All Episodes Talk: Charmed and Wiccan

[Magistar]

i was watching season 4 episode 15 I cant figure out why when after the wedding was ruined and they had to bury the lazarith demon. The demon tells the girls that cole told him to ruin the wedding. so the girls started questioning cole about what was going on.  He said, " Oh hell you already figured it out.  And then killed the demon in front of them.  They continue to walk to the Mausoleum and find a (wow a chapel just happens to be there. so, Leo suggust why not have the wedding here. My question is :  " Why did they go to the chapal anyways knowing he was using his power ?

[Kohola3]

If you try to figure out all of the continuity errors and incongruities in the scripts, your head will explode.  Just follow the suspension of disbelief rule of life when watching.  Trust me, you'll be a lot happier.

[Writing Wrongs]

He morphed into The Seer and made it look like she was behind it, didn't he? Then he left and showed up on the floor of the mausoleum and said The Seer had knocked him out.

[EarlGreyTea]

I've been re-watching the early seasons. I really can't get over how well done Charmed Again, Parts 1 and 2 were. For all that the cast were at each other's throats, I always, always bought the original three as sisters. They had such good chemistry. And Alyssa and Shannen are better actresses than they have been given credit for, because had I not known all the friction behind the scenes, I would never have known by watching them onscreen. You could say they got out their aggression in scenes where Prue and Phoebe argued, but I still always bought the sisterly bond underneath. I'll also add that even though Julian and Shannen were together, and he supposedly disliked Alyssa as a result, that never came across onscreen either in scenes with Phoebe and Cole (although Julian and Shannen had great inappropriate chemistry). There's a lot to be said for the professionalism of all three.

Anyway, back to Charmed Again. The show got so much right about how grief manifests itself differently in people. Holly was so good in portraying Piper as angry and lost. She devastated me just in how she was slowly brushing her hair before Prue's funeral.

And even though, yes, Phoebe wasn't as overtly mournful, I could also buy that she was running around and doing things to keep herself from falling apart. It made perfect sense with what we know of her character, and she had never been quite as close to Prue as Piper was.

The show had many flaws, and I stopped watching somewhere in season 5, but those early seasons were real gems. Cheesy, inconsistent, and flawed, yes. Interesting and fun, that too.

[Kohola3]

I usually have the reruns on in the background in the morning and have come to the realization that the later seasons were total garbage.  I can't even stand to have the last two seasons on anymore.  Charmed has not held up well over the years.  It's really, really bad.  Really, really, really bad.  Horrible.

[Esmeralda]

I can still do my favorite "season" - 'That Seventies Episode' through 'Murphy's Luck', most of S5 if I skip anything that has to do with Cole or Phoebe or 'Oh, My Goddess' and the last half of S7, starting with 'Show Ghouls', but the rest, as you said, for me is garbage.  But I still love finding new fanfics to read and love or re-reading ones that I still love.

[nightwing877]

I'm embarrassed by what the show turned into later on. It became a former shell of the great show it used to be. I think it is such a horrible show once you get past season 4. Sure you have some great episodes, but those are not enough to keep my interest. 

Which is why I have to separate Charmed into two show's. Season 1 - 3 or 4 and Season 5 - 8. If you told me to rank Charmed among other shows, I can't add Season 5 - 8 in the mix, otherwise Charmed ranks very low.

Now Charmed Season 1 - 3 and 4, that is a show I gladly rank in my top 10 all time best shows.  

[Esmeralda]

Yup,, that's the way I do it - the reason why I only have the S1-3 DVDs and have never had interest in the others (unlike most fans, I don't like Season Four at all - and nothing to do with Prue vs Paige except for trying to turn Paige into Phoebe V2 rather than letter her be the Only Child she shouldve been - but more the changes in Piper, Phoebe, Leo and Cole, none of which can be totally explained by Prue's death),  I count S1-3 as "Charmed" (and if S4-8 had never happened, i could've enjoyed all of them while now I can't, knowing what Piper and Phoebe will turn into, so I can't like Piper in S2 or Phoebe in S3) and still one of my Top 20 shows of all time, while I count S4-8 as the alternate-universe spin-off 'The Perils of Poor, Poor, Pitiful Piper' (and is why I'm glad Prue died or I'm sure it would've been 'The Perils of Poor, Poor Pitiful Prue' - she was headed that way at the end of S3) aka 'PhoeME and Her Fantasy Men' aka ''Two Witches Plus One Living Whitelighter' Equals the Power of Three?' where everything's changed except the name of the characters, and which doesn't even make my Top 1000.  

[Apprentice79]

3 hours ago, Esmeralda said:

Yup,, that's the way I do it - the reason why I only have the S1-3 DVDs and have never had interest in the others (unlike most fans, I don't like Season Four at all - and nothing to do with Prue vs Paige except for trying to turn Paige into Phoebe V2 rather than letter her be the Only Child she shouldve been - but more the changes in Piper, Phoebe, Leo and Cole, none of which can be totally explained by Prue's death),  I count S1-3 as "Charmed" (and if S4-8 had never happened, i could've enjoyed all of them while now I can't, knowing what Piper and Phoebe will turn into, so I can't like Piper in S2 or Phoebe in S3) and still one of my Top 20 shows of all time, while I count S4-8 as the alternate-universe spin-off 'The Perils of Poor, Poor, Pitiful Piper' (and is why I'm glad Prue died or I'm sure it would've been 'The Perils of Poor, Poor Pitiful Prue' - she was headed that way at the end of S3) aka 'PhoeME and Her Fantasy Men' aka ''Two Witches Plus One Living Whitelighter' Equals the Power of Three?' where everything's changed except the name of the characters, and which doesn't even make my Top 1000.  

Amen! I love your post. In my head, at the end of season 6, Prue, Piper and Phoebe close the door together. 

[Esmeralda]

No, I'd never want it to go that far.  I *do* like the idea of Prue, Piper and Phoebe all surviving 'All Hell Breaks Loose' and Piper having Melinda and Phoebe having Nicole during Season Four after they accidentally vanquish Cole when they take the essence of the Source out of him,  but then they all decide to give up their powers during 'Witch Way Now?' and then close the together - using their hands.  Prue I see just happy getting to play auntie to her nieces.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Esmeralda

[Esmeralda]

Not quite sure if this belongs here or elsewhere, but...it's something we had fun with at a different site and was wondering what any of you would think.

