S21.E05: At Midnight in Manhattan

[ChristiKRN]

I thought this was the best episode of the season to date.  There was a variety of victims (although they couldn’t resist having the rich white girl as 1 of the cases) and good detective work.  I enjoyed Fin’s interactions with the son and Kat’s Interactions with the transgender victim.  I think Kat is going to need to bring it down a few notches ; it’s inevitable that she is going to massively screw up at some point.  It was probably a more realistic portrayal of a Normal day in the life of a squad than usual, ie working on multiple cases at once rather than just focusing on 1 case.  Benson also needs to remember that she’s not Carisi’s boss anymore and Carisi needs to remind her of this.  It was inappropriate for her to order Carisi to go along with Kat to the country club.  I’m still having a hard time hearing him referred to as “Mr. Carisi” rather than “Detective Carisi”.

It’s not a shock to figure out which part of the episode I disliked: Rollins’ meltdown.  Obviously fatigue played a part in it but a 40+ year old woman sounding like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum was ridiculous.  She came across as a whiny, selfish shrew.  Instead of just snapping about how overworked they were since he left, she made it about him leaving her and her alone.  The look he gave her made me think that he was thinking to himself: “thank God she turned me down when I tried to hook up with her”.  Also noted that she picked up and promptly hung up on a caller/possible victim/witness so she could continue with her tantrum.  

I did get a laugh about not using the word “quiet”.   As a RN, the   Q word is banned. Nice to know nurses are not the only superstitious work groups out there .  

[tennisgurl]

Alright lets get this out of the way first: The Rollins freak out at Carisi in the middle of the station some one of the most second hand embarrassment I've seen on TV in a long time. She sounded like an angry toddler pouting about their mom taking their favorite toy away, not a professional detective! Like, of Carisi just listened when you talked and said you were happy for him? Oh, what an idiot to listen to the words she said. That was absolutely ridiculous and out of nowhere and both unprofessional and mean and nasty to her supposed friend. Really took me out of the episode. 

On to other things, the episode itself was actually pretty good, it was a mice change of pace having the ticking clock and the three cases and everyone struggling to keep up with all three of them. It was also realistic that not all of them had happy endings, or at least ambiguous or bittersweet endings. The acting from the guest stars was good as well, even if some of them played a bit broad (mostly the rich guy, who was practically cackling and twirling his mustache) it was mostly solid. It was also great to see a more diverse set of victims, even if they HAD to get that pretty rich women in, but at least this time, her being from a rich family was actually plot relevant. It was a nice change of pace from the never ending parade of attractive rich white women crying into St. Olivia's arms. The stories were all interesting and seemed pretty straight forward, no over the top moralizing or soap opera plot twists. Just detective work dealing with sexual assault.

The ways that different victims are treated by the system was interesting, and honestly might have been a cool idea in and of itself. Do something like this, but instead of doing the ticking clock and overworked weekend, have three or four victims who are all from different demographics (race, gender, class, etc) and see go through their whole experiences as sexual assault victims trying to navigate the system, and how their experiences differ. 

"Sit down Gilligan" As always, Fin is the best. 

[dttruman]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Do something like this, but instead of doing the ticking clock and overworked weekend, have three or four victims who are all from different demographics (race, gender, class, etc) and see go through their whole experiences as sexual assault victims trying to navigate the system, and how their experiences differ. 

A brilliant idea, but how would you fit that into 10 minutes? You wouldn't dare ask Benson to give up some of her valuable 35 minutes are you?

All kidding a side and I am not trying to be funny, because after that major blowup by Rollins, I am willing to bet they'll (writers and the producers) address the situation and Rollins will be apologetic and sarcastically blame it on "that time of the month". If Carisi was the one to say this, it would come out insulting and patronizing.

