S02.E06: Keep Your Enemies Closer

[Actionmage]

Amanda Waller sends A.R.G.U.S. agents to kidnap Diggle. Waller informs Diggle that Lyla has gone missing after following a lead on Deadshot in Moscow. When Diggle tells the team he’s headed to Russia to rescue Lyla, Oliver and Felicity decide to join, but things get messy when Isabel shows up on the tarmac and insists on joining Oliver’s “work trip.” Meanwhile, Moira’s lawyer, Jean, tells Thea that dating Roy, a known criminal, is hurting her mother’s case.

 

This is one of the cooler episodes of the season: Diggle being a Big Damn Hero! Deadshot  being Cryptic about Andrew Diggle!  The Isabel scenes!  Felcity rocking her (fake!)furs! Lyla!! 

[Password]

Felicity did rock the fake fur right? I loved her hat in the car scene where she asks Oliver about Isabel.

[icandigit]

Perfect arrow episode. I'm obsessed with the scene in the hotel where Diggle tells them Lyla was his ex-wife. "I can't leave here without her Felicity, I just can't" makes me melt in a puddle on the floor. I need the writers to understand, that if they don't know what to do just write EBR, DR and SA in a scene together. Then awesomeness is guaranteed.  Anatoli and Deadshot in one episode this is the show that I love. I was mocking Oliver at the beginning being all up in Dig's business. I know he meant well but goodness Oliver.

 

So much great Diggle in this. The scene in Anatoli's office, 'I got this Oliver'. And telling Lyla that she's the exception.I never get enough Diggle. I'm afraid to admit how often I watch this episode.

Edited July 2, 2014 by icandigit

[statsgirl]

I really love this episode.  Lots of Diggle, Diggle/Lyla, Diggle/Felicity/Oliver. Anatoli.  (and no Laurel)

 

Oliver could have gone back to Isabel after Felicity told him about Roy. It was his choice not to. It's a trace of pre-island Oliver, if he's not interested in it, he's not going to do it unless he has to. 

 

When Isabel asked him what qualitifications Felicity had, why didn't he say "A degree from MIT"?

 

Oliver to Roy "You're completely exposed"... but, wasn't he he was behind the pillar?

Amanda Waller wears only one style of shoe. I wonder if she has them in every colour.

"As far as they're concerned, she's already a framed picture on our lobby wall."  This episode really starts building a Lyla/Diggle relationship story.  Another actress who was supposed to be an occasional bit player.  "Lyla,  you're always the exception."

 

I love Quentin deciding to let Roy go when he uses the Arrow password.  He's come a long way.  Some really good conflicted acting by PB.

 

"The catastrophic risk of turning on the accelerator"....  remember that folks."

 

Clueless Oliver: Lyla Michaels ("It's his spy girlfriend who works for ARGUS" fills in Felicity)

 

Mirakuru is stem cell genetic therapy?  Nice us of a trendy term but it makes no sense at all. 

 

Felicity is all perky when she gets out of the car to get on the plane to Russia.... and depressed when coming back. Such is the power of Isabel.

 

Oliver:  I'll take care of Isabel, Diggle.  (No matter what extremes he has to go to, eh, Oliver?)

 

Jean Loring telling Thea to break up with Roy because it could hurt Moira's case ...stupidest subplot ever.  I will speak no more of it except to say, Moira rocks.  And it was her turn to wear the blonde ponytail this episode.

 

I like Anatoli.  When can he come back?   season 4? as a regular?

 

"What crime fits your punishment?"  A Gilbert & Sullivan fan in the gulag.

What is Floyd Laugton doing there?  Was he on a mission?  Is that how Lyla found him?  I'd forgotten the eyepatch is new, courtsey of the Hood.

 

Oliver asking Isabel "Why does saving my family's company mean so much to you?"  Oliver clearly didn't do any research on her, so shut up about Barry, Oliver.

 

Isabel to Oliver "Underneath that swagger, I see you pretty clearly,.. You're intelligent, driven, pretty lonely".    (And she's still accusing Felicity of being a brainless floozy.) And Oliver buys it.  Fratboy dazzled by a pair of boobs still.