Here's the post that started it:

Quote

Something I was thinking about as I watched a Harry Potter marathon on TV.

We have eight seasons worth of material that can be altered or changed, so what if Charmed was done as a movie series like the Harry Potter ones?  If you were made producer, ;So I leave it to the Charmed Cafe Community, how would you construct the series and make them into a collection of 7 (8 if you make the last one a 2-part film) films?

This is my first time trying to plot an alternate Charmed series; I've never written a fanfiction story in my life. So baby steps. :)  See what you think:   

Not quite sure if this belongs here or elsewhere, but...it's something we had fun with at a different site and was wondering what any of you would think.

Here's the post that started it:

Quote

Something I was thinking about as I watched a Harry Potter marathon on TV.

We have eight seasons worth of material that can be altered or changed, so what if Charmed was done as a movie series like the Harry Potter ones?  If you were made producer, ;So I leave it to the Charmed Cafe Community, how would you construct the series and make them into a collection of 7 (8 if you make the last one a 2-part film) films?

This is my first time trying to plot an alternate Charmed series; I've never written a fanfiction story in my life. So baby steps. :)  See what you think:   

[EarlGreyTea]

12 hours ago, Esmeralda said:

Yup,, that's the way I do it - the reason why I only have the S1-3 DVDs and have never had interest in the others (unlike most fans, I don't like Season Four at all - and nothing to do with Prue vs Paige except for trying to turn Paige into Phoebe V2 rather than letter her be the Only Child she shouldve been - but more the changes in Piper, Phoebe, Leo and Cole, none of which can be totally explained by Prue's death),  I count S1-3 as "Charmed" (and if S4-8 had never happened, i could've enjoyed all of them while now I can't, knowing what Piper and Phoebe will turn into, so I can't like Piper in S2 or Phoebe in S3) and still one of my Top 20 shows of all time, while I count S4-8 as the alternate-universe spin-off 'The Perils of Poor, Poor, Pitiful Piper' (and is why I'm glad Prue died or I'm sure it would've been 'The Perils of Poor, Poor Pitiful Prue' - she was headed that way at the end of S3) aka 'PhoeME and Her Fantasy Men' aka ''Two Witches Plus One Living Whitelighter' Equals the Power of Three?' where everything's changed except the name of the characters, and which doesn't even make my Top 1000.  

I actually would like to see an alternate universe where Piper, Phoebe, and Cole fought demons after Prue died, without ever bringing Paige on. I really enjoyed the first few episodes of S4 where Phoebe and Cole were running after Piper, who was proactively vanquishing demons without the Power of Three. I know the entire conceit of the show is the bond between the three sisters, but I loved the Adventures of the Two Witches and the Half Demon. They were still a formidable team. And it was really amusing: Piper's one-track mind on vanquishing evil and sniping at Cole, Phoebe scurrying after her, and Cole regarding Piper as nuts, but still fighting alongside her.

[Esmeralda]

If you made that the adventures of Two Witches, a Half-Demon and a Whitelighter (including Leo in the bunch), I'd agree with you totally.  That's how I always felt that they should've continued, so that the Power of Three could truly culminate (end) with them.  I LOVE the way Leo and Cole bounced off each other as representatives of Them Up There and Them Down There during 'Charmed Again'.

[Apprentice79]

49 minutes ago, Esmeralda said:

No, I'd never want it to go that far.  I *do* like the idea of Prue, Piper and Phoebe all surviving 'All Hell Breaks Loose' and Piper having Melinda and Phoebe having Nicole during Season Four after they accidentally vanquish Cole when they take the essence of the Source out of him,  but then they all decide to give up their powers during 'Witch Way Now?' and then close the together - using their hands.  Prue I see just happy getting to play auntie to her nieces.

Six solid seasons with the original power of 3 would be the way to go, but, real life issues screwed it up. Instead, we got a dead Prue, a surly Piper, selfish Phoebe and Paige as a Phoebe clone.. Not to mention the travails of Leo...Yuck..

In my head, the sisters defeated Cole who was pure evil with Phoebe orchestrating his death as the season 3 finale . Then, Prue and Piper comfort Phoebe in the scene that we got in season 4, with Grams closing the door.

[Esmeralda]

I don't think there's enough good material for six seasons with just the originals.  No matter what they did with them, it would get boring like S5-S8 got.

 I'd prefer four with the originals and then four as a spin-off, either with their daughters (but no half-anythings and no child who has more powers than the Charmed Ones and no three daughters who can become Charmed) or one that goes back to the three 20's cousins or goes back and shows what happened between Penny, Patty, Victor and Sam...or even one that goes farther back and shows more of what happened between Melinda Warren and Matthew Tate...  I'd find any of those much more interesting than anything that happened in S5-8;

Edited October 19, 2017 by Esmeralda

[Apprentice79]

48 minutes ago, Esmeralda said:

I don't think there's enough good material for six seasons with just the originals.  No matter what they did with them, it would get boring like S5-S8 got.

 I'd prefer four with the originals and then four as a spin-off, either with their daughters (but no half-anythings and no child who has more powers than the Charmed Ones and no three daughters who can become Charmed) or one that goes back to the three 20's cousins or goes back and shows what happened between Penny, Patty, Victor and Sam...or even one that goes farther back and shows more of what happened between Melinda Warren and Matthew Tate...  I'd find any of those much more interesting than anything that happened in S5-8;

Why do you doubt that 6 seasons would be too much?  There are many stories that can be written with the originals in my opinion.  Season 2 would have Andy in it , instead of Leo. Andy and Prue would have a hard time with him adjusting to her as a witch.  This would affect his job as detective.  Phoebe goes back to school and Piper would be running Quake, P3 would not exist.  Season 3 would be about the growth of the sisters powers, we would see how powerful that the sisters were becoming.  Cole trying to separate Phoebe from her sisters. The sisters would defeat him.  Season 4 would be the aftermath of Cole getting dangerously close to destroying the power of three,  the unraveling of Phoebe, Pratt comes into their lives. Season 5 would be evil Phoebe fighting her sisters, keeping Pratt, from figuring out their secret.  Phoebe's actions as evil Phoebe would have deadly consequences  that would culminate with Piper getting kidnap by an emissary of the source. Season 6 would be about rebuilding their sisterhood, saving Piper and destroying the source. 

