Season 13: Hello Arthur Branch!

[Xeliou66]

I thought I would get a season 13 thread started since we don’t have one.

In this season, Arthur Branch replaces Nora Lewin as DA - I know Arthur may be the most polarizing character in L&O history, but I’m on the side that likes him, he brought personality and authority back to the DA’s office after the dull Nora years.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I thought I would get a season 13 thread started since we don’t have one.

In this season, Arthur Branch replaces Nora Lewin as DA - I know Arthur may be the most polarizing character in L&O history, but I’m on the side that likes him, he brought personality and authority back to the DA’s office after the dull Nora years.

After Nora I would have taken anyone. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I’ve always liked Dalton as an actor. I remember him from Die Hard II. But here? Foghorn Leghorn with that Southern drawl and the writing for him hitting the viewers he was as opposite from Schiff as night and day. There were very few moments when I liked him because he was behaving like a district attorney-when it came to prosecuting the guilty. I didn’t need to know his personal politics. Just would have been enough to see him want to see the guilty punished. I guess Adam was to the Order side, what Lennie was to the Law side: irreplaceable, so no one would be good enough as DA for me. Jack is good, but ADAM was the BEST.

That said, he was much more preferable to Nora and much more competent.

[Xeliou66]

I saw Smoke yesterday and it will forever disgust me how at the end Serena felt sorry about those god awful parents who sold their kid to the pedophile to get money to help their other son going to jail, saying that they “did it for their son” and now he has to grow up without them. Those parents were disgusting, sorry human beings, there is NO EXCUSE for selling your kid to a pedophile, and Jack was right when he said the kid who they did it for would be better off without them, those people were seriously fucked up. Even Serena, as soft as she was, should’ve realized that the kid was better off without those shithead parents, and those parents weren’t even remorseful and would do it again it seemed like. They were just awful, and I have no idea why Serena was acting like it was a tragedy their sick kid would be without them. 

[andromeda331]

On 3/5/2022 at 4:52 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I saw Smoke yesterday and it will forever disgust me how at the end Serena felt sorry about those god awful parents who sold their kid to the pedophile to get money to help their other son going to jail, saying that they “did it for their son” and now he has to grow up without them. Those parents were disgusting, sorry human beings, there is NO EXCUSE for selling your kid to a pedophile, and Jack was right when he said the kid who they did it for would be better off without them, those people were seriously fucked up. Even Serena, as soft as she was, should’ve realized that the kid was better off without those shithead parents, and those parents weren’t even remorseful and would do it again it seemed like. They were just awful, and I have no idea why Serena was acting like it was a tragedy their sick kid would be without them. 

Me too. That was a horrible thing to say and horrible thing to think. I hated Serena from that moment on. 

[Xeliou66]

15 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Me too. That was a horrible thing to say and horrible thing to think. I hated Serena from that moment on. 

Worst moment for a main character in L&O history IMO, I couldn’t believe it at the end when Serena said “they did it for their son, now he’ll grow up without them” as if it was some kind of tragedy. Jack was absolutely right when he replied “he’s better off”. Those parents were among the worst in L&O history, they were seriously fucked up and I hope they never got out of prison. Like I say, Serena at the end of that episode was the worst any main L&O character looked ever. A close second was Bernard in that awful episode Dignity acting like a baby being born due to a rape was some joyous thing, that sickened me as well, but that’s a discussion for the season 20 Thread. 

[andromeda331]

18 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Worst moment for a main character in L&O history IMO, I couldn’t believe it at the end when Serena said “they did it for their son, now he’ll grow up without them” as if it was some kind of tragedy. Jack was absolutely right when he replied “he’s better off”. Those parents were among the worst in L&O history, they were seriously fucked up and I hope they never got out of prison. Like I say, Serena at the end of that episode was the worst any main L&O character looked ever. A close second was Bernard in that awful episode Dignity acting like a baby being born due to a rape was some joyous thing, that sickened me as well, but that’s a discussion for the season 20 Thread. 

Yeah, both of those were very fucked up things to say. I was shocked Serena and Bernard said them.

Edited March 7, 2022 by andromeda331

[Spartan Girl]

On 3/5/2022 at 6:52 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I saw Smoke yesterday and it will forever disgust me how at the end Serena felt sorry about those god awful parents who sold their kid to the pedophile to get money to help their other son going to jail, saying that they “did it for their son” and now he has to grow up without them.

Especially when her earlier stance was “come on, they couldn’t have KNOWN what would happen when he was left alone with him!” And then there was solid evidence in the form of that check that they not only knew, they literally banked on it. Yet she still believed that having a sick kid gave them a free pass. Should’ve fired her right then and there.

Say what you want about Arthur, but that was one of the episodes when he was right on the money.

[Xeliou66]

Asterisk was on tonight, this is one of my favorite season 13 episodes, but this is one of many times in which Serena annoyed me - she was whining and acting like Jack was doing something unethical by wanting to call the guy who sold the victim steroids - I thought that it was possible that the victim was blackmailing the killer over steroid use as well as over his sexuality, who’s to say that the steroid use wasn’t a part of the blackmail? Judge Bradley didn’t allow them to present the theory that he was being blackmailed over steroids, but I thought it was a possibility and there was nothing unethical about arguing it, and yet Serena was on her high horse throughout acting like Jack was doing something unethical, and I was glad Jack said he had nothing to apologize for at the end. 

Of course Serena and Arthur clashed as usual when Arthur said he wanted them to make a deal and Serena said something about ballplayers getting special treatment and Arthur said they get special treatment by the jury and he could give her Marcia Clark’s number if she wanted another opinion. Serena was just so whiny sometimes. 

[andromeda331]

On 7/7/2022 at 7:48 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Asterisk was on tonight, this is one of my favorite season 13 episodes, but this is one of many times in which Serena annoyed me - she was whining and acting like Jack was doing something unethical by wanting to call the guy who sold the victim steroids - I thought that it was possible that the victim was blackmailing the killer over steroid use as well as over his sexuality, who’s to say that the steroid use wasn’t a part of the blackmail? Judge Bradley didn’t allow them to present the theory that he was being blackmailed over steroids, but I thought it was a possibility and there was nothing unethical about arguing it, and yet Serena was on her high horse throughout acting like Jack was doing something unethical, and I was glad Jack said he had nothing to apologize for at the end. 

Of course Serena and Arthur clashed as usual when Arthur said he wanted them to make a deal and Serena said something about ballplayers getting special treatment and Arthur said they get special treatment by the jury and he could give her Marcia Clark’s number if she wanted another opinion. Serena was just so whiny sometimes. 

Yeah, we really don't know what the victim was blackmailing him over. It could be steriods or being gay or both. But I don't think he was wrong to argue steriods. He had to argue something and they weren't allowed to use the possibility of him being gay.  It wasn't unethical it was a theory of the case. Jack is allowed to argue a theory. He's stretched it a lot farther in other cases. This one not so much. I like the way Jack pointed out to the jury just because they don't know the reason doesn't mean he didn't have one.

I also have zero sympathy for the murderer in Maritime. Yes, he was raised by an abusive father but he threw away chance after chance that his brother gave him. He threw away his own career. Then murdered his brother and two innocent people when his brother finally had enough and cut him off. He was happy to take from his brother while at the same time happy to be the victim in every scenario. He had a record too. He whined that he took the deal because it wasn't going his way. The fact that he was guilty never seem to register or any regret for murdering his brother and two other people. It was all me, me, me. 

[Xeliou66]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah, we really don't know what the victim was blackmailing him over. It could be steriods or being gay or both. But I don't think he was wrong to argue steriods. He had to argue something and they weren't allowed to use the possibility of him being gay.  It wasn't unethical it was a theory of the case. Jack is allowed to argue a theory. He's stretched it a lot farther in other cases. This one not so much. I like the way Jack pointed out to the jury just because they don't know the reason doesn't mean he didn't have one.

