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S03.E06: Conscience of the King

ElectricBoogaloo

By ElectricBoogaloo
in American Gods [V]

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AnimeMania

AnimeMania

18 hours ago, T Summer said:

He tells Sam Blackcrow his "intentions are honerable"?

I think that has more to do with him using a "fake"/different name than he used with Blackcrow. That by itself makes it seem his intentions are dishonorable.

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T Summer

T Summer

On first watch I thought this episode  was just kind of dull and wasted   valuable time, the season being a mere  ten episodes  and all. Watching  it again, I found it rather annoying. When Shadow tells Laura Wednesday is his father she said what she said about not much surprising her but that  certainly did...  wouldn't she have had a whole ton of questions for Shadow about whether HE  himself is a god or possesses  supernatural abilities? I'll bet it would have been good for  hours  of conversation, as Laura Moon has  seen as much   and quite possibly more of Wednesday's capabilities than Shadow has.

When the war between the old and new gods finally happens what are the chances Demeter's scattered lights recombine and we see her   in her old form when she swoops in to assist Odin? If that's not where the writers are taking it, showing us weeks of her indifference and avoidance only to  to "surprise" us with the turnabout...  then it was a complete  waste of time (IMHO).

Maybe it's just me.

 

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

I am sad that we didn't get more of a talk between Shadow and Laura, its been ages since they saw each other and a whole lot has gone down. Shadow knows that she's alive now and she knows that Wednesday is Shadows dad and that's about all we got from them. 

Mr/Ms World sure has been switching identities up a lot, having a bit of a personal crisis? This episode was alright, basically another place setter episode as for the actual plot. It had some nice moments, and I could watch Shadow dance around to Poison on a loop, but not a lot actually happened. 

That being said...Book Spoilers ahoy!

Spoiler

There might be some foreshadowing of things that will lead to the stories climax later on, which would make this episode a lot more important. I am guessing that Demeter may take Easter's role in the climax resurrecting Shadow, and I am also guessing that Mr. World was talking to Mr. Wednesday on the phone. Especially Mr. World telling whoever he was talking to about Laura. Also, Margarite hasn't heard from her oldest son in awhile? Yeah, I think I know where he is. Ouch. 

 

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T Summer

T Summer

(edited)

Re: Demeter

 

Then I was pondering the child Demeter said they lost. I heard somewhere that Odin had two sons... one being Thor. This story line can't be about Shadow being the child Demeter mourns because she certainly would know as well or better than the father if her own child was still alive, no?

 

Spoiler

actually a reaction to a spoiler. Demeter resurrecting Shadow at the battle? interesting!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

;

Edited by T Summer
must have been typing while you were posting, Tennisgurl
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T Summer

T Summer

1 hour ago, showme said:

I am not sure what happened at the end of this episode, did Demeter ditch Wednesday and left on her own, or did she turn into wind and died?

It looked to me like after  agreeing to leave the retreat with Wednesday  Demeter said her goodbyes to her friends then went outside and changed form while he watched  from inside.  IDK  of course, but I doubt she's dead and can't  reform and come back if she wants to.

 

Even though I reacted to Tennisgurl's spoiler above, I haven't read the book so I'm guessing. IDK what the different gods' (and godesses) capabilities are.

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WatchrTina

WatchrTina

I had to watch this episode a second time because there is SO much random shit going on and SO much of it is off-book that I just became confused.  Second viewing did not really help.  I have many unanswered questions.  So here they are in no particular order.

I have a recollection of who Demeter is from WAY back in some high school or collage mythology class.  What I recall is that Demeter's daughter, Persephone, was kidnapped by Hades (god of the underworld/death) and then tricked by him into eating some pomegranate seeds, which cursed her to remain in Hades for part of each year (some sources say 4 months, some say 6.)  Demeter, in her grief, refuses to nourish the earth while Persephone is in Hades and that's why we have winter every year.  So . . . is THAT the child she is grieving?  If so, that doesn't really make any sense. This episode suggests that Demeter retreated from the world after the death of a baby she conceived with Odin, right?  

