Loving/The City - General Discussion

[UYI]

Loving: 1983-1995, ending with an infamous Serial Killer storyline, with much of the surviving cast moving onto:

The City: 1995-1997, with said characters moving from Corinth to a trendy SoHo loft in New York City.

There is a YouTube channel, ABC Soap Memories, that has uploading a LOT of storylines/episodes from Loving recently.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-igTr5_Au1541PksASNQKw

Also: If the mods want to divide the two shows into their own topics, please feel free to do so! I just put them together in one place because of how closely linked they are to each other, with one quite literally leading into another. :) 

[Steph J]

I was an occasional viewer of The City during its run, though not a lot about it has stuck with me. I remember that they had a transgender character (the first on an American soap, I think) who was written out pretty soon after the "reveal" but my recollection is that she at least got a happy ending with her boyfriend. I also remember Tracy Quartermaine (Jane Elliot was also a producer on the show, I believe, as well as being a producer on Loving during its final stretch) coming on and marrying a mobster, and a heavily pregnant Amelia Heinle in a love scene with the guy who played Tony.

It's only recently that I've gotten into Loving and I quite like what I've seen of it. I wish there was more of it available, particularly from the '80s.

[Black Knight]

Loving had quite the impressive college scene near the end as nearly all of them went on to fame or at least consistent employment: Roger Howarth, Laura (Sisk) Wright, Amelia Heinle, Michael Weatherly, Paul Anthony Stewart, and Rebecca Gayheart. The only one who faded into obscurity is the woman who played Howarth's girlfriend. (I think she was engaged to Paul Michael Valley of Another World for a while.)

I will never forget reading in the paper, wondering if it was an April Fool's joke, "A serial killer will bump off most of the town of Loving. Afterwards, the remaining cast will move into a building in New York City owned by Morgan Fairchild." (paraphrased since I no longer remember the precise wording, but that was the gist) I really liked Stacey/Buck and so hated that she was the first murder victim, but the serial killer storyline was pretty strong (though I guessed pretty early, after the car accident, that Gwyneth was the killer - for her to be the survivor of an alleged murder attempt was just so obviously trying to throw suspicion off) and led to unforgettable scenes for Christine Tudor at the end.

I remember the transgender character too - Azure was her name, if I remember right, and Bernardo was her boyfriend - and I was sorry they bailed on the storyline so extremely fast.

 

[UYI]

8 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Loving had quite the impressive college scene near the end as nearly all of them went on to fame or at least consistent employment: Roger Howarth, Laura (Sisk) Wright, Amelia Heinle, Michael Weatherly, Paul Anthony Stewart, and Rebecca Gayheart. The only one who faded into obscurity is the woman who played Howarth's girlfriend. (I think she was engaged to Paul Michael Valley of Another World for a while.)

 

 

Christine Tucci? I know she played Amanda Cory on AW after Sandra Ferguson left the show. 

[UYI]

These were posted years before ABC Soap Memories even existed by other YouTubers, but here are three episodes from the Serial Killer storyline: Jeremy's death (having cement plaster dumped on his head, resulting in him suffocating to death and essentially turning him into a real life statue!), Jeremy's memorial service, and the episode where the Serial Killer is finally revealed, two weeks before the show was done.

And of course, the special opening, created specifically for this storyline. FIGURE IT OUT. :D

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by UYI

[Steph J]

10 hours ago, Black Knight said:

The only one who faded into obscurity is the woman who played Howarth's girlfriend. (I think she was engaged to Paul Michael Valley of Another World for a while.)

 

1 hour ago, UYI said:

Christine Tucci? I know she played Amanda Cory on AW after Sandra Ferguson left the show. 

Eden Atwood.  Her character's name was Staige.

[Black Knight]

Thanks, I could not remember the actress's name although I sort of knew her character's name (I had tried to look the actress up on the IMDB page for Loving, but looked up "Sage" instead of "Staige" as the character name). I should have clarified that PMV's fiancée from Loving wasn't actually on AW with him. He was super bitter about the end of the engagement in the soap press, BTW.