I also have zero sympathy for the murderer in Maritime. Yes, he was raised by an abusive father but he threw away chance after chance that his brother gave him. He threw away his own career. Then murdered his brother and two innocent people when his brother finally had enough and cut him off. He was happy to take from his brother while at the same time happy to be the victim in every scenario. He had a record too. He whined that he took the deal because it wasn't going his way. The fact that he was guilty never seem to register or any regret for murdering his brother and two other people. It was all me, me, me. 

Yeah I did not get why Serena was being so whiny in Asterisk, I thought Jack was right to at least try to offer a theory about motive, I was unsure about Bradley's ruling against him and whether it was right or not but Jack did nothing unethical. There were a couple of times where I thought Jack crossed the line or came close to it, Mad Dog and Refuge are the two episodes that come to mind, but he didn't come anywhere near crossing the line in this episode, he just did his job and Serena was whiny for no reason. I liked Jack's closing a lot in Asterisk as well, and I also thought Skoda provided convincing testimony about the defendant knowing right from wrong despite his steroid use. I really like the detective stuff in that episode as well, it's a Briscoe/Green episode after all and those are always great. 

I did not feel much sympathy for the killer in Maritime either, while his dad was an epic sack of shit that didn't give the killer the right to kill innocent people, his brother was good to him and he just blew his chances and then killed his brother and two other innocent people. 

[Xeliou66]

Chosen, Dworkin’s first appearance, was on - this was another episode where I found Serena whiny and irritating, she had a lot of nerve to basically call Jack an anti Semite, when nothing Jack said or did was bigoted - and she didn’t say a word about the bigotry of the killer and his wife, I thought Jack asking the wife whether or not she would’ve considered the murder justified if the victim had been Jewish was a great question, it showed that the wife thought some lives took priority over others, her and her husband thought that helping Jews overseas was more important than the life of the victim or the law. I’m glad that the jury convicted the murderer, I didn’t feel any sympathy for him, he was a thief and a killer. I have to say though, I admire Dworkin’s cleverness of trying to gain sympathy for his client when there was overwhelming evidence of his guilt, Dworkin is a clever attorney and very entertaining to watch, there’s a reason why he is one of the most memorable attorneys despite only appearing 3 times on the Mothership. Dworkin was great in this episode, but Jack did a great job as well and I was glad he got the jury to look past Dworkin distracting them from the case at hand and got them to convict Strelzik because he was obviously guilty of cold blooded murder. 

I loved the scene in Arthur’s office after Dworkin tried to blackmail the DA’s by saying his client had dirt on prominent people in his “little black book” and Arthur simply asked if the defendant killed Gordon Meeks, and McCoy said he did, and if anyone in this room had their name in the book, and McCoy said of course not, and Arthur simply said “then convict the SOB”.

Judge Miller was a joke, he had a clear bias towards the defendant and let the trial become about the defendant’s politics and activism, I liked Jack going off on him. It’s a great episode, but I just once again was annoyed by Serena and had no idea how she could act like Jack was doing something wrong. 

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Chosen, Dworkin’s first appearance, was on - this was another episode where I found Serena whiny and irritating, she had a lot of nerve to basically call Jack an anti Semite, when nothing Jack said or did was bigoted - and she didn’t say a word about the bigotry of the killer and his wife, I thought Jack asking the wife whether or not she would’ve considered the murder justified if the victim had been Jewish was a great question, it showed that the wife thought some lives took priority over others, her and her husband thought that helping Jews overseas was more important than the life of the victim or the law. I’m glad that the jury convicted the murderer, I didn’t feel any sympathy for him, he was a thief and a killer. I have to say though, I admire Dworkin’s cleverness of trying to gain sympathy for his client when there was overwhelming evidence of his guilt, Dworkin is a clever attorney and very entertaining to watch, there’s a reason why he is one of the most memorable attorneys despite only appearing 3 times on the Mothership. Dworkin was great in this episode, but Jack did a great job as well and I was glad he got the jury to look past Dworkin distracting them from the case at hand and got them to convict Strelzik because he was obviously guilty of cold blooded murder. 

She really was. That was an odd thing to accuse Jack of. That's one thing Jack's always been consistent on is not letting murderers hide behind religion. I've always liked that about him. I don't like when murderers do that either. Him asking the murderer's wife what if the victim was Jewish? That is a good question. That's one question I have Of course the wife couldn't say anything because she wouldn't if the victim had been Jewish. For all the murderer claiming he did it for Jews and Israel. That's full of crap. He did it because he was a theif and a murderer. I do like they used this defense though since it's usually it's usually people using Christianity to justify or get out of punishment on this show. It isn't anymore right. My other question when it comes to those cases and those who think they should get off. What if the murderer was Muslim? Would everyone be so eager to have him found not guilty? What if he was Wicca? Or something else? If your an atheist your just out of luck.

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I loved the scene in Arthur’s office after Dworkin tried to blackmail the DA’s by saying his client had dirt on prominent people in his “little black book” and Arthur simply asked if the defendant killed Gordon Meeks, and McCoy said he did, and if anyone in this room had their name in the book, and McCoy said of course not, and Arthur simply said “then convict the SOB”.

I like that Arthur didn't fall for the blackmail. I'm always glad when they turned down deals like that on the show. Even Nora who I hated turned down that scumbag defense attorney who wanted to rat out his clients after he was convicted of his wife's murder.

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Judge Miller was a joke, he had a clear bias towards the defendant and let the trial become about the defendant’s politics and activism, I liked Jack going off on him. It’s a great episode, but I just once again was annoyed by Serena and had no idea how she could act like Jack was doing something wrong. 

He really was. He showed his clear bias and should have recused himself. I wish he had. That would have been more interesting for a judge to realize he was too close to it and recuse himself. Not at all realistic though. He was yet another judge who was clearly bias.

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

She really was. That was an odd thing to accuse Jack of. That's one thing Jack's always been consistent on is not letting murderers hide behind religion. I've always liked that about him. I don't like when murderers do that either. Him asking the murderer's wife what if the victim was Jewish? That is a good question. That's one question I have Of course the wife couldn't say anything because she wouldn't if the victim had been Jewish. For all the murderer claiming he did it for Jews and Israel. That's full of crap. He did it because he was a theif and a murderer. I do like they used this defense though since it's usually it's usually people using Christianity to justify or get out of punishment on this show. It isn't anymore right. My other question when it comes to those cases and those who think they should get off. What if the murderer was Muslim? Would everyone be so eager to have him found not guilty? What if he was Wicca? Or something else? If your an atheist your just out of luck.

I like that Arthur didn't fall for the blackmail. I'm always glad when they turned down deals like that on the show. Even Nora who I hated turned down that scumbag defense attorney who wanted to rat out his clients after he was convicted of his wife's murder.

He really was. He showed his clear bias and should have recused himself. I wish he had. That would have been more interesting for a judge to realize he was too close to it and recuse himself. Not at all realistic though. He was yet another judge who was clearly bias.

Yes I thought it was very odd how Serena basically called Jack a bigot, while not saying a word about the perp and his wife believing that some lives were worth more than others/that helping Jews overseas was more important than the life of the victim or the laws of America. Jack did everything absolutely right in this episode and Serena was whining for no reason, she should’ve been pissed at the defendant, his wife and the judge, but instead she calls Jack a bigot?! Just another episode where I thought Serena came off as a whiny crybaby. Jack never let anyone off the hook for using religion to justify breaking the law, regardless of what religion it was.