Throughout the 6 seasons we would meet past Warren witches and even ones from the future, the sisters' descendants. Not to mention, we would meet Gram's brother and his descendants and how they fit in with the Warren legacy. We would even meet relatives from their dad's side that are not magical.  The sisters would also interact with evil human beings. The sisters would meet men, but, they would not be the focus of the sisters' lives like Cole and Leo were. Andy would be a constant presence via Prue.  Andy's relationships with Piper and Phoebe would also be as important as his relationship with Prue.  The most important thing is that there would be no babies and talks of having babies. 

[nightwing877]

On 18/10/2017 at 10:02 PM, Esmeralda said:

Yup,, that's the way I do it - the reason why I only have the S1-3 DVDs and have never had interest in the others (unlike most fans, I don't like Season Four at all - and nothing to do with Prue vs Paige except for trying to turn Paige into Phoebe V2 rather than letter her be the Only Child she shouldve been - but more the changes in Piper, Phoebe, Leo and Cole, none of which can be totally explained by Prue's death),  I count S1-3 as "Charmed" (and if S4-8 had never happened, i could've enjoyed all of them while now I can't, knowing what Piper and Phoebe will turn into, so I can't like Piper in S2 or Phoebe in S3) and still one of my Top 20 shows of all time, while I count S4-8 as the alternate-universe spin-off 'The Perils of Poor, Poor, Pitiful Piper' (and is why I'm glad Prue died or I'm sure it would've been 'The Perils of Poor, Poor Pitiful Prue' - she was headed that way at the end of S3) aka 'PhoeME and Her Fantasy Men' aka ''Two Witches Plus One Living Whitelighter' Equals the Power of Three?' where everything's changed except the name of the characters, and which doesn't even make my Top 1000.  

AMEN. :)

I like the way you label the characters, The Perils of Poor, Poor, Pitiful Piper and PhoeME and Her Fantasy Men. That is brilliantly true. 

On 19/10/2017 at 10:19 AM, EarlGreyTea said:

I actually would like to see an alternate universe where Piper, Phoebe, and Cole fought demons after Prue died, without ever bringing Paige on. I really enjoyed the first few episodes of S4 where Phoebe and Cole were running after Piper, who was proactively vanquishing demons without the Power of Three. I know the entire conceit of the show is the bond between the three sisters, but I loved the Adventures of the Two Witches and the Half Demon. They were still a formidable team. And it was really amusing: Piper's one-track mind on vanquishing evil and sniping at Cole, Phoebe scurrying after her, and Cole regarding Piper as nuts, but still fighting alongside her.

I might have liked the show more if they went down this path. At least it would stay true to the series and canon and not complicate things with hybrids with Paige, Wyatt and Chris. Even though the series would of most likely ended after season 4. 

 

Had this happened, The Source would most likely go back into the background for good and never seen again. Why would he come after them if he got Prue killed. He has gotten his win, no need to wage war with just the surviving sisters. 

I agree I loved Charmed Again and even Hell Hath No Fury, I just didn't like the introduction of Paige being throw into it - it was so forced, with reasons we all know why. Hell Hath No Fury would of worked so much better with just Piper/Phoebe/Cole/Leo without Paige even in it. Too bad they didn't delay Paige's introduction until the third or fourth episode of season 4, and kept those early episodes with just those four, if they had to introduce Paige.

When you watch Charmed Again, the episode is fantastic. But the plot runs too quickly introducing Paige, and the new power of three. I really was unimpressed with that. I was thinking that the two hour opener when it originally aired, would only focus on mourning Prue and Paige would only be introduced in little cameo's, with that third episode going all out on her backstory and who she is.

Edited October 21, 2017 by nightwing877

[Esmeralda]

8 hours ago, nightwing877 said:

AMEN. :)

I like the way you label the characters, The Perils of Poor, Poor, Pitiful Piper and PhoeME and Her Fantasy Men. That is brilliantly true. 

I might have liked the show more if they went down this path. At least it would stay true to the series and canon and not complicate things with hybrids with Paige, Wyatt and Chris. Even though the series would of most likely ended after season 4. 

 

Had this happened, The Source would most likely go back into the background for good and never seen again. Why would he come after them if he got Prue killed. He has gotten his win, no need to wage war with just the surviving sisters. 

I agree I loved Charmed Again and even Hell Hath No Fury, I just didn't like the introduction of Paige being throw into it - it was so forced, with reasons we all know why. Hell Hath No Fury would of worked so much better with just Piper/Phoebe/Cole/Leo without Paige even in it. Too bad they didn't delay Paige's introduction until the third or fourth episode of season 4, and kept those early episodes with just those four, if they had to introduce Paige.

When you watch Charmed Again, the episode is fantastic. But the plot runs too quickly introducing Paige, and the new power of three. I really was unimpressed with that. I was thinking that the two hour opener when it originally aired, would only focus on mourning Prue and Paige would only be introduced in little camoe's, with that third episode going all out on her backstory and who she is.

 I also would've much preferred it done this way - or even putting off introducing Paige until the second half of the season, although I would've much more preferred it just Piper, Phoebe, Leo and Cole, especially if Piper was constantly trying to figure out what Prue would've done in that situation so Prue could've remained the Big Sister, Piper the Middle Sister and Phoebe the Baby.   And if without Paige we would've only gotten four seasons, that would've been just fine with me!

[andromeda331]

I love these idea. Even though I really do like Paige. At least the Paige from beginning of season four not the one that morphed into Phoebe clone. She seemed more interesting then. I loved that she worked as a social worker and wish she had stuck with it. It could have given them more magical cases. She seemed smarter then. I didn't like the way they made her into the "baby" of the family it doesn't make sense she was an only child there's no reason to shift her to the baby of the family position. When Piper and Paige argued like the Size Matters episode it made more sense Piper knew more about magic so Paige should trust her but Paige had been on her own for a long time making all her own decisions it would be hard for her to adjust to having to listen to a new sister. I think she would have made a better fit as a cousin. So many times her relationship with Piper and Paige looked more cousin like and not sister like (not that you can't be really close to your cousin like a sister) because Paige didn't grow up with them. They had different families, backgrounds and experiences it would make more sense if she was Patty's niece who came to live with them or moved to the area.   

