All Episodes Talk: Charmed and Wiccan

[iMonrey]

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It also meant the overpowering of elders in later seasons - they could orb, become invisible, shoot lightening, telekinesis, and didn't Gideon even conjure an knife. Why were the Charmed ones needed. 

Yes, this became an increasing problem the further the show progressed. Not only elders but even a lot of the demons seemed to have way more power than the Charmed Ones. You have demons that can blink, shimmer, teleport, materialize objects and throw fireballs. You mean to tell me any of them couldn't have taken out Phoebe, and broken the Power of Three? There were so many times when it seemed like it would have been child's play for the demons to kill any one of the sisters.

[GreenScreenFX]

Taking out Phoebe would have been so simple. Orb when she wasn't looking, fireball. Voila. I guess all of them could be iced that way. Why was this a show?

[magicdog]

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 in the 3rd season when the show plants the seed that Piper is more natural at potions than Phoebe. In Prewitched, Grams is looking at Piper as she unknowingly helps Grams brew a potion to strip the sisters of their powers. Piper naturally knows what' to put in the potion and how much because of what she saw Grams put in there beforehand. Then in the 4th season, there is dialogue in an episode - I apologize because I'm not sure which one off the top of my head, but I can research if someone needs more evidence - that Piper is the most natural at potions.

I was actually OK with this, since Piper was a trained chef, it would make sense for her character to be the most skilled at potions.  She's have that intuition of knowing the right balance to mix them and a feeling for improving them.  In fact, it would have made sense for each sisters' innate talent be something related to their craft.  One could be better at spells/spell casting, one at potions, etc. .

In fact, The Charmed Ones should have been the trailblazers for the new world of magic - the game changers.  They are firstly the most powerful witches ever known.  They should be doing things other witches (or other magical beings) couldn't accomplish or were afraid to try.    To have a magic school (which I hated as it was depicted in universe), the sisters should have been the ones to create it - and not make it look like a Harry Potter ripoff.  They could have had more informal teachings at The Manor.   If a sequel series had gone forward (or perhaps a Charmed novel set in the future), I would like to theorize the The Warren line ended with the coming of the Charmed Ones;  afterwards, a new line, (The Halliwell Line) would have begun.  The entire process would begin anew with the offspring becoming stronger and skilled until the next prophecy is revealed.

 

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I honestly thought the show was building up to a finale that Wyatt was never supposed to be the child Piper had. I remember while watching the 6th season, the foundation seemed to be planted in the 5th season. First, Wyatt was born in the house about the nexus, so similar to Phoebe, he should always struggle with his evil side. On top of that, in the 5th season in Necromancing the Stone, Grams says that something must have gone wrong. That Wyatt wasn't the child Piper was supposed to have. 

I thought with the foundation set, the show was going to go in a, "one of the many times you all went to the past to save the future scenarios, you ended up changing something that irreparably changed your future. Piper, the only way to save Wyatt from evil is to rectify that thing in the past, so Wyatt will never be born and you can get the daughter, Prudence Melinda, you were meant to have." 

 

This was what I was hoping for as well.  At the time, some fans theorized that Wyatt was in fact Phoebe's evil baby that found another womb to hide in.  When the show made it clear Wyatt was meant to be, I just accepted it and fanwanked that perhaps after the Charmed prophecy was fufilled, magical daughters didn't have to keep being born.  

[iMonrey]

Just watched Season 5's "Witches in Tights," the one where the Charmed Ones turn into Superheroes. Pretty dumb episode, but notable for being the first time we ever meet an Elder. Interestingly, Elders do not have the power to orb in this episode, and the retiring Elder assigned to the Charmed Ones for protection needs Leo to orb him in and out. He says the powers of an Elder are mental rather than physical. 

When Elders became a regular presence in Season 6 they could orb on their own. Not to mention shoot lightning out of their hands.

Can we take a minute to talk about Phoebe's unfortunately hair choices? She really messed it up in Season 4 with the harsh cut with the severe, short bangs, and it remained a disaster through the fifth season. The super-short cut in Season 6 was almost an improvement after that. 

[GreenScreenFX]

I heard... And this is is speculative....Alyssa Milano got really mean to a stylist and a stylist got mad.... So Alyssa got stuck with the shitty haircut, stylist got fired.... Funny just the same. Alyssa got stuck with a crap haircut. SMG did the same.

[GreenScreenFX]

Alyssa had to shave her hair off and start over with season 5 or 6 with short hair. SMG got a warning shot in season 3 with Amends.

[iMonrey]

Actually the change in hairstyle in Season 4 was meant to reflect a more "edgy" look once she married Cole and became Queen of Evil, since the style change coincided with her marriage to Cole. It was just such a hot mess after that she resorted to a completely new look in Season 6. You know how it is, when you go that long feeling you just can't do anything with it anymore and give in to the temptation to just cut it all off because you're sick of dealing with it.

[Rockstar99435]

I just finished up Season 7 and I have to admit that, if I ignore the whole Lady Godiva episode and that scene when Piper didn't freeze Brody and his gun, I liked it. There were definitely some plot hole problems, but overall, it felt like there was way less angst than the last few seasons. The Avatars were an interesting adversary, I liked the sisters having to team up with a demon to fight a bigger threat, the pulp detective episode was fun, John Ham was Brody's father, fun times. I also liked Leo taking over Magic School. He seemed like a much better fit than Paige.

I have not seen most of Season 8. I saw the first few episodes, but then stopped watching. I can't remember if I watched the whole finale or just the last few minutes when we see the future so I'm looking forward to some new-to-me episodes.

[iMonrey]

TNT is just now getting to the end of Season 5. You can tell they were already running out of ideas by the time they started throwing mermaids and leprechauns at us. Honestly, the show got sillier as it went along. But I'm constantly amazed to see a veritable who's who of guest stars on this show, before they became famous. Just finished watching Cat House and Zachary Quinto was the main demon - and his name wasn't even in the credits! They've also laid the groundwork for Leo's departure in Season 6 even though he didn't end up leaving. 

Rockstar - regarding Season 7 - it seemed like they had something completely different in mind when the season started before they finally revealed the Avatars, because the way they were terrorizing Leo with their giant floating heads was not at all conducive to inducting him and the Charmed Ones into the fold. That never made any sense. I think they were planning something different in the beginning then changed their minds.