I was always sorry/surprised that George Palermo, who played Tony, basically didn't have a career after The City. He was so cute and had such great chemistry with his love interests that I shipped both of his pairings (Steffi, and then because Amelia Heinle left the show to be with her then-husband Michael Weatherly, Ally). It seemed like he easily could have gone to another soap, but I only ever saw him in an L&O episode (practically obligatory for any NYC-based actor) after that. A quick check of his IMDB page shows that he is suddenly working again after not having a credit since 2007. Interesting.

ETA: Man, why isn't the full episode of Gwyneth confessing to Steffi up on YT? I can only find the first couple parts of that episode. Gwyneth's meltdown when she realizes she cannot justify Jeremy's murder as she did the others (Jeremy wasn't in emotional pain, she killed him only to protect herself from discovery), and Steffi mercy-killing her after Tess smashes the hell out of her hands still stand out so strongly in my memory. It's a disgrace Christine Tudor didn't get so much as a nomination that year.

[Pearson80]

On 3/5/2021 at 10:56 PM, Black Knight said:

Thanks, I could not remember the actress's name although I sort of knew her character's name (I had tried to look the actress up on the IMDB page for Loving, but looked up "Sage" instead of "Staige" as the character name). I should have clarified that PMV's fiancée from Loving wasn't actually on AW with him. He was super bitter about the end of the engagement in the soap press, BTW.

 

Didn't he quit Another World because she got fired by Jill Pharren-Phelps the  notorious show killer?

[Steph J]

On 3/5/2021 at 7:56 PM, Black Knight said:

ETA: Man, why isn't the full episode of Gwyneth confessing to Steffi up on YT? I can only find the first couple parts of that episode. Gwyneth's meltdown when she realizes she cannot justify Jeremy's murder as she did the others (Jeremy wasn't in emotional pain, she killed him only to protect herself from discovery), and Steffi mercy-killing her after Tess smashes the hell out of her hands still stand out so strongly in my memory. It's a disgrace Christine Tudor didn't get so much as a nomination that year.

It was up for a while, but the channel (which had posted all of the episodes encompassing the murders storyline) got taken down, as so many soap channels have over the last year.

I would imagine that Tudor's lack of a nomination had at least a little  to do with the fact that the show had been off the air for five months by the time the nominations came out, although I doubt ABC ever made much of a push to help Loving get recognized at the Emmys given how few nominations it ever received. I believe the only actors who ever got nominated for the show were Noelle Beck and Bernard Barrow, which is crazy because Paul Anthony Stewart would have been eligible for the Younger Actor category during his first two years on the show and you'll never convince me that he wouldn't have been more deserving of a nomination for 1994 than Jason Biggs.

[Black Knight]

9 hours ago, Pearson80 said:

Didn't he quit Another World because she got fired by Jill Pharren-Phelps the  notorious show killer?

No, Eden Atwood was never on Another World. She basically never worked again after Loving, unlike all her fellow co-stars in the college scene she was part of.

You're thinking of his second ex-fiancée, Christine Tucci, who was never on Loving, and worked fairly steadily for a while after she was fired from AW, unlike PMV. I don't think there was really much bitterness between PMV and JFP over whatever happened because he came back for a guest stint.

[UYI]

16 hours ago, Steph J said:

It was up for a while, but the channel (which had posted all of the episodes encompassing the murders storyline) got taken down, as so many soap channels have over the last year.

I would imagine that Tudor's lack of a nomination had at least a little  to do with the fact that the show had been off the air for five months by the time the nominations came out, although I doubt ABC ever made much of a push to help Loving get recognized at the Emmys given how few nominations it ever received. I believe the only actors who ever got nominated for the show were Noelle Beck and Bernard Barrow, which is crazy because Paul Anthony Stewart would have been eligible for the Younger Actor category during his first two years on the show and you'll never convince me that he wouldn't have been more deserving of a nomination for 1994 than Jason Biggs.