[Esmeralda]

Except if she was a niece she couldn't have helped reconstitute the Power of Three.  It was hard enough for the fans to accept that a half-sister could.  No way they'd accepted that a cousin could - that would go too much against the show's mythology, like Grams and Patty being able to help Piper cast one in 'Forever Crap', I mean 'Forever Piper', I mean 'Forever Charmed'.

 Now had they *treated* her like a cousin rather than a sister, that would've made sense.

[Kohola3]

A shallow comment about Paige's wedding.  Why in the heck couldn't the costume department find a dress that wasn't so darned long that she couldn't walk in it without constantly hiking it up?  Spoiled the whole scene for me.

[magicdog]

On 10/18/2017 at 4:01 PM, Esmeralda said:

Not quite sure if this belongs here or elsewhere, but...it's something we had fun with at a different site and was wondering what any of you would think.

Here's the post that started it:

 

On 10/18/2017 at 4:01 PM, Esmeralda said:

Something I was thinking about as I watched a Harry Potter marathon on TV.

We have eight seasons worth of material that can be altered or changed, so what if Charmed was done as a movie series like the Harry Potter ones?  If you were made producer, ;So I leave it to the Charmed Cafe Community, how would you construct the series and make them into a collection of 7 (8 if you make the last one a 2-part film) films?

This is my first time trying to plot an alternate Charmed series; I've never written a fanfiction story in my life. So baby steps. :)  See what you think:   

I'll take a crack at it:

 

Since we have three sisters and the Power of Three, we're going to have a Charmed trilogy.  Each film would give additional focus to one sister regarding her development both as a person and as a witch.

The first film in the trilogy would naturally be about the sisters' origin as being Charmed while trying to deal with a world they never thought existed and people they thought they knew are actually out to kill them (Rex & Hannah, etc.)  I would probably give the focus to Prue  (first born - first film) since it involves her settling issues with Phoebe and reexamining her priorities now that she has become Charmed.  Being Prue, she dives in head first.  Since she was the one who practiced her powers the most;   she probably develops her TK and is able to levitate for fights (think the fight in "Primrose Empath").  Perhaps it's towards the end of the film she develops her bilocation power.  She develops it further in the second film.   She would be the most experienced researcher/historian so she would also know the BOS back and forth and seek out other knowledge.  Andy and/or Daryl  may or may not be involved here - I wouldn't mind if he was since the sisters still need to be grounded in both magical and non magical worlds.

Second film would focus on Piper (and power growth) and the sisters being more experienced with magic and getting to know more about the craft.  Perhaps they consider joining a coven (perhaps rejecting it because too many of them are filled with weirdos who are not actual witches) until they decide to expand their horizons in a different way.   Piper is the most reluctant witch but ultimately comes to terms with it.  She is able to improve on her freeze power and is able to eventually learn to reverse time for a few seconds.   She becomes the potions master since she's the trained chef and it would make sense for the character.  There is also the matter of a certain DA (Maybe Cole but I like the idea of bringing in Nathaniel Pratt as a potential antagonist - perhaps bring in Cole who gets vanquished and then have Pratt in the final minutes of the film as his replacement as a future threat for the next installment).  Perhaps we could bring in the Cal Greene storyline in here as well.  Piper may or may not develop power number 2 here for her to deal with in the third film.  Perhaps Phoebe also gets her second power (due to her desire for an active power) and it's granted by film's end due to her diligence.  Prue meanwhile practices and masters her second power.

Third film focuses on Phoebe.  Her power grows to what it should have been in the series (each sister should have three powers each as Connie Burge intended but I'd settle for extensions of their initial abilities).  She "grows up" but definitely finds her true purpose in being a witch. She's mastered her first two abilities and may get her final power towards the end of the trilogy as a crowning achievement as a Charmed One.   We see her strengths coming to the surface and watch her find new ways to truly help others in ways they didn't expect.   Rather than an advice columnist, she becomes the social worker or counselor.  She uses her visions to heal those in emotional pain.  She could be the best spell caster, as Phoebe famously said in "Animal Magnetism", there's a grammar to spell casting and she knows how to correct and perfect them.  By now Prue and Piper have all three powers as well.  All three sisters grow in experience and wisdom which ultimately brings them closer to their ancestors (and the BOS of course) and truly bring about the Power of Three  as the most powerful witches the world has ever known.  Evil doesn't stand a chance.  

[Esmeralda]

WOW!!!  LOVE it!!!  Absolutely love it!!!  I hope you don't mind if I copy it over to that other site.

We did ours a bit differently, but I'm glad I didn't say anything because I like how you did it better.

But to give others ideas of how they might want to do this, this is the one I came up with:

 

Charmed: The Power of Three (Film 1)
Elements of 'Something Wicca This Way Comes', 'Pre-Witched' and 'That Seventies Episode'

Charmed: Witches In Time (Film 2)
Elements of 'The Witch is Back', and 'All Halliwell's Eve'

Charmed Movie 2: Fear Itself (Film 3)
Elements of 'From Fear to Eternity' and 'Sympathy for the Demon'

Charmed: Time Loop (Film 4)
Elements of 'Deja Vu All Over Again', 'All Hell Breaks Loose' and 'Forever Charmed'

Charmed: The Witch and The Jailbird (Film 5)
Elements of 'Ms. Hellfire' and 'Give Me a Sign'

Charmed: The End? (Film 6)
Elements of 'Apocalypse Not' and 'Something Wicca This Way Goes'

Charmed: The Choice, Part One (Film 7)
Elements of 'Witch Way Now?' and 'Pardon My Past'

Charmed: The Choice, Part Two (Film 8)
Elements of 'Crimes and Witch Demeanors' and 'Morality Bites'

(Nope, mine *doesn't* end with a happy ending...)
 