[Writing Wrongs]

Season 7 was supposed to be the last, but then it got renewed so everything had to change.

[Rockstar99435]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Rockstar - regarding Season 7 - it seemed like they had something completely different in mind when the season started before they finally revealed the Avatars, because the way they were terrorizing Leo with their giant floating heads was not at all conducive to inducting him and the Charmed Ones into the fold. That never made any sense. I think they were planning something different in the beginning then changed their minds.

I was wondering about that. I never understood how terrorizing Leo with floating ghost heads was supposed to open his mind to the Avatars.

I think Paige and Phoebe's opinion of the Avatars should've been switched. (I know Paige was on the anti-Avatar side because of Kyle, so that would've needed to be changed.) Phoebe should've been the one who was anti-Avatar and Paige should've been the swing vote. One, Paige was usually the odd sister out. She'd disagree with Piper or Phoebe and the third sister would give some lip service to not wanting to be in the middle before eventually telling Paige that they know more and she just needs to trust them. With Piper on Leo and the Avatars' side, having Phoebe on the anti-Avatar side would have made Paige the tie breaker. I think that would've caused a lot more drama because Paige is new to the family and wants to be accepted by both of them. She doesn't have a special bond with either sister so there's more tension when she's trying to pick a side. When Phoebe or Piper is the tie breaker, there's never any tension because she's always going to side with the sister she's known longer. Paige would have to pick a sister knowing it could affect her relationship with the other.  Two, given what happened to Phoebe the last time that the world changed and they ended up a pure Good world, I feel like she would have had a huge problem with the Avatars' plan to end the fight between Good and Evil. She should've had so many questions about what exactly they meant by that, and what would happen if say, some one parked in front of her neighbor's driveway.

Also, I think it was weird that all of their conversations with the Avatars about their plan happened off screen. The sisters face off against the Avatars, "we have questions." Cut to Black. A sister brings up a very good point about the Avatars' plan sounding too good to be true. Different sister says "we've already talked about this a thousand times." But we never see any of it so we have no way of knowing if the sisters were lied to, tricked with vague answers that could be interpreted multiple ways, or if they just never asked specific questions about the new world they were creating and just assumed that people would never have bad thoughts/feelings in the new world.

I know the Cleaners said that the Charmed Ones had to clean up their own messes, but Homeland Security knowing that the sisters are involved with the supernatural and are gathering evidence to expose them to the world is the exact situation the Cleaners were created to stop. If the sisters get exposed, everyone gets exposed. Failing at your entire reason for being created because of spite seems like a pretty weird game plan.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Rockstar99435

[iMonrey]

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Season 7 was supposed to be the last, but then it got renewed so everything had to change.

Season 7 was never supposed to be the last season, it's just that it ended without confirmation from the WB whether there would be a renewal for Season 8 so they had to write a season finale as a potential series finale just in case. That doesn't explain why the season started off with giant floating heads terrorizing Leo and trying to make him think he was crazy. It would have made more sense if the Avatars were doing that in order to get Leo to think some other demons were plaguing him so he'd get so fed up and crazy he'd agree to join to Avatars to wipe them out. Instead the Avatars just show up and go "No that was us, we were just trying to get your attention." WTF? How was terrorizing him and driving him crazy supposed to persuade him to join them? I don't know what they originally planned to do with the floating heads but I think they just changed their minds. 

Anyway the Avatar storyline was only the first half of the season, the second half focused on Zankou and ended with his destruction.

Edited August 3, 2016 by iMonrey

[Rockstar99435]

I've started season 8 and while I'm liking most of it, every thing about Magic School is driving me crazy. Magic School is supposed to have existed for at least 1,000 years teaching generations of witches (except the Halliwells...for reasons), right? So where are they? Where are all the teachers? And the Librarian? Where are all the parents of the kids that were in Wyatt and Chris's daycare? Why aren't they cleaning, rebuilding, and restarting this institution where they, and every magical ancestor they have, found a place to learn and grow and be accepted and all that crap for a thousand years before the Halliwells even existed? Why are they just letting it die? And I just know that by the end of the season some magic asshole is going to list all the ways that the sisters have "failed" the magic community and stupid, fucking Magic School is going to be on that list. Also, now I constantly wonder where the boys are and who is watching them. Show: Oh no! Wyatt's been kidnapped by demons and Leo is in the Underworld so he's not alone. We must go and save him! Me: Hey, where's Chris? Ugh.

I like Billie and I'm like the idea of the sisters training up the next generation. I don't think it's selfish to want to move toward an advisory role after risking their lives for 7 years. They have paid their dues and should be able to retire to whatever level they want to, guilt free. 

I'm really enjoying all the actresses they've used to play the sisters looking like other people. The actress playing Piper at the funeral just nailed her physical mannerisms. You could tell it was Piper before Victor asked. And the woman playing Paige pretending to be Dex's ex-girlfriend sounded just like Paige. 

Also, on a completely shallow note, did Brian Krause find a time machine? He looks five years younger. His face is thinner and his hair is way better. He looks great. Good for him.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Rockstar99435

[bettername2come]

I'm a sucker for season rankings, so I'm bringing this back from the previous page:

1. Season 2 - Probably because this is the season I started watching. Loved the sisterly bonding, loved Prue starting her photography career, Amy Adams guest-starred, Morality bites, Phoebe was likable, Leo was likable. Generally a good season all around. I put this above season 6 because I think it's a little more grounded.

2. Season 6 - Teenage me had a crush on Chris. I loved the time travel aspect and the weird family bonds coming into play. I saw some people say they didn't believe Wyatt would turn evil from the trauma with Gideon, but I thought it would was believable that weeks/months of fighting for his life, some cracks could have been lain in the foundation that could make him go that route when we knew other things like his mom and aunts dying. And then the cheesy episodes are at least fun, which I can't say for other seasons.

3. Season 3 - I didn't hate Cole at first, I just was really sick of him by season five. Initially I like his and Phoebe's relationship and thought his early struggle with his evil nature vs his love for Phoebe was good. I loved seeing Piper and Leo get together. It was their first attempt at a longer arc with The Triad. Their dad makes some appearances and gets to rebuild his relationship with Prue a little before she died.

