Season 20: Say It Ain’t The End! (Spoiler Alert! It's Not)

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah, it was a great finale. Great story, great investigation, and Van Buren was in remission.

Agreed - it was such a good way to end Van Buren’s story and end the first 20 seasons of L&O. I loved seeing everyone show up to support Anita at the end, she was such an awesome character, it was a nice gesture by Lupo to arrange the party for her, Lupo always had a really good relationship with Van Buren. Nice seeing ME Rodgers attend the party as well as all of the main characters. And it was great having Skoda in the episode assisting with building a profile. And it was a strong case, I usually like the occasional “ticking clock” episode and this was well done, and of course Jack going at the bureaucrat was classic. 

[andromeda331]

15 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed - it was such a good way to end Van Buren’s story and end the first 20 seasons of L&O. I loved seeing everyone show up to support Anita at the end, she was such an awesome character, it was a nice gesture by Lupo to arrange the party for her, Lupo always had a really good relationship with Van Buren. Nice seeing ME Rodgers attend the party as well as all of the main characters. And it was great having Skoda in the episode assisting with building a profile. And it was a strong case, I usually like the occasional “ticking clock” episode and this was well done, and of course Jack going at the bureaucrat was classic. 

I liked the party and that Rodgers went too. It was always great to see her outside of the morgue. I'm glad we got one last Jack going at someone. It was great to see Skoda one last time. 

[Xeliou66]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I liked the party and that Rodgers went too. It was always great to see her outside of the morgue. I'm glad we got one last Jack going at someone. It was great to see Skoda one last time. 

Yeah I love Rodgers, I wish the revival would bring her back or introduce a new recurring ME, they’ve visited the ME a few times but haven’t introduced a recurring character. Same with a psych expert - the recurring characters add so much to the show - that’s why it was awesome we got to see Skoda and Rodgers in this episode. I love seeing Jack’s passion in dealing with cases - he became more laid back when he became DA which is understandable, he’s taken on the Adam Schiff role of being a wise old lawyer who provides advice and sometimes orders to his prosecutors, but he definitely still has a passion, and it was awesome to see him tear into that bureaucrat. The party for Van Buren was a nice way to end the series and a nice gesture by Lupo - as I’ve said before I think Van Buren had the best relationship to Lupo out of any of her detectives.

[TakomaSnark]

Just watched 'Fed' again. A bit of a kitchen sink investigation but the episode is worth it for the closing scene with Van Buren finally letting go of her grief and fear at home.

[Xeliou66]

17 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

Just watched 'Fed' again. A bit of a kitchen sink investigation but the episode is worth it for the closing scene with Van Buren finally letting go of her grief and fear at home.

I think Fed is a great episode. I see what you are saying about the case having a lot thrown in it with multiple layers with corruption and an affair but I liked it, it had good detective stuff and legal stuff and had good twists. I would’ve liked to have known what sentences the perps got and how involved was the organization’s leader, the one who was having the affair with Courtney, the other higher up, I know Courtney ordered her assistant to get incriminating evidence from the victim’s house and that Arturo killed the victim on her instructions, and I know the head guy didn’t want the scandal becoming public, but which one gave the order to commit murder or did they come up with the plan together? I guess they were equally complicit and came up with the plan together, but the episode could’ve been a little clearer on that and I would’ve liked to know what sentence each of the 4 perps got. I enjoyed all of the interactions between the police and DAs, especially the ending scene between Jack and Anita. I also liked the meeting where all of the people started yelling at Jack and back at the office he said he felt like a corn cob in a pig sty, that line made me laugh. 
And while I never was a Rey Curtis fan, I did like that he made a cameo just to give closure to the character, it was nicely done and I liked that Rey mentioned he kept in touch with Lennie for the rest of Lennie’s life.