Anyone else want to give it a try?  Feel free to use either format or come up with your own! 

[nightwing877]

Charmed: The Power of Three (Film 1)
Elements of 'Something Wicca This Way Comes' and 'Pre-Witched'  
Main Villain: Jeremy 

Charmed: Who's Afraid of the Woogyman in the Basement? (Film 2)
Elements of 'Wicca Envy', "Is There A Woogy in the House' and very light elements from 'The Importance of Being Phoebe'
Main Villain: Rex Buckland 

After Jeremy had failed in his mission, Rex finally makes his move on the Charmed Ones by using the law to ruin the two of the sisters, while preying on the third using evil. He frames Prue for stealing and ruins Quake for Piper and has Phoebe being tempted  by the dark side when she sets up the Woogy to control her. 

Charmed: The Pact (Film 3)
Elements of 'That 70's Episode' and 'Deja Vu All Over Again'
Main Villain: Nicholas 

Charmed: Witch Trials (Film 4)
Elements of 'Morality Bites' and 'Witch Trial" 
Main Villain: Nathaniel Pratt 

Charmed: Divided By Love (Film 5)
Elements of 'Power Outage' and 'Sleuthing With the Enemy'
Main Villain: Cole

Charmed: Fear Itself (Film 6)
Elements of 'From Fear to Eternity' and 'Miss Hellfire'
Main Villain: Barbas

Charmed: Something Wicca This Way Ends, Part One (Film 7)
Elements of 'The Witch is Back' , 'Witch Way Now?' and 'All Halliwell's Eve'
Main Villain: Matthew Tate

Charmed: Something Wicca This Way Ends, Part Two (Film 8)
Elements of 'The Witch is Back', 'Witch Way Now?' and 'All Halliwell's Eve'
Main Villain: The Seer

 

Few Changes:

*Gram does not die before the sisters get their powers, but is killed at the end of the first film. Prue is involved with Jeremy when the film series begins and not Piper.
*Piper never leaves Quake, but buys it at the end of film 3 to turn it into her dream restaurant. 
*Cole is involved with Piper during film 5 only, when he becomes Piper's new head chef. He makes a special potion and puts it into Phoebe's food when she regularly visits and makes her convinced that Andy is evil, so the sisters never learn who he is. 
*Prue is involved with Bane, during film 6 through 8.
*Phoebe is involved with Andy throughout the film, but neither get married. 
*Leo is a whitelighter but only appears very minimal guiding the Charmed Ones but is never involved with any. He disappears for good after the third film.

Edited October 27, 2017 by nightwing877

[Esmeralda]

WOW!  I *really* like this, too, ESPECIALLY your few changes.  I like that like me you don't like the idea of Prue with Andy, Piper with Leo and Phoebe with Cole, but the idea of *PIPER* with Cole!  WOW!

About the only thing I don't like is the emphasis being on the villains rather than who's the innocent who they are trying to protect and what's happening in their real, non-magical life ourside of romance so the emphasis is on three sisters who happen to be witches. and not three demon-hunters who happen to live in the same manor, like the last four seasons.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Esmeralda

[nightwing877]

I wasn't that crazy about all the couples. Piper and Cole reminded me about how much fun Jeremy would be had he stayed with Piper longer and didn't know he was a warlock. I just find Cole going after Piper the most interesting. 

Sorry about that, didn't really think much more than what I wrote. I hadn't thought much more on each movie and the plotlines. This was just a brief rundown. 

[Esmeralda]

Saw this at another site and had to bring it over to see what you guys think.

The Original Poster (OP) wrote:
 

Quote

I know they're a lot of fans who don't like certain things in Season 4-8. 

Whether it be Paige replacing Prue, the Phoebe/Cole story being butchered, the show bringing in silly new magical beings like the Titans. 

I personally have a problem with the sudden change of how they handled the Source. 

In the first 2 seasons, the Source was this behind the scenes presence alluded to. Then in Season 3, they started to deal more directly with his higher level henchmen (Cole, The Triad, Shax). 

Until the Source himself is finally revealed in the Season 3 Finale. Here, the Source comes across as this truly evil figure who is all powerful, but mysterious. They don't show his face, he's dressed in red robes, even the voice. Very menacing. 

But all of that goes with Season 4. His voice sounds pathetic. He has the stereotypical black robe associated with an evil figure. Then they revealed his face, taking away the mystery and making him a generic madman, instead of the menacing calculated villain that everyone was so afraid of before. 

Then he's vanquished in the middle of Season 4 instead of the end. The Cole/Source possession story line didn't just ruin Cole, it ruined the Source and 3 Seasons worth of build up to the showdown between the Charmed ones and the Source.

Replier #1 answered:
 

Quote

it did ruin alot of plots. It destroyed a great villian, love story and any menance season 4 had. It was a great buildup that came to soon. Instead of taking on the Source two storylines could happen with new viewers getting to know Paige throughout and a new villian for a season saving the Source for five. 

The source keeps his armour, raspy voice and when he's finally vanquished at the end get rid of the hollow, use the ancestor spell and have his powers transfer to the Oracle. 

The vanquish should be a huge wave of flames that incinerated everything in site and requires the girls to orb, levitate and freeze it to stop its path towards them.

Replier #2 replied:
 

Quote

 

That would be epic. The Oracle could be the real Queen of the underworld without ruining Phoebe's character.

 

What do you guys think?

[magicdog]

One of the biggest mistakes was vanquishing the Source to begin with since he was intimated to be The Devil.  Essentially, someone who can't truly be destroyed anymore than God can be destroyed.  Not to mention the sisters vanquished the Source more than once!!  Sure the girls are powerful but that was anticlimactic!

 

It's true the storylines for season 4 were messy - two separate ones were shoe horned into one season.  We should have taken the time to know Paige first and have the sisters rebuild their bond.  Cole should never have been the Source, and if if did, he should have died for good and had some closure on his father's soul storyline from Season 3.    There were a few other stories which were being built up only to be unceremoniously dropped the following season and that wasn't fair to the viewers who were waiting for a payoff.

 

I've said this before but the sisters powers also should have been developed properly and made to look like the powerful witches the show kept telling us they were!  Half the time, it seemed their enemies had better powers/tricks/ideas than they did (remember the Stillman Sisters??) and they seemed to get dumber as the show went on - not learned or wiser.  