4. Season 1 - Original sisters discovering their powers. I love when they time travel to the 70s (sensing a pattern here), John Cho was awesome, Melinda Warren, Andy. Good season.

5. Season 4 - They handled the transition to Paige and the grief for Prue better than could be expected, but then Evil Cole gets really annoying as does Phoebe. I was ready for that story to end long before it really did. I like Paige as a social worker and Phoebe getting the advice columnist job.

6. Season 5 - I enjoyed Piper making the transition to motherhood and it set up one of my favorite things about later seasons Piper - her ability to have it all. Badass witch, successful business, love, mother, but it's a struggle. But it took too long for Cole to die. It also contains the spectacular "PAIGE IS PROPOSING VIOLENCE AGAINST THE MONKEY!"

7. Season 8 - Tough call on the last two. I rank this one above because of the finale. I'm a sucker for a happy ending and love confirmation that Chris is alive and happy, kicking demon ass with his brother in the future. I also like Coop and Henry more than Brody. But I can't stand Billie which I hate, because I like Kaley Cuoco in everything else.

8 Season 7 - They can't just stick Oded Fehr in a season and think I'm going to enjoy it. I understand why they thought they could, but they were wrong. I did like Charisma Carpenter as the Seer, but the Avatars and Zankou were lame and I hated the finale and the separation between the sisters and Darryl. I did enjoy seeing adult Wyatt back and good for "Imaginary Fiends." 

[amensisterfriend]

I love when they time travel to the 70s (sensing a pattern here

Bettername2come, I have mostly opposite opinions from you---I enjoy evil Cole of S4 and even insane obsessive Cole of S5 quite a lot, don't care about Victor Benett or the girls' relationships with him, was mostly disappointed in the Piper/Leo relationship, don't like S2 and S6 much compared to my love for S3, S4, S5 and S1, feel later Piper was a lot harder to like and relate to than earlier Piper, etc.----but I'm definitely with you on loving the time travel episodes!  They always tend to be among my favorites :) 

[Kohola3]

Note to self:  Billy has arrived on scene on the morning TNT reruns.  Time to find something else to do for a while.

[raven]

On 8/11/2016 at 9:12 PM, Rockstar99435 said:

Why aren't they cleaning, rebuilding, and restarting this institution where they, and every magical ancestor they have, found a place to learn and grow and be accepted and all that crap for a thousand years before the Halliwells even existed? Why are they just letting it die? And I just know that by the end of the season some magic asshole is going to list all the ways that the sisters have "failed" the magic community and stupid, fucking Magic School is going to be on that list. Also, now I constantly wonder where the boys are and who is watching them.

So much THIS.  I am constantly wondering the same things!  Why was Magic School abandoned?  And I just watched "Battle of the Hexes" where literally EVERY adult is out of the manor with no mention of Wyatt and Chris.  Can they take care of themselves now?  Is Victor watching them?  Grams or Patty?  Ugh, except for some occasional good stuff (Phoebe being so casual "a spell, a potion, some kind of self growth" when Billie worries after putting on the belt with superpowers; the spark that is Paige and Henry), the writing is pretty bad.

[raven]

AV Club article on Charmed

Nice write-up!

[amensisterfriend]

Thanks for posting that, raven! For some odd reason I'm just seeing it now. I actually agree with a lot of their picks for standout episodes. I'd have included a bunch from my beloved S3, of course, but unlike the more disciplined writer of this article, I would feel compelled to include a minimum 20-30 favorite episodes rather than a mere 10 :)

Speaking of which, what 15ish Charmed episodes would you guys have singled out as favorites? And you know I have to ask again about how you'd rank the seasons from your favorite to least favorite...my own order has changed a lot, so maybe other people's rankings have as well?! 

I snark on S2 a lot due to the (IMO, obviously) endless, dull Leo/Piper/Dan triangle (it felt like she was caught between two identically dull guys, the triangle did nothing to make anyone more likable and interesting, and, to make it even more pointless, the ultimate outcome was never really in doubt), Piper suddenly owning and running a 'hip' nightclub when I'd never seen her as the type who would even want to ATTEND a hip nightclub irks me somehow, and Jack Sheridan, while not a bad idea in theory, is profoundly obnoxious and annoying. I have to concede that I kind of love S2 more than I always think I do, though---Phoebe is eminently lovable this season, there's a ton of classic sisterly bonding (maybe more than any other season...?),  and S2 has a handful of the best individual episodes of the series. Morality Bites and Pardon My Past tend to get mentioned the most, and understandably so, but I find myself wanting to rewatch Murphy's Luck more than almost any other episode. Even as a HUGE fan of this show, I have to admit that in many episodes the lessons/meaning/themes are either 1) less subtly conveyed than one would expect from an After School Special or 2) not really there :) But Murphy's Luck, in addition to just being engaging, entertaining and all the other things I associate with a good Charmed episode, is actually a surprisingly nuanced look at luck/fate, depression, how every person out there is vulnerable, the degree to which perception and what we tell ourselves/let ourselves hear affects reality, etc. It's an episode that forever makes Prue more nuanced and relatable to me. As much as I love Paige and a lot about the later seasons, this is one of those episodes that makes me get why many feel the first 2-3 seasons were of higher quality and more substance overall.   

[magicdog]

23 hours ago, amensisterfriend said:

Jack Sheridan, while not a bad idea in theory, is profoundly obnoxious and annoying.

True.  I always had the feeling he character was meant to emulate David Addison (played by Bruce Willis) from "Moonlighting".  He was supposed to be the offbeat guy who would tell uptight Prue to lighten up.  Unfortunately the actors had no chemistry and I was never interested in their romantic pairing.

[GreenScreenFX]

The actor has a Gary Busey quality to him.  Just a dumb blond with big teeth.

[Kohola3]

Just have to jump in and say that the Cinderella costume in the fairy tale episode was one of the most hideous costumes I have very seen.  Just had to get that off my chest.