Dworkin was clever, getting as many Jewish people on the jury as possible and then trotting out his defense, Dworkin was clever and creative, but I liked how Jack said this was about the laws of America and that the defendant was a thief and a murderer, it didn’t matter why he was stealing the money/committed the murder, he still killed someone in cold blood and deserved to be punished. I felt no sympathy for the killer, there are numerous other ways to help Jews in Israel that don’t involve murder and theft, and I thought the perp and his wife were quite arrogant and the wife’s silence when Jack asked her what she would think if the victim had been Jewish was very telling, she was a bigot who thought some lives were worth more than others. And that’s why it pissed me off that Serena called Jack a bigot instead of calling out the wife’s bigotry.

I have to say, I like Arthur more than a lot of L&O fans do, he had a commanding personality and brought some life back to the DA role after 2 years of the soft Nora Lewin. I usually didn’t side with Arthur on his politics, but I thought he was a good DA and I liked his colorful personality.

I loved the opening of Chosen as well, with the Wall St douchebags breaking into the wrong car, and then in the holding cell when they said they worked on Wall St, Briscoe said “so the part about you being common criminals wasn’t far off” or something like that. The detective work was good in this episode, as it always was with Briscoe and Green, but the episode focused much more on the legal stuff. 

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes I thought it was very odd how Serena basically called Jack a bigot, while not saying a word about the perp and his wife believing that some lives were worth more than others/that helping Jews overseas was more important than the life of the victim or the laws of America. Jack did everything absolutely right in this episode and Serena was whining for no reason, she should’ve been pissed at the defendant, his wife and the judge, but instead she calls Jack a bigot?! Just another episode where I thought Serena came off as a whiny crybaby. Jack never let anyone off the hook for using religion to justify breaking the law, regardless of what religion it was.

It really was. He wasn't doing anything bigot and he never had. He always tried to hold people responsible for their actions. I really don't get why she did that or was so whining. There were other cases where Jack pushed the bounds of law in questionable areas that would make more sense to say something.  Or like in Patsy where there really was reasonable doubt Sebastian Roche's character wasn't guilty of anything and that the victim had actually murdered her sister.  

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Dworkin was clever, getting as many Jewish people on the jury as possible and then trotting out his defense, Dworkin was clever and creative, but I liked how Jack said this was about the laws of America and that the defendant was a thief and a murderer, it didn’t matter why he was stealing the money/committed the murder, he still killed someone in cold blood and deserved to be punished. I felt no sympathy for the killer, there are numerous other ways to help Jews in Israel that don’t involve murder and theft, and I thought the perp and his wife were quite arrogant and the wife’s silence when Jack asked her what she would think if the victim had been Jewish was very telling, she was a bigot who thought some lives were worth more than others. And that’s why it pissed me off that Serena called Jack a bigot instead of calling out the wife’s bigotry.

It really was a clever defense. The Jews on the jury might be less likely to convict. But there's a lot of Christians that tend to be pro-Jewish and proIsrael.  It's entirely possibly they might have bought the defense or gone easier on him.

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I have to say, I like Arthur more than a lot of L&O fans do, he had a commanding personality and brought some life back to the DA role after 2 years of the soft Nora Lewin. I usually didn’t side with Arthur on his politics, but I thought he was a good DA and I liked his colorful personality.

I do too. After Nora almost anyone is better. He did his job and he also understood his job was to proscute. Something Nora never seemed to understand. If you don't like putting people behind bars the DA job isn't for you. 

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I loved the opening of Chosen as well, with the Wall St douchebags breaking into the wrong car, and then in the holding cell when they said they worked on Wall St, Briscoe said “so the part about you being common criminals wasn’t far off” or something like that. The detective work was good in this episode, as it always was with Briscoe and Green, but the episode focused much more on the legal stuff. 

So do I. That was hilarious. 

[Xeliou66]

17 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

It really was. He wasn't doing anything bigot and he never had. He always tried to hold people responsible for their actions. I really don't get why she did that or was so whining. There were other cases where Jack pushed the bounds of law in questionable areas that would make more sense to say something.  Or like in Patsy where there really was reasonable doubt Sebastian Roche's character wasn't guilty of anything and that the victim had actually murdered her sister.  

It really was a clever defense. The Jews on the jury might be less likely to convict. But there's a lot of Christians that tend to be pro-Jewish and proIsrael.  It's entirely possibly they might have bought the defense or gone easier on him.

I do too. After Nora almost anyone is better. He did his job and he also understood his job was to proscute. Something Nora never seemed to understand. If you don't like putting people behind bars the DA job isn't for you. 

So do I. That was hilarious. 

Yes there were a few times where Jack either came close to crossing the line or was overly stubborn about a case and needed someone to call him out - this wasn’t one of them. Jack did and said absolutely nothing wrong here, and he was right to be pissed at Judge Miller and call out the defendant and his wife. It was, like Jack said, the defendant basically changing his plea to guilty with a reason. Serena was just incredibly whiny a lot of the time, and frequently sympathized with the defense and took more issue with how Jack and Arthur went about prosecuting than about the crime committed. Serena is my least favorite ADA, and there’s a reason why she’s probably the most disliked character from the Mothership, along with Beauty Queen Cassady.

Dworkin’s a great character, he always came up with good defense strategies for his clients, and he’s very entertaining to watch. I’m still hoping he pops up again on the franchise, either here or on SVU.

Briscoe and Green did a good investigation as usual, I liked how they deduced Strelzik was the killer, based on the knife from the steakhouse used in the murder and the reading glasses that were found at the scene.

Chosen might be my favorite episode of season 13 - there’s a lot to like about it, with the good detective work and entertaining legal battle. But I really wished Serena would just shut up. 

[andromeda331]

29 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes there were a few times where Jack either came close to crossing the line or was overly stubborn about a case and needed someone to call him out - this wasn’t one of them. Jack did and said absolutely nothing wrong here, and he was right to be pissed at Judge Miller and call out the defendant and his wife. It was, like Jack said, the defendant basically changing his plea to guilty with a reason. Serena was just incredibly whiny a lot of the time, and frequently sympathized with the defense and took more issue with how Jack and Arthur went about prosecuting than about the crime committed. Serena is my least favorite ADA, and there’s a reason why she’s probably the most disliked character from the Mothership, along with Beauty Queen Cassady.

Yes, if this case had been one of those moment it would have made sense but it wasn't. Beauty Queen was a misstep. Either they really didn't want to hire an actress to play a cop or they didn't put much thought into the character. They at least corrected by the end of the season. Serena was doing this crap in early on. This is season thirteen she's this whiny and crappy. Given there was no course correct that's exactly what they wanted her to be. They could have had her have the oppose voice without having her feel sorry for the parents who let their son be abused by a pedophile for money. She really was the worse.

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Dworkin’s a great character, he always came up with good defense strategies for his clients, and he’s very entertaining to watch. I’m still hoping he pops up again on the franchise, either here or on SVU.

He really was. 

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Briscoe and Green did a good investigation as usual, I liked how they deduced Strelzik was the killer, based on the knife from the steakhouse used in the murder and the reading glasses that were found at the scene.

Their always good. Their my favorite pairing.

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Chosen might be my favorite episode of season 13 - there’s a lot to like about it, with the good detective work and entertaining legal battle. But I really wished Serena would just shut up. 

It's one my favorites. There's a lot of good episodes in season 13

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yes, if this case had been one of those moment it would have made sense but it wasn't. Beauty Queen was a misstep. Either they really didn't want to hire an actress to play a cop or they didn't put much thought into the character. They at least corrected by the end of the season. Serena was doing this crap in early on. This is season thirteen she's this whiny and crappy. Given there was no course correct that's exactly what they wanted her to be. They could have had her have the oppose voice without having her feel sorry for the parents who let their son be abused by a pedophile for money. She really was the worse.

He really was. 

Their always good. Their my favorite pairing.

It's one my favorites. There's a lot of good episodes in season 13

I get that they wanted Serena to be different from previous ADA’s, but she was just way too whiny to be likable, and she was rather wooden and one note as well.

Briscoe and Green will always be my favorite pairing, they were just excellent together.