Okay, I think I need to just hand-wave it and let it go.  After all, we saw several dozen versions of Jesus in an earlier episode so I guess I should just accept that the Demeter/Persephone tale I'm familiar with is the Greek story, and the story of American Demeter is different.  Apparently American Demeter was wooed by both American Odin and American Tyr, and then she retreated into prolonged grief (and finally into a long-term care facility) due to the loss of the baby she conceived with American Odin/Ofnir.

Okaaaaaay.  It's still not clear to me why American Odin was trying to spring Demeter from the facility. (Heh, "spring.")   At first she thought he was just after her money.  That may be partially true but I'm going to guess that she's a pretty damned powerful goddess and as such Odin is actually trying to recruit her for Team OldGods.  I thought he looked pretty surprised and disappointed when she decided to dissolve into a whirlpool of leaves rather than stay with Odin in corporeal form.  But -- as others have already suggested -- just because she went "poof" in the wind does not mean she is completely out of the fight.  I predict we are going to see her again.

Now lets talk about Tech Boy.  When he first showed up I was like "Wait what?  Didn't we last see him glitching all over the place and cowering in a warehouse?"  I was sure I missed something.  But then he starts glitching again in this episode.  So . . . emotions are his problem?  Ooooh, is this going to be like a Pinocchio/Blue Fairy thing?  Is Tech Boy going to become a REAL boy?  That's pure speculation there -- I don't recall anything about Tech Boy from the book after the episode 1, limo-from-hell scene.  But I LOVE what Bruce Langley is doing with the role of Tech Boy so I'm glad his role is continuing.  He was SUCH a douche-bag in the very first episode, it is genuinely shocking to me that I now feel sympathy for him and want him to overcome whatever is causing him to glitch.

Okay . . . WTF is Artifact 1?

And who was Mr/Mrs/Mr World talking to on the phone?  He seemed to be receiving marching order but I thought s/he was the top banana on team New Gods.

When Shadow and Laura finally talk the quick flashes from season 1 that they cut into the episode were well done -- a nice visual trick to remind us what these two meant to one another.  You know --how they felt back before she cheated on him with his best friend, then died, then came back as a re-animated corpse, then "died" again, then got resurrected via voodoo powered by Sweeney's love-infused blood.

You know . . . as I sit hear typing this I'm struggling to figure out how Laura found Shadow.  And when she DOES find him she make clear that she wasn't looking for Shadow -- she's just wants to know where to find Wednesday so she can kill him.  Which when you stop and think about it IS a bit of a "fuck you" to Shadow, but I guess they already had their parting-of-the-ways scene back in Cairo.

Meanwhile, back in Lakeside, it was good to see Shadow and Chad have a tiny bonding moment when Hinzelmann takes over the meeting.  That, more than anything else reassured me that he (Chad) really DOES believe that Shadow had nothing to do with the disappearance of the local girl.

Wait, Sam Blackcrow is Marguerite Olsen's half sister?  Okaaaay.

WTF is up with people stealing underwear in Laketown?  There are just SO many plot lines winding around this strange town.

WTF is up with Shadow painting the wall of his RENTAL unit (and choosing that horrible color)?  That was distractingly weird.  There better be a purpose behind all that.  If it turns out that it was just an excuse to allow Ricky Whittle to have a topless scene I will be disappointed (not that I don't appreciate the view.)

Danny Trejo as Mr. World is some interesting casting.  But, alas, all I can see is Machete!  Run, Laura!  Run!

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T Summer

T Summer

Reading your post and remarks about Laura and Shadow made me think, I guess Laura Moon's super strength  went with her back from the dead (but not really alive) status? So how is this hundred pound girl planning on killing Wednesday?  The only one she has on her teem is another mere mortal, Salim.