[amensisterfriend]

Ha! I tell myself that the wigs and costumes on this show were deliberately hideous because that kind of fits with the show's sense of camp, goofy humor and unapologetic over-the-top-ness ;) 

Random question that someone on Tumblr asked: Do you guys prefer Morality Bites or Pardon My Past, often regarded as two of the season's (series'?!) best episodes and both of which involve time travel, which for some reason I think Charmed does really, really well?! 

[Kohola3]

I thought Morality Bites was the better of the two.  It gave them a profound lesson about their powers and Phoebe (nearly) sacrificing herself at the end was shocking and moving at the same time.  Plus it gave us a look into what those poor women went through in Salem.  Gave me the shudders.

[helenamonster]

I definitely prefer "Morality Bites." It's a near perfect episode (except for the part where they're looking for the return spell and say that it's already been used and has therefore been erased from the book and then FLIP RIGHT PAST IT GOD DAMN IT EDITING DEPARTMENT WHO LET THAT THROUGH). But it was a really important episode for the show to have, especially regarding the slippery slope that magic for personal gain could send them down.

[magicdog]

On 10/13/2016 at 7:49 AM, Kohola3 said:

Plus it gave us a look into what those poor women went through in Salem.

Technically, no convicted witches were burned in Salem - or anywhere in the US.  Most were either hanged or imprisoned indefinitely.  To add insult to injury, they largely were victims of those who coveted their property (women with no husbands or sons) so they were accused to get them out of the way.

I also prefer Morality Bites.  Most everything about the episode works (even if you get past the idea that one of the most liberal cities in the US would actually allow for the public burning of witches) and it was a great introduction to how powerful the sisters could actually become;  sadly, TPTB chose to screw that up in later seasons.  It also gave a a potential future antagonist in the form of Nathaniel Pratt.  When Cole left the DAs office, I thought it was  the perfect way to bring the character back and create new trouble for the sisters - but he was conveniently forgotten.

[amensisterfriend]

You guys, something weird is happening to me while I rewatch: I'm actually really liking S6. The actor who plays Chris isn't especially great, but this time around I'm really enjoying his snark, pragmatism and how very DONE he is with our beloved sisters' nonsense at times. He just adds a different energy. It's kind of fun to have someone else around to see our characters and their dynamic from a new perspective, you know?! With Piper depressed about Leo and understandably focused on being a suddenly single mom to Wyatt and dealing with Chris, Phoebe (rather inexplicably, IMO!) into Jason and (less inexplicably!) psyched about her career, Hong Kong, etc., and Paige super into Richard and finding her purpose both in and apart from magic this season (more about that in a minute), sometimes it feels like Chris is the one who keeps everyone grounded and focused on the magical task at hand. I still feel like the overall Chris/Wyatt/Leo/Piper storyline didn't quite hold together, but it definitely gave us some entertaining and interesting scenes along the way and was at times even thought provoking, at least for someone as geekily into time travel and the whole idea of whether the future can/should be altered as I am :) 

Now, about Paige---she's actually a major highlight of this season for me, and I'm remembering why I'd recalled loving Paige most in this sixth season back when we first started reflecting back on the series. I totally relate to her ongoing search for purpose, what she's meant to do, how she tends to look for meaning and 'signs' into everything that happens, how she's like this relatable, somehow not as contradictory as it sounds mixture of snarky, impatient cynicism and super helpful, eager cheerfulness. Her temp jobs amuse me and give us some new settings outside of the manor and P3. Of the three sisters, she's the one most genuinely enthused about magic at this point of the series, and having at least one of the sisters enthused about their powers and their magical missions tends to make the show more fun for me. And while I'm mostly indifferent to Richard, Paige does seem to really like the guy. I do like how his presence brings up the issue of someone who's 'good' but can't handle having power. 

I'm also liking Piper a lot more than expected this season. It's kind of interesting watching her deal with the Chris and Wyatt stuff. I've complained about her becoming excessively bitter and cranky in later seasons, but there's some real emotional depth to her this season. And while I don't like some of what they did with Leo this season, at least it's something a little different than using him as just an exposition fairy! And as far as the show's endless parade of interchangeable, pointless love interests go, Greg the fireman was at least pleasant and easy on the eyes. 

Now for the hard part---as much as I normally love and defend Phoebe, S6 is...well...not exactly her most shining season IMO :) I normally reject the idea that she's any more selfish than the other sisters, all of whom  go through phases where they want to focus more on the non-magical aspects of their lives, but Phoebe just seems so caught up in her own stuff this season. One thing I've always loved about her is how genuinely enthused she is about helping innocents, but through most of S6 she seems relatively indifferent. And Jason, like most of the show's other love interests, is a total yawn. Maybe worse than the usual yawn, actually---there's something kind of rude, demanding, humorless and unpleasant about him at times. I didn't see much chemistry between him and Phoebe and have no idea how or why they supposedly connected at all, let alone well enough for Phoebe to move to Hong Kong just to be with him. Add in the fact that we have her whining endlessly about her 'empathy' power and that I don't really love how they felt the need to make her a 'celebrity' rather just a successful and fulfilled advice columnist (something about the celebrity thing makes her less relatable, you know?!), and I just don't adore her as much this season as I usually do. Or maybe it's just that I can never quite get used to her super short hair. But even I couldn't be THAT shallow, right?! ;) 

What would you guys say are your favorite episodes/scenes of S6? I'll keep them in mind as I watch! 

[bettername2come]

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What would you guys say are your favorite episodes/scenes of S6? I'll keep them in mind as I watch! 

I love all the scenes where the girls discover Chris is Piper's son, but Paige's misunderstanding is absolutely hilarious. I actually really love all the scenes that play with the family dynamic of a time traveler in the family. Like in Hyde School Reunion when Piper is convinced she's a terrible mother because Chris won't talk to her, but he can't lose her again. I love the Chris storyline but aside from that I can't remember very many things I enjoyed about this season. Although the demon baby episode is one of my favorites despite Chris's absence.

[Kohola3]

Season 6 was not among my favorites although it isn't any one thing I dislike. I always thought Magic School was pretty lame.  I didn't have issues with Chris overall.  I don't know, it just didn't contain my favorite episodes.

With that said, I don't mind rewatching the Valkyries episodes, The Legend of Sleepy Halliwell, The Courtship of Wyatt's Father, and It's a Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad World.

[blueray]

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 I always thought Magic School was pretty lame.