It also goes without saying that SD should not have been ousted from the show.  No offense to Paige fans (I did get to like the character, but she was mishandled IMO), but the show suffered after Prue died and it never fully recovered.

[nightwing877]

I didn't like that he was given the title the Source of All Evil. Because I don't understand how it is even possible for something like him to be vanquished. But the half faced source seen in Charmed and Dangerous was a simple demon. I didn't like how the continuity kept changing. He was very much the devil in season 1 - 3 and a simple demon in season 4. 

Big mistakes they made

1) Making him the devil/source of all evil to begin with, if they planned on having him vanquished.

2) building him up as this all powerful evil, only to vanquish him in a very stupid way, he should of been locked up or imprisoned forever, not killed. 

3) Showing him at all and his face. 

[Guest]

On 12/09/2017 at 1:54 AM, Magistar said:

i was watching season 4 episode 15 I cant figure out why when after the wedding was ruined and they had to bury the lazarith demon. The demon tells the girls that cole told him to ruin the wedding. so the girls started questioning cole about what was going on.  He said, " Oh hell you already figured it out.  And then killed the demon in front of them.  They continue to walk to the Mausoleum and find a (wow a chapel just happens to be there. so, Leo suggust why not have the wedding here. My question is :  " Why did they go to the chapal anyways knowing he was using his power ?

You've missed out a massive chunk of the episode? 

After this, Cole shapeshifts into the Seer and pretends that the Seer had kidnapped the real Cole and was masquerading as him to ruin the wedding, because she "foresaw their marriage leading to Phoebe becoming too strong". It was just a ruse to explain away the Lazarus demon exposing Cole as a demon. 

[Guest]

Just re-watched "Freaky Phoebe" and wondered why they even needed the help of Paige's charge to get a lock of Phoebe's hair (Imara had Phoebe's body at this point). Phoebe lives in the Manor, they couldn't find anything of hers with her DNA, a hairbrush, a toothbrush? Anything? It seemed like the potion should've been easier to make than they made out. 

[Writing Wrongs]

I'm re-watching those Obscurus Lupa Manic episodes. God, they are so funny. I love that she comes to hate Phoebe as much as most of us did. I think her biggest gripe with the show is how inconsistent it was.

Remember the Charmed Forum on TWoP? Good times. I remember having so many polls and starting the Ask Phoebe thread. It was entertaining.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Writing Wrongs

[Esmeralda]

As we all know, during 2018 we'll be celebrating 'Something Wicca This Way Comes' 20th anniversary.  Unfortunately with the bad blood between so many of the actresses and the news about Kern, I doubt that anything will be done to celebrate it on TV outside of maybe the start of the reboot that most of us don't want.

At another site, we've talked about doing a board  re-watch, doing an episode a day leading up to the anniversary.  We've talked about setting up a thread for each episode and have members watch it at the same time and make comments in the thread as we do.  We've also talked about doing it at three different times so members in different part of the world would have a chance to watch.  We've even talked about doing a reverse re-watch, starting with 'Forever Charmed' and ending with 'Something Wicca This Way Comes' the day of the anniversary.

Anyone interested in doing something like that at this site?

[EarlGreyTea]

8 minutes ago, Esmeralda said:

As we all know, during 2018 we'll be celebrating 'Something Wicca This Way Comes' 20th anniversary.  Unfortunately with the bad blood between so many of the actresses and the news about Kern, I doubt that anything will be done to celebrate it on TV outside of maybe the start of the reboot that most of us don't want.

At another site, we've talked about doing a board  re-watch, doing an episode a day leading up to the anniversary.  We've talked about setting up a thread for each episode and have members watch it at the same time and make comments in the thread as we do.  We've also talked about doing it at three different times so members in different part of the world would have a chance to watch.  We've even talked about doing a reverse re-watch, starting with 'Forever Charmed' and ending with 'Something Wicca This Way Comes' the day of the anniversary.

Anyone interested in doing something like that at this site?

I'd be interested. Watching the older seasons brought back a whole lot of nostalgia for me. I have still never seen the show past season 4, so I may bow out when we hit the end of that season, lol.

[Esmeralda]

On 1/2/2018 at 7:25 PM, EarlGreyTea said:

I'd be interested. Watching the older seasons brought back a whole lot of nostalgia for me. I have still never seen the show past season 4, so I may bow out when we hit the end of that season, lol.

LOL, that's part of the reason why we want to do a reverse-re-watch - more likely that more members would be watching at the end of it during the anniversary!  Also, re-watching it forward ruined the earlier seasons for me, knowing how the characters would change.  We're wondering if that will also go in reverse

Although if I don't do that, I might just start at Piper's & Leo's wedding and go backwards from there.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Esmeralda

[Eva Marie]

On Julian + Cole& Phoebe:

He's a weird, WEIRD actor. At that age he was more like a traditional old Hollywood movie star than a TV performer: crazy amount of macho sex appeal, very dynamic (to the point of hyper-active), unexpectedly funny with non-comedic dialogue + an unusual, memorable sort of face.

The cons: terribly smarmy and couldn't emote properly to save his life. Always overdid the anger big time. Was physically so imposing that it seemed like he was taking up the half the space on set and it felt intimidating on a female-centric show.

Their relationship:

I was impressed with how accurately it was portrayed as a toxic, abusive relationship - especially towards the end, and that Phoebe chose to slay that demon (literally!) and didn't give him the time of day after that (while he kept stalking her). Their bond was based on sex + obsession on his side and alpha male fantasy on hers.