My favourite line of the series:
So we're not doing the 'what happens in Russia stays in Russia'?
We're still in Russia.  (the 'you idiot' implied)

 

Since Diggle was arrested and in prison, how did the Russian authorities let him leave the country?  Felicity couldn't have hacked the system since she doesn't speak Russian.
I love the set-up for finding out why HIVE wanted Andy Diggle.  Somthing to look forward to  next season, I hope.

[MsSchadenfreude]

There is so much to love about this episode.

 

Diggle is such a badass.  He owned this episode.  "What's to stop you from killing me?"  "Honor!"

 

The team at the hotel.   "Two minute warning."  "Good Luck John."  Regardless of  who else joins the team in the future, those three will always be the only ones that matter.

 

Deadshot just cracks me at the way he says John.  "Food for thought, John!  Food  for  thought."

 

Hee! Felicity! "We're still in Russia."

 

And then of course, the end scene between Oliver and Felicity was just so well done.

 

Can't forget Anatoli.  "My favorite American and my second favorite American"

Edited July 3, 2014 by MsSchadenfreude

[Orion]

This was one of the episodes that grew on me in re-watch. I just remember being so pissed off at Oliver after hooking up with Isabel and having Felicity show up to see it, that it took me right out of the episode. The writers had this really nice build up from 2.01 forward of Team Arrow and Olicity and then Oliver decides to hook up for a one night stand with a woman that tried to take his company away? It felt jarring.  It also felt like a bit of back slide to Season 1 when Oliver misses helping Diggle because of protecting Laurel and not being there to get Felicity's phone call about the Huntress because he was with McKenna. Oliver for one night, while on a mission please keep your eyes on the prize and your pants zipped up. In the heat of my anger during originally watching this episode the ending where Felicity looks so hurt/disappointed with Oliver it had a really bad sting to it. I also remember being confused by Diggle's reaction to Lyla being kidnapped. Not that I don't think Diggle would rescue anyone he knew but we hadn't seen anything that lead me to believe Lyla was still someone John Loved with a capital L.  So I struggled understanding that relationship.

 

Having watched it now a couple of times it really is a good episode. The pacing was great and of course it never hurts to not have the plot full stop for a Laurel to be inserted into a storyline. For me at least I needed those repeated viewings to put my emotions at Oliver aside so I could actually hear what he was saying and not just want to smack him upside the head.

 

This is the episode that I think you can tell where the writers debated about taking Isabel toward the good side. If they had decided to go that route she really would have been involved in saving QC and forming a partnership with Oliver. Instead she disappeared for the rest of the season until she showed up on Team Slade.

 

Pretty sure this is the first time we hear the Olicity theme in the score during "Because of the life that I lead speech"

 

Isabel and Felicity make me giggle with their fur hats. The costume designer must have thought that was the best way to show we're in Russia with clothing.

 

And this is the episode where I fell in love with Anatoli and how adorably happy he is.

Edited July 4, 2014 by SilverStormm

[statsgirl]

 

but we hadn't seen anything that lead me to believe Lyla was still someone John Loved with a capital L.

I think that was because they hadn't planned on her being anything but someone Diggle went to for information.  But the chemistry between David Ramsey and Audrey Marie Anderson made them write this back story for the characters.

 

I know AK said that they hadn't decided if Isabel was going to be good or bad at that point but I thought she was such a Bitch (with a capital B) in this episode that I don't think I could have accepted her as a good guy later. She was like Laurel on steroids, judgmental, arrogant and the only person good enough to be treated with any kind of consideration by her was Oliver, probably because he was rich and powerful and sexy.

[Orion]

It would have been tough sell your right Statsgirl to make Isabel go good but you can kinda see them playing with the idea with its hard to survive in a man's world and she had a hard childhood that they talk about while drinking Vodka. I got the feeling that they softened her a bit there to show when she's a little drunk she's not as abrasive. Even the, "just everyone who works at QC," line was a little playful, at least when you compare it to full on Bitch on wheels that she normally plays. My guess is if they had taken good they would have explored the over compensating in order to succeed in a misogynistic world.

 

That makes sense that they changed the Diggle/Lyla relationship at that point. Especially since they threw away Diggle and Carley after season 1. They do have a nice chemistry.