My biggest complaint about magic school was that not only not mentioned before but it seems like was always there. I feel like they could have had a nice tie to the past by having Max (from season 1) be in the class Paige was teaching. Even if they couldn't get the actor back, they could have recast him. The character could have been as senior in high school by then.

Edited November 6, 2016 by blueray

[helenamonster]

6 hours ago, blueray said:

My biggest complaint about magic school was that not only not mentioned before but it seems like was always there. I feel like they could have had a nice tie to the past by having Max (from season 1) be in the class Paige was teaching. Even if they couldn't get the actor back, they could have recast him. The character could have been as senior in high school by then.

I always thought this too! I didn't hate magic school entirely, but I felt they could have gone in a different direction for it. I think it would have been a good place to teach magic to young magical people who didn't have anyone else that could teach it to them. Max would work perfectly. His powers came from his witch mother, who died, and his father doesn't know how to handle this aspect of his son. And he certainly can't guide him in the Wiccan tradition. There are probably a lot of kids like Max who have powers but no one to teach them how to use them.

[Kohola3]

Plus it just turned up magically (pun intended) out of nowhere as just a safe place to hide the kids.  Then it became a place for Gideon to reside as he was plotting and planning.  

[Nickbaker0721]

On 2/23/2016 at 11:19 AM, amensisterfriend said:

I actually agree with most of what you wrote, 4eva! S4 is probably the highest quality season to me (if not always the most rewatchable) in large part because of how they deal with Prue's death, allowing us to see its poignant, far reaching effects while simultaneously moving forward with new characters and storylines. (Another bonus is that I liked how endearingly vulnerable S4 Paige was. And that Cole was still a pretty fascinating, compelling character to me. And that Leo and Piper were still a relatively healthy, loving couple who I adored. And that the 'dark queen' arc, while not exactly featuring Phoebe at her most likable, was still probably the best written arc of the series. And...yeah, suffice it to say I'm a big S4 fan and am always sad to see it rank so low on most people's lists of favorite seasons!)

 

The tricky thing for me is that Prue's departure from the show just happened to coincide with other developments that I'm less enthused about---an ever increasing emphasis on various men and poorly written romances over the sisterly bond, less grounded storylines in favor of lurching between over-the-top silliness and equally over-the-top melodrama, Phoebe and Piper being written as less consistent and lovable (IMO, obviously), etc.

 

I sound like I hate later seasons, and I don't! In fact, I've gone through stages where I'm actually more partial to the later seasons and find them more fun, amusing and just entertaining than many earlier episodes. I even like the blatant Hogwarts ripoff that is 'the Magic School.' But I do think the Prue era had a relatability, realism and emotional weight that I missed. Then again, most shows get a little lost by their fifth or so season, so there's no guarantee that the show would have been better if Prue had stayed. 

 

4eva, and anyone else reading this, which characters/episodes would you name as your very favorites?! 

 

For me, seasons 1-3 will always be the superior seasons. They dynamic of the show changed after Prue died, and not in a good way. They lost sight of what the show was about at its core, sisterhood,  and relied to much on the introduction of magical creatures and magic school. (By the way I absolutely detested magic school and I've always felt that was a cheap way to get the Harry Potter fans to watch, and it just wasn't good) I'm also not a fan of the "Saving Wyatt" storyline that is all of season 6. 

Anyone else have similar opinions? 

[Esmeralda]

On 5/27/2015 at 10:02 AM, magicdog said:

 

 

Which is why we'll never understand why he chose to ignore a Wyatt & Chris spinoff.  He had a built in blueprint there.

 

I happened to tune into today's episode on TNT - the one in which Phoebe "the baby made me do it!" Halliwell was just helpless and unlikable.  Something that would continue as the show progressed.

He chose to ignore a Wyatt & Chris spin-off because Drew Fuller didn't want to be trapped in that role.  He wanted to play someone like his part in "Army Wives".  I can't imagine too many fans wanting to see someone else play Chris.

Also, The WB wanted jiggle, thinking sex would save their dying network, like what they tried to do on Charmed..  Had there been a Charmed Sons spin-off, you'd see female demons dressed in leather constantly jumping the boys.  Drew Fuller was smart in saying no to that.  So instead Kern turned to mermaids and then Billie.  Thank God neither spin-off came to be.

[magicdog]

On 2/9/2017 at 7:30 PM, Esmeralda said:

He chose to ignore a Wyatt & Chris spin-off because Drew Fuller didn't want to be trapped in that role.  

Actually, I heard it was the opposite.  Both Drew Fuller and Wes Ramsey were interested in continuing their roles in a spinoff if it had occured. 

[Esmeralda]

What I read was actually at drewfuller.com and written in his handwriting - and *after* Charmed had ended.  No way he'd say he didn't want to while he still had a chance to guest-star, which, of course, he did, both in S7 and S8.  Once the show was over, the only one who showed any interest in the spin-off was Wes Ramsey, who wasn't getting any offers for jobs while Drew Fuller did.

I was part of thecharmedsons.proboards.com whose prime function was getting a spin-off (even though I couldn't care less, the admins wanted me to be part of it because they wanted my fanfics to be part of their site), and again the only one showing an interest was Wes Ramsey.

Now Drew Fuller may have said something otherwise since, like at the conventions, but were there to be a reunion now, he obviously would have to play an older Chris, which is what he wanted, while most fans wanted to find out what happened in his original future to make him want to come back.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Esmeralda

[Esmeralda]

On 10/13/2016 at 8:43 AM, amensisterfriend said:

Ha! I tell myself that the wigs and costumes on this show were deliberately hideous because that kind of fits with the show's sense of camp, goofy humor and unapologetic over-the-top-ness ;) 

Random question that someone on Tumblr asked: Do you guys prefer Morality Bites or Pardon My Past, often regarded as two of the season's (series'?!) best episodes and both of which involve time travel, which for some reason I think Charmed does really, really well?! 

The major reason why I prefer 'Morality Bites' (my all-time favorite episodes) is that I couldn't see murderers - either Past Phoebe *or* Past Prue and Past Piper - becoming Charmed in their next lifetime - especially that soon *after* 'Morality Bites'.

