S01.E06: Girl Meets Popular

[purpleflowers]

Im sorry if I misunderstood what Topanga said to Riley, it just confused me.

[Fostersmom]

Maya had the meaning right in the beginning of the episode, but it certainly lost a lot in translation by the end. 

[Bill C.]

My one nitpick with this episode is that I wish there had been a little more lead-in to Topanga's crisis of conscience (I think this is the first episode where they've explicitly said she is a lawyer).  That said, the rest of it--if still restricted by the microcosmic feel of things--was definitely the strongest overall episode so far, with perhaps one hitch:

 

Random thought, I been thicking about this plot point now for a couple of days. Did they get the meaning behind Damocles wrong?

 

I don't think so, but I'm puzzled by the...drift?...away from it-as-point Riley got by the end, and the simultaneous drift towards it Topanga got.  That was a little odd.

[Kromm]

I think the bigger question is why Riley's life lesson has to be imparted via a school event.  There were plenty of other ways to write Riley learning a life lesson that did not include an interschool spelling bee held by the one teacher the school employs.  Cory wouldn't have a job in real life if he were continually dealing with his daughter's personal problems on class time.

For me the crux is that you don't NEED Corey to deliver the final piece of the lesson.

 

You DO need him to set the life lesson up.  But what a better written sitcom would do is have Riley realize (and comment on) the connection to the lesson all on her own.  

 

You can then, if you want, put a "button" on it (look the term up relative to TV if you don't know it) in a subsequent wrap up scene where she goes BACK to Corey and informs him about the lesson she's learned.  Yes it takes an extra 90 seconds or so of screentime to do it this way (and you only have like 22 minutes in total), but that formula exists for a reason--it's less heavyhanded and less smug to have the student inform the master of the lesson learned instead of have the master hover over the student pounding it in.

[wagthedog]

They could've confronted her right before the spelling bee  or at any other time. That particular setting wasn't an important part of the message.

If the particular setting isn't important than what difference does it make whether it was the spelling bee setting or some other setting? There are any number of settings that would have been fine. Just as the spelling bee setting was fine. Could they have used it as an opportunity to introduce a new character or something? Probably. Was it pivotal that the scene do something other than be a lesson to Riley? Not imo. There's a difference between a scene being wrong and a scene that could have been done differently. I think this scene could have been done many different ways and could have served additional purposes. I also think it was fine as is.

 

That excuse doesn't fly when in the first episode of Boy Meets World with the same amount of time and the same lead writer established Feeney, Eric, Amy, Alan, Shawn, Morgan and Corey.

I can't honestly say that I remember in vivid detail the first few episodes of BWM, but I think there's a difference between having an entirely clean slate where you're introducing brand new characters to basically a single type of audience and a slate that's already got some characters and an audience that now needs to be combined with brand new characters and a brand new audience. The show runners and the actors all made it clear that they were nervous about the re-boot, about how to do the old material justice without simply duplicating it. I think the first GMW episode demonstrated pretty clearly that no one was quite sure how to handle it  The heavy-handed, unnecessary use of "world" and the unsure usage of many of the characters. Now, in the sixth episode, the improvement is noticeable. I don't think it's an excuse to recognize there are specific challenge to re-booting a beloved show. How often does a reboot even remotely work? I'd say this one is starting to show signs of clicking.

 

One thing I do remember from early on in BMW is that some plans for characters changed so the establishment that is said to have occurred early in BMW isn't quite as clean as might be remembered. Topanga was not originally expected to play the pivotal role she ended up playing. She was initially a guest star. And when her role expanded as the seasons progressed they actually gave her a bit of re-write in making her far less hippie-dippy. Morgan disappeared for extended periods of time and never really played much of a role in the show.

 

Anyway, to each his/her own. I think the show is making strides. As a former BMW watcher, I'm not really the intended audience so I'm not especially bothered by the things that don't suit me. I assume they do suit the intended audience, just as BMW suited me back in the day.

Edited August 11, 2014 by wagthedog

[Kromm]

If the particular setting isn't important than what difference does it make whether it was the spelling bee setting or some other setting? There are any number of settings that would have been fine. Just as the spelling bee setting was fine. Could they have used it as an opportunity to introduce a new character or something? Probably. Was it pivotal that the scene do something other than be a lesson to Riley? Not imo. There's a difference between a scene being wrong and a scene that could have been done differently. I think this scene could have been done many different ways and could have served additional purposes. I also think it was fine as is.