[andromeda331]

13 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I think Fed is a great episode. I see what you are saying about the case having a lot thrown in it with multiple layers with corruption and an affair but I liked it, it had good detective stuff and legal stuff and had good twists. I would’ve liked to have known what sentences the perps got and how involved was the organization’s leader, the one who was having the affair with Courtney, the other higher up, I know Courtney ordered her assistant to get incriminating evidence from the victim’s house and that Arturo killed the victim on her instructions, and I know the head guy didn’t want the scandal becoming public, but which one gave the order to commit murder or did they come up with the plan together? I guess they were equally complicit and came up with the plan together, but the episode could’ve been a little clearer on that and I would’ve liked to know what sentence each of the 4 perps got. I enjoyed all of the interactions between the police and DAs, especially the ending scene between Jack and Anita. I also liked the meeting where all of the people started yelling at Jack and back at the office he said he felt like a corn cob in a pig sty, that line made me laugh. 
And while I never was a Rey Curtis fan, I did like that he made a cameo just to give closure to the character, it was nicely done and I liked that Rey mentioned he kept in touch with Lennie for the rest of Lennie’s life.

It's a good episode. I would have like to know what the sentences were too.

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It's a good episode. I would have like to know what the sentences were too.

Yeah, Jack said at the end all of them were pleading guilty but I would’ve liked to know the sentences for each of the 4. It was a really nice scene between Jack and Anita at the end where Jack came to her office to clear the air between them, I always liked their scenes. Anita was also good when she told the people about to riot to get out of their way when they were arresting the anti government guy. It was nice that they used Anita more in season 20, I guess because the actress was planning to leave at the end of the season. I liked the case a lot in this one and how it had a lot of twists and several layers, somewhat complex but overall a good plot. I loved the scene at the start when ME Rodgers swatted Lupo’s hand away when Lupo wanted to take a sample of the stuff in the victim’s hair that turned out to come from the abandoned factory where he was killed, with Rodgers telling Lupo “if you want to switch jobs let me know” - Rodgers had some funny scenes with the detectives. Fed is one of my favorites from season 20 actually.

[andromeda331]

On 9/21/2023 at 9:49 AM, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah, Jack said at the end all of them were pleading guilty but I would’ve liked to know the sentences for each of the 4. It was a really nice scene between Jack and Anita at the end where Jack came to her office to clear the air between them, I always liked their scenes. Anita was also good when she told the people about to riot to get out of their way when they were arresting the anti government guy. It was nice that they used Anita more in season 20, I guess because the actress was planning to leave at the end of the season. I liked the case a lot in this one and how it had a lot of twists and several layers, somewhat complex but overall a good plot. I loved the scene at the start when ME Rodgers swatted Lupo’s hand away when Lupo wanted to take a sample of the stuff in the victim’s hair that turned out to come from the abandoned factory where he was killed, with Rodgers telling Lupo “if you want to switch jobs let me know” - Rodgers had some funny scenes with the detectives. Fed is one of my favorites from season 20 actually.

Yeah it is one of the best from the season. I remember hearing that the actress who played Anita was leaving the show. It's the only thing that made me happy the series ended then. I really didn't want another new face. No matter how great it maybe. I didn't want anyone but Anita in charge. She was just so great. I like how she never never backed down when anyone tried to intimidate her or like with the possible riot. She was going to arrest the man and that was that. 

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah it is one of the best from the season. I remember hearing that the actress who played Anita was leaving the show. It's the only thing that made me happy the series ended then. I really didn't want another new face. No matter how great it maybe. I didn't want anyone but Anita in charge. She was just so great. I like how she never never backed down when anyone tried to intimidate her or like with the possible riot. She was going to arrest the man and that was that. 

I really liked how they utilized Anita more in season 20. She is such an awesome character. 
Fed is a really good episode, it had a good investigation with some interesting twists. Like I said I would’ve liked to have known the sentences for each of the people involved, but overall it’s an excellent episode. I really liked all of the interactions between the detectives and DAs. There was some funny stuff as well, ME Rodgers swatting Lupo’s hand away cracked me up. And the ending scene between Jack/Anita was great. 