Season 13 is filled with good episodes - what are your favorites from it? My favorite season 13 episodes are Chosen, Kid Pro Quo, Asterisk, Shangra-La and True Crime. But I like most season 13 episodes, they had some really good plots.

[andromeda331]

On 7/21/2022 at 8:32 AM, Xeliou66 said:

I get that they wanted Serena to be different from previous ADA’s, but she was just way too whiny to be likable, and she was rather wooden and one note as well.

Briscoe and Green will always be my favorite pairing, they were just excellent together.

Season 13 is filled with good episodes - what are your favorites from it? My favorite season 13 episodes are Chosen, Kid Pro Quo, Asterisk, Shangra-La and True Crime. But I like most season 13 episodes, they had some really good plots.

Chosen and Asterisk are my favorites from season thirteen. I agree most season thirteen had really great plots. My favorite moment is Melnick getting shot. Followed by sadden that she didn't die or end up in prison for what she did in Open Season. She knowingly went against a judge's order because of her usual BS and it lead to a man's death. 

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Chosen and Asterisk are my favorites from season thirteen. I agree most season thirteen had really great plots. My favorite moment is Melnick getting shot. Followed by sadden that she didn't die or end up in prison for what she did in Open Season. She knowingly went against a judge's order because of her usual BS and it lead to a man's death. 

I think Chosen and Asterisk may be my 2 favorites from season 13 as well - those are 2 fantastic, near perfect episodes - both had great detective work and great legal stuff, very compelling and great episodes with a lot to discuss and delve into in them. Serena was somewhat irritating in both episodes, but the episodes are fantastic - 2 of my all time favorites.

And yeah fuck Melnick - Jack helping her out was one of the few times I strongly disagreed with Jack, Melnick deserved whatever punishment the court saw fit, she defied a judge’s order because she didn’t like it and thought she was above the law and the rules, and a prosecutor died as a result. At the very least, Melnick should’ve been disbarred. She’s probably my least favorite defense attorney, she was so goddamn self righteous. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I think Chosen and Asterisk may be my 2 favorites from season 13 as well - those are 2 fantastic, near perfect episodes - both had great detective work and great legal stuff, very compelling and great episodes with a lot to discuss and delve into in them. Serena was somewhat irritating in both episodes, but the episodes are fantastic - 2 of my all time favorites.

I agree. They are as close to perfect. I love in Asterisk when they stumble on the possible real reason for the murder. It was a good twist but they can't use and there's no way to use another way that they might have discovered it. Great detective work and great lines.  I always like Jack going after a murderer using religion and I like him reminding the jury that taking steriods is illegal. The defense in both cases were good. 

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And yeah fuck Melnick - Jack helping her out was one of the few times I strongly disagreed with Jack, Melnick deserved whatever punishment the court saw fit, she defied a judge’s order because she didn’t like it and thought she was above the law and the rules, and a prosecutor died as a result. At the very least, Melnick should’ve been disbarred. She’s probably my least favorite defense attorney, she was so goddamn self righteous. 

Same here. He shouldn't have. She did it because like you said she thought she was above the law not because she though her client was being railroaded or something. She was using for her own agenda as always and it got someone killed. This was the episode we should have seen her thrown in jail and disbarred. She'd been pulling crap like that for years and she finally went too far. She's the defense attorney I hate the most because she was always pushing her opinions and her agenda instead of doing her job of defending her clients. Most of her clients could probably get an appeal for ineffective counsel based on the crap she pulled. 

[Xeliou66]

12 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree. They are as close to perfect. I love in Asterisk when they stumble on the possible real reason for the murder. It was a good twist but they can't use and there's no way to use another way that they might have discovered it. Great detective work and great lines.  I always like Jack going after a murderer using religion and I like him reminding the jury that taking steriods is illegal. The defense in both cases were good. 

Same here. He shouldn't have. She did it because like you said she thought she was above the law not because she though her client was being railroaded or something. She was using for her own agenda as always and it got someone killed. This was the episode we should have seen her thrown in jail and disbarred. She'd been pulling crap like that for years and she finally went too far. She's the defense attorney I hate the most because she was always pushing her opinions and her agenda instead of doing her job of defending her clients. Most of her clients could probably get an appeal for ineffective counsel based on the crap she pulled. 

I love all of the detective work in both Chosen and Asterisk, and the legal stuff was great as well. I thought Jack gave excellent closing arguments in both episodes. Those are 2 of my all time favorite episodes.

Melnick was so incredibly self righteous and thought the rules didn’t apply to her, she drove me nuts, and it’s a real shame she didn’t get disbarred for her actions in Open Season.

[Xeliou66]

The start of season 13 is on today, American Jihad is a pretty good season premiere, although the ending was a bit confusing, so did Landen kill just because the girl he was in love with rejected him when he expressed a romantic interest in her, and he blamed the woman the girl admired for it so he killed her? That’s what I took away from it but it could’ve been clearer. Entertaining courtroom scenes in this one and a good introduction to Arthur, Serena didn’t care for Arthur from the start it seemed, I like Arthur and his colorful personality.

Shangra-La was up next, good episode, good twist that Fiona was a fraud who was much older than she claimed, it was interesting how Jack was wrong in his assessment of the case and swallowed Fiona’s lies and playing the victim, and it was Serena who was right all along about it. Jack was pissed when he realized he was wrong, as Skoda noticed. I liked that Arthur got on Jack for being overly soft at the start with Fiona, saying he gave her a deal he wouldn’t give his own granddaughter.

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The start of season 13 is on today, American Jihad is a pretty good season premiere, although the ending was a bit confusing, so did Landen kill just because the girl he was in love with rejected him when he expressed a romantic interest in her, and he blamed the woman the girl admired for it so he killed her? That’s what I took away from it but it could’ve been clearer. Entertaining courtroom scenes in this one and a good introduction to Arthur, Serena didn’t care for Arthur from the start it seemed, I like Arthur and his colorful personality.

Basically. Also he was an incel loser with mommy issues that blamed all women for his problems, so there’s that too.

[Xeliou66]

54 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Basically. Also he was an incel loser with mommy issues that blamed all women for his problems, so there’s that too.

Oh yes, he had major issues with his mother and I think that started his anger towards women, and I guess being rejected by the girl he was obsessed with just drove him over the edge, I’m just kind of unsure why he chose to kill the victim, I guess he saw her as a strong women that was keeping the target of his obsession from him so that’s why he committed the murder.

[andromeda331]

On 9/20/2022 at 3:46 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Oh yes, he had major issues with his mother and I think that started his anger towards women, and I guess being rejected by the girl he was obsessed with just drove him over the edge, I’m just kind of unsure why he chose to kill the victim, I guess he saw her as a strong women that was keeping the target of his obsession from him so that’s why he committed the murder.

Pretty much. He was rejected by a girl. Boo hoo. Then went nuts and killed another woman. Gee I can't imagine why any woman would reject him. 

[andromeda331]

I can't believe Skoda actually believed Jackie Scott's defense in Bitch. Really? Someone like her suddenly has all these hormone and other problems that caused her to kill a man. I expected better from him. I'm glad Liz pointed out that it was crap. Which it was. 

The murderer in Absentia is so annoying I can't believe his girlfriend was stupid enough to stay with him so long. Oh no it was him cheating on her that was the last straw. Really the entire government was after him and killed his girlfriend just to frame him. He wishes he was that important. His lawyer was an ass too thinking his client deserved "time served" for the murder.

[Xeliou66]

Season 13 is on today for the first time in a while -

Seer was on, this has to be one of the stranger L&O episodes, with the defendant claiming to be psychic, and then the final twist of the victim’s female friend killing her out of jealousy and obsession. Unusual episode but pretty good.