Edited October 28, 2019 by dttruman

[spunky]

Joelle was the typical domestic violence victim, who was too afraid of her abuser to really do something about it. Like most dv victims she blamed herself for the abuse and the eventual rape. If all it took was for a cop to play the 911 tape of the victim’s child screaming to wake them up, there would be less DV cases. Didn’t Joelle’s sister have a bus or train to operate instead of trying to obstruct a police investigation? 

The uber victim was a play on the case from either north or South Carolina. If her parents weren’t breathing down her neck she might not have identified the wrong person in the first place. Sanjay talking about he did it because his father lost his taxi medallion was just stupid. The transgered victim who knew Kat, was the worst of all. Deciding that it was better for him to her off than to seek justice for being raped shows that she has no self respect. 

Really Rollins!? You’re upset because Carisi took the ADA position and didn’t remain glued to your hip? I loved Carisi snapping at Benson and Rollins instead of being a yes man.

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, spunky said:

Joelle was the typical domestic violence victim, who was too afraid of her abuser to really do something about it. Like most dv victims she blamed herself for the abuse and the eventual rape. If all it took was for a cop to play the 911 tape of the victim’s child screaming to wake them up, there would be less DV cases. Didn’t Joelle’s sister have a bus or train to operate instead of trying to obstruct a police investigation? 

Would you say that most typical DV victims show a reluctance type attitude when offered help? Because here, IMO it seemed like Joelle was showing a lot of animosity to the detectives, rather than downplaying the incident and saying "thanks, but no thanks" for the assistance. I am still trying to figure out the significance of the sister's attitude.  I am starting to think there was some major DV issues concerning their parents when they were growing up.

[spunky]

4 hours ago, dttruman said:

Would you say that most typical DV victims show a reluctance type attitude when offered help? Because here, IMO it seemed like Joelle was showing a lot of animosity to the detectives, rather than downplaying the incident and saying "thanks, but no thanks" for the assistance. I am still trying to figure out the significance of the sister's attitude.  I am starting to think there was some major DV issues concerning their parents when they were growing up.

It's usually fear of the unknown, fear for their safety. A lot of times the abused is isolated from family and friends and has no one to turn to. I once worked for a Social Work supervisor who was in an abusive relationship and came to work everyday making everyone else's lives a living hell, because that was the only control she had.

As for Joelle it seems as though she was originally scared that he would retaliate if she said something. Add her sister who thinks child support is more important than her sister's safety and we have a reluctant witness.

[spunky]

23 hours ago, ChristiKRN said:

I thought this was the best episode of the season to date.  There was a variety of victims (although they couldn’t resist having the rich white girl as 1 of the cases) and good detective work.  I enjoyed Fin’s interactions with the son and Kat’s Interactions with the transgender victim.  I think Kat is going to need to bring it down a few notches ; it’s inevitable that she is going to massively screw up at some point.  It was probably a more realistic portrayal of a Normal day in the life of a squad than usual, ie working on multiple cases at once rather than just focusing on 1 case.  Benson also needs to remember that she’s not Carisi’s boss anymore and Carisi needs to remind her of this.  It was inappropriate for her to order Carisi to go along with Kat to the country club.  I’m still having a hard time hearing him referred to as “Mr. Carisi” rather than “Detective Carisi”.

It’s not a shock to figure out which part of the episode I disliked: Rollins’ meltdown.  Obviously fatigue played a part in it but a 40+ year old woman sounding like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum was ridiculous.  She came across as a whiny, selfish shrew.  Instead of just snapping about how overworked they were since he left, she made it about him leaving her and her alone.  The look he gave her made me think that he was thinking to himself: “thank God she turned me down when I tried to hook up with her”.  Also noted that she picked up and promptly hung up on a caller/possible victim/witness so she could continue with her tantrum.  

I did get a laugh about not using the word “quiet”.   As a RN, the   Q word is banned. Nice to know nurses are not the only superstitious work groups out there .  

In Social Work we try to avoid the q word too.