Bernie Barrow won the only acting Emmy the show ever got, for Outstanding Supporting Actor in 1991. 

[Steph J]

On 3/4/2021 at 5:36 PM, UYI said:

There is a YouTube channel, ABC Soap Memories, that has uploading a LOT of storylines/episodes from Loving recently.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-igTr5_Au1541PksASNQKw

I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on 1994's "Trisha might be alive, no it was just a hoax (although actually she is alive)" storyline. I thought the beginning and middle were strong (although I hate that Buck is the person to bust Curtis and present as a moral authority when he's the whole reason Trisha went missing in the first place and he never suffered any consequences from that), but the ending is weak. Trucker goes all the way to Rome to confront Jeff and all Jeff has to say is "No, Trisha's not here" and Trucker's like, "Well, good enough for me. I mean, Jeff did let everyone think that Trisha was dead so that he could have her to himself once before, but I'm sure this time is different." I mean, the show was obviously limited by the fact that Noelle Beck wasn't coming back (though I do get a good laugh out of the appearances of mute Trisha who only appears from the back), but it's still a less than satisfying conclusion.

If they had gotten Beck to come back it would have made for a killer start for a return story, though.

[Black Knight]

Yes, it was odd in respects. I'm not sure if they did the storyline in the hopes of luring Noelle Beck back or in order to emotionally free Trucker so he'd move on completely with Dinah Lee.

Speaking of, that Dinah Lee recast was Elizabeth Mitchell's first acting job. That casting director sure was good at identifying young talent.

[Hiyo]

Didn’t Beck come back briefly during the final serial killer story?

[sugarbaker design]

On 3/5/2021 at 10:56 PM, Black Knight said:

It's a disgrace Christine Tudor didn't get so much as a nomination that year.

It really is, CT turned in such great work that year.  There's a scene I remember (somewhat) to this day.  When Jeremy was murdered, a character took Gwyneth into a room to tell her.  The camera pans away as Gwyneth howls with grief.  It was chilling.

Of course, it had yet to be revealed that Gwyneth was in fact the killer.

[Black Knight]

If I remember correctly, Gwyneth had sort of blocked out of her mind that she was the one who killed Jeremy, since she had done it for a selfish motive. So her reaction upon being informed of Jeremy's murder was genuine.

[Steph J]

9 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Yes, it was odd in respects. I'm not sure if they did the storyline in the hopes of luring Noelle Beck back or in order to emotionally free Trucker so he'd move on completely with Dinah Lee.

I've read elsewhere that Dinah Lee was originally meant to be the character who died in the plane crash that happens a couple of months later, so I wonder if they were in negotiations with Beck with the intention of bringing Trisha back and killing off Dinah Lee, but had to change course when the deal couldn't be closed and decided to recast Dinah Lee instead. Certainly it would have been beyond brutal for Trucker to come that close to finding out Trisha was alive only for it to come to nothing and then for Dinah Lee to die on top of that.

9 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Didn’t Beck come back briefly during the final serial killer story?

She came back for, I think, about a week's worth of episodes (although Trisha was around before that, they just didn't show her face). I found that a little unsatisfying, too, because by that point in the story so many of the key people in Trisha's life were either dead or otherwise gone and because rather than giving the character closure, she was given a very ambiguous exit (although this may be because the producers were trying to talk her into joining The City and the door needed to be left open for that). And also because I hate the Trucker/Dinah Lee pairing and would have liked to see him end up with Trisha.

[Black Knight]

If they had serious hopes of Beck joining The City (and I can see why they had hopes because her IMDB's pretty thin for a while after she left Loving), I can see why they couldn't reunite her with Trucker when she returned for that one week. He wasn't a fit for The City, and plus the The City writers would probably have preferred to be able to give Trisha a new love story with a new love interest to drive story. They already had Angie and Jacob to be the pre-existing core romance.