An aside: Most exciting scene to date for me was in S2 when Bilquist said to Laura Moon about her bloodlust for Wednesday, you better bring power when you go against that one. Laura said you seem pretty powerful, do you want to help me [kill him]? Bilquist said Thank you for the offer, it is a very tempting one. It ended with Bilquist saying I know how to find you. Most interested I've been in the whole series.

Second thought whirling around in my head... how does she just let that gold coin that used to be inside her keeping her here "alive" back on earth connected  to  Shadow (she could always see his light), just sit in a cardboard box? A Leprechaun who used to be a king's coin?  I'd keep it on my person.

I think Laura was only too happy to take any opportunity to see and talk to Shadow, he being the only one she could ask about his whereabouts... definetely not a fuck you, IMO. Once again, I hated the way Shadow threw her off when Marguerite was coming through the door. Their embrace seemed so sweet before that. After she asked Ibis, IDK who that leaves that might know where Wednesday is? Bilquist knows how to reach Laura Moon but I doubt that  it works both ways.

 

 

 

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LaMatadita

LaMatadita

(edited)

It was heartbreaking to watch Laura casually tell Salim to get over the Jinn, then immediately jump up to rescue Sweeney's ashes from falling off the table and cradle them protectively. That wasn't done out of a sense of obligation, that was just love, even if she is still understandably struggling to admit it (because if she admits that she loved him, she also has to admit that she lost him). To be honest, that storyline is one of the few I'm still invested in because it's been one of the more coherent and consistent narratives in the show.

I'm struggling a bit with how to adjust my expectations about Laura's storyline this season, though, because it seems like viewers are still being encouraged to invest in that relationship, which implies that there will be some kind of payoff that's more than just Laura "getting over it," as she's been encouraging Salim to do. Laura's character arc has larger, overarching themes about Laura being apathetic about life and continually self-sabotaging herself, but her relationship with Sweeney (and Shadow to a lesser extent) has basically been her main storyline/way of exploring these themes since he tracked her down to get his coin back, and that doesn't seem to have changed even with him gone.

Her storyline this season doesn't feel like it's about Laura learning that she's capable of love because she loved Sweeney, but about Laura admitting that she loves Sweeney. It's as if he's being presented as her soulmate in an epic ballad sort of way, to the point where they were even given a romantic theme song 4 or 5 episodes after he died. For the past 2 episodes, the box with his ashes has gotten the first close-up in nearly every scene it was in, serving as a constant reminder of both the person whose ashes are in the box and how important he is to Laura even now. Multiple characters, including a complete stranger in purgatory, have prodded her about how she felt about him. Ibis, the most apathetic character on the whole show, seemed both touched and awed by the idea that Sweeney had loved her and that his blood had brought her back to life, and Salim even brought it up again when Laura tried to avoid talking about it the first time. Even the things that Laura learned about herself in purgatory seemed to relate directly to her ability to love both herself and others and served to push her closer to admitting her feelings toward Sweeney. We're more than halfway through the season now and she's still somewhat in denial about those feelings, so even dragging it out for this long is placing further emphasis on the importance of their relationship. If all of this leads to nothing more than Laura screaming into the wind and throwing his ashes over a cliff, I'm going to be pretty annoyed that they spent an entire season getting there. If they'd actually been able to have a romantic relationship for a time, then spending this much time on her grieving process would make sense, but spending this much time on a relationship that tragically didn't even get a chance to happen doesn't make sense to me unless it's still going somewhere.

So there's this constant emphasis on his absence, his ashes, his coin, and Laura's feelings for him, all of which encourage viewers to continue to invest, and yet the actor keeps saying he's not coming back. It's hard to know if he's just trolling and will be making a reappearance, if the writers are just clueless about the expectations being created here and have no intention of bringing him back in any capacity, or if they're planning to just go with some kind of underwhelming plan B option involving CGI or a Sweeney-shaped silhouette. I just have no idea what my expectations should be at this point.