The funny thing is, I truly wish my favorite episode had never been aired because then I wouldn't have gotten so angry every time either a Charmed One or Chris forgot that the wrong thing done for the right reason is the wrong thing and instead thought that ends justify the means.  Had that episode *not* aired, then I just would've figured that in the Charmedverse, ends *did* justify the means and been perfectly AOK with it.  As is...

[Esmeralda]

On 10/3/2015 at 5:55 PM, bettername2come said:

A few favorites:

Blood to blood, I summon thee. Blood to blood, return to me.

 

The time travel spells were always a favorite:

A time for everything,

and to everything its place

Return what has been moved

through time and space.

 

Hear these words

Hear the rhyme

Heed the hope within my mind

Send me back to where I'll find

What I wish in place and time.

 

And the Woogeyman spell:

I am light, I am one too strong to fight,

Return to dark, where shadows dwell,

You cannot have this Halliwell.

So go away and leave my sight

and take with you this endless night.

Those are great ones.  Don't you wish they'd used spells more rather than potions in the latter seasons?

My favorites, along with those, is this one:

"Let the object of objection become but a dream,
As I cause the scene to be unseen."

And with a bit of a change, this one, the Vanquish Source one:

"Prudence, Patricia, Penelope, Melinda
Astrid, Helena, Laura and Grace,
Warren witches stand strong beside us,
Vanquish this evil from time and space."

I change it from Halliwell to Warren because the only Halliwell witches are Patty, Prue, Piper, Phoebe, Paige, Wyatt and Chris.  Although technically a Matthews, Paige is a Halliwell witch since her mother is a Halliwell.  Penny isn't a Halliwell witch because according to the family tree, she was born a Johnson and didn't become a Halliwell until she married Allen Halliwell (she lied when she said Halliwell women keep their maiden name - only Patty had - or she would've married a relative). The others in the line were Warrens or Baxters or Bowens or other such last names, but since all of them were descended from Melinda Warren, all of them (Penny and Paige included) are Warren witches.  

Another favorite that I also change is the Summon Matriarchs one:

"I call forth from space and time,
Matriarchs from the Warren line
Mothers, daughters, sisters, friends,
Our family's spirit without end,She'd
To gather now in this sacred place,
And help us bring this child to grace."

Again, the only Halliwell matriarchs are Penny and Piper.  Patty never was since Penny outlived her and the matriarch is the oldest living woman who has had children, the reason Prue, Phoebe and Paige wouldn't qualify during future wiccaning.

Unless things changed.  Before I realized that Penny was a Halliwell in Season One's 'That Seventies Episode' despite Victor being a Halliwell in 'Thank You for Not Morphing', I had fun with the idea that things could've changed when I wrote a story about Prue Trudeau, her husband Andy (a whitelighter), her daughter Vicki  and niece Melinda Wyatt from the Morality Bites world came into ours and this scene happened:
 

Edited March 27, 2017 by Lady Calypso
fanfic story deleted, as per requested

[formerlyfreedom]

Just a reminder, let's please take fan fiction conversations over to the Charmed Fanfiction! topic and keep this topic as episode discussion. You can quote or copy from here and then take that over to the topic if you would like to integrate that discussion there. Thanks!

[Esmeralda]

I tried deleting the story part from my post and it wouldn't let me.  If you can, please do.  Thanks.

If not, please just delete the post and I'll repost it.  Thanks.

LOL, and now when I look - it *is* deleted.  I'll never understand how this works...

Edited March 27, 2017 by Esmeralda

[Lady Calypso]

17 minutes ago, Esmeralda said:

I tried deleting the story part from my post and it wouldn't let me.  If you can, please do.  Thanks.

If not, please just delete the post and I'll repost it.  Thanks.

LOL, and now when I look - it *is* deleted.  I'll never understand how this works...

I deleted the story for you, Esmeralda! 

[Esmeralda]

:D Thank you!

[Writing Wrongs]

I watched some episodes this weekend. Charmed & Dangerous and Long Live The Queen are such good episodes. I've seen them so many times, but I still cried. The end scene of Long Live the Queen is still the best sister moment of the series, to me.

[Kohola3]

3 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

The end scene of Long Live the Queen is still the best sister moment of the series, to me.

Plus the music for that ending scene was perfect.

[athelyna]

I originally came into the series in Season 6 and recently decided to rewatch the season on Netflix.  It was worse than I remembered in some ways - mostly watching episodes back to back starting with the Season 5 finale where Chris comes in really highlights how obvious it was they didn't have a definitive plan for his plot.  It's kind of sad, I think they could have found a way to pull together the inconsistent "I'm here to save you from the Titans," no, "I'm here to save Wyatt" and "I needed Leo out of the way so I could be your whitelighter except whoops now I'll never be born because Leo and Piper are split up."  They should have just had Chris explain that in the original timeline they defeated the Titans but instead of a few days it took several months to figure out, and Leo was separated from Piper during all that time.  So Chris could have assumed that Wyatt was turned evil at some point during that time while Leo and Piper were distracted fighting the Titans, and when he came back in time he wanted to send Leo away for a similar length of time because he thought it would draw out the villain of the season.  Then Chris might not have realized that in his timeline he was conceived after the Titan defeat but before the Elders can't stay on Earth and have families so Piper and Leo have to divorce revelation, and that by having Leo be missing after they breakup he messed up his possible existence.  Instead, they just don't bother to even try to explain Chris' stupid inconsistent actions.  I do think the last half of the season, after the had to write in HMC's real life pregnancy and figured out what the Chris backstory was going to be it was a lot better - if I ignore all of Phoebe's love life stuff.  Magic School could have been handled better, but I don't think the idea was inherently flawed and I liked that Gideon wasn't completely evil, just misguided in what means justified the ends.  I don't know why for the part where Wyatt actually turns evil they didn't explain that at some point during his few weeks in the underworld he was possessed by a demon or a demon found him and took care of him and then when his parents found him the demon was able to keep in contact with Wyatt and seduce him over to evil.  Or instead of trying to straight up kill the baby Gideon staged a fake kidnapping and "rescued Wyatt" to get even closer to the family and become the main mentor to Wyatt, and over time convincing Wyatt the best way to use his powers is to become a dictator who can keep everyone in the world in line, with the future world being kind of like the completely lawful good world we saw in the finale.