[Xeliou66]

Just watched 2 really good season 20 episodes, Four Cops Shot and Brazil

Four Cops Shot in an intense episode, with the manhunt for the suspect. Anita was awesome in this episode, she was great in dealing with the upset captain and with the widow of one of the officers, and I loved her speech to Lupo and Bernard when they were hesitant to turn over the evidence of 2 of the officers using the killer as an informant because they had crossed some lines - Anita asking them that if she were to die would they turn her into a retroactive saint and tell everyone how sweet she was and telling them to get over the officers making mistakes was great. Anita was such a great squad leader and this was a good episode for her. 
I also liked the exchange between Connie and Bernard when Bernard seemed to want the case to become federal so the death penalty could be sought and Connie asked Bernard why he saved Stokes’ life if he wanted him dead and Bernard said he was a cop not an executioner and Connie replied she wasn’t an executioner either.     
It was kind of ironic that the evidence Lupo/Bernard were reluctant to turn over turned out to be the piece of evidence the DA’s needed to nail Stokes, proving his motive was over a money dispute and not keeping his mother out of jail. 
Jack was great as usual in this episode, I liked his meeting with the prosecutor who commuted Stokes’ sentence and how he dealt with the tension between the cops and his office. 

Brazil is a really good episode as well, intriguing plot about the attempted murder via poisoning of the scientist leading to the custody dispute. I liked the investigation and how they found out the ex husband got the poison and the father in law was involved as well. The twist about the grandparents faking the little girl getting lost to make the mom look irresponsible was good as well. It was an intriguing plot. Cutter did a good job in getting the ex husband/father to admit to his involvement in the attempted murder in court, it was a clever way to ensure both parties plead guilty to their role in the crime and preventing the grandpa from taking all of the blame. I liked the ending - it wasn’t a happy case and I liked how Jack told Mike and Connie that they got the right result and it was a good day’s work and Mike replied “Yeah but not a good day”. It’s a very good plot.

[Spartan Girl]

19 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I liked how Jack told Mike and Connie that they got the right result and it was a good day’s work and Mike replied “Yeah but not a good day”. It’s a very good plot.

I hated that the mother basically won when it was her selfishness that set the whole thing in motion. When your own parents are willing to frame you for being irresponsible because you hogged custody of your daughter without letting them or your ex get to see her for stupid and petty reasons, then maybe it’s time to reevaluate your life choices.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I hated that the mother basically won when it was her selfishness that set the whole thing in motion. When your own parents are willing to frame you for being irresponsible because you hogged custody of your daughter without letting them or your ex get to see her for stupid and petty reasons, then maybe it’s time to reevaluate your life choices.

I agree with what you are saying, the mom did violate the court order and as Mike pointed out at the end it was her selfishness that set the whole plot in motion. I really felt for the little girl, she had lousy family all around. 

[Xeliou66]

Since I have Peacock right now, I’ve been jumping around and watching the best episodes of each season, and I watched Doped from this season recently - I like this episode a lot - the investigation was great with how Lupo and Bernard got to the bottom of the crash, Lupo’s intuition was right that something was off. I also love the twist that the perp didn’t do it out of company loyalty, but out of greed because he wanted all of the reward money. I really hate the perp though, he was selfish scum and him acting like he just thought she would have a minor fender-bender was stupid, he should know drugging someone with propofol and spiking their drink before they got in their car could have disastrous consequences and that’s what happened, he just didn’t care what the consequences were, he wanted the victim out of the way so he could get the money and he didn’t care how. Fuck him, and the ending left something to be desired - Cutter said the deal of 20 to life would be subject to approval of the victim’s families, but we only saw the woman’s husband agree to it, nothing from his in laws who lost their kids or the guy who lost his family in the car that was crashed into. I think the perp deserved 7 consecutive life sentences for each person he killed, he should never have even had a chance at parole, and I kind of doubt all of the families affected by the crash would be satisfied. I think the DA’s should’ve left sentencing up to a judge and pushed for the maximum. The perp didn’t deserve to ever have a chance at seeing the light of day again - his greed, selfishness and callous acts killed 7 people. Fuck him. I hope the other family members showed up at every one of his parole hearings and he never got out. Or maybe he would get killed in prison. He was scum and I would’ve liked the input of everyone affected at the end before the DA’s agreed to the deal. That was the only flaw of the episode. Other than that it was great - from the investigation and Rodgers coming to Van Buren’s office with the info, to Jack forcing the big Pharma company to hand over the laptop, and Mike and Connie figuring out the actual motive.

