’t go wrong with Briscoe/Green. 

I love the Ring. There were so many great twists in it. I like that it came down a purse. I love when a small detail turns out to be important. No one thought anything about the purse until Serena realized it was an evening purse.  I like the murderer being exposed as a murderer to his new fiancee and that he kept the 9/11 money when he claimed he donated it. Brisoe and Green were great as always.

[Xeliou66]

Just saw Asterisk on Sundance, this is a great episode, very strong plot about the baseball player killing the limo driver - I love Briscoe and Green’s investigation with how they zeroed in on Seleeby and realized his cousin and agent were covering for him and had made up their stories, and then the twist that Seleeby was gay was interesting - I wasn’t sure about Judge Bradley’s decision to block evidence of the limo driver getting Seleeby steroids, the steroids could’ve been part of the blackmail - it was an interesting dilemma, but Jack didn’t do anything unethical by trying to present evidence of the victim selling the defendant steroids. Serena was pretty whiny as usual. Jack’s closing argument was great, about how what the defense was saying wasn’t the whole story and how cheating shouldn’t be a defense for murder. Skoda’s role was strong as well, he provided good testimony - he added a lot to the episodes he was in, and I wish the revival would introduce a psych expert, we need to hear from a psych expert on the DAs side whenever the defense introduces psychiatric testimony. Asterisk is an excellent episode, one of my top 5 from season 13 for sure.

Another favorite from season 13, Kid Pro Quo, is coming up on Sundance later, that’s an outstanding episode and case as well.

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Just saw Asterisk on Sundance, this is a great episode, very strong plot about the baseball player killing the limo driver - I love Briscoe and Green’s investigation with how they zeroed in on Seleeby and realized his cousin and agent were covering for him and had made up their stories, and then the twist that Seleeby was gay was interesting - I wasn’t sure about Judge Bradley’s decision to block evidence of the limo driver getting Seleeby steroids, the steroids could’ve been part of the blackmail - it was an interesting dilemma, but Jack didn’t do anything unethical by trying to present evidence of the victim selling the defendant steroids. Serena was pretty whiny as usual. Jack’s closing argument was great, about how what the defense was saying wasn’t the whole story and how cheating shouldn’t be a defense for murder. Skoda’s role was strong as well, he provided good testimony - he added a lot to the episodes he was in, and I wish the revival would introduce a psych expert, we need to hear from a psych expert on the DAs side whenever the defense introduces psychiatric testimony. Asterisk is an excellent episode, one of my top 5 from season 13 for sure.

Another favorite from season 13, Kid Pro Quo, is coming up on Sundance later, that’s an outstanding episode and case as well.

That was a great episode. I love Van Buren's the one to point out the baseball player could be the murderer and annoyed at Briscoe and Green for fawning over him and Briscoe wanting him to sign his rookie card. I like Briscoe insisting it could pay for his grandchildren's college education.

The murderer did a terrible job setting up his alibi. 

I love Jack reminding the jury that taking stereoids is illegal. 

I didn't realize until recently that we really don't know what the limo driver was blackmailing him over. Was it being gay? Stereoids? Both?   

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

That was a great episode. I love Van Buren's the one to point out the baseball player could be the murderer and annoyed at Briscoe and Green for fawning over him and Briscoe wanting him to sign his rookie card. I like Briscoe insisting it could pay for his grandchildren's college education.

The murderer did a terrible job setting up his alibi. 

I love Jack reminding the jury that taking stereoids is illegal. 

I didn't realize until recently that we really don't know what the limo driver was blackmailing him over. Was it being gay? Stereoids? Both?   

We know that being gay was part of the blackmail, because the killer’s boyfriend who worked at the magazine, the one Serena talked to, told them that. We just don’t know if he was also being blackmailed over steroids, since we know the victim was getting steroids for the killer. So it was possible the steroids were a part of the blackmail, which is why I questioned Judge Bradley’s decision to bar the evidence. Regardless Jack did nothing wrong by trying to present the evidence, and Serena’s whining got on my nerves. 
Jack’s closing was great, saying that cheating shouldn’t be a defense for murder and that the defense’s story wasn’t the whole story. Skoda offered convincing testimony about the defendant not being psychotic but just having an overly violent reaction to an inciting event, I love Skoda and his expertise. 