I really need to start watching the series from the beginning.  I've actually only seen parts of the first 5 seasons, so I'm missing most of the actually good parts of the show.

[Apprentice79]

10 hours ago, athelyna said:

,I originally came into the series in Season 6 and recently decided to rewatch the season on Netflix.  It was worse than I remembered in some ways - mostly watching episodes back to back starting with the Season 5 finale where Chris comes in really highlights how obvious it was they didn't have a definitive plan for his plot.  It's kind of sad, I think they could have found a way to pull together the inconsistent "I'm here to save you from the Titans," no, "I'm here to save Wyatt" and "I needed Leo out of the way so I could be your whitelighter except whoops now I'll never be born because Leo and Piper are split up."  They should have just had Chris explain that in the original timeline they defeated the Titans but instead of a few days it took several months to figure out, and Leo was separated from Piper during all that time.  So Chris could have assumed that Wyatt was turned evil at some point during that time while Leo and Piper were distracted fighting the Titans, and when he came back in time he wanted to send Leo away for a similar length of time because he thought it would draw out the villain of the season.  Then Chris might not have realized that in his timeline he was conceived after the Titan defeat but before the Elders can't stay on Earth and have families so Piper and Leo have to divorce revelation, and that by having Leo be missing after they breakup he messed up his possible existence.  Instead, they just don't bother to even try to explain Chris' stupid inconsistent actions.  I do think the last half of the season, after the had to write in HMC's real life pregnancy and figured out what the Chris backstory was going to be it was a lot better - if I ignore all of Phoebe's love life stuff.  Magic School could have been handled better, but I don't think the idea was inherently flawed and I liked that Gideon wasn't completely evil, just misguided in what means justified the ends.  I don't know why for the part where Wyatt actually turns evil they didn't explain that at some point during his few weeks in the underworld he was possessed by a demon or a demon found him and took care of him and then when his parents found him the demon was able to keep in contact with Wyatt and seduce him over to evil.  Or instead of trying to straight up kill the baby Gideon staged a fake kidnapping and "rescued Wyatt" to get even closer to the family and become the main mentor to Wyatt, and over time convincing Wyatt the best way to use his powers is to become a dictator who can keep everyone in the world in line, with the future world being kind of like the completely lawful good world we saw in the finale.

I really need to start watching the series from the beginning.  I've actually only seen parts of the first 5 seasons, so I'm missing most of the actually good parts of the show.

Please go back and watch the first three seasons and tell us what you think of the original power of 3. My favorite seasons are the first 2 because it was about the sisters' bond. I think season 3 is the beginning of the end for me, due to Cole coming in,  Phoebe's character assassination began and the overdependence of Leo, by the sisters. Phoebe's and Piper's second powers were awful as well.  Whereas, Prue's, trajectory, in the power department, was organic and Constance's influence was obvious in that..

Edited August 16, 2017 by Apprentice79

[Esmeralda]

At a different site, someone wrote:
 

Quote

 

Not quite sure if there's a thread out there for this but.... My friend has partially agreed to have a Charmed marathon. Here's the problem... she's a Charmed virgin. I'm not quite sure what episodes to show her. So I was wondering if you all could help me!

What do you think are the 10 essential episodes to watch of Charmed? (Please keep in mind my friend prefers action to sitcom drama)

Also to note, should I exclude seasons 5-6? It may get complicated with the Chris storyline and such. If I skip it, there isn't much to miss between Paige/Phoebe. The only problem is that if I do, all of a sudden Piper will have two kids. What do you think?[

 

 

Saw this article today: 10 Episodes of Charmed about sisters who just happen to be witches and it reminded me of this particular thread.  I'm not sure it's exactly what Foxfire was looking for, since she says her friend likes action-packed shows and the ones chosen don't have a lot of that.  But for those who like me truly liked Charmed best when indeed it was about three sisters who happened to be witches and not three demon-slayers who happened to live in the same house, this is a *great* list!

The article starts this way (bolding mine, for those who don't want to have to read the whole thing):

Quote

 

With so many new series popping up on streaming services and DVD, it gets harder and harder to keep up with recent shows, much less the all-time classics. With TV Club 10, we point you toward the 10 episodes that best represent a TV series, classic or modern. They might not be the 10 best episodes, but they’re the 10 episodes that’ll help you understand what the show’s all about.

In 2000, The WB aired what is quite possibly the greatest television promo of all time. In it, several of the now-defunct network’s stars come together for a big crossover dance party set to “December, 1963 (Oh, What A Night).” The promo is a time capsule of the network’s glory days: The late ’90s were a great time for The WB, which had just cornered the teen market with Buffy The Vampire Slayer and Dawson’s Creek. “Oh What A Night” also embodies a WB series that premiered two seasons prior: Fun, over the top, a bit nonsensical, and featuring plenty of pleather outfits, the promo looks and feels every bit like the supernatural family drama Charmed, which debuted in October 1998.

By the time Charmed began, Buffy had been on the air for a little over a year and had already found critical success. With Charmed, The WB continued to ride that supernatural wave. Constance M. Burge, who created the short-lived Savannah for the network, was hired by Aaron Spelling’s production company to develop a series about witches; The WB was sold on the story of three sisters living in San Francisco who find out that they’re part of a long lineage of magic. And this time, instead of relying on a bunch of relative unknowns, the network had big names to bolster the show. Most notably: Original Beverly Hills, 90210 cast member Shannen Doherty as the telekinetic Prue Halliwell. Following their runs on Picket Fences and Melrose Place, respectively, Holly Marie Combs and Alyssa Milano rounded out the Charmed Ones as Piper (who can immobilize people and objects) and Phoebe (with the power of premonition). The Power Of Three was born.