Kid Pro Quo was on next, this is a great episode, fantastic investigation and trial scenes, this episode was Briscoe and Green at their finest, and the legal stuff was equally good, Rothenberg was a compelling adversary for the DA’s. The perp in this one was such a smug prick, I loved the scene where Briscoe/Green arrest him at the auction. The arraignment judge was great “I love a good society murder, perhaps we’ll all get famous”. I liked how they dug through Scofield’s financials to figure out the corruption scheme of all of those elites scratching each other’s backs. I liked the ending lines, very accurate about cash trumping merit. Excellent episode.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Season 13 is on today for the first time in a while -

Seer was on, this has to be one of the stranger L&O episodes, with the defendant claiming to be psychic, and then the final twist of the victim’s female friend killing her out of jealousy and obsession. Unusual episode but pretty good.

Kid Pro Quo was on next, this is a great episode, fantastic investigation and trial scenes, this episode was Briscoe and Green at their finest, and the legal stuff was equally good, Rothenberg was a compelling adversary for the DA’s. The perp in this one was such a smug prick, I loved the scene where Briscoe/Green arrest him at the auction. The arraignment judge was great “I love a good society murder, perhaps we’ll all get famous”. I liked how they dug through Scofield’s financials to figure out the corruption scheme of all of those elites scratching each other’s backs. I liked the ending lines, very accurate about cash trumping merit. Excellent episode.

That was a really great episode. I love McCoy knocking him down when he testified. He really saw himself as good as the students' parents. As snobby and better then everyone and seemed to believe that he was their equal. How much do you make? 60,000. Wow, really? Your snobby "friends" sure didn't help him get better pay. And he couldn't even afford to buy his apartment. I liked that he kind of pointed out that his friends saw him the same way he saw Landon as an employee. Such a smug bastard. Him trying to defend rejecting Cassie for the son of the porn king. Yeah, no one is going to by that. Did he really think that no one was going to question it? Even if no one knew about Cassie, all the parents' of the school and the board was going to wonder how that kid got into their "elite" school and there's no way they wouldn't find out. Killing Landon would have accomplished nothing.  

 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Season 13 is on today for the first time in a while -

Seer was on, this has to be one of the stranger L&O episodes, with the defendant claiming to be psychic, and then the final twist of the victim’s female friend killing her out of jealousy and obsession. Unusual episode but pretty good.

That's an unusual case. But I like the twist of the friend killing her. The "psychic" was a good suspect and it's easy to see why he was arrested. He knew details of the crime that he only could have if he had been there. Given how much stalking he did of Rachel there's no way he wouldn't have been there. Stalkers have been know to kill the those who they stalk. I'm surprised Rachel's friend messed up her story on the stand. I guess she assumed that it didn't matter. It's surprising that the defense lawyer didn't pick up on that detail. That would at least give some reasonable doubt or discredit the witness.

[Xeliou66]

9 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

That was a really great episode. I love McCoy knocking him down when he testified. He really saw himself as good as the students' parents. As snobby and better then everyone and seemed to believe that he was their equal. How much do you make? 60,000. Wow, really? Your snobby "friends" sure didn't help him get better pay. And he couldn't even afford to buy his apartment. I liked that he kind of pointed out that his friends saw him the same way he saw Landon as an employee. Such a smug bastard. Him trying to defend rejecting Cassie for the son of the porn king. Yeah, no one is going to by that. Did he really think that no one was going to question it? Even if no one knew about Cassie, all the parents' of the school and the board was going to wonder how that kid got into their "elite" school and there's no way they wouldn't find out. Killing Landon would have accomplished nothing.  

 

Yes Jack’s cross of Scofield was great. I really liked the trial scenes of Jack and Rothenberg going back and forth. Green was right, Scofield was a condescending bastard. Briscoe and Green had some great lines in this episode and some great detective work. Briscoe had a funny line when they were talking to Rodgers and Rodgers said the victim had an oophorectomy, and Lennie quips “she had her oophors removed?” that cracked me up for some reason. It was a really great episode from start to finish. Only weird thing was that Van Buren didn’t appear. Serena was good in this episode actually, and I liked Branch’s comments about how it was all about money with the people involved in the case. 

 

6 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

That's an unusual case. But I like the twist of the friend killing her. The "psychic" was a good suspect and it's easy to see why he was arrested. He knew details of the crime that he only could have if he had been there. Given how much stalking he did of Rachel there's no way he wouldn't have been there. Stalkers have been know to kill the those who they stalk. I'm surprised Rachel's friend messed up her story on the stand. I guess she assumed that it didn't matter. It's surprising that the defense lawyer didn't pick up on that detail. That would at least give some reasonable doubt or discredit the witness.

Yes it was an unusual case, and I liked the twist as to who the perp was as well. I liked the ending scene where Jack said that a lot of people paid to watch psychics talk to spirit of George Washington, and Branch replied “what’s the point, I hear the old boy wasn’t such a good interview when he was alive”. Arthur was a colorful guy, he’s kind of polarizing amongst L&O fans but I happen to like him, no one could take Adam’s place but Arthur was a good DA.

[andromeda331]

10 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes Jack’s cross of Scofield was great. I really liked the trial scenes of Jack and Rothenberg going back and forth. Green was right, Scofield was a condescending bastard. Briscoe and Green had some great lines in this episode and some great detective work. Briscoe had a funny line when they were talking to Rodgers and Rodgers said the victim had an oophorectomy, and Lennie quips “she had her oophors removed?” that cracked me up for some reason. It was a really great episode from start to finish. Only weird thing was that Van Buren didn’t appear. Serena was good in this episode actually, and I liked Branch’s comments about how it was all about money with the people involved in the case. 

Yeah, Green was right and then he admitted he wanted to kill Scofield. Can't say I blame him. They both had great lines. I love Lennie guessing that "Dante" was a strip club. I would have guessed the same thing I didn't get into Dante's Inferno until a couple years ago. Lennie telling Green to watch more Masterpiece Theater when he was confused by taking an evening constutional. Or he could have watched Bewitched where I learned what that meant.

 

Quote

Yes it was an unusual case, and I liked the twist as to who the perp was as well. I liked the ending scene where Jack said that a lot of people paid to watch psychics talk to spirit of George Washington, and Branch replied “what’s the point, I hear the old boy wasn’t such a good interview when he was alive”. Arthur was a colorful guy, he’s kind of polarizing amongst L&O fans but I happen to like him, no one could take Adam’s place but Arthur was a good DA.

That was a good scene. Yeah, people pay a lot of money to watch and/or talk to psychics. I used to believe in them but Leverage episode did a good job showing how they work after the psychic convinces Parker he's real when zeros in on the fact her brother was killed riding a bike when they were kids which she never told anyone not even the Leverage crew. John Oliver also did a good sigment on them that was really funny. They even test one by having a couple come to her to find out what happened to their son. Who's sitting a table away from them. Of course, she didn't "see" that. I also love John's response when one psychic is asked why murdered people don't tell people who murdered them. The psychic's answer was there had been enough killing and those murdered don't want anyone else murdered or in jail. John's basically "Bullshit! If I'm murdered I'd be telling who murdered me! I want that person to pay!"

 

 

 

[Xeliou66]

Shangra-La was just on - this is a good episode, one of Serena’s better episodes - she was on to the fact that the girl who wasn’t actually a teenager was manipulative from the start, whereas Jack was wrong about the teacher being the driving force behind the murder. Usually I didn’t care for Serena but she was good here. I liked the scene where Arthur was rambling about how the Chief Justice wanted him to go to a banquet when he had given him a footnote in an opinion, and Arthur saying his writings deserved more than a footnote, Jack and Serena thought Arthur wasn’t listening but then Arthur suddenly switched topics to discussing the case. Arthur had some amusing scenes. And I liked how Arthur criticized Jack for giving her a sweetheart deal originally, I don’t know why Jack was initially so soft. 
Briscoe/Green were great as always, I loved how Lennie figured out the security camera had been tampered with and how they got to the bottom of the case. Skoda was good as always as well. 