[tv echo]

This is one of my favorite episodes for a lot of the reasons already mentioned above.  Although the secondary plot with Thea, Roy and Moira was kinda stupid, the main story taking place in Russia was beautifully written, acted and executed.  The three Team Arrow members' actions were consistent with their characters.

 

This was a crossroads episode for Isabel.  They set her up for some great character/story development later on in the season and then - gone!  Isabel's story (among other things, I suspect) was sacrificed for the Lance family drama and Laurel's contrived insertion into the main storyline in the latter half of Season 2.  

 

Also, nothing further happened regarding H.I.V.E. for the rest of Season 2, did it?

Edited July 3, 2014 by tv echo

[Actionmage]

No, tv echo, and I hope it plays some in the coming season.  Like in this episode, strengthening John and Felicity will only strengthen Team Arrow, and in turn, Oliver.

[catrox14]

So after rewatching this, I'm now of the opinion that Oliver slept with Isabel to keep her distracted and not thinking about what Diggle was up to. Keep your enemies closer as the title of the episode says.  I don't think it was because he was too dumb to resist her charms nor that he saw her as possible love interest.

[statsgirl]

Yes, when Diggle was worried they couldn't do the mission because Isabel went along with them, Oliver said "I'll take care of Isabel".  (Such an unselfish person to have your back!) I hadn't connected that to the title though.  I guess Diggle saving Deadshot was his way of keeping his enemies closer.

 

The reason Oliver sleeping with Isabel bothers me so much is because it feels like a throw-back to pre-island Oliver where sex was just another sport he played at.  I understand that he wanted to keep Isabel from finding out what Diggle was up to but there were ways other than exchanging bodily fluids with her.

Edited July 4, 2014 by statsgirl

[catrox14]

I actually watched this episode again last night, 3rd viewing, because I really want to wrap my mind around why Oliver would sleep with her.  I have a little bit different read even after my most recent comment. 

 

I don't think Oliver set out to sleep with Isabel, but he took advantage of the opportunity when he was presented with it.  Isabel and Oliver were keeping their enemies closer (each other) There was a cat and mouse between Isabel and Oliver in that cocktail scene. I think Amell and Glau were playing that really cagey on both sides with a lot of nuanced eye and face acting that showed they were both not trusting the other really at all. I think they were both trying to figure out what the other one was up to and yes there was attraction because two hot messed up people and vodka reasons. 

 

Oliver's mission was to keep Isabel off Diggle's trail so Diggle could find Lyla.  He did that. As far as Oliver and Felicity their main goal is to remain undiscovered about their evening activities. It might be insensitive of Oliver to not defend Felicity more vociferously but he did say there was nothing between them and that Felicity is his friend.  Any more IMO would have been "methinks thou doth protest too much" kind of thing. Isabel had her mind made up about Felicity already so nothing Oliver could say would change that perception. 

 

I am more convinced than ever that Oliver's speech to Felicity about not being with someone he could care about was all about Felicity. He was convincing himself he can't do it because he's starting to have feelings for her. IMO Felicity's reaction was as Oliver's friend and that she was not entirely believing him about that declaration but that she thought he deserved better than someone like Isabel. I don't think she was thinking of herself in that moment because I don't think she would think him interested in her at all.  

 

There really is a lot more going on in this episode than one catches on first viewing because ACTION ACTION ACTION and bad Russian speaking sort of overshadows the other stuff.

[dtissagirl]

I am more convinced than ever that Oliver's speech to Felicity about not being with someone he could care about was all about Felicity. He was convincing himself he can't do it because he's starting to have feelings for her. IMO Felicity's reaction was as Oliver's friend and that she was not entirely believing him about that declaration but that she thought he deserved better than someone like Isabel. I don't think she was thinking of herself in that moment because I don't think she would think him interested in her at all. 

 

I share your take on that scene. Oliver is talking about Felicity; Felicity doesn't think it applies to her because she believes Oliver would never think about her in a romantic way. It felt to me like Oliver even had that speech more or less -- if not rehearsed, but at least outlined in his head. He probably had to think about it during the flight back home.