I didn't mean to make such a long post, but I recently caught up on the show after giving up halfway through S2, and like I said, this is the storyline I was able to stay invested in and follow all the way through. Their story makes sense to me, at least so far, even if I'm a little apprehensive of where they're going with it. The main plot has stalled out and lost its train of thought so many times that it's barely intelligible to me, and I've read the book!

Edited by LaMatadita
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T Summer

T Summer

No need to apologize for the lengthy posts! I for one am very interested to read other people's perspective, particularly  on Laura Moon's trajectory. It's one of the most enjoyable elements of the series for me. If it weren't for that and every single second Bilquist is on screen, I don't think I'd  still be watching.

I've wondered, did Laura love Sweeney? I don't necessarily think if Laura Moon were to see  him alive  when she was blasted back to  earth and found herself in the tomb... she'd hug him the way she hugged Shadow. I don't think if she saw Sweeney it would have deterred her for more than a few moments from going after Wednesday who she perceives as having ruined her relationship with Shadow. She'd just be making sure he could bring  the sword from his hoard. On the other hand we were shown at least one scene where they'd been alive and in each other's orbit before. I'm remembering the jail scene where they were talking to each other through the bars.

Stopped right here to rewatch the episode s1 e7, A Prayer For Mad Sweeney. 

Basically in the telling of Essie McGowan's   story  (as written by Ibis)  it is she who brings a certain Leprechaun and former King to the new world. Essie McGowan believed in all kinds of   magical creatures, especially Leprechauns. She kept belief in them alive through her   storytelling over her lifetime  and though she hadn't ever seen one, she  never stopped leaving them offerings of cream and bread and at one point a gold coin she'd been given by a lover. Days before her death sitting on the porch of the farm she'd inherited from her husband, Mad Sweeney walked up and said it was she who brought him here. She and a few others like her. He's doing tricks with his gold coin  and lamenting  this land has no time for magic; no place for faeries and such folk.  That's a   short version,  but they acknowledge the good  they'd done for one another. She'd been an indentured servant and from England to the new world and back and forth again and in trouble for thieving (at one point almost executed) and had to survive doing sexual favors before marrying and ultimately  becoming the proprietor of the farm.

Getting back to this juncture:  When Ibis  and Salim talked about Sweeney's love for her ultimately facilitating her  journey back to life by completing Baron Samedi's potion, IDK if it was romantic love she was feeling like she feels for Shadow?  Maybe more gratitude and regret that the opportunity  to express it was gone forever? Maybe not even that. I keep remembering Sweeney calling her the c-word over and over and IIRC it was  he who caused the car accident (and possibly Shadow being caught  executing Laura's perfect plan to grift the casino and being put in jail), all on Wednesday's orders. She's still driven by the rage she feels for Wednesday having had her killed and ruining her marriage, so IDK if she feels that much forgiveness for Sweeney just because he was fulfilling a debt he owed  Wednesday when he acted.

 I forget which episode it was, possibly also in season one where Laura Moon expressed her disillusionment with life when  one gets past their formative years and learns there is no Santa Claws, no Easter Bunny and no farm where old dogs go? She may not be able to slay Wednesday in the literal sense as a regular girl back among the living, but isn't it legions of non-beleivers like her that threaten The Old Gods right out of  existence?

 

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Joimiaroxeu

Joimiaroxeu

How did Laura not know Wednesday was Shadow's father?

The Buckeye State has a Norse underbelly.

Ricky Whittle's body. Goodness. I'm thinking he should probably avoid dancing in front of an audience though,  unless the music wasn't added until after that dancing scene was taped.

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LaMatadita

LaMatadita

On 2/27/2021 at 5:30 PM, T Summer said:

I've wondered, did Laura love Sweeney?

 

On 2/27/2021 at 5:30 PM, T Summer said:

IDK if it was romantic love she was feeling like she feels for Shadow? Maybe more gratitude and regret that the opportunity  to express it was gone forever?