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Since I have Peacock right now, I’ve been jumping around and watching the best episodes of each season, and I watched Doped from this season recently - I like this episode a lot - the investigation was great with how Lupo and Bernard got to the bottom of the crash, Lupo’s intuition was right that something was off. I also love the twist that the perp didn’t do it out of company loyalty, but out of greed because he wanted all of the reward money. I really hate the perp though, he was selfish scum and him acting like he just thought she would have a minor fender-bender was stupid, he should know drugging someone with propofol and spiking their drink before they got in their car could have disastrous consequences and that’s what happened, he just didn’t care what the consequences were, he wanted the victim out of the way so he could get the money and he didn’t care how. Fuck him, and the ending left something to be desired - Cutter said the deal of 20 to life would be subject to approval of the victim’s families, but we only saw the woman’s husband agree to it, nothing from his in laws who lost their kids or the guy who lost his family in the car that was crashed into. I think the perp deserved 7 consecutive life sentences for each person he killed, he should never have even had a chance at parole, and I kind of doubt all of the families affected by the crash would be satisfied. I think the DA’s should’ve left sentencing up to a judge and pushed for the maximum. The perp didn’t deserve to ever have a chance at seeing the light of day again - his greed, selfishness and callous acts killed 7 people. Fuck him. I hope the other family members showed up at every one of his parole hearings and he never got out. Or maybe he would get killed in prison. He was scum and I would’ve liked the input of everyone affected at the end before the DA’s agreed to the deal. That was the only flaw of the episode. Other than that it was great - from the investigation and Rodgers coming to Van Buren’s office with the info, to Jack forcing the big Pharma company to hand over the laptop, and Mike and Connie figuring out the actual motive.

That was a good episode but yeah he should have gotten seven life sentence.

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That was a good episode but yeah he should have gotten seven life sentence.

Absolutely. I opposed making a deal that would ever allow him a shot at parole, and I thought the ending was weirdly done with them only talking to the woman’s husband and not to anyone else. I highly doubt everyone else would be happy with the deal. I think they should’ve made no sentencing agreement and pushed for a judge to sentence him to the maximum. 
Other than that, it’s a great episode, I love the detective work of how they zeroed in on the culprit and figured out what happened. 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Absolutely. I opposed making a deal that would ever allow him a shot at parole, and I thought the ending was weirdly done with them only talking to the woman’s husband and not to anyone else. I highly doubt everyone else would be happy with the deal. I think they should’ve made no sentencing agreement and pushed for a judge to sentence him to the maximum. 
Other than that, it’s a great episode, I love the detective work of how they zeroed in on the culprit and figured out what happened. 

They really should have. I don't know why Jack didn't insist on it. It's unlike him not to given his crime.

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

They really should have. I don't know why Jack didn't insist on it. It's unlike him not to given his crime.

Jack wasn’t shown at the end either, it was just Mike and Connie who made the deal. It was kind of sloppy that they didn’t have all of the families there at the end, the way it was done just felt a bit off. Like I say I hope some of the families showed up for every one of that turd’s parole hearings and reminded them that his selfish and cold blooded acts cost 7 people including 3 children their lives. 

[Xeliou66]

The end of season 20 is on WE today -

Love Eternal is a weird but entertaining episode, the victim’s wife was a loon but it was a good twist that she didn’t do the murder, and the fact that the second husband poisoned the first husband was a good twist. It was an interesting plot of how the husbands were conspiring to hide assets from their wives and how the victim backed out and so one of the others killed him. Cutter’s cross of the murderer was very strong, as I’ve said before I have issues with Cutter but he improved quite a bit in season 20 IMO. 
Rubber Room is an awesome finale as I’ve said before - a different type of episode but it worked really well - very intense race against the clock episode. Jack’s confrontation with the bureaucrat was epic, and I love seeing Skoda help out. Lupo organizing the fundraising party for Van Buren was a nice touch, Lupo and Anita always had a strong relationship and it was nice to see all of the main characters come together to help out Anita, and it was an awesome conclusion to her story since she was leaving the show. She was a great squad leader and I liked her she got used more in season 20. Rubber Room is a great episode to close the original run of the Mothership, although it never should’ve been cancelled in favor of the much weaker LA show, it was an excellent way to close L&O’s original run.