[JAYJAY1979]

I was bummed when Janie ended up being killed in the plane crash instead.  A character with loads of potential..that clicked well with everyone she interacted with.

That spoke to the show at large..loads of potential that never quite found its niche. 

The original concept was about the college..and all the students, faculty, and alumni that were tied to it.  Shame the focus moved away from that within a year or two 

[ByaNose]

But the real mystery is whatever became of Robert Tyler who played Trucker? Even for a low rated soap he was extremely popular. I thinking airing on ABC helped, too. I don’t think he acted on another soap after that. I was surprised he wasn’t picked up by AMC, OLTL or GH. According, to IMDB he’ll be 62 in April. 

[UYI]

There were some virtual Loving reunions last May, hosted by Loving historian/"super fan" Tricia Shatney (unfortunately, I can't embed them). Robert Tyler didn't participate in either of them, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3MnzLAm4s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5bUnj6csnQ

Edited April 4, 2021 by UYI

[Black Knight]

15 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I don’t think he acted on another soap after that. I was surprised he wasn’t picked up by AMC, OLTL or GH. According, to IMDB he’ll be 62 in April. 

Wow, his IMDB is practically non-existent after Loving. Very different from his then-wife Jessica Collins, who kept getting gigs after she left the show. Maybe he just decided after Loving that he wanted to work in a different industry.

[ByaNose]

6 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Wow, his IMDB is practically non-existent after Loving. Very different from his then-wife Jessica Collins, who kept getting gigs after she left the show. Maybe he just decided after Loving that he wanted to work in a different industry.

Yeah, I suspect that he left tv. I’m pretty sure he could’ve gotten another soap gig after Loving ended. Just because you were successful, young & good looking doesn’t mean working as actor is the end all be all. I guess I was looking for some soap star past or current to say something about him (or cast mates in general). Of course, he could have disconnected himself from his cast mates, too. I worked at my business for 24 years before being laid off (those bastards...LOL) but I only keep in touch with 3 or 4 people now. Life goes on, I guess. That said, I would love to see a current picture of him. I’m nosey that way. LOL!!!! Happy Easter and have a good week going forward. 

[Steph J]

20 hours ago, UYI said:

There were some virtual Loving reunions last May, hosted by Loving historian/"super fan" Tricia Shatney (unfortunately, I can't embed them). Robert Tyler didn't participate in either of them, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3MnzLAm4s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5bUnj6csnQ

I wish they would do more of those reunions with fewer people involved in each. There was some good tea in the ladies' reunion, but there were so many people involved that everyone basically only got one question.  I'd love to see reunions of Randolph Mantooth/Lisa Peluso, Robert Tyler/Noelle Beck (this was the most recent photo of him I could find, it's post-Loving but still 16 years old, lol), and, although I know it would probably never happen for various reasons, a reunion featuring Michael Weatherly/Amelia Heinle/Paul Anthony Stewart/Laura Wright.

[Black Knight]

2 hours ago, Steph J said:

although I know it would probably never happen for various reasons, a reunion featuring Michael Weatherly/Amelia Heinle/Paul Anthony Stewart/Laura Wright.

Michael Weatherly is obviously not happening ever, but it feels like a reunion of the other three could certainly be plausible, and they could always include Ted King or Roger Howarth if they really wanted four.

One thing I'm enjoying about this thread is that it's causing me to look up actors' IMDBs, and I just learned that PAS married his boyfriend three years ago. Congrats to him. That was always an interesting situation because he didn't really hide his sexuality - he would introduce his boyfriends to fans, even - but the soap press wouldn't print anything about it.

