S15.E04: Atomic Monsters

[Shannonsspirit]

4 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

And Sam shot Chuck... just saying....

Like I said...  this works for Sam only.

I get why Dean in the end could not shoot Jack. That was a different thing entirely. It was about Vengeance. And they had shown enough to tell us that Dean loved Jack like a son.  Sam has done crazy stuff without a soul too... and on demon blood... and Dean had defended himself with the MoC which we have been told is so much worse than anything Sam ever did!!! and Dean saved Sam's life in season nine by allowing Gadreel have access to him, Sam said yes but... IT'S DEAN'S FAULT!!! and it's worse than anything Sam did whilst soulless or hopped up on demon blood. I know this because I have been told it by fans a zillion times. 

And of course Dean feels this guilt thing.

Back to the point at hand... it was a badly written line. Season 14 after Ouroboros was horrid. Sam shooting Chuck was the dumbest thing to do literally. 

I think Chuck was bad all along. He is just obvious about it now. Explain to me what about season 11 made him seem like a  good guy.

What about Fan Fiction. Showing up for that was a shitty move imo.

I suppose it depends on how you perceive him in season 11 and whether on not you accept his explanation to Dean. From a parent's perspective, teaching and punishing is only so effective. Mankind inherited this planet. To grow, they must accept responsibility for it and each other. Wars are made by man. With the exception of a relentless aggressor where war is necessary, most hostilities can be resolved. Consider disease. Hygiene and vaccinations, as well as prevention, remedy most; especially the plague with penicillin. Consider demon deals to advance power, money, desire. Mankind needs to accept responsibility and work together for the common good, f they don't want to be pets or perceive themselves as helpless victims full of blame for others.

Souls and free will have been dominant themes throughout Supernatural. How does an evil, cruel God even conceive of the idea of a soul let alone create one. A soul os a moral compass, a conscience. Empathy, compassion, guilt and remorse to balance the more selfish behavior inherent in free will. Free will provides option so that the bearer has true choice. The soul provides direction. Furthermore, why create a soul if there is no free will?

Evil Chuck is a contradiction, in and of itself and completely undermined the essence of the show and the, some good some bad, choices of Sam and Dean. They are pointless in their own story.  And whether they "gain" free will in the end, doesn't matter. They always had it, until it was taken away by the showrunner.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Shannonsspirit

[Demian]

On 11/7/2019 at 9:08 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

Secondly (and utterly shallow) why can't Jensen wear the scruff/beard all the time?! OMG, he was smoking hot in that first scene!

Late to this episode, but oh, yeah:  He looks way better with facial hair than I thought he would.

[Dobian]

The hallway fight scene was a total ripoff of Daredevil, but it was still fun and choreographed well.  Chuck is just an annoying twerp of a villain.  I hate that they made him the final Big Bad of this series.  You can see the plot twist coming from a mile away where his sister is going to swoop in and save the day for Sam and Dean at some point.  The monster of the week plot was good and surprisingly touching.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Dobian

[Whimsy]

I just had to remove about a page’s worth of posts that were rehashing events from like 5 years ago. Remember, this is the topic for THIS episode only. 

[The Companion]

Loop

On 11/7/2019 at 9:51 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

I have to say that even though I thoroughly hate this entire Chuck storyline, I think Rob Benedict is a really good actor and also cute as a bug's ear. I actually chuckled (no pun intended) over his Leviathan pride.

I feel like he is so very mustache twirling because the actor is so likeable. It is also making him a frustrating bad guy for me. 

On 11/8/2019 at 5:54 AM, PAForrest said:

Best part of the entire episode, of the entire season so far, was Jensen's teaser, hands down. Beautifully choreographed, beautifully shot and directed. And BENNY!!!!!! Jensen loves that character, and loves the relationship between Dean and Benny. Thumbs up for the get - brothers in arms to the end. I really do hope you see Benny on the other side when the time comes, Dean. SOB!

 

I honestly didn't love Benny the way most people do, but that opening scene was fantastic. 

On 11/8/2019 at 8:14 AM, Smad said:

So what does this show tell us about God?

Don't date God, he will smite your family (and you along with it probably).

Don't be God's sibling, he will drop you in a box for all eternity.

Don't be one of the four son's of God, you will get one of his bad personality ticks as a trademark which will be your downfall and death.

Don't be his favorite writing pets, he will ruin your life from birth. Along with the lives of your family, friends, associates...basically everyone you know.