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Shangra-La was just on - this is a good episode, one of Serena’s better episodes - she was on to the fact that the girl who wasn’t actually a teenager was manipulative from the start, whereas Jack was wrong about the teacher being the driving force behind the murder. Usually I didn’t care for Serena but she was good here. I liked the scene where Arthur was rambling about how the Chief Justice wanted him to go to a banquet when he had given him a footnote in an opinion, and Arthur saying his writings deserved more than a footnote, Jack and Serena thought Arthur wasn’t listening but then Arthur suddenly switched topics to discussing the case. Arthur had some amusing scenes. And I liked how Arthur criticized Jack for giving her a sweetheart deal originally, I don’t know why Jack was initially so soft. 
Briscoe/Green were great as always, I loved how Lennie figured out the security camera had been tampered with and how they got to the bottom of the case. Skoda was good as always as well. 

I do like that Serena was on to the girl right off the bat. Although I feel like most women would be. Most have seen that kind of thing before. I know I have. It reminded me of the scene in Bitch when Jackie's talking to Skoda and Liz about her issues and Liz is rolling her eyes while Skoda buys it. The twist that she wasn't a teen was really unexpected. She did a good job of acting like a teen. All I can say is Jack got sandbagged by her. Although it's rare for him. That definitely was why he went after her a lot harder. I love Briscoe/Green they are just the best pair. I love their banter and jokes. They work well as a time. I love Lennie figuring out the camera was tampered with.

It's funny that a good Serena episode is followed by one where she's annoying. She would not stop talking about the death penalty. If she cared that much about it then run for office or do as Branch suggested move to Illinois. I do like her realizing the purse in the next episode the Ring was an evening bag. 

 

 

 

 

[andromeda331]

True Crime-While Shane's death turned out to be a murder. The cop turned author was also wrong about he said if he was going to commit suicide wouldn't he have done it before then. Lots of celebrities make being even for years and still end up committing suicide. Money and fame doesn't always fix personal demons. 

Genius-It's an interesting case since the victim was so dispecible and the murderer wants the death penalty. I'm not comfortable with the defense trying to save the murderer because of his talent especially his mentor talking about how the murderer should be let go because of his writing talent. Especially since talent has also allowed rapists and murderers to get away with their crimes for the same reason. Also the mentor was the reason the murderer only served half of his time in jail. He'd still be in jail but have killed another person. He never seems to realize that although he probably wouldn't care.   

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

True Crime-While Shane's death turned out to be a murder. The cop turned author was also wrong about he said if he was going to commit suicide wouldn't he have done it before then. Lots of celebrities make being even for years and still end up committing suicide. Money and fame doesn't always fix personal demons. 

Genius-It's an interesting case since the victim was so dispecible and the murderer wants the death penalty. I'm not comfortable with the defense trying to save the murderer because of his talent especially his mentor talking about how the murderer should be let go because of his writing talent. Especially since talent has also allowed rapists and murderers to get away with their crimes for the same reason. Also the mentor was the reason the murderer only served half of his time in jail. He'd still be in jail but have killed another person. He never seems to realize that although he probably wouldn't care.   

True Crime is a good episode, I liked the case and I liked how Jack realized at the end that the perp had also killed Shane, good twist. Foster, the ex cop, irritated me, I liked when Jack bluntly told him the world was a better place since he quit the police force. It was also one of the few times Lennie sort of annoyed me, when he defended Foster, I wasn’t sure what that was about other than he had known Foster for a while, but I was 100% on Jack’s side. Arthur had some good scenes in the episode. It’s a good case.

Genius was interesting, and I agree about being annoyed with the defense for suggesting that the killer should get off easier due to his intelligence, people shouldn’t get better treatment for having special talent. The guy killed somebody for no reason, he didn’t know the guy he killed was a violent Klansman, and he felt zero remorse for it, he was a pure sociopath, as Skoda said, he couldn’t care less about anyone. I liked the Jack/Arthur scene at the end where they discussed the case. It was interesting how Green had drinks with the mentor trying to determine if he was the killer, Briscoe/Green’s investigation was really good as usual.

[andromeda331]

On 2/16/2023 at 8:11 AM, Xeliou66 said:

True Crime is a good episode, I liked the case and I liked how Jack realized at the end that the perp had also killed Shane, good twist. Foster, the ex cop, irritated me, I liked when Jack bluntly told him the world was a better place since he quit the police force. It was also one of the few times Lennie sort of annoyed me, when he defended Foster, I wasn’t sure what that was about other than he had known Foster for a while, but I was 100% on Jack’s side. Arthur had some good scenes in the episode. It’s a good case.

I like Jack figuring it out too. I didn't the first time I saw the episode. I never connected the guitar and him saying he hadn't seen Shane in five years. I thought Shane left it to him in his will or Patty gave it to him. That was a really great twist. I agree with Jack about Foster even at the end Lennie also finally agreed with Jack too. I don't know why it took Lennie if they worked together or had some great bust or something it would make sense but it really didn't seem like that. Just that he was an ex-cop. I get that to a point but very early on Parker proved he was untrustworthy. He broke into an apartment for evidence. Lennie should have been upset he would have known it would get tossed. I like the twist also that Parker lied about everything. I really didn't think he was. I really thought he broke for the evidence and for whatever he had on Patty and Shane. Both he would want for his book. I hope the other cases he "investigated" as a writer get looked into. There's no way this was the only time.

Quote

 

Genius was interesting, and I agree about being annoyed with the defense for suggesting that the killer should get off easier due to his intelligence, people shouldn’t get better treatment for having special talent. The guy killed somebody for no reason, he didn’t know the guy he killed was a violent Klansman, and he felt zero remorse for it, he was a pure sociopath, as Skoda said, he couldn’t care less about anyone. I liked the Jack/Arthur scene at the end where they discussed the case. It was interesting how Green had drinks with the mentor trying to determine if he was the killer, Briscoe/Green’s investigation was really good as usual.

 

I agree no one should get better treatment for a special talent. That's a good point about how the murderer didn't know the man he murdered was violent klansman. That didn't matter. If it had been anyone else as the cabbie he would have killed him too. The only sane thing he did was decide he wanted the death penalty. 

I really like the scene with Green and the author. The first time I watched it I was nervous. I really thought that would come back and bite Green and the prosecution in the butt. I'm glad it didn't. It was a really great scene. Very unusual for Law & Order. Jesse L. Martin did a great job.

[Xeliou66]

I really can’t stand Melnick, I just watched Open Season again and this episode really pisses me off with how Melnick defies a judge’s order and her actions result in someone getting killed and she shows no remorse for her actions and instead acts like a self righteous twat the entire time. I have no idea why Jack went to bat for her, he shouldn’t have, she should’ve been disbarred for her actions, no idea how she kept her law license after this debacle. It’s why I didn’t feel any sympathy for Melnick when she got shot, she was so damn smug and unlikable. I wish Jack had just let her face the consequences of her actions instead of going to bat for her. That episode pisses me off because Melnick is so irritating.

Asterisk was on next, this is a great episode, really good investigative and legal stuff. I liked Briscoe/Green’s investigation into the case and zeroing in on Seleeby as the suspect. Serena was whiny as usual I thought, she seemed to imply that Jack was behaving unethically when he was doing no such thing, I thought Judge Bradley’s ruling barring the prosecution from presenting motive evidence was iffy, who’s to say that blackmail over the steroids weren’t a factor in the motive? Jack’s closing argument was good. Skoda was strong as usual. Arthur was right that Serena was out of touch with pro sports and hadn’t been in a locker room. Serena was so often whiny and irritating. I think the jury had to be suspicious that Seleeby didn’t testify, he didn’t because the defense knew if he could, the prosecution could bring up his being blackmailed over his sexuality to impeach his credibility. This is an excellent episode. 