Someone who's basically nothing but an extra, monitoring spelling bees isn't really a character that needs introducing  The context makes the person's identity apparent.  Corey and a few other extras playing teachers would have logically formed an audience for the spelling bee--that would make sense, as would having Corey be there AS a parent, with an audience of parents (actually that one is even better).  Who again, don't need to be introduced--a group of adults to one side staring at a bunch of kids (or even better, move the setting to an auditorium and have the adults seated) is self-apparent and helps reinforce the sense of this being a real school rather than some Disney fever dream.  

 

The problem again is the sense of minimalism the show has.  It goes beyond being cheap to being absurd.  An auditorium set is not that expensive to borrow to shoot on.  A handful of extras seeming to form the first row or two of audience in a narrow shot is not that expensive. You do it because it makes a show look less cheap and a hair more "real", not because you have to.  This show doesn't seem to care about stuff like that at all.

 

You can still have Corey do many of the same things with having him be a parent watching the Bee (or heaven forbid, since she never seems to be at work anyway, Topanga).  You could change things just enough by instead of having Riley have to spell a Japanese word that Corey shoehorns into things, she's given a series of words that (humorously) come off as accusations to her of her acting fake. In other words play it light and as straight up comedy, with Riley herself crumbling under her own sense of feeling like a phony and that coming out during the Spelling Bee.  Mission accomplished without the lame formula of Corey leading everything at that school, and him pushing his kid's life lessons onto everyone.  It's a traditional sitcom thing for characters to kind of explode under the weight of their own revelations, and while it's still a contrivance it's a bit less painful than watching Corey hammer everything home instead.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Kromm

[SlothLoveChunk]

Okay, I get that Rowan was cast because she looks a lot like Corey. But I can't get over her lisp. It's oh-so-slight, but it drives me crazy. Also, she's not a very good actress and there's probably a ton of kids they could have cast that wouldn't irritate me as much as Rowan.

However, I was thoroughly pleased with the 90's flashbacks in this episode and finally seeing the "real" Topanga.

[Oscirus]

If the particular setting isn't important than what difference does it make whether it was the spelling bee setting or some other setting? There are any number of settings that would have been fine. Just as the spelling bee setting was fine

 

Ignoring the fact that there was no buildup to that scene and that Corey being the moderator and the scene taking place in Corey's classroom was enough to pull people out of that scene, there was also the message that it sent.  Basically, Riley quit an academic competition because that wasn't her image. Never mind the hard work the other guys put into the competition, at least Riley found the real her. Good message for the kiddies.

 

I can't honestly say that I remember in vivid detail the first few episodes of BWM, but I think there's a difference between having an entirely clean slate where you're introducing brand new characters to basically a single type of audience and a slate that's already got some characters and an audience that now needs to be combined with brand new characters and a brand new audience

 

 

This is Riley's story, not Corey's story so they basically do have a clean slate. This isn't supposed to be a reboot, it's supposed to be a spinoff with a few winks to the parents  for nostalgia's sake. If anything, I'd argue that six episodes in, this show hasn't lived up to the promise that the first episode set. This is Riley's show. Yet  the show leans heavily on Corey.

 

One thing I do remember from early on in BMW is that some plans for characters changed so the establishment that is said to have occurred early in BMW isn't quite as clean as might be remembered. Topanga was not originally expected to play the pivotal role she ended up playing. She was initially a guest star. And when her role expanded as the seasons progressed they actually gave her a bit of re-write in making her far less hippie-dippy. Morgan disappeared for extended periods of time and never really played much of a role in the show

 

Another great thing the show did was introduce, revamp and remove characters from the show depending on their importance to Corey. Topanga got older and grew out of her hippie phase it's what kids do. Once she grew out of it, she became more attractive to Corey. Morgan disappeared at times because as a little sister there wasn't really anyway that a little sister was going to fit into Corey's life.

 

The other noticeable problem is one of it's hugest strengths, Maya. The actress kills it, however she tends to dominate the show to the point that at times, Riley seems like a supporting character in her own show.

[ladyrott]

I keep getting confused by Maya and Riley's standing in the school.  I definitely got the feeling that Maya was "popular" which (from what I remember) by school rules, means her best friend is popular.  Riley also had a starring role in the school play last week (which didn't jive with me because she seemed the type who would shy away from the spotlight) and the whole school seemed to get into it when Maya started catcalling from the audience, which also led me to believe she was popular.  And now this week, Riley is sweating being popular and Maya doesn't care (which jives with her actually BEING popular). 

[kia112]

The only thing this episode suceeded in doing was making me pull out my BMW DVDs.  I'm on season 3.

[WildFlower87]

This episode scored 2.4 million viewers. 

[Maximum Taco]

Random thought, I been thicking about this plot point now for a couple of days. Did they get the meaning behind Damocles wrong?

 

They did.