 

Speaking of the flight back, one thing I would really love to know is how did Oliver and Diggle explain to Isabel why a pretty bruised Lyla was flying back with them. *g*

[statsgirl]

Would Isabel have even noticed her?   As long as Lyla sat at the back and kept away from Oliver,  I don't think Isabel would have bothered with her.  (Yeah, I really don't like Isabel.)

 

 

It might be insensitive of Oliver to not defend Felicity more vociferously but he did say there was nothing between them and that Felicity is his friend.

I don't think he needed to defend Felicity specifically, just as he should have done if Isabel had gone after Diggle*.  Saying "Isabel, let's keep this [battle] between us" would have told her to fight fair.  You should protect your people, not leave them to be to be cannon fodder.

 

*i can't see Isabel going after Diggle though.  For all her 'poor me, it's so hard to be a woman in the corporate world', Isabel is the kind of woman who goes after and puts down other women, but not men. 

Edited July 5, 2014 by statsgirl

[wingster55]

Felicity really had no place to pass judgment on Oliver on who he slept with. Especially since at that moment Isabel really didn't do anything wrong.

Choosing that moment? Sure judge all you want.

Edited October 1, 2014 by wingster55

[SleepDeprived]

Why not? Is Felicity not allowed to voice her feelings and thoughts on who Oliver beds because, at that moment, Isabel wasn't really doing anything wrong (arguable since Isabel, and her shiny beautiful hair,  was rude as hell upon leaving Oliver's hotel room)? Just because someone isn't doing anything bad at a certain moment in time doesn't negate all the wrongs they may have done or attempted to do, in the past, especially if they're even hardly apologetic about it. Isabel is the same woman that almost cost Felicity, and countless others at QC, her job. She's been dismissive and pretty much stated outright that she thinks of Felicity as nothing more than Oliver's side piece. Oliver knew all of these yet he still slept with her. I think it's completely understandable and reasonable that Felicity would question his actions.

 

Felicity and Oliver are friends. And friends don't stand idly by while the other sleeps with someone of questionable character. If a close friend of mine slept with a woman/man who constantly belittles and treats me with disdain then you can bet that I'll be disappointed, hurt, angry, and judging the hell out of them. At the very least, I would want them to tell my why. If a friend says nothing and quietly condones their other friends sleeping with jerks or bullies or spurned mistresses of their own fathers who, only weeks ago, wanted to destroy their company then what the heck kind of a friendship is that?

[apinknightmare]

Felicity really had no place to pass judgment on Oliver on who he slept with. Especially since at that moment Isabel really didn't do anything wrong.

Choosing that moment? Sure judge all you want.

 

You mean apart from trying to take over his company? She hadn't done anything morally wrong (that they knew of) up to that point, but if Oliver had two brain cells to rub together, he would've known that getting into to bed with someone who had just tried to gain control of his company via hostile takeover two months prior was probably not the best idea. Sleeping with Isabel was a dumbass move, and I take no issue with Felicity calling him out on it or judging him for it, especially since the two of them are friends. I would not hesitate (and have not, in the past) to call a friend out when they were doing idiotic things.

[statsgirl]

Isabel is the same woman that almost cost Felicity, and countless others at QC, her job. She's been dismissive and pretty much stated outright that she thinks of Felicity as nothing more than Oliver's side piece. Oliver knew all of these yet he still slept with her. I think it's completely understandable and reasonable that Felicity would question his actions.

 

Felicity and Oliver are friends. And friends don't stand idly by while the other sleeps with someone of questionable character. If a close friend of mine slept with a woman/man who constantly belittles and treats me with disdain then you can bet that I'll be disappointed, hurt, angry, and judging the hell out of them. At the very least, I would want them to tell my why. 

This is the crux of it for me.  Felicity sees Isabel as a manipulative, untrustworthy woman and she thinks Oliver deserves better in a relationship. She's not jealous, any more than she's jealous of Sara, it's just that she sees Oliver's blindness or self-hate making this choice and because she is his friend, she thinks he deserves better.

 

There are a lot of secrets in this show that get people into trouble, and one of the secrets Moira kept was about Isabel and Robert.  If she had told Oliver, he might not have slept with Isabel and he probably wouldn't have signed over QC to her later.