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I really can’t stand Melnick, I just watched Open Season again and this episode really pisses me off with how Melnick defies a judge’s order and her actions result in someone getting killed and she shows no remorse for her actions and instead acts like a self righteous twat the entire time. I have no idea why Jack went to bat for her, he shouldn’t have, she should’ve been disbarred for her actions, no idea how she kept her law license after this debacle. It’s why I didn’t feel any sympathy for Melnick when she got shot, she was so damn smug and unlikable. I wish Jack had just let her face the consequences of her actions instead of going to bat for her. That episode pisses me off because Melnick is so irritating.

This really should have been the episode where she finally faced the consequences of her actions. She was always horrible and didn't give a crap about anything including her clients and the law because all that mattered was her thoughts and her opinions. Finally, she went too far with a client that was clearly dangerous. She should have either been murdered for disobeying the judge's order or thrown in jail. It's exactly what she deserved and fitting.

Quote

 

Asterisk was on next, this is a great episode, really good investigative and legal stuff. I liked Briscoe/Green’s investigation into the case and zeroing in on Seleeby as the suspect. Serena was whiny as usual I thought, she seemed to imply that Jack was behaving unethically when he was doing no such thing, I thought Judge Bradley’s ruling barring the prosecution from presenting motive evidence was iffy, who’s to say that blackmail over the steroids weren’t a factor in the motive? Jack’s closing argument was good. Skoda was strong as usual. Arthur was right that Serena was out of touch with pro sports and hadn’t been in a locker room. Serena was so often whiny and irritating. I think the jury had to be suspicious that Seleeby didn’t testify, he didn’t because the defense knew if he could, the prosecution could bring up his being blackmailed over his sexuality to impeach his credibility. This is an excellent episode. 

 

Yeah, Serena was really whiny. I'm was surprised when she throught he would say he was gay next time. Ah, no he's not Serena. I sometimes wonder what world she grew up in. I guess I shouldn't be surprised she's defending a murderer. She loves to do that. He killed someone. As for her 'tude towards Jack. He had to come up with something since they couldn't use the real reason. I love Jack's closing statement which is very true. He cheated at everything and always got a pass for everything because he could play ball. Stereoids is illegal. I think the judge's ruling was correct unfortunately there was no other way to find out the information. I love Lennie and Green investigationing plus Van Buren's comment about how they were treating Seleeby differently and how Lennie wanted him to sign his rookie card. 

[Xeliou66]

14 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

This really should have been the episode where she finally faced the consequences of her actions. She was always horrible and didn't give a crap about anything including her clients and the law because all that mattered was her thoughts and her opinions. Finally, she went too far with a client that was clearly dangerous. She should have either been murdered for disobeying the judge's order or thrown in jail. It's exactly what she deserved and fitting.

Yeah, Serena was really whiny. I'm was surprised when she throught he would say he was gay next time. Ah, no he's not Serena. I sometimes wonder what world she grew up in. I guess I shouldn't be surprised she's defending a murderer. She loves to do that. He killed someone. As for her 'tude towards Jack. He had to come up with something since they couldn't use the real reason. I love Jack's closing statement which is very true. He cheated at everything and always got a pass for everything because he could play ball. Stereoids is illegal. I think the judge's ruling was correct unfortunately there was no other way to find out the information. I love Lennie and Green investigationing plus Van Buren's comment about how they were treating Seleeby differently and how Lennie wanted him to sign his rookie card. 

Melnick was always unpleasant and willing to put her own agenda ahead of her clients, but she was downright unethical in this episode and she didn’t even care. Jack shouldn’t have rescued her.

In Asterisk, I thought Judge Bradley was probably right to bar the prosecution from using the evidence about Seleeby being blackmailed over his sexuality, but I wasn’t sure about him barring the prosecution from using the witness who sold steroids, because who’s to say the victim wasn’t blackmailing Seleeby over being on steroids as well as being gay? Jack didn’t do anything unethical but Serena had a stick up her ass anyway. Jack’s closing was good and I liked how he pointed out that just because they couldn’t say for sure what the motive was didn’t mean the defendant didn’t have one, and that cheating shouldn’t be a defense to murder. Skoda’s examination and testimony were good as well. Serena had a stick up her ass with Arthur as well - Serena didn’t seem to realize the stigma that comes with being gay for male athletes, particularly in certain sports - this episode aired 20 years ago and even today there are still no openly gay MLB players. It’s an unfortunate stigma but it’s a fact, and Arthur was right that she had never been in a locker room. Serena also gave him attitude when he told her and Jack to offer the defense a deal and Serena asked if pro players got special treatment and Arthur replied the jury gave them special treatment and he could give her Marcia Clark’s phone number if she wanted a second opinion. The case was really interesting, and the investigation by Briscoe/Green was really good, I liked Briscoe’s comment that Seleeby’s rookie card was a business investment. I also liked Rodgers in the morgue demonstrating how she knew the killer was left handed.

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Melnick was always unpleasant and willing to put her own agenda ahead of her clients, but she was downright unethical in this episode and she didn’t even care. Jack shouldn’t have rescued her.

In Asterisk, I thought Judge Bradley was probably right to bar the prosecution from using the evidence about Seleeby being blackmailed over his sexuality, but I wasn’t sure about him barring the prosecution from using the witness who sold steroids, because who’s to say the victim wasn’t blackmailing Seleeby over being on steroids as well as being gay? 

Oh, good point we don't know what he was being blackmailed over. Stereoids would get him thrown out of the league. I forgot we don't know what it was.

Edited May 16, 2023 by andromeda331

[Xeliou66]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Oh, good point we don't know what he was being blackmailed over. Stereoids would get him thrown out of the league. I forgot we don't know what it was.

The defense said he was being blackmailed over being gay, but there’s no way to prove that was the only thing the victim was blackmailing him over - it could’ve started with blackmail over steroids.

[Xeliou66]

Just watched Kid Pro Quo, this is one of my favorites from season 13. Really great courtroom scenes with Jack facing off against Rothenberg and an interesting plot about the private school and how the elites were doing each other favors to get their kids in, very realistic unfortunately, as Arthur said at the end cash trumps merit every time. Briscoe/Green were great as well, they had a lot of good lines and a good investigation. It was odd that Van Buren wasn’t in it at all. It’s a really good case with interesting suspects and very strong trial scenes. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Just watched Kid Pro Quo, this is one of my favorites from season 13. Really great courtroom scenes with Jack facing off against Rothenberg and an interesting plot about the private school and how the elites were doing each other favors to get their kids in, very realistic unfortunately, as Arthur said at the end cash trumps merit every time. Briscoe/Green were great as well, they had a lot of good lines and a good investigation. It was odd that Van Buren wasn’t in it at all. It’s a really good case with interesting suspects and very strong trial scenes. 

Yeah, Arthur is sadly right and still right to this day. I loved Jack taking down the snobby headmaster who thought he just like the elites. They clearly viewed him the same way he viewed the victim. He was a means to get their kids into the school and that was it. If they had saw him the same he wouldn't have needed to make the deal with producer of porn to pay for his own apartment. Yet he didn't see it until Jack pointed out to him.

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah, Arthur is sadly right and still right to this day. I loved Jack taking down the snobby headmaster who thought he just like the elites. They clearly viewed him the same way he viewed the victim. He was a means to get their kids into the school and that was it. If they had saw him the same he wouldn't have needed to make the deal with producer of porn to pay for his own apartment. Yet he didn't see it until Jack pointed out to him.

Yeah the headmaster was murderous scum, and I liked how Jack got him to show his anger during his cross, he clearly had a lot of pent up rage. The trial scenes were all really good, I liked how we saw all of the evidence presented and I was glad the jury convicted. Arthur is right that cash usually trumps merit, always has been true unfortunately. I loved the Briscoe/Green investigation as usual, they interviewed some colorful suspects and had good lines, I liked how they got to the bottom of the case. Like I posted on the quotes thread I liked the scene with Rodgers in the morgue and it was funny when Lennie said the crime scene guys all think they’re cops, that was likely a dig at the CSI shows which show the crime scene people doing police detectives duties. There were a lot of great lines in the episode. It’s one of my top 3 episodes of season 13, along with Asterisk and Chosen. 