[dttruman]

16 hours ago, spunky said:

It's usually fear of the unknown, fear for their safety. A lot of times the abused is isolated from family and friends and has no one to turn to. I once worked for a Social Work supervisor who was in an abusive relationship and came to work everyday making everyone else's lives a living hell, because that was the only control she had.

As for Joelle it seems as though she was originally scared that he would retaliate if she said something. Add her sister who thinks child support is more important than her sister's safety and we have a reluctant witness.

Like I have told other regular commenters here, I don't have your experience or your education, so I want to say thank you, because your comments are informative and helpful to at least me, anyway.

[spunky]

11 hours ago, dttruman said:

Like I have told other regular commenters here, I don't have your experience or your education, so I want to say thank you, because your comments are informative and helpful to at least me, anyway.

You're most welcome. Happy to help whenever I can. I've learned that sometimes life experience is a lot better than what we've been taught in the classroom.

Edited October 29, 2019 by spunky

[SarahPrtr]

On 10/30/2019 at 9:22 AM, spunky said:

You're most welcome. Happy to help whenever I can. I've learned that sometimes life experience is a lot better than what we've been taught in the classroom.

Especially when it comes to a job like nursing and teaching!!  You can't beat practical skills learnt by dealing with real people!

[spunky]

5 hours ago, SarahPrtr said:

Especially when it comes to a job like nursing and teaching!!  You can't beat practical skills learnt by dealing with real people!

So true. If I didn’t have any practical skills I wouldn’t have survived five years in Social Work.

[SarahPrtr]

On 10/31/2019 at 11:13 PM, spunky said:

So true. If I didn’t have any practical skills I wouldn’t have survived five years in Social Work.

Wait, so you're an RN and a social worker?  WOW!

[dttruman]

16 hours ago, ShepardRahl said:

Benson reacting to them was both hilarious and cringy to me. She goes out there to yell at them for screaming about their issues while she's on the phone with really important person while both not leaving the phone on her desk or covering it while she yells at them. So really important person can hear everything anyway.

Just watched that seen again. Benson said she was on the phone with the deputy chief, when the argument was going on. Do those I-phones have hold or mute buttons, because she may have activated it (or them) right before she confronted Carisi and Rollins?

I also noticed that Rollins pulled a cliche "wife to husband" type remark (I hope I am not stereotyping here), similar to "If you don't know what's wrong I am not going to tell you"

Carisi: (to Rollins) You said that you were happy (with him being gone)

Rollins: (to Carisi) And you believe me (Sarcasm)?

Carisi: (just looked confused and/or frustrated)

[spunky]

17 hours ago, SarahPrtr said:

Wait, so you're an RN and a social worker?  WOW!

Nope. Just a lowly Social Worker

[SarahPrtr]

1 hour ago, spunky said:

Nope. Just a lowly Social Worker

NO, NO, NONONONO!!!  You guys are amazing!!!

[spunky]

17 hours ago, SarahPrtr said:

NO, NO, NONONONO!!!  You guys are amazing!!!

Thank you 😊 

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, spunky said:

20 hours ago, SarahPrtr said:

NO, NO, NONONONO!!!  You guys are amazing!!!

Thank you 😊 

SVU must not think you guys are amazing, otherwise they would have more social worker characters on the show. I guess all the obsessive fans of Benson will encourage their offspring to be overzealous obtrusive SVU type police officers and deter them from a social worker's profession

[spunky]

1 hour ago, dttruman said:

SVU must not think you guys are amazing, otherwise they would have more social worker characters on the show. I guess all the obsessive fans of Benson will encourage their offspring to be overzealous obtrusive SVU type police officers and deter them from a social worker's profession

The thing is that some police officers do not respect us. Even though we go into unsafe situations without any weapons or police escorts. Well at least here in NYC. 

[SarahPrtr]

5 minutes ago, spunky said:

The thing is that some police officers do not respect us. Even though we go into unsafe situations without any weapons or police escorts. Well at least here in NYC. 