 

With Felicity and Isabel, it's like season 1 when Diggle warned Oliver that sleeping with Helena was only going to turn out badly, and Oliver didn't listen to him.  Later Diggle tried to warn him that having Laurel as his blind spot was going to turn out badly, and Oliver didn't listen at first either. 

 

For me, it works out to the same thing, that both Diggle and Felicity are Oliver's friends, and when they see him making a bad relationship or sleeping companion choice, they tell him.  Oliver was consistently bad at relationships until he got together with Sara.

[wingster55]

Taking over QC...isn't really a bad thing. Not good but it's business.

Isabel may have been rude leaving Oliver's room but that's not a crime.

 

Having a one night stand isn't the same as getting involved with the Huntress..or not having Diggle's back.

[wonderwall]

Felicity really had no place to pass judgment on Oliver on who he slept with. Especially since at that moment Isabel really didn't do anything wrong.

Choosing that moment? Sure judge all you want.

Oliver is her friend, and she judged him because he was acting beneath himself. I understand where she comes from because personally when my best friend behaves that way I make it a point to tell her that that disappoints me because she deserves better than that. IDK I guess it's all perspective. :)

Taking over QC...isn't really a bad thing. Not good but it's business.

Isabel may have been rude leaving Oliver's room but that's not a crime.

 

Having a one night stand isn't the same as getting involved with the Huntress..or not having Diggle's back.

You're right, taking over a business isn't a bad thing, it's just business... BUT If your friend sleeps with someone who you know...or have an inkling is trying to take over your friend's business, wouldn't you be disappointed in your friend for sleeping with someone with obvious questionable intentions?

Edited October 1, 2014 by wonderwall

[wingster55]

Oliver is her friend, and she judged him because he was acting beneath himself. I understand where she comes from because personally when my best friend behaves that way I make it a point to tell her that that disappoints me because she deserves better than that. IDK I guess it's all perspective. :)

You're right, taking over a business isn't a bad thing, it's just business... BUT If your friend sleeps with someone who you know...or have an inkling is trying to take over your friend's business, wouldn't you be disappointed in your friend for sleeping with someone with obvious questionable intentions?

Well sure if they had an ongoing affair during the time they were fighting each other for QC. But when they've been partners for a number of weeks...no (though to be fair Felicity didn't see them bonding)

[dtissagirl]

Taking over QC...isn't really a bad thing. Not good but it's business.

Yeah, no. They put it in the text of the show that it would be a bad thing for 30 thousand people, including Felicity: She says it in City of Heroes: "All the bad press after the Undertaking left Queen Consolidated ripe for a hostile takeover by Stellmoor International. They've gutted every company they've taken over. Once they gobble up Queen Consolidated, 30,000 employees are going to be out of a job. Including one very blond I.T. expert."

[wonderwall]

Well sure if they had an ongoing affair during the time they were fighting each other for QC. But when they've been partners for a number of weeks...no (though to be fair Felicity didn't see them bonding)

I feel like a one-night stand is just as bad as an ongoing affair. It's equally disappointing, tbqh. Isabel and Oliver have been business partners, hostile ones at that, but they certainly never bonded in a way that would lead to sex or anything romantic. Not that I remember...

[TanyaKay]

Taking over QC...isn't really a bad thing. Not good but it's business.

Isabel may have been rude leaving Oliver's room but that's not a crime.

 

Having a one night stand isn't the same as getting involved with the Huntress..or not having Diggle's back.

 

Given Oliver's track record, who knew he was not already planning a wedding with Isabel. I mean he wanted all that with Helena and was willing to move to Coast city for McKenna, post island Oliver just did not sleep with women, he planned future with them.

 

PS: The only woman he did not plan a future with was Laurel which is quite LOL in my opinion.

Edited October 1, 2014 by TanyaKay

[dtissagirl]

I'm finding this discussion super interesting, because wingster said Isabel wasn't doing anything wrong, and well -- she WAS doing a lot of wrong things, it's just that Felicity and Oliver [and the audience] didn't know half of it back then. When Isabel slept with Oliver, she was already working for Slade in trying to destroy Oliver, and, well, Isabel knew she was screwing the son of the dude she used to bang before.