[UYI]

There WAS a sort-of Loving/Guiding Light combo reunion last June, featuring PAS & LW along with one of Paul's two GL leading ladies, Nancy St. Alban. Alan Locher of The Locher Room hosted it; he used to work in the PR department for GL & ATWT; he started these reunions a year ago, shortly after the pandemic began.

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by UYI

[ByaNose]

I just rewatched the Loving pilot. I really liked the original Roger Forbes played by John Shearin. He was very John Kennedy-esq. I think he was replaced shortly thereafter but I can’t recall if it was his decision or not. All that said, the Forbes mansion was beautiful & had a balcony view to look at all the guest from. This is when soaps had budgets. It never had a chance competing against Y&R. Perhaps if it had been sandwiched between AMC & OLTL it might have survived. It would have been like B&B which was put in the middle of Y&R and ATWT. Also, Susan Walters was a real find as Lorna. She was only 20 but she had “it”. Whatever it is. LOL!!!!

[UYI]

On 4/15/2021 at 4:45 PM, ByaNose said:

I just rewatched the Loving pilot. I really liked the original Roger Forbes played by John Shearin. He was very John Kennedy-esq. I think he was replaced shortly thereafter but I can’t recall if it was his decision or not. All that said, the Forbes mansion was beautiful & had a balcony view to look at all the guest from. This is when soaps had budgets. It never had a chance competing against Y&R. Perhaps if it had been sandwiched between AMC & OLTL it might have survived. It would have been like B&B which was put in the middle of Y&R and ATWT. Also, Susan Walters was a real find as Lorna. She was only 20 but she had “it”. Whatever it is. LOL!!!!

Interestingly enough, per Wikipedia, the show actually beat Y&R in the first half hour in some of the bigger markets (New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, etc.), but I think the number of smaller stations (mostly smaller stations, at least) that DIDN'T run it (whether they placed it late at night, early in the morning, or outright dropped it a few years before its run ended in 1995), had almost as much to do with sealing its fate as scheduling it at 12:30 did. 

[ByaNose]

4 minutes ago, UYI said:

Interestingly enough, per Wikipedia, the show actually beat Y&R in the first half hour in some of the bigger markets (New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, etc.), but I think the number of smaller stations (mostly smaller stations, at least) that DIDN'T run it (whether they placed it late at night, early in the morning, or outright dropped it a few years before its run ended in 1995), had almost as much to do with sealing its fate as scheduling it at 12:30 did. 

I didn’t know that I’m from Philadelphia. It was a good half hour show.
 

Laura Wright said in interview recently that they taped Loving almost live. The camera would roll down each set and then they were taping one after the other without stopping if possible. It was basically done all at one time. Now, the soaps tape out of order and sequence. She said a half soap had the best hours, too. Basically it was 9-5. Whereas her friend Kelly Ripa was doing AMC for sorts of hours. Back then the soaps didn’t go dark for weeks on end. They were taping 365 days a year and only off for a few days for Thanksgiving and Christmas. 

[UYI]

2 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I didn’t know that I’m from Philadelphia. It was a good half hour show.
 

Laura Wright said in interview recently that they taped Loving almost live. The camera would roll down each set and then they were taping one after the other without stopping if possible. It was basically done all at one time. Now, the soaps tape out of order and sequence. She said a half soap had the best hours, too. Basically it was 9-5. Whereas her friend Kelly Ripa was doing AMC for sorts of hours. Back then the soaps didn’t go dark for weeks on end. They were taping 365 days a year and only off for a few days for Thanksgiving and Christmas. 

I remember reading an SOD interview with Amelia Heinle, shortly after she started playing Mia on AMC. SOD reminded her of a quote from her Loving days as Steffi, where she talked about how great it was to be on a half-hour soap, and how she would "get ulcers" if she ever had to be on an hour long soap, and yet AH said the schedule at AMC wound up being better than she thought at would (and of course, she wound up at another hour long soap, Y&R, later on, and is still there, lol). 