That is unfortunately true.  A lot of cops regard social/welfare workers as people who slow their work down in catching the perp.  But what about the people who have been attacked?  They need help more than the criminals.  Like Munch once said about SVU, that he found working in homicide easier to deal with because they're already dead, but it's the live ones who rip your heart out. 

[spunky]

10 hours ago, SarahPrtr said:

That is unfortunately true.  A lot of cops regard social/welfare workers as people who slow their work down in catching the perp.  But what about the people who have been attacked?  They need help more than the criminals.  Like Munch once said about SVU, that he found working in homicide easier to deal with because they're already dead, but it's the live ones who rip your heart out. 

You are absolutely right 

[ShepardRahl]

On 11/2/2019 at 12:21 PM, dttruman said:

Do those I-phones have hold or mute buttons, because she may have activated it (or them) right before she confronted Carisi and Rollins?

Right. I didn't think about that.

On 11/2/2019 at 12:21 PM, dttruman said:

I also noticed that Rollins pulled a cliche "wife to husband" type remark (I hope I am not stereotyping here), similar to "If you don't know what's wrong I am not going to tell you"

I hate this shit. If you don't tell me what's wrong I'm not going to play some bullshit guessing games with you about it. Thankfully my wife doesn't do that crap. If something bothers her she tells me and I love her for that. Even if it's some piddly crap that she knows I'll get irritated about because it's stupid. She still tells me. Having to play these dumb guessing games just make the problem fester and get worse, because now the woman is getting irritated that the guy isn't "paying enough attention to her". Ugh!

[Joe Hellandback]

1. Good lord, detectives who are dropping from exhaustion and have more cases than they can handle, at last some realism on the series, Rollins just desperate to go home to her kids. 

2. Okay I get the vibe from the new girl that she's either going to cross the line big time or she's going to be like Dani Beck and decide she can't work SVU.

3. Where does Rollins get off criticizing Carisi for doing what was right for his career? Just like Amaro he did something right for himself and her attitude that he should have known what she meant means she shouldn't be working for SVU.

4. I actually described a storyline quite similar to this in the eps you'd like to see thread? Not to mention the whole Q word thing?

5. Nice to see Carisi work the cases, his attitude different now he's on he DA's end.

6. Oh you cringed when they started doing the ID procedure in front of the parents, very realistic how she picked the wrong guy.

7. I wasn't quite sure about the whole Uber thing, the dad's story was tragic but what about it made the son rape?

8. Is a man beating on trans prostitutes because he's embarrassed about being impotent really a sex crime? Want to bet we see this guy again?

9. Some nice stuff with Finn and the battered wife, he got more screen time and the chance to shine this ep.

10.  Good lord, for once Benson's 'bomb run' didn't work?

11. Some nice scenes with the trans hooker, be nice if she became a recurring character. 

12. I think the end result was very realistic, the trans hooker did what was best for her and the battered wife possibly the same, the pretty young white girl gets justice as any jury would have eaten her up and her rapist was too dumb to ask for a lawyer.  

8/10 best ep in a long time

On 10/25/2019 at 3:30 AM, dttruman said:

Wow, the investigations of these three cases are going 100mph and then the soap opera outburst takes place.

But I liked that, it showed she was human.

[Joe Hellandback]

On 10/25/2019 at 3:30 AM, dttruman said:

Wow, the investigations of these three cases are going 100mph and then the soap opera outburst takes place.

But it took place BECAUSE the investigations were going 100MPH?