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Rubber Room is an awesome finale as I’ve said before - a different type of episode but it worked really well - very intense race against the clock episode. Jack’s confrontation with the bureaucrat was epic, and I love seeing Skoda help out. Lupo organizing the fundraising party for Van Buren was a nice touch, Lupo and Anita always had a strong relationship and it was nice to see all of the main characters come together to help out Anita, and it was an awesome conclusion to her story since she was leaving the show. She was a great squad leader and I liked her she got used more in season 20. Rubber Room is a great episode to close the original run of the Mothership, although it never should’ve been cancelled in favor of the much weaker LA show, it was an excellent way to close L&O’s original run.

It was a great episode to end the series on. The case was great. We got to see Jack do one more great confrontion. I was surprised that it ended up being a teacher but at the same time not. He wasn't wrong teachers have to put up with so much crap anymore from school boards, horrible parents and students. Kids have so much latitude, and teachers' don't really have anymore. Schools don't have their backs because their afraid of upsetting parents. I have a lot of relatives who are teachers. Obviously what did was wrong he should have quit and got help. A lot of teachers reach their breaking point and don't do that.  

I loved Anita's ending. As much as I hated it ending I really couldn't see the show continuing with not Anita leaving Jack as the only oldest character left. But who knows I'm surprised that NCIS is still going despite almost everyone gone. 

[Xeliou66]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It was a great episode to end the series on. The case was great. We got to see Jack do one more great confrontion. I was surprised that it ended up being a teacher but at the same time not. He wasn't wrong teachers have to put up with so much crap anymore from school boards, horrible parents and students. Kids have so much latitude, and teachers' don't really have anymore. Schools don't have their backs because their afraid of upsetting parents. I have a lot of relatives who are teachers. Obviously what did was wrong he should have quit and got help. A lot of teachers reach their breaking point and don't do that.  

I loved Anita's ending. As much as I hated it ending I really couldn't see the show continuing with not Anita leaving Jack as the only oldest character left. But who knows I'm surprised that NCIS is still going despite almost everyone gone. 

Yeah it was a great case. It was a good twist that the perp was a teacher, and while the perp was a psycho, I can see why he snapped - I didn’t feel sympathy for him, but the episode did a good job of showing all of the stress teachers are under, the guy Jack confronted made valid points about the issues teachers face, but he was wrong to try to stifle their investigation given how dangerous the perp was and it was satisfying to see Jack tell him to get out of the way. 
Exits have always been a mixed bag on L&O, so it was great that Anita got such a strong one, she was awesome. It was fitting that Lupo wanted to help her out, they always had a strong relationship, and it was a really nice finish seeing all of the characters come together at the end to support Anita. It was a really great way to end the show’s original run and a great way to conclude Anita’s story. The show shouldn’t have been cancelled, but it was an awesome conclusion to the Mothership’s original run. 
Season 20 was a really good season overall - there were 2 really lousy episodes in Just a Girl In The World and Dignity, but overall there were a lot of really strong cases. 

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Season 20 was a really good season overall - there were 2 really lousy episodes in Just a Girl In The World and Dignity, but overall there were a lot of really strong cases. 

Given its plot Just a Girl in the World was immediately picked up and remade for Law & Order: UK

[Xeliou66]

On 5/13/2024 at 11:01 AM, Raja said:

Given its plot Just a Girl in the World was immediately picked up and remade for Law & Order: UK

Just a Girl In the World is a terrible episode IMO, it was so out of character and ridiculous that Lupo would go to bed with someone involved in a case who turned out to be the perp. Lupo was never one to use bad judgment like that, it was highly OOC. Plus the lab guy planting evidence to help build a case was a weird plot point that was glossed over - it would’ve caused a huge scandal, and people that were close with the victim wouldn’t be working on her murder case in the first place. Really glad that episode was never mentioned again and everything went back to normal with Lupo next episode, because this one was really stupid and soap opera-ish. 