That was never a question for me after the episode in New Orleans, which was the last time Laura and Sweeney saw each other. I think the show has been pretty clear that Laura convinced herself that she loved Shadow when she didn't, and convinced herself that she didn't love Sweeney when she did. Shadow was her puppy, he put her on a pedestal and worshipped her without truly seeing her, and she thought that was enough. Sweeney saw her for who she was, saw her at her absolute worst, and fell in love with her deeply enough to resurrect her from a pile of ash. Her interaction with Shadow in episode 6 this season felt completely mutually platonic to me. She has affection for him, but she is not in love with him, and as Samedi pointed out in New Orleans (the S2 episode that was all about exposing Laura's emotional truth), she never was. Sweeney and Laura's souls making love in a red voodoo haze in that same episode was pretty clearly not portrayed as hate sex or meaningless sex or friends-with-benefits sex, but as a way of expressing a deep and genuine emotional connection. The expression on her face in that scene was a combination of surprise, awe, and tenderness, and showing us that was the entire point of the love scene. We had already been told that Sweeney loved Laura through his dialogue with Brigitte, so if Laura's feelings were just platonic, it could have been left at that. The love scene was what they both wanted in their deepest selves, but in the light of day, all of their anger and baggage and self-loathing got in the way. Their spat right after that was the last time they saw each other, so it definitely seems like the writers (or at least Gaiman) wanted to make it clear that there were mutual feelings there before Sweeney died, and those feelings are part of what's motivating Laura's arc this season.

I also think the show has been pretty honest about how fucked up the details of that relationship are--he basically ruined her life and then killed her on Wednesday's orders. There was always a weird dynamic where she knew that and reminded him of it from time to time, but she also never really seemed to hold it against him because I think she understood that he deeply regretted it and was ashamed at the dishonorable things he did on Wednesday's orders, ashamed of his own lack of agency, etc. She could easily have seen him as an enemy, but I think she just saw him as someone else who'd been fucked over by Wednesday and was angry about it (just like she blames Wednesday for Sweeney's death, not Shadow). So Sweeney followed her around because he wanted his coin back, but over time his proximity to her helped him regain some of his humanity and his honor, and he clearly began to care more about helping her than getting his coin back. She let him stick around because he was going to try to find a way to resurrect her, but she was also lonely (being a corpse that grossed everyone out) and ended up liking him in spite of herself. (I think the scene in the flower field where she wanted to give up and he wouldn't let her was probably instrumental to her developing feelings.)

It's Sweeney that she has been tied to symbolically/thematically throughout the show--for example, as you mentioned, by having Emily Browning play Essie, someone who, in her younger years, had a lot of characteristics and details in common with Laura and was largely responsible for giving Sweeney a new life, of sorts, in America. That plus the scene in the flower field, the spiritual voodoo lovemaking, her looking for him in purgatory, his love-infused blood resurrecting her (and the way all of that came together in a sort-of-accidental-but-also-maybe-fateful kind of way), them having a romantic theme song now, multiple characters suggesting she has feelings for him, and her clutching his ashes protectively right after telling Salim to get over the Jinn, not to mention pairing her up with Salim, the other character who lost his love--those things are all romantic images and themes. But Laura had never truly been in love before, so she didn't see it for what it was, didn't value what she had until she lost it. I think that even now she's not sure that what she feels is really love because she's not sure what it's supposed to feel like and the person she might have felt it for is gone, and because it's mixed up with the guilt and shame she feels for pushing Sweeney away, and the rage she feels toward Wednesday for fucking up both of their lives and toward Sweeney for going off and getting himself killed and leaving her alone.