[Joe Hellandback]

On 10/25/2019 at 5:42 AM, wknt3 said:

The Good:
The story. While it wasn't perfect by any means, it was what the show needs to be doing at this point - trying to shake up the storytelling a bit and give us some variety. Also it was nice that it was focused almost entirely on the case with minimal personal drama aside from the half-assed confrontation over Carisi abandoning Rollins. Plus it was nice to see them actually pull off some nuance.
Fin! He actually got some really good Fin snark for the first time this season, as well as some good material for Ice-T and he continued his invaluable work as the voice of the viewer. Yes please don't play the mommy card! Fin makes everything better - add him to the scene and they even figure out how to write the new girl like a believable human being instead of a trope! I do wish that they would have allowed him to be the one to tell Rollins to chill, but I guess that's a bridge too far.
Diversity! It was refreshing to see both victims and perps coming from a range of socio-economic backgrounds. And to see that sexually based offenses come in a variety of forms.
Carisi - with the exception of the aforementioned squabble with Rollins.
Benson. Boy it feels weird putting her in this section. She actually spent a lot of time acting as a CO instead of a detective, And they treated her like the lead in an ensemble instead of treating everyone else as minor players in her story,
The guest cast. Back up to the show's usual high standard. Or maybe it's just that's when you have actual material with more than an inch of depth you can actually do something with it. In any case the child actor especially was excellent.
The promo for next week looks good. Which can be deceptive of course, but at least it looks like we're going to keep getting a variety of cases and stories,

The Bad:
Rollins. She was just annoying throughout the entire episode. At least with everything going on this week they didn't spend a lot of time dwelling on her nonsense except for the big blowup.
They didn't quite stick the landing with the transgender victim. This might be unfairly punishing a really good episode for the sins of past bad episodes, and I understand what they were going for, but it left a bad taste in my mouth that she was bought off. So the pretty rich white cis-women always come through in the end and pursue justice no matter how unsympathetic or stupid their behavior is, but the marginalized and persecuted minority can't be counted on? Or maybe it was just that her case wasn't personally handled by St. Benson of Manhattan? I don't think that was the intent and we need more of these sorts of endings, but given what has come before I think they should have maybe switched things up a bit. Maybe found a way to have the rich and connected jerks be the ones to drop the charges?

Overall this was actually good and not just on the curve. Probably the best episode since the great run at the beginning of Season 17. It's obviously not a sustainable formula, and the multiple cases means that they can gloss over some of the structural problems that are still there, but it's encouraging.

But I thought that was realistic, a jury would just love this pretty young well spoken white girl who was assaulted by a stranger (a FOREIGN stranger!), a trans prostitute attacked by a rough trick wouldn't elicit the same sympathy. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On 10/26/2019 at 1:44 PM, dttruman said:

She was no helpful support for her sister. Some here like yourself have said that this show is about women can do things, but this wife's sister was OK with her getting beat up, just as long as the money came in. Where is the empowerment there?

For what it's worth, I thought the actor playing the beat up wife was very good.

Depends on your view, would it be right to deprive the kid of his dad and have him and his mum out on the street?

On 10/26/2019 at 11:10 AM, dttruman said:

I don't know much about a detective's life at the office, but I'm assuming that their work days  are not normally  9 to 5. So I'd say they probably keep a change of clothes in their locker or some place at work.

But since this is one of their better episodes in a long time, I am willing to over look it.

They should work shifts with other detectives to cover night duty but this is TV where one team takes everything. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On 10/28/2019 at 12:55 AM, ChristiKRN said:

I thought this was the best episode of the season to date.  There was a variety of victims (although they couldn’t resist having the rich white girl as 1 of the cases) and good detective work.  I enjoyed Fin’s interactions with the son and Kat’s Interactions with the transgender victim.  I think Kat is going to need to bring it down a few notches ; it’s inevitable that she is going to massively screw up at some point.  It was probably a more realistic portrayal of a Normal day in the life of a squad than usual, ie working on multiple cases at once rather than just focusing on 1 case.  Benson also needs to remember that she’s not Carisi’s boss anymore and Carisi needs to remind her of this.  It was inappropriate for her to order Carisi to go along with Kat to the country club.  I’m still having a hard time hearing him referred to as “Mr. Carisi” rather than “Detective Carisi”.