[Xeliou66]

Steel Eyed Death is kind of an unusual episode and it’s one of L&O’s more gruesome and creepy cases, with the family stabbed to death and then the killer in clown makeup charging down the stairs at Bernard with an axe - that scene in particular felt really weird, but it’s a decent episode, and it was awesome to see Skoda again after 5 seasons, his last appearance had been in season 15 - Skoda is one of my favorites. I wonder if Bonnie/Amanda’s amnesia was real or not, I think it was probably real, it was just too bizarre a story for her to make up IMO, she still knew right from wrong as Skoda proved so I’m not sure if sending her to a psych facility was the right call but it looked like the judge was going to deem her unfit so making a deal was their best option. I liked the insight into Lupo we got in this episode, we first heard about his backstory back in season 18, and they expanded on it here, Lupo is one of my favorite detectives, and I liked how he handled his PTSD being brought up and I liked how despite Lupo’s past issues he was still able to be a good detective and he never used excessive force or acted inappropriately which Cutter pointed out to the jury. Lupo was a good character and I liked his partnership with Bernard.

Boy on Fire is a strong episode, with the rivalry between the charter school and the public school turning deadly. The murder was senseless, the kids were just angry over the victim being at the charter school and were jealous over him spending time with the girl and Abel was jealous over the victim mentoring his brother - Abel was a really pathetic scumbag, he should’ve been glad someone was helping his brother but instead he was offended that his brother was trying to get in to the charter school. The other killers were even worse given that they raped the girl to scare her into silence. I felt for Moses, he seemed like a good kid and I don’t know if he would be okay knowing his brother killed because he was upset over his ambition. The principal had her head up her ass regarding the situation, she just wouldn’t accept that her students did something so awful. It was an interesting plot with how the principal unintentionally tipped the perps off to rape the girl because they thought she would talk to the cops. The principal did help in the end but it was after she caused problems throughout - Jack’s final line was spot on about how they would be grading like she did if they gave her a free pass - I wonder what happened with her. Regardless I hope the four perps rotted in prison. It’s a stellar episode with an interesting plot.

[ML89]

Watching the season 20 eps alongside season 23, you see how the older teams were really cooking as opposed to this crew. It was such a shame NBC threw it out for LA, which was a mess from jump. Season 20 has some really interesting cases and they manage to finally work in the personal angle without it, for the most part, dragging down episodes. While Shaw & Riley are good, Lupo & Bernard are terrific - probably my #3 team (Logan & Briscoe 1, Green & Briscoe 2). I will give Shaw & Riley more time, since the actors seem to be gelling. Of course, Van Buren wins over Dixon, but I did like Dixon.

Meanwhile, whether you like Mike (heh) or not, he and Connie together are in another league from Price and Maroun, and by this time, it's been about the same number of years together. Much of that is the writing, but Roache and de la Garza bring a snap to their scenes that Dancy and Halvei don't have (and it isn't an accent problem on Dancy's part since Roache is British too - I remember how flabbergasted I was when I saw Roache in some BTS thing and heard it!)

McCoy wasn't in enough scenes together with the team to have any sort of rapport (why he didn't get them out of court considering their motion track record) and the jury is out on Baxter - I really wish they'd leaned into him being a bit shady because it would be more fun. Although he's kind of bizarre so there's that.

 

 

Edited July 8 by ML89
grammar

[Xeliou66]

8 minutes ago, ML89 said:

Watching the season 20 eps alongside season 23, you see how the older teams were really cooking as opposed to this crew. It was such a shame NBC threw it out for LA, which was a mess from jump. Season 20 has some really interesting cases and they manage to finally work in the personal angle without it, for the most part, dragging down episodes. While Shaw & Riley are good, Lupo & Bernard are terrific - probably my #3 team (Logan & Briscoe 1, Green & Briscoe 2). I will give Shaw & Riley more time, since the actors seem to be gelling. Of course, Van Buren wins over Dixon, but I did like Dixon.

Meanwhile, whether you like Mike (heh) or not, he and Connie together are in another league from Price and Maroun, and by this time, it's been about the same number of years together. Much of that is the writing, but Roache and de la Garza bring a snap to their scenes that Dancy and Halvei don't have (and it isn't an accent problem on Dancy's part since Roache is British too - I remember how flabbergasted I was when I saw Roache in some BTS thing and heard it!)

McCoy wasn't in enough scenes together with the team to have any sort of rapport (why he didn't get them out of court considering their motion track record) and the jury is out on Baxter - I really wish they'd leaned into him being a bit shady because it would be more fun. Although he kind of bizarre so there's that.