"Don't date a guy who thinks he's God." would have been some pretty stellar advice for many of my friends when we were in our 20s. 😆

On 11/8/2019 at 1:17 PM, Bergamot said:

I think one reason that this episode did not work for me as well as it did for some was that I felt the show wanted me to sympathize at the end with Billy's parents, and I didn't. I did feel for Billy himself; it was brave of him to admit that he could not control his bloodlust, and to offer himself to be killed before he could hurt anyone else.

But I did not like at all the way that the parents were presented as people to be sympathized with -- and even admired? -- for what they did. The writer of the episode made this very clear by having Sam compare himself and Dean to the father, and say that they would have done the same thing for Jack. (I would like to think that what they meant here was that they would die for someone they loved. Which is not exactly a big revelation.)

Anyway, to die for your child? That's something I could understand. But to kill innocent people for them? When the father was telling Dean that only someone with children would understand what he did, I was thinking, how about seeing how the parents of the dead girl feel about that?

I thought that the parents were as monstrous, in their own way, as their son. They knew that their son had killed the first cheerleader, and chopped up her dead body to cover up his crime. They kidnapped an innocent girl and were draining her of her blood in order to feed him. When they were found out, the mother was ready to kill the Winchesters in order to cover up what was going on. And in the midst of all this, they were still totally focused on getting their son into Yale, as if that goal made this all okay. Sure, just wash the blood off your hands, have another glass of wine, and get back to doing whatever it takes to get your son into an Ivy League school.

But gee, what else were they, as devoted parents, supposed to do? I don't know, but not what they did. Sorry, but this part of the story bugged me, especially because the writer made a point of the comparison to Sam and Dean.

Agreed. They were awful and the idea that Sam identified with them instead of the kid was bizarre. 

I also hated the line Dean had about someone having a fetish.

On 11/9/2019 at 2:23 PM, Shannonsspirit said:

I'm not sure I understand the criticisms of Sam's depression. For both Sam and Dean a good day is when no one dies and they get the monster before it gets them. That's a hell of a life. They have lost their Mom, and yes, Jack, Rowena, Ketch within days and are faced with the (absurd and I despise it) understanding that God is playing with their lives. They were beset upon by the opening of Hell and busy closing it.

Then, trying to focus on a routine case, Dean recalls to mind that Sam wanted this simple life. Yet, it is not so simple. Disturbed self-centered parents are committing horrible acts to feed their vampire son, while putting his chance to go to Yale above the memorial of one of his victims...his girlfriend. All that culminates in them having to kill the boy, at his request.

If Sam wants to lament, after all that, while Dean masks his pain with alcohol, they should.

I was honestly just happy to see some fallout from having to kill Rowena (RAAAAAGE). It was a lot better than mentioning her death in passing like poor Eileen. I also don't find it inconsistent that Sam was able to drum up optimism that faded when he had to stab Rowena. 

 

On 11/10/2019 at 7:44 PM, S Cook Productions said:

Isn’t Garth still in their trunk? Lol. 

Ohhhhh. That explains why Dean put the God Gun in the unsecured glove compartment despite the fact that Baby had been stolen with dangerous artifacts not that long ago and he would he particularly aware of the need to secure a one-of-a-kind weapon like that. 

 

I think I was still in too much of a shitty mood from the last episode to get the same level of enjoyment as everyone else on this one. I was happy to have a monster, but this one just didn't work for me

To focus on the good stuff:

I actually liked Becky's rehabilitation (though I am still irritated about the need for it and it was a little hard to 180 on her). If she is going to be a stand in for the fans, I like that they made her a healthy and creative one. I liked the ackowledgement that what she was doing was real writing. I liked that her obsession was reframed in a more healthy light. I wanted to look at her tiny figurines and hear about why she loved the stories. I also choose to read the entire episode as an acknowledgement that the writers realize they suck and the fans are doing a better job. 😆

I liked the opening sequence. It was creepy and moody and well done. Maybe it was one of Becky's AUs, since it was so much more compelling than the rest of the episode. Ok, sorry. Focusing on the good and not the snark.

Gold star for trying to shock us with the twist? I thought the kid sacrficing himself was actually fairly compelling. I did find it weird that none of the three members of the family, upon discovery that someone knew about vampires, didn't ask about a cure or controlling it. 

I know the BM is somewhat controversial, but I liked Sam opening up about his headspace. I also like that they worked together on this one.