Yeah the murderer and his two accomplices should’ve at least thought to not say the exact same things word for word to the detectives when asked about their whereabouts, but they weren’t that smart. I liked how Briscoe/Green broke their alibi and their investigation was great as usual.

It is a great episode, one of season 13’s best. 

[andromeda331]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

It is a great episode, one of season 13’s best. 

Yes it is.

[Xeliou66]

2 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Yes it is.

Season 13 has plenty of great episodes, if I had to pick a top 5 I would say it would be Asterisk, Chosen, True Crime, Shangri-La and Kid Pro Quo. Those are all fantastic episodes. Only one truly bad episode in season 13, Tragedy on Rye, that one was a stinker. What would your favorite episodes from season 13 be?

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Season 13 has plenty of great episodes, if I had to pick a top 5 I would say it would be Asterisk, Chosen, True Crime, Shangri-La and Kid Pro Quo. Those are all fantastic episodes. Only one truly bad episode in season 13, Tragedy on Rye, that one was a stinker. What would your favorite episodes from season 13 be?

Season thirteen was one of the best seasons. So many great episodes Asterisk, Chosen, and True Crimes are three of my favorites. I also really loved The Ring, Maritime, and Kid Pro Quo. 

The worse for me is Open Season because Melnick doesn't get disbarred and go to jail for getting a man killed. And Jack deciding to help her when he shouldn't have. She should have finally faced the consequences of her actions but doesn't.
 

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Season thirteen was one of the best seasons. So many great episodes Asterisk, Chosen, and True Crimes are three of my favorites. I also really loved The Ring, Maritime, and Kid Pro Quo. 

The worse for me is Open Season because Melnick doesn't get disbarred and go to jail for getting a man killed. And Jack deciding to help her when he shouldn't have. She should have finally faced the consequences of her actions but doesn't.
 

Agreed about Open Season being very frustrating - I don’t know why Jack went to bat for Melnick, it pisses me off every time. Melnick should’ve been disbarred at the very least. But I think Tragedy on Rye is worse, because its plot is just stupid and felt designed to make Arthur look heartless.

I love most of season 13, besides the episodes I’ve already mentioned, I like Maritime, Genius, The Ring, Bitch and Mother’s Day a lot, and Couples is entertaining and unusual. Not sure which episode is my absolute favorite. 

[MarylandGirl]

Looking at my IMDB ratings for that season, I'd say The Ring, Chosen, Absentia, Sheltered, and Couples as my favorites.

[Xeliou66]

22 minutes ago, MarylandGirl said:

Looking at my IMDB ratings for that season, I'd say The Ring, Chosen, Absentia, Sheltered, and Couples as my favorites.

Interesting. All of those are pretty good, but only Chosen would make my top 5 for the season. It’s a season loaded with stellar episodes though - almost all of them were very good. 

[andromeda331]

22 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Not sure which episode is my absolute favorite. 

I can't pick a favorite. They are all such great episodes.

[MarylandGirl]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Interesting. All of those are pretty good, but only Chosen would make my top 5 for the season. It’s a season loaded with stellar episodes though - almost all of them were very good. 

Many of the others were pretty close for me. Now I want to rewatch this season!

[Xeliou66]

35 minutes ago, MarylandGirl said:

Many of the others were pretty close for me. Now I want to rewatch this season!

Season 13 is excellent. Really all 5 of the Briscoe/Green seasons are excellent, you can’t go wrong with any of them. Season 13 has mostly great episodes - I would say my absolute favorites are Asterisk, Chosen and Kid Pro Quo. 
I liked Arthur’s introduction this season and how he brought some personality back to the DA role after the mostly boring Nora - I did think Serena’s whining about Arthur right off the bat was annoying, it seemed like she didn’t give him much of a chance - they were at odds in most episodes.