 

 

L&O should never have been cancelled after season 20 that’s for sure. Van Buren was leaving the show regardless after season 20, so that would’ve been a loss for the show, but they definitely could’ve survived it. The main issue with the revival isn’t the characters IMO, although Price and Maroun can be bland and I’m not a fan of Maroun in particular, it’s the writing for the legal scenes - all too often they throw in a twist that makes the DAs look unprepared/sloppy, or they are very predictable with having them lose a motion on very shaky grounds, or just something about the legal writing doesn’t click. That’s the main issue with the revival IMO - the characters are fine overall, I really like the Shaw/Riley detective pairing, Dixon was a good squad leader and while Price/Maroun lack energy much of the time I don’t hate them, although Maroun can annoy me often. But yeah the show was really clicking in season 20 - agreed that Lupo/Bernard were a very strong pairing and I love Connie, plus McCoy was younger and would’ve been in more scenes if the show had stayed on the air then, still I’m glad he came back for the revival to get it going. I really don’t like Cutter most of the time, he was an arrogant jackass. But yeah the writing was strong in season 20 and the show never should’ve been taken off the air, the writing just hasn’t been as good on the revival particularly with the legal stuff although the detective stuff is quite good now. But yeah shame on NBC for cancelling it after season 20 for the LA spinoff which was a disaster.

[TakomaSnark]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

L&O should never have been cancelled after season 20 that’s for sure. Van Buren was leaving the show regardless after season 20, so that would’ve been a loss for the show, but they definitely could’ve survived it. The main issue with the revival isn’t the characters IMO, although Price and Maroun can be bland and I’m not a fan of Maroun in particular, it’s the writing for the legal scenes - all too often they throw in a twist that makes the DAs look unprepared/sloppy, or they are very predictable with having them lose a motion on very shaky grounds, or just something about the legal writing doesn’t click. That’s the main issue with the revival IMO - the characters are fine overall, I really like the Shaw/Riley detective pairing, Dixon was a good squad leader and while Price/Maroun lack energy much of the time I don’t hate them, although Maroun can annoy me often. But yeah the show was really clicking in season 20 - agreed that Lupo/Bernard were a very strong pairing and I love Connie, plus McCoy was younger and would’ve been in more scenes if the show had stayed on the air then, still I’m glad he came back for the revival to get it going. I really don’t like Cutter most of the time, he was an arrogant jackass. But yeah the writing was strong in season 20 and the show never should’ve been taken off the air, the writing just hasn’t been as good on the revival particularly with the legal stuff although the detective stuff is quite good now. But yeah shame on NBC for cancelling it after season 20 for the LA spinoff which was a disaster.

It also bugs me in the reboot that every single case is about the 1% in some way. Can't we get victims/perps/witnesses who are regular people, like in the OG era??

Edited July 8 by TakomaSnark

[Xeliou66]

8 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

It also bugs me in the reboot that every single case is about the 1% in some way. Can't we get victims/perps/witnesses who are regular people, like in the OG era??

They have had too many cases involving the rich and famous, particularly last season. 

[Xeliou66]

The end of season 20 was on today 

Immortal is a great episode - about the pharmaceutical company using the cells in research without compensating the family - based on the true story of Henrietta Lacks and HeLa cells, with a murder added in. I loved the ending with Jack forcing the company to pay millions to the family they had exploited or else face criminal charges, that was a great moment for Jack. The murderer was a bit sympathetic, he had a right to be angry at the company for what they had done and the murder wasn’t premeditated it was just done in a moment of rage, he shouldn’t have blamed the PI for the murder though, even if the PI was a dick, the killer killed his cousin in anger and the cousin was just wanting the money from the company to help his family, he was very sympathetic as well, the killer’s sentence at the end was fair. I hope the victim’s wife and son and the rest of the relatives were able to live comfortably on the money Jack forced the company to pay them at the end. 
Cutter was such a dick though when he questioned Van Buren about her illness in court, there was no excuse for that, it wasn’t like it was necessary for him to win the case, he just wanted to score points with the jury and didn’t care about humiliating Van Buren in the process. And then he claimed he didn’t think of it beforehand, which was bullshit, he planned it he just knew Anita would object if he gave her a heads up. Cutter was just so damn unlikable much of the time, and I was thrilled Anita gave him a verbal smackdown and compared him to the pharmaceutical company, which had to sting given how outraged Cutter was at the company. Anita was right to chew him out and blow him off at the end.