Hated how he totally violated sexual consent in Enter the Demon. There's a scene where he suspects that Phoebe & Paige have swapped bodies, so he decides to test it by... aggressively coming onto Paige's body until she defends herself with a body slam! Phoebe's soul is inside of it, but he never asked Paige whether he could make out with her body, which he proceeds to do AGAIN before the scene is over!! What the hell?? Couldn't he have kept his hands off both sisters till they changed back or figured out a more innocuous way of testing them? Seriously, seriously wrong. Kudos to Julian for making the whole scene funny & sexy, but the writing of it is just plain creepy.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Eva Marie

[Eva Marie]

Also, like that the demon baby plot was the thinnest of thin metaphors for reproductive control and the awfulness of pregnancy in physical and social terms. I clapped for every blunt reminder of it: Phoebe never wanted to be pregnant while Cole treated her like a vessel for a male heir, then there're lines about taking control of her body and the policeman actually calls Cole a deadbeat dad!! :-)

[Esmeralda]

All part of why the S4-S5 Phoebe/Cole storyline is my absolutely least-favorite storyline on Charmed.  I hate that everyone thinks this all makes Phoebe a dreadful person while Cole is this wonderful (why can't they forgive and help him?) person when for me it was always the opposite with Phoebe the survivor and Cole the crazed stalker who does not understand the word "NO!" 

Edited February 18, 2018 by Esmeralda

[Eva Marie]

Yes - the problem with Cole isn't his supernatural evil side. It's that he was a clingy jerk in human mode. Even the suicide attempts are a classic abuser tactic as well: "I'll kill myself if you don't stay with me!". I find it so emotionally satisfying when Piper says: "You evil SOB" when vanquishing him. 

[EarlGreyTea]

8 hours ago, Eva Marie said:

On Julian + Cole& Phoebe:

He's a weird, WEIRD actor. At that age he was more like a traditional old Hollywood movie star than a TV performer: crazy amount of macho sex appeal, very dynamic (to the point of hyper-active), unexpectedly funny with non-comedic dialogue + an unusual, memorable sort of face.

The cons: terribly smarmy and couldn't emote properly to save his life. Always overdid the anger big time. Was physically so imposing that it seemed like he was taking up the half the space on set and it felt intimidating on a female-centric show.

Their relationship:

I was impressed with how accurately it was portrayed as a toxic, abusive relationship - especially towards the end, and that Phoebe chose to slay that demon (literally!) and didn't give him the time of day after that (while he kept stalking her). Their bond was based on sex + obsession on his side and alpha male fantasy on hers.

Hated how he totally violated sexual consent in Enter the Demon. There's a scene where he suspects that Phoebe & Paige have swapped bodies, so he decides to test it by... aggressively coming onto Paige's body until she defends herself with a body slam! Phoebe's soul is inside of it, but he never asked Paige whether he could make out with her body, which he proceeds to do AGAIN before the scene is over!! What the hell?? Couldn't he have kept his hands off both sisters till they changed back or figured out a more innocuous way of testing them? Seriously, seriously wrong. Kudos to Julian for making the whole scene funny & sexy, but the writing of it is just plain creepy.

Great post. 12-year-old me absolutely loved Cole and Phoebe, but adult me can recognize many of the flaws in how they were portrayed. I think Cole and Phoebe kind of ate up the show for a while. It reminded me of Joey and Pacey on Dawson's Creek in that you had this unexpected spark between two actors, to the point where it would be lunacy not to capitalize on that. Whatever flaws the couple had, I always thought the actors had insane chemistry, to the point where it looked like they were enjoying their love scenes just a little too much (yeah, I know Julian dated Shannen irl). The difference between Charmed and Dawson's, of course, is that the show was always meant to be about the sisters' relationship primarily.

The couple was also pretty abusive from pretty much Day One, with Cole lying to Phoebe about who he was and, of course, trying to murder her. I could see how Phoebe was his "in" to the Charmed world - she was good, but always had a rebellious edge. Someone like Prue would have seen through him earlier than Phoebe did. I also never thought they had a whole lot in common besides their physical relationship. What exactly did they talk about? Cole was kind of a blank slate when they got rid of his DA career. Julian's sex appeal and charm made up for a lot.

[Eva Marie]

10 hours ago, EarlGreyTea said:

Great post. 12-year-old me absolutely loved Cole and Phoebe, but adult me can recognize many of the flaws in how they were portrayed. I think Cole and Phoebe kind of ate up the show for a while. It reminded me of Joey and Pacey on Dawson's Creek in that you had this unexpected spark between two actors, to the point where it would be lunacy not to capitalize on that. Whatever flaws the couple had, I always thought the actors had insane chemistry, to the point where it looked like they were enjoying their love scenes just a little too much (yeah, I know Julian dated Shannen irl). The difference between Charmed and Dawson's, of course, is that the show was always meant to be about the sisters' relationship primarily.

The couple was also pretty abusive from pretty much Day One, with Cole lying to Phoebe about who he was and, of course, trying to murder her. I could see how Phoebe was his "in" to the Charmed world - she was good, but always had a rebellious edge. Someone like Prue would have seen through him earlier than Phoebe did. I also never thought they had a whole lot in common besides their physical relationship. What exactly did they talk about? Cole was kind of a blank slate when they got rid of his DA career. Julian's sex appeal and charm made up for a lot.

Phoebe was also the most sexual of the original 3. She's one of those women who could stay drunk on good nookie for a solid while. They really lucked out with Julian's casting in that regard: there are an awful lot of blandly pretty men onscreen, but only a precious few that are this sexually charged. He really should've been around in the 50s - the age of steaming hot larger-than-life performers. I believe that's what used to be called It.

When Phoebe starts shirking her duties and rejecting her sisters, she's not turning selfish - she's showing signs of abuse. I'm also really uncomfortable watching their size mismatch: she's pint-sized and doesn't have any combat powers, while he's a wardrobe. I completely agree that the other 3 sisters would've sent Cole packing mighty fast. Phoebe was the only susceptible one. As for the chemistry: Julian's aforementioned sexual vibe was so strong that no effort was required on the part of the actress. Alyssa looked like she just stood there and absorbed it - and it still worked.

On Paige:

I wish that they had cast Robin Tunney from The Craft. She also has that witchy quirky look, but can actually act! 'Cupid' would've been great as Leo too: gentle, but never bland. What on earth possessed the casting director to go with Brian Krause, I wonder? He's one of the most boring actors I've ever seen. Maybe that was deliberate to avoid taking attention away from the leads?