Because they were both supernatural dramas airing on the same network around the same time, Charmed and Buffy get compared a lot. It’s a losing battle for Charmed, which never achieved the same level of critical acclaim and doesn’t have nearly the same lasting influence on television as Joss Whedon’s cult classic. For what it’s worth, Charmed was never really trying to be Buffy. Buffy is a coming-of-age tale with demons and monsters standing in as metaphors for typical teenager problems. Buffy wasn’t necessarily subtle about its symbolism, but there was a certain level of nuance to its storytelling, even amid all the camp. Charmed is unflinchingly unsubtle when it comes to its themes and metaphors, and the camp sometimes runs amok. But Charmed similarly used demons and magic to enhance more grounded storytelling. Prue, Piper, and Phoebe are grown women when they find out about their powers, not teens at the beginning of learning who they are and what they want. And whereas Buffy was often about friendship, Charmed is about family. According to showrunner Brad Kern, Charmed’s daily mantra was, “This is a show about three sisters who happen to be witches, not three witches who happen to be sisters.”

Charmed told stories about family and sisterhood through the scope of a supernatural procedural. Most episodes follow a similar pattern: The demon of the week attacks, the Halliwell sisters fail to defeat it a few times before ultimately escaping at the last minute—usually due to some sort of convenient loophole or technicality—and then the sisters regroup at P3, the nightclub owned by middle sister Piper, for some post-demon catharsis. Again, those demons usually play into some larger, more emotional part of the story—inner demons manifest as physical demons. As the series progresses, the demons become more and more powerful, but the Charmed Ones always find a way. The sisters have an alarming habit of winding up unconscious on the floor of their spectacular Victorian-style manor, gashes on their heads, blood spilling from their ears. But with the help of Leo—their Whitelighter, essentially a guardian angel—they always get up, wipe away the dirt and demon guts, and do it all over again.

Until they don’t. Characters rarely die for good on Charmed, but when they do, it hits hard. It wasn’t a story choice to kill the eldest Halliwell sister—the reasons for Doherty’s departure from Charmed remain the stuff of behind-the-scenes rumor—but it happens between the third and fourth seasons. Losing a main character isn’t necessarily a death sentence for most shows, but the dynamics between Prue, Piper, and Phoebe were the foundation of Charmed. The sisters each carried equal weight in the show’s narrative. Without Prue, there was no Power Of Three. Suddenly, Charmed had to start all over again.

So Piper and Phoebe find a long-lost half sister named Paige, played by Rose McGowan. Yeah, it sounds dumb. It sounds like Prue just gets replaced by some haphazard plot convention. And yet, making this transition work is Charmed’s greatest accomplishment. The writers made a lot of smart decisions when it came to bringing in Paige: Technically, they were trying to fill the void left by Doherty’s dramatic departure, and yet they don’t go the route of having Paige step into Prue’s shoes. She’s a different character entirely. The product of an affair between their mother and her Whitelighter, Paige isn’t like the other Halliwells at all. Charmed adapted to make room for a new sister, and the shift opened up whole new avenues for grounded, emotional storytelling.

Charmed is mostly remembered for the qualities evoked in the “Oh, What A Night” promo. But those demons of the week were connected by clear emotional through-lines, the best of which were relationship-based, rooted in family. The bond of sisterhood always trumped romantic relationships. Charmed undoubtedly has a lot of fluffy and ridiculous episodes in its eight-season run, but it has some deeply emotional and complex ones, too. It isn’t remembered as a “serious” or “dark” show, but its best episodes are the darker, more emotionally tumultuous ones, the ones that really dig into what it means to be sisters so inextricably bound by something as powerful as a supernatural prophecy. Charmed is most captivating at its simplest, and the following 10 episodes capture the show as the supernatural family drama that it is at its core—a story about sisters who happen to be witches, not the other way around.

 

Then they list those ten episodes and why they feel those are the ones that should be used to introduce a Charmed virgin to the idea of sisters who happen to be witches.  If you want to, I'll let you go to the article and read what I found extraordinarily interesting commentary on the show and these episodes, but for now, here *are* those episodes.  Although a few don't make my Top 50 Episodes list, I can't argue that they do indeed do a great job of summarizing Charmed at its best in the order that they were aired:

1. 1x17: That Seventies Episode

2. 1x22: Deja vu All Over Again

3. 2x02: Morality Bites

4. 2x21: Apocalypse, Not

5. 4x03: Hell Hath No Fury

6. 4x09: A Paige From the Past

7. 4x20: Long Live the Queen

8. 5x06: Sympathy for the Demon

9. 5x20: Sense and Sense-Ability

10. 7x22: Something Wicca This Way Goes

Naturally those who know me know I'm thrilled that they skipped S6, S8 and most of S7 (IMOHO, had they substituted something like 'Something Wicca This Way Goes' for 'Oh, My Goddess!', it would've been a *much* better series), while shocked that they didn't include any from S3.

I would've substituted 'All Halliwell's Eve' or 'Just Harried' or 'Pre-Witched' for 'Hell Hath No Fury' and it would be just about perfect, with 2 for S1, 2 for S2, 1 for S3, 2 for S4, 2 for S5 and 1 for S7.

What about you?  If you had to choose ten essential episodes that "might not be the 10 best episodes, but they’re the 10 episodes that’ll help you understand what the show’s all about", which ones would they be?
 

[blueray]

 I like those 10 episodes. However, I think that a lot of the episodes wouldn't make sense if you hadn't seen the show through. Such as the lose of Prue and Phoebe turning "evil". Plus I think someone first being introduced to the show needs to see the pilot. Actually I suggest showing most of season 1 to see if they like it.

[AsYouWish]

I'm about to start watching this series for the first time! Are there any episodes I should skip? Anything I should be prepared for in advance?! 

[Esmeralda]

3 hours ago, AsYouWish said:

I'm about to start watching this series for the first time! Are there any episodes I should skip? Anything I should be prepared for in advance?! 

Honestly, for the first time, I think you should just start at the beginning and work your way through.  I think each episode includes something that's referred to later on.  You may end up deciding not to watch the whole thing, but if you do, then you can go back and skip the ones you didn't like.  

The major thing to keep in mind is that this *did* take place in the late 90's/early 00's, so it's pretty dated, and if you're in it for special effects, you'll probably be disappointed, since there is only CGI near the end, and pretty bad ones.  Also, if you've watched and liked Buffy or other such supernatural shows, you'll probably be disappointed.  This one, especially at the beginning, is closer to Touched by an Angel or Seventh Heaven. Especially in the beginning, this is a show about three sisters who happen to be witches, not three witches who happen to be sisters. 

Edited September 5, 2017 by Esmeralda