She also clearly feels a sense of obligation because she feels responsible for his death--in her mind, she viciously pushed away someone she cared about out of fear and self-loathing and goaded him into seeking his own death, and I think the last thing he ever said to her was that he hated Wednesday more than she would ever know. She has her life back now and could choose to walk away, but I think she's still filled with the same rage that she felt when she was dead plus some extra for Sweeney, and some part of her knows that until she purges all of that rage, until she avenges herself and Sweeney by killing Wednesday, nothing in her life will have value and meaning and hope. Trying to resurrect Sweeney now would be pointless because then she'd have to be like, "So yeah, Wednesday is still around fucking everything up for everyone." Normally I'm not a fan of the concept of vengeance or of vengeance storylines, but for Laura it makes a lot of sense. Killing Wednesday means avenging herself and Sweeney, finishing what Sweeney started, and ending a huge existential threat that looms over her and everyone she cares about. Once she does that, she can start to process what she feels for Sweeney and figure out who she wants to be and what she wants to do.

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T Summer

T Summer

First off, I so enjoy reading others' viewpoints even the ones I don't completely share! Maybe especially those.

I just wrote a whole long thing on the ep 7 thread about how much it bugs me that Laura doesn't feel the need to keep Sweeney's coin close to her,  as in on her person. Whether  wanting to keep  the only possession of someone you loved and lost  close...

...or on the basis of it's magical nature. It, infused with Laura's will   let her escape death and going into nothingness! So she could go on with her purpose of warning and protecting Shadow from Wednesday as  well as  trying to get him back. Even after it appeared Shadow would most likely never get back with Laura  she said she'd always protect him and watch out for him.

Also, the coin was powerful enough to change Sweeney's fate when he gave it away by mistake, so how is she not even curious to see what it would do for hers? especially when  she's preparing to go up against a thousand year old god and try and slay him? anyway, I guess I've beaten that horse dead. dead.

The scene in season 1 where the ice cream truck overturned and Laura / Dead Wife was laying in the road in pieces, coin visable where her torso was split open  left me with little doubt that Sweeney loved her, after  he picked her up and put her pieces back together. Also in New Orleans when Baron Samedi said the potion needed 2 drops of the blood of someone who loved her to complete it the writers certainly got it across whose blood it would be, even if not the when and how  of it.

I've tried to hold out hope she might get her desire fulfilled to get back with Shadow (despite much evidence to the contrary that it would ever happen), because of the extent it appeared  she'd have to really love him to want to to always keep him(his light) in sight, protect him and get him out from Wednesday's evil clutches with practically no thought to her own troubles (like coming apart at the seams) or the danger she was in. She already knew Wednesday is a god that had her smited.  Wednesday  went blithley on about his business when Mr. Town was torturing Shadow Moon  on the train, and he's dude's FATHER. To quote that guy in the movie Ray "That's cold." It's for this reason I don't view Laura as not knowing what love is. Anyone can proclaim their love and even feel romantic  loving feelings all bound up with  strong desire but thinking of someone else first and more importantly doing for someone one else with no regard for one's own well being is a whole other level IMHO.

When she appeared on the stool next to him in the pasty shop and Shadow recognized her voice, she seemed to almost blush and be coy and self aware which seemed the opposite of platonic to me. When they hugged it seemed like she had been aching for that for the  longest  time. It seemed like the first moment Shadow's mind wasn't necessarily on her betrayal of him with his best friend. I'm not contesting anything about your view... just stating how it came across to me watching it.

...but I must say it confused me when she said Shadow acts like xyz when he's in love, to Marguerite. That was practically like casting him off to another. WTF? That seemed very out of character.

 I didn't think about whether  Laura loved Sweeney until she learned from Shadow "Sweeney died last night"  as she tried to appear unmoved and then last thing as she carried his body off in search of a miracle from the Baron.  Before that it came across as  just enough affection or understanding  or whatever to spare him the same   blind rage she views Wednesday with, the being bent on his destruction to where she can think of little else. ...but romantic love? IDK.