Love Eternal is a weird episode but entertaining, good twist that the wife wasn’t a murderer, just kind of bonkers, and that the actual killer was the friend who killed him because he was backing out of their agreement to hide money from their wives. There were some darkly funny moments in this one with the bizarreness of the wife and the other rich snobs. Cutter’s cross of the murderer was strong, one of his best moments. The wife was crazy to try to attack the defense attorney in court, but the judge should’ve told off the defense attorney for insulting the witness, maybe he did offscreen. The ending of the wife sending the DAs diamonds made from her husband’s remains was a fitting ending to the bizarre story.

The finale Rubber Room just finished, it’s an awesome episode and a great finish to the season and Anita’s story, and it was a great series finale, although it’s no longer the series finale now. It was a perfect ending seeing everyone come together to support Anita, she was a great character and one who was loved by all of the others and it was a nice way to get everyone together. Nice that ME Rodgers and the Chief of D’s showed up at the party. It was also great seeing Jack tear into the bureaucrat who was obstructing them and make a passionate plea for the teacher’s assistance, great moment for Jack. I liked the math teacher who helped Lupo/Bernard at the end. It’s an awesome episode.

[ByTor]

On 8/7/2024 at 9:02 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Cutter was such a dick

In other news, water is wet 🤣

[peacheslatour]

I'm up to Season 20 in my re-watch and Boy on Fire is on. The one where some boys continue to beat a boy they burned. One of the boys' brothers attends a magnet school and the principal fascinated me the last time I saw it so this time I went to IMDB and damned if that wasn't Debra friggin Winger! I wouldn't have figured it was her if you gave me a million guesses.

[Xeliou66]

Season 20 has so many strong episodes, it’s on on Sundance today -

Innocence is a strong case, it’s an episode that deviated from the L&O formula a bit with the arrest starting the episode, then a quick trial, the reinvestigating and more legal proceedings. I liked how it played out and how ultimately the guy arrested at the start was guilty - Cutter’s law professor was slimy, she was giving her students incentives to tamper with witnesses and because of the pressure on them they were meddling in legal proceedings. I liked how the detectives and DAs got to the bottom of it and I liked all of the scenes between them. And while Cutter was never a favorite, his cross of the perp’s mom here was awesome - she fell right into his trap, going off on her homophobic tangent after saying her son shared her values, that was great on Cutter’s part. And his rage at the perp’s hatefulness at the end was good as well.

Four Cops Shot is an intense episode, good manhunt for the shooter. Anita was awesome here, she did great in dealing with the captain of the officers and I especially loved her speech to Lupo and Bernard when they were reluctant to hand over the officers because it would reveal 2 of them crossed some lines, Anita was great then, asking them if she died would they make her into a retroactive saint and tell everyone how perfect she was, telling them to get over the officers making some mistakes. Interestingly enough the stuff in the officers books was the final piece the DAs needed to nail the perp for murder 1, proving that the motive wasn’t the threats to arrest his mom but a dispute over money. I liked Jack saying that he didn’t go forum shopping for harsher penalties. And I liked the scene between Connie and Bernard where she asked Bernard why he saved the perp’s life if he wanted him executed and Bernard said he wasn’t the executioner and Connie said neither was she.

Brazil just finished, this is another stellar episode about the attempted murder by poisoning of the scientist, and it leading to the custody dispute and then the grandparents faking the kid going missing was a wild twist. No one was sympathetic really, the scientist who was poisoned was probably the most sympathetic of the bunch, but his wife was selfish and lousy for how she handled the custody dispute, and the 2 perps the dad and the grandfather were obviously bad as nothing justifies a murder attempt. I felt for the little girl at the end, what a screwed up family situation. I liked how the DAs addressed that at the end with Jack saying it was a good day’s work and Cutter replied “but not a good day”. Cutter did a good job again here by putting the dad on the stand and getting him to admit his guilt by using his concern for his daughter. Cutter was overall better in season 20 than he was in the previous 2 seasons. This was a good episode with good detective and legal work and some interesting twists.