Edited June 16, 2021 by UYI

[ByaNose]

2 hours ago, UYI said:

I remember reading an SOD interview Amelia Heinle, shortly after she started playing Mia on AMC. SOD reminded her of a quote from her Loving days as Steffi, where she talked about how great it was to be on a half-hour soap, and how she would "get ulcers" if she ever had to be on an hour long soap, and yet AH said the schedule at AMC wound up being better than she thought at would (and of course, she wound up at another hour long soap, Y&R, later on, lol). 

I’m sure like anything you get used to it. If not, she would been fired. Daytime have long hours and humongous dialogue with okay to great money. Whereas nighttime dramas have long hours but apparently you sit around all day waiting to be filmed. Of course, the nighttime actors make even bigger money. I don’t know if today’s network shows actors make ER and Friends money but they are still cash cows compared to the soaps. 

[Steph J]

3 hours ago, ByaNose said:

Laura Wright said in interview recently that they taped Loving almost live. The camera would roll down each set and then they were taping one after the other without stopping if possible. It was basically done all at one time... She said a half soap had the best hours, too. Basically it was 9-5.

There's an article from 1988 available on the Classic Soap Opera Digest tumblr that breaks down a day on the set of Loving and it describes it pretty much the same way. It starts with dry rehearsal at 8, blocking at 10:30, dress rehearsal after lunch, and taping from 2:30 until about 5.  The most surprising thing about that is the amount of rehearsal involved, given that soaps are often said to film at such speed that there's no time to rehearse.

[Black Knight]

Soaps used to get much more time to rehearse, thanks to them shooting most every weekday. Now that there are production hiatuses and such, to save money.

I'm not surprised Amelia Heinle said the AMC schedule was better than she thought, since her character there was secondary, unlike her Loving/The City character. She was generally involved in other people's storylines, and what storylines of her own she did have, didn't have much airtime devoted to them.

Of course, years later she went to Y&R, and plays a major character there.

[UYI]

For any LW/Ally fans here:

 

[Dr.OO7]

I was idly fooling around on YouTube and I was able to find the entire serial killer story. All you have to do is search "The Loving Murders". The poster is "Bob On Soaps" and the clips are numbered from beginning to end.

I get that TPTB really wanted to shake up things and boost ratings, but I think moving everyone to NYC was a mistake (and this is coming from a born and raised New Yorker). It just never felt right after that. 

And if you ask me, the problem wasn't the storylines, it was the Friday Night Death Slot time that the show had--up against Y&R in some markets, aired at lousy times in others, or not aired at all in still others.

[Black Knight]

A lot of the Loving Murders videos for Bob on Soaps seem to be missing now.

BUT in looking around, I found out that the episode in which Gwyneth confesses everything to Steffi, spirals into suicidal guilt upon realizing she killed Jeremy, and then talks Steffy into mercy-killing her is back on YouTube!! I've waited so long to watch this episode again. Crappy video and all, Christine Tudor still gives me chills all these years later.

 

Bob on Soaps does have the episode @sugarbaker design mentioned upthread, when Gwyneth is told that Jeremy is dead. Such a devastating final scene. (I had forgotten the maybe slightly lighter moment beforehand of Angie telling Gwyneth she's sorry and then getting the hell out of there without realizing Gwyneth didn't know yet - or maybe subconsciously realizing and not wanting to be around for the reveal.) Charles mentions right beforehand not being sure about whether Jeremy's death was part of the serial murders because there was no photo fragment. Gwyneth didn't kill Jeremy for the same reason she killed the others and that's why she couldn't handle it when it comes up in her conversation with Steffi.

 

[ByaNose]

I’m watching an episode from 1986. There is some fancy party at the Aldan mansion. When soaps had budgets. Jeff Tractia from The Bold and the Beautiful is on. I don’t recall him being on the show but at that time I was working and might have missed this. Oh, no! Tricia is being attacked in her bedroom by some guy. Gotta go.