Edited February 19, 2018 by Eva Marie

[Esmeralda]

You're probably right.  Look how much attention Cole and Chris took away from the leads...one of many reasons why I don't like either.  Although I would've liked Cole if he never became the Source and I would've liked Chris if he was only in six episodes (counting both parts of 'Oh. My Goddess!' as one episode and both parts of 'Valhalley of the Dolls' as one episode) as originally planned when he was obviously supposed to be the evil son with 'ChrisCrossed' (which would've been aired the sixth episode of the season and his last episode rather than the tenth) revealing that fact, hence the title of that episode and the reason for his character's name - he was crisscrossing them, not Wyatt.  

Edited February 19, 2018 by Esmeralda

[EarlGreyTea]

15 hours ago, Eva Marie said:

Phoebe was also the most sexual of the original 3. She's one of those women who could stay drunk on good nookie for a solid while. They really lucked out with Julian's casting in that regard: there are an awful lot of blandly pretty men onscreen, but only a precious few that are this sexually charged. He really should've been around in the 50s - the age of steaming hot larger-than-life performers. I believe that's what used to be called It.

When Phoebe starts shirking her duties and rejecting her sisters, she's not turning selfish - she's showing signs of abuse. I'm also really uncomfortable watching their size mismatch: she's pint-sized and doesn't have any combat powers, while he's a wardrobe. I completely agree that the other 3 sisters would've sent Cole packing mighty fast. Phoebe was the only susceptible one. As for the chemistry: Julian's aforementioned sexual vibe was so strong that no effort was required on the part of the actress. Alyssa looked like she just stood there and absorbed it - and it still worked.

See, I always thought there was major chemistry because of both actors. Like Julian, Alyssa just radiated sexual charisma and charm. Of all the sisters, she was a natural fit for Cole because of Alyssa's appeal and because Phoebe was also very overtly sexual.

Having said that, you may be onto something about Julian's overall vibe, because I remember how much he sizzled with Shannen in that episode where they go to the Wild West. Total chemistry there, even though the characters hated each other, and usually you don't see that between couples who are together IRL. Or maybe they hadn't yet hooked up and there was unresolved sexual tension. Whatever it was, had Alyssa been the one kicked off the show, Cole/Prue might have been really interesting. They really hit a gold mine when they found Julian. Nip/Tuck was a natural fit for him because the character was all about sex, power, and arrogance.

Finally, I would like to add that Cole's devotion to Phoebe after she kicked him to the curb was admirable, even though your post is starting to make me see that much of that devotion was really just obsession toward the one person who gave Cole the time of day. His whole longing for her reminded me a lot of the 2005 version of Pride and Prejudice. The actor playing Darcy looked like he wanted to cry with suppressed sexual frustration and longing, and that was something Julian was always good at in regards to Phoebe.

[Eva Marie]

Sex, power, arrogance + fine suits. Really does sound perfect for him. He could've made a solid Bond as well. Excellent comedic timing too.

[Eva Marie]

More on Phoebe + Cole:

I've just begun S5 and crikey, does it get worse... He actually strangles her almost to death! IRL strangulation by a male partner means a high likelihood of the female one being dead at his hand within 18 months. Never mind that he won't take NO for an answer even after she stabs him!!

I've heard lots of talk on forums about how the sisters never find out that he didn't choose to be The Source deliberately. But ultimately - it doesn't matter. Cole's demonic nature is just like a mental illness IRL: the person can't help having it, but their ex-partner has legit reason for staying away from them if it causes the endless cascade of trouble and violence to her +her family that Phoebe's involvement with Cole did. Again - so freaking impressed with this show for being mature about the story and not ending it with a happily ever after with the bad boy being totally reformed.

[Apprentice79]

I always wanted to see Cole the way that Connie wanted him to be. A full demon, evil to the core, using Phoebe to destroy the power of 3.  I think that it would have been awesome to see. 

[Eva Marie]

You can argue that Cole's wishy-washiness caused the sisters + Leo more pain than a quick death by full demon would've. It was 2.5 years of worry, an unwanted traumatic pregnancy, alienation of Phoebe, constant life risk + a string of troublesome episodes. Leo actually had to chase Phoebe around the seas while having a pregnant wife to deal with. Even poor Darryl got turned into a water-cooler for a moment :-)

Darryl was right too: Cole's "love" was all about Me, Me, Me

[Eva Marie]

On 2/20/2018 at 12:30 PM, EarlGreyTea said:

Having said that, you may be onto something about Julian's overall vibe

Oh yeah. In the Siren ep he makes out with a bit part actress we never see again and it's crazy hot. Like... too much for public network TV. Back then the guy could get it on with a pot plant and still steam up the screen. The effect was completely gone by The 7-year Witch though.

I'd describe Cole as an opportunist: he gets bored with being a demon, so he gets distracted by Phoebe and decides to give humanity a shot. Then he gets bored by being a mortal, so he chases magical adventure and gets sucked back into being a demon again. Then he gets bored by the wasteland, goes back to humanity (but with demonic perks!) and demands his girl-toy back. He can't get her, so he gets bored by the human world YET AGAIN. Whichever realm he's in - the grass is greener on the other side and he wants power, thrill, a pretty woman and shiny suits. Unlike the 2 demons in S7 (Charisma Carpenter and Billy Zane's characters), he's never believable as having a genuine interest in being human and he's never likable like they are.

[Eva Marie]

All the familiar face spotting is loads of fun on this show. I'm only 3 and a bit seasons in and already there's a long list:

Billy Zane, Charisma Carpenter, Jon Hamm, Dean Norris, Amy Adams, Justin Baldoni (now there's an example of very pretty and decidedly UNsexy man), the principal and 'Liz' off GG, 'Amber' from House, Mad Men and Desperate Housewives.

Someone said that the 4 leads + JM are some of the most gorgeous people Hollywood's produced. But it's interesting that, save for Alyssa, all of them are distinct-looking.

Holly is your typical girl-next-door, but diminutive. Shannen has an asymmetrical Picasso face. Rose has the funny widely set eyes and JM has the bizarre brows (although they might be more normal if he eased up on the plucking just a tad!...and the botox later on. The same can be said for Rose). Alyssa's the only conventional beauty.

[Esmeralda]

You said you're only 3 and a bit seasons in but already mentioning some of the guest stars from the latter seasons so I'm *very* curious to find out which seasons you've already watched.