 

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LaMatadita

LaMatadita

(edited)
On 3/3/2021 at 2:41 AM, T Summer said:

I just wrote a whole long thing on the ep 7 thread about how much it bugs me that Laura doesn't feel the need to keep Sweeney's coin close to her,  as in on her person.

Two things come to mind regarding this. One is the scene in episode 5 when Salim comes to talk to her when she's in the spot where Sweeney died. She gives him the box with the ashes, and he takes the coin out and looks at it. She then looks at Salim in this strange way, almost like she wants to snatch it back from him, but she stops herself and allows him to hold it because she knows Salim means no harm. All I could think of was that because that coin was a part of her for a long time and was the reason she even knew Sweeney, someone else putting their hands on it bothered her? The other thing is the fact that, as far as we know, she keeps it in the box with the ashes, and I assumed that's because she feels like it belongs with him. She also carries that box everywhere, so it's still with her at all times even if it's not in her pocket. I do see what you mean about her not trying to tap into it for some kind of advantage against Wednesday, but maybe she does plan to hang onto it and that was part of her confidence when she said she wasn't going to screw up on taking out Wednesday. Or maybe she doesn't want to use the coin on principal because she feels like she already kept it from Sweeney for long enough and wants to kill Wednesday on her own steam. Whatever the case, I'm definitely curious to see what kind of role it still has to play.

On 3/3/2021 at 2:41 AM, T Summer said:

I've tried to hold out hope she might get her desire fulfilled to get back with Shadow (despite much evidence to the contrary that it would ever happen), because of the extent it appeared  she'd have to really love him to want to to always keep him(his light) in sight, protect him and get him out from Wednesday's evil clutches with practically no thought to her own troubles (like coming apart at the seams) or the danger she was in. She already knew Wednesday is a god that had her smited.  Wednesday  went blithley on about his business when Mr. Town was torturing Shadow Moon  on the train, and he's dude's FATHER. To quote that guy in the movie Ray "That's cold." It's for this reason I don't view Laura as not knowing what love is. Anyone can proclaim their love and even feel romantic  loving feelings all bound up with  strong desire but thinking of someone else first and more importantly doing for someone one else with no regard for one's own well being is a whole other level IMHO.

I definitely think we are seeing her actions toward Shadow in a fundamentally different way, and maybe even almost flip-flopping how we view her feelings for Sweeney vs. her feelings towards Shadow. To me, it seemed like her following Shadow everywhere and wanting to protect him was more about how she felt about herself than how she felt about Shadow. She hated herself for betraying him because he loved her, and he's a good person with a good heart, and doing what she did to someone like that must mean that she's a terrible person who didn't even deserve his love. So trying to protect him gave her a purpose and made her feel like she could make up for her past actions. She cared about him, and I think she wanted to feel like she could be worthy of his love, and I think she even wanted to love him, because he's the sort of person that anyone should be able to love--I mean really, what kind of asshole doesn't love Shadow?!--but I don't think she was ever actually in love with him, no matter how much she wanted to be.

I think that was made very clear through her interaction with Samedi in New Orleans. Samedi tells her at dinner that the price she has to pay for the potion is truth. Later, when they're talking as he's making the potion, she laments that Shadow thought she hung the moon and she fucked it all up. Samedi tells her that she betrayed Shadow long before they took their marriage vows, and Laura is offended by this assertion. Samedi explains that she betrayed Shadow by telling him she never loved him in the first place, and then she takes a drag from her cigarette and shakes her head in a "can't argue with that" sort of way. Samedi then asks her what she's going to do when her "flesh warms for another" and what she will do with her "second chance," and then he comes closer to her and says, "For payment, I ask only for truth." They start having sex, and then it turns into the red voodoo soul sex with Sweeney, suggesting that Sweeney is who her flesh really wants to "warm" for these days and that her feelings for him are part of the truth Samedi asked for. The overall storytelling conceit in this episode was that Laura's inner truth was revealed through her behavior and her interactions with Samedi, and the part about Shadow was something she kind of already knew, but the part about Sweeney was something more subconscious that she hadn't really let herself give in to or think about in a purposeful way. I just don't think the death loa who expected her to pay for his services with honesty was off the mark. She entered into a contract with him that required her to be honest, and if their exchange had not been true, he wouldn't have given her that potion.