 

The Sword of Damocles is supposed to illustrate that power/fortune and danger/anxiety frequently walk hand in hand, or as the immortal Shakespeare wrote "Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown." Damocles wants to be king but doesn't realize that those in power are also those closest to danger until he sits the throne and feels the constant threat of the sword about to split his skull. It's very similar to the Iron Throne in Game of Thrones, it's a super dangerous uncomfortable chair made of swords because being king is supposed to be a dangerous, uncomfortable job. Riley was never in any real danger, and didn't really have any real power in this episode. If anything the nerds had power over her as they were able to change her entire persona overnight.

 

Cory and Maya try to illustrate it as a sort of "be careful what you wish for" tale instead. This can also work, but even then it doesn't gell with what happens in the episode. Damocles actually got what he asked for in his tale: Dionysius II vacated the throne and gave Damocles exactly what he was seeking. Damocles simply did not consider the downsides to power. Riley, on the other hand, ended up in a very "corrupted wish" or "bait and switch" scenario, she wished to be popular, and ended up popular... with 5 people largely seen as outcasts. That's not at all what she wanted, what she wanted was to be popular with the cool kids.

 

And then it turned into a "be true to yourself" moral, which has nothing at all to do with Damocles. Damocles was true to himself, he never changed who he was, he just didn't consider the downsides to power. 

 

A better way to illustrate the Sword of Damocles would have been to have Riley get in with the cool kids, and then find out that there are downsides to being one of them. An easy way to do this would be to make the cool kids ostracize or even bully her old friends ("Cool kids only hang out with other cool kids, so being cool means you can't hang out with your uncool former friends") or make her cut class and put her grades in danger ("It's cool to rebel, so being cool means you cut class") or something else along those lines.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[JellyFishQueen]

You know what kind of irked me about this ep? The whole fake nerd girl thing vibe I got from this show. Riley wasn't a true nerd, nor was what she was doing was real therefore we should publicly shame her. I don't know I am biased from the start since I hate the whole fake nerd girl theory.

[Kromm]

You know what kind of irked me about this ep? The whole fake nerd girl thing vibe I got from this show. Riley wasn't a true nerd, nor was what she was doing was real therefore we should publicly shame her. I don't know I am biased from the start since I hate the whole fake nerd girl theory.

Vibe?  I thought it being fake was made about as overt as possible, not just implied.

 

if the public shaming is the problem, I don't think the wrongness of that has much to do specifically with the nerd aspect, but rather that any public shaming of a 12 year old girl is probably wrong, regardless of the circumstance.

[JellyFishQueen]

Vibe?  I thought it being fake was made about as overt as possible, not just implied.

 

if the public shaming is the problem, I don't think the wrongness of that has much to do specifically with the nerd aspect, but rather that any public shaming of a 12 year old girl is probably wrong, regardless of the circumstance.

 

I  agree--You make a good point how pulic shamming is wrong espicalley to supposly bad self esteem Riley as the writters want ot imply.This is going to be biased on my part based on personal history but the whole shamming felt like an example of the worst part of hipster and nerd culture. To me it felt like this girl is not legit, and not real and being fake about her interest. Hence the fake nerd girl myth, people on messge boards when have this discussion will cliam girls will do this for attention. And this is what basically Riley choiced to do to gather attention from her peers. I wish they treated her interest in Japanese fashion as phase then claiming she being fake.

[Kromm]

I  agree--You make a good point how pulic shamming is wrong espicalley to supposly bad self esteem Riley as the writters want ot imply.This is going to be biased on my part based on personal history but the whole shamming felt like an example of the worst part of hipster and nerd culture. To me it felt like this girl is not legit, and not real and being fake about her interest. Hence the fake nerd girl myth, people on messge boards when have this discussion will cliam girls will do this for attention. And this is what basically Riley choiced to do to gather attention from her peers. I wish they treated her interest in Japanese fashion as phase then claiming she being fake.

The thing is that sitcoms in general, and in an even more magnified way DisneyComs, tend to be lands with no consequence.  They can and do show friends and parents reacting in over the top ways to something like this, because it will all be reset by the next episode.  I mean if there was even a threadbare bit of reality, the very act of dressing up like that in the first place would have caused plenty of her classmates to mock her, but since this particular episode wasn't slated to be about her being embarrassed, they just ignored that.  Not that they really have much opportunity in a 22 minute show for actual continuity, but I'm just saying that's the lens we have to examine the show through--a constant series of mini-resets (some stuff getting reset, some not, depending on which pieces they need).

[tami]

was looking forward to this episode and was personally let down. everything was pointless, was is supposed to feel bad for that old lady? all in all this episode sucked.