It’s not a shock to figure out which part of the episode I disliked: Rollins’ meltdown.  Obviously fatigue played a part in it but a 40+ year old woman sounding like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum was ridiculous.  She came across as a whiny, selfish shrew.  Instead of just snapping about how overworked they were since he left, she made it about him leaving her and her alone.  The look he gave her made me think that he was thinking to himself: “thank God she turned me down when I tried to hook up with her”.  Also noted that she picked up and promptly hung up on a caller/possible victim/witness so she could continue with her tantrum.  

I did get a laugh about not using the word “quiet”.   As a RN, the   Q word is banned. Nice to know nurses are not the only superstitious work groups out there .  

But the whole point of the ep was how well the justice system works for the rich pretty white girl with influential parents, not so much for other folks.  

On 10/28/2019 at 5:40 AM, tennisgurl said:

Alright lets get this out of the way first: The Rollins freak out at Carisi in the middle of the station some one of the most second hand embarrassment I've seen on TV in a long time. She sounded like an angry toddler pouting about their mom taking their favorite toy away, not a professional detective! Like, of Carisi just listened when you talked and said you were happy for him? Oh, what an idiot to listen to the words she said. That was absolutely ridiculous and out of nowhere and both unprofessional and mean and nasty to her supposed friend. Really took me out of the episode. 

On to other things, the episode itself was actually pretty good, it was a mice change of pace having the ticking clock and the three cases and everyone struggling to keep up with all three of them. It was also realistic that not all of them had happy endings, or at least ambiguous or bittersweet endings. The acting from the guest stars was good as well, even if some of them played a bit broad (mostly the rich guy, who was practically cackling and twirling his mustache) it was mostly solid. It was also great to see a more diverse set of victims, even if they HAD to get that pretty rich women in, but at least this time, her being from a rich family was actually plot relevant. It was a nice change of pace from the never ending parade of attractive rich white women crying into St. Olivia's arms. The stories were all interesting and seemed pretty straight forward, no over the top moralizing or soap opera plot twists. Just detective work dealing with sexual assault.

The ways that different victims are treated by the system was interesting, and honestly might have been a cool idea in and of itself. Do something like this, but instead of doing the ticking clock and overworked weekend, have three or four victims who are all from different demographics (race, gender, class, etc) and see go through their whole experiences as sexual assault victims trying to navigate the system, and how their experiences differ. 

"Sit down Gilligan" As always, Fin is the best. 

I liked the scene with Carisi and the judge too, we haven't had enough of those lately. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On 11/4/2019 at 2:21 AM, SarahPrtr said:

That is unfortunately true.  A lot of cops regard social/welfare workers as people who slow their work down in catching the perp.  But what about the people who have been attacked?  They need help more than the criminals.  Like Munch once said about SVU, that he found working in homicide easier to deal with because they're already dead, but it's the live ones who rip your heart out. 

And the dead can't withdraw their allegations? I think one of the problems is that the modern police force is drawn more and more into social work situations (by some estimates the British police spend 70-80% of their time on non-crime matters these days) and they resent it, that other's responsibilities are being handed off on them.  

Edited January 8, 2020 by Joe Hellandback

[dttruman]

9 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

On 10/26/2019 at 8:44 AM, dttruman said:

She was no helpful support for her sister. Some here like yourself have said that this show is about women can do things, but this wife's sister was OK with her getting beat up, just as long as the money came in. Where is the empowerment there?

For what it's worth, I thought the actor playing the beat up wife was very good.

Depends on your view, would it be right to deprive the kid of his dad and have him and his mum out on the street?

I think it's more about the circumstances. A kid watching his dad beat up his mom probably will create a few conflicts for him.

It looked like the sister was wearing some kind of city uniform, so as a city employee she would have some knowledge as to get city help for domestic violence victims.