I'm pretty sure there was also another scene, maybe in the first season, where someone pointed out that she hadn't loved Shadow when she was alive, and she said something long the lines of "Nope, but I must love him now because I see his light everywhere I go." It seemed implied to me that her seeing his light was happening for some kind of supernatural reason that no one really understood, but she interpreted it as "Well it must mean I'm finally in love with him and he's my purpose." (Personally, I think the coin may have been recognizing and responding to Shadow and driving Laura towards him, because of the line where Sweeney says he should never have been able to give the coin to Shadow in the first place because it's the sort of powerful magical thing that would only allow itself to be given to someone important like the "King of America." We'll see!)

Anyway, Laura was JUST starting to realize that she had feelings for Sweeney, revealed through the voodoo sex, and then she got scared and self-sabotaged and pushed him away, and he went off and got himself speared through the chest. It's got to be hard to sort out how you feel about someone that you'd just realized was actually really important to you, maybe even someone you were falling in love with, before they got killed in a way that felt like it was your own fault. It definitely seems like the writers are concerned with Laura figuring out her feelings towards Sweeney because there are just too many elements of the story this season that address it. Both Brigitte and a complete stranger in purgatory thought she might have had feelings for him, the show created a special song just for Laura and Sweeney this season that contained the words "Can I go on without you?" (and they've used the song more than once), Ibis was awed by the power of love, she won't let his ashes out of her sight, and Salim seems very much aware that Laura may have some complicated non-platonic feelings for Sweeney but knows better than to try to force her to talk about it. I don't think that the show would be dragging out the nature of Laura's feelings for a dead character for what seems to be an entire season if the answer is just going to be, "Meh, he was alright, but I didn't love him" and that's going to be that. 

On 3/3/2021 at 2:41 AM, T Summer said:

When she appeared on the stool next to him in the pasty shop and Shadow recognized her voice, she seemed to almost blush and be coy and self aware which seemed the opposite of platonic to me. When they hugged it seemed like she had been aching for that for the  longest  time. It seemed like the first moment Shadow's mind wasn't necessarily on her betrayal of him with his best friend. I'm not contesting anything about your view... just stating how it came across to me watching it.

...but I must say it confused me when she said Shadow acts like xyz when he's in love, to Marguerite. That was practically like casting him off to another. WTF? That seemed very out of character.

Laura obviously cares about Shadow and was happy to see him, and I think she hugged him out of genuine affection and, as you pointed out, relief that they'd been able to have a relatively normal interaction (the subject matter was intense, but the interaction itself was pretty positive). She was happy that they were on good terms and wanted to express that, and I thought it was a beautiful moment. But I think she also knows that there is no way to undo what happened and anything romantic between them is long gone. When he pushed her away, she looked momentarily hurt, as if he was rejecting her affection the way he'd done when she was dead, but then she very quickly made the connection that Shadow was into this woman and played wingman for him. I thought it was sweet, and I thought it was a clear sign of both of them moving on amicably. She cares about him and wants him to be happy, but she doesn't want to be with him herself.

Despite all of my attempts at persuasion, I do understand wanting Laura and Shadow to be together--sometimes you just want what you want. For you, it seems like Shadow was and still is her true love, and she's just lugging Sweeney around out of a feeling of obligation and a hope that she can resurrect him and get the spear back. To me, it seems like the show has made it abundantly clear that she didn't love Shadow and was falling in love with Sweeney, but it was ruined by both of them being stubborn, angry assholes, and now she's a sad, confused mess who is avoiding dealing with her feelings and focusing on the one thing that seems crystal clear to her--Wednesday has to go.

Edited by LaMatadita
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