[andromeda331]

On 6/16/2023 at 7:56 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah the headmaster was murderous scum, and I liked how Jack got him to show his anger during his cross, he clearly had a lot of pent up rage. The trial scenes were all really good, I liked how we saw all of the evidence presented and I was glad the jury convicted. Arthur is right that cash usually trumps merit, always has been true unfortunately. I loved the Briscoe/Green investigation as usual, they interviewed some colorful suspects and had good lines, I liked how they got to the bottom of the case. Like I posted on the quotes thread I liked the scene with Rodgers in the morgue and it was funny when Lennie said the crime scene guys all think they’re cops, that was likely a dig at the CSI shows which show the crime scene people doing police detectives duties. There were a lot of great lines in the episode. It’s one of my top 3 episodes of season 13, along with Asterisk and Chosen. 

I loved the dig at CSI. It was a good one. I agree those three are the best of season 13.

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I loved the dig at CSI. It was a good one. I agree those three are the best of season 13.

Kid Pro Quo is just a classic L&O episode - great investigation and trial, interesting plot, lots of colorful suspects and good lines. Briscoe/Green were at their finest in this episode. 

[Xeliou66]

I’m watching the start of season 13 today - I like how Arthur was introduced, he fit in pretty smoothly from the start, and I like how he brought a colorful personality and authority back to the DA role, Nora usually just couldn’t pull it off a lot of the time. Serena seemed to dislike Arthur from the start just based off of their differing views, while Arthur and Jack got along pretty well.

True Crime is a good episode, and I liked the ending twist that Travis had killed his old bandmate as well, I didn’t see that coming. I liked how they built the case against Travis, Mike Foster was irritating and I liked when Jack told him the world was a better place since he turned in his badge. I was puzzled as to why Lennie was so defensive of Foster, they didn’t even work closely together so I didn’t get why Lennie was bent out of shape about the DAs pressuring Foster, and I thought it was a good idea by Arthur to go to the press to force Foster’s hand.

Tragedy on Rye, the next episode, is the weakest of season 13 IMO, just because the ending felt like it was pulled out of thin air - it made all of the characters and especially the defense lawyer look totally incompetent that they didn’t realize who the actual killer was, and really, all they had was phone records pointing to the culprit’s guilt? There could’ve been many reasons the guy stopped calling the victim, and how convenient was it that the actual killer still had the murder weapon?! Really stupid ending that felt like the writers just pulled something out of their ass for shock value, and to make Serena look good and Branch look bad. Only part I like of this episode is Arthur and Anita’s conversation, I always like when the DA interacts with one of the cops, it’s very rare. Other than that this episode is a huge clunker.

The Ring is on now, this episode is most notable for how it incorporates 9/11 directly into the plot with the victim having been assumed to have died in the attack when she was actually killed before. 

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’m watching the start of season 13 today - I like how Arthur was introduced, he fit in pretty smoothly from the start, and I like how he brought a colorful personality and authority back to the DA role, Nora usually just couldn’t pull it off a lot of the time. Serena seemed to dislike Arthur from the start just based off of their differing views, while Arthur and Jack got along pretty well.

True Crime is a good episode, and I liked the ending twist that Travis had killed his old bandmate as well, I didn’t see that coming. I liked how they built the case against Travis, Mike Foster was irritating and I liked when Jack told him the world was a better place since he turned in his badge. I was puzzled as to why Lennie was so defensive of Foster, they didn’t even work closely together so I didn’t get why Lennie was bent out of shape about the DAs pressuring Foster, and I thought it was a good idea by Arthur to go to the press to force Foster’s hand.

This was a great episode. I didn't think it was the old bandmate either. I like how they didn't figure it out until the realization about the guitar. I didn't like Mike Foster either or Lennie defending him. He was slimy and breaking the law. I was suspicious of him from the beginning but didn't realize just how much he was lying. 

 

Quote

Tragedy on Rye, the next episode, is the weakest of season 13 IMO, just because the ending felt like it was pulled out of thin air - it made all of the characters and especially the defense lawyer look totally incompetent that they didn’t realize who the actual killer was, and really, all they had was phone records pointing to the culprit’s guilt? There could’ve been many reasons the guy stopped calling the victim, and how convenient was it that the actual killer still had the murder weapon?! Really stupid ending that felt like the writers just pulled something out of their ass for shock value, and to make Serena look good and Branch look bad. Only part I like of this episode is Arthur and Anita’s conversation, I always like when the DA interacts with one of the cops, it’s very rare. Other than that this episode is a huge clunker.

Yeah, this wasn't a very good episode. The ending was stupid and so was the defense lawyer. The phone call proved nothing. I do like Arthur and Anita talking too. That was always great.

 

Quote

The Ring is on now, this episode is most notable for how it incorporates 9/11 directly into the plot with the victim having been assumed to have died in the attack when she was actually killed before. 

This was a very good episode. I like how no one realized they were on the wrong trail until Serena realized the purse was an evening bag. The fiance was a piece of work. He killed her, blamed it on 9/11, accepted the money and lied about donating it. His current finacee really dodged a bullet.

 

 

[Xeliou66]

55 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

This was a great episode. I didn't think it was the old bandmate either. I like how they didn't figure it out until the realization about the guitar. I didn't like Mike Foster either or Lennie defending him. He was slimy and breaking the law. I was suspicious of him from the beginning but didn't realize just how much he was lying. 

 

Yeah, this wasn't a very good episode. The ending was stupid and so was the defense lawyer. The phone call proved nothing. I do like Arthur and Anita talking too. That was always great.

 

This was a very good episode. I like how no one realized they were on the wrong trail until Serena realized the purse was an evening bag. The fiance was a piece of work. He killed her, blamed it on 9/11, accepted the money and lied about donating it. His current finacee really dodged a bullet.

 

 

I just didn’t really get why Lennie was so defensive of Foster, it wasn’t like they were close or anything, they had only worked together a couple of times. Foster was slimy and self serving, and I thought Arthur’s idea to go to the press to force his hand was smart. It’s a good episode, I liked the investigation into everything and it was a great ending twist that Travis had killed Shane as well, and the lawyer basically had to drag him out of the room in order to prevent him from confessing to that murder as well. It’s a really good one.

Tragedy on Rye was just a clunker, as you said the phone call didn’t prove anything and they were beyond lucky the murderer kept the weapon in his apartment because if he had just ditched it they never would’ve been able to charge him or even know who really did it. The writers just pulled something out of their ass at the end, and it seemed like they were trying to make Arthur look overly harsh while trying to make Serena look good. One of the few examples of just a poor plot that didn’t make sense on L&O - in fact it’s one of my all time least favorite episodes, really the only thing worth watching in it is the Arthur/Anita meeting.

I like The Ring as well, sometimes an episode with a surprise killer at the very end  annoys me, but it was pulled off really well here, the fiancé appeared to be likable and sympathetic, when actually he was a murderous scumbag, and he almost succeeded in pinning his crime on the guy his victim was cheating on him with. It was a good plot to have a murderer use the events of 9/11 to cover up his crime. It was one of Serena’s better episodes and I liked how she noticed that the killer was lying. I also liked the opening of the store owner chasing the young shoplifters out of his store and onto the lot where the victim was found.

Season 13 isn’t discussed a whole lot it seems but it has some really strong episodes, Tragedy on Rye is really the only real stinker of the bunch. I see Chosen is going to air in about an hour, that might be my favorite episode of the whole season, Dworkin is awesome and the episode is a classic.