So Felicity was not only justified, but she was right anyway. The show has established numerous times now that Felicity's and Diggle's opinion of people are to be considered accurate, even more so than Oliver's. Plus, the writing comfirmed Felicity's rightness in distrusting Isabel later in the season when she states she knew Isabel was a supervillain before everyone else did.

Edited October 1, 2014 by dancingnancy

[wingster55]

it's just that Felicity and Oliver [and the audience] didn't know half of it back then.

 

That was my point. One can't judge someone just because of what they discovered in the future.

 

 

willing to move to Coast city for McKenna

 

...no he wasn't. (Also Central)

 

Yeah, no. They put it in the text of the show that it would be a bad thing for 30 thousand people, including Felicity

 

That's still business.

Edited October 1, 2014 by wingster55

[dtissagirl]

But try and put yourself in Felicity's shoes: you wouldn't take it personally if a friend of yours was hooking up with someone who had previously threatened your job? It's "just business" for Isabel, and even for Oliver. It's personal and upsetting for Felicity.

That was my point. One can't judge someone just because of what they discovered in the future.

Except on TV you really can. Writers use this device all the time in "I told you so" storylines -- someone has a beef with someone else -- reason is basically irrelevant -- to set up the I told you so moment. I actually believe Felicity had reason to judge Oliver, but ultimately they set it up so Felicity could be right. And then they even gave her the I told you so moment because these writers are obviously going through TV Tropes and checking all tropes down. Edited October 1, 2014 by dancingnancy

[wonderwall]

It's funny because the episode is titled Keep Your Enemies Closer indicating that Isabel is the enemy and I feel like Oliver/Felicity/Digg all knew that to some extent. It's just disappointing to see someone lower him/herself like that. Felicity wasn't mad at Oliver, she was disappointed. And that's her right as a friend of Oliver. Friends can be disappointed in one another as much as they have a right to be happy for one another. It's not that Oliver's business is just Oliver's. No. Oliver isn't an island. He needs people to help guide him, make him aware of his mistakes as well as their potential. That's what Felicity was doing. 

[apinknightmare]

That was my point. One can't judge someone just because of what they discovered in the future.

 

...no he wasn't. (Also Central)

 

That's still business.

 

And it's still incredibly stupid for Oliver to sleep with someone who was trying to take over his company in the fairly recent past.

Edited October 1, 2014 by apinknightmare

[wingster55]

Writers use this device all the time in "I told you so" storylines -- someone has a beef with someone else -- reason is basically irrelevant -- to set up the I told you so moment.

 

The person receiving the "I told you so" isn't really blamed.

 

It's funny because the episode is titled Keep Your Enemies Closer indicating that Isabel is the enemy and I feel like Oliver/Felicity/Digg all knew that to some extent.

 

In hindsight it could mean that...but I don't think any of them knew she was really an enemy.

[dtissagirl]

I don't undertand, who's being blamed?

[wonderwall]

I don't undertand, who's being blamed?

Well we're discussing how whether or not it wasn't Felicity's business to be disappointed in/ pass judgment on how Oliver acted. 

 

Totally misread your question. I apologize :p

Edited October 1, 2014 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

The person receiving the "I told you so" isn't really blamed.

 

In hindsight it could mean that...but I don't think any of them knew she was really an enemy.

 

I think the only one who didn't realize she was an enemy was Oliver. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that someone who tries to take over your company? Not a friend. Someone you should be wary of. I mean, Oliver basically turned his company over to her to run while he was preoccupied with Slade - after she went forward with the partnership schtick, he completely bought it. It just kills me what an idiot he is sometimes (almost always).

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, sorry, I still don't get the blame comment. Felicity was judging/disappointed in Oliver because she saw Isabel as a threat to 1. her job and 2. Oliver himself, but I don't think she was blaming him for anything?

[statsgirl]

I think the parallel was that Deadshot was Diggle's enemy but he helped Diggle out, Oliver didn't consider Isabel an enemy but that's what it ended up as.

Well sure if they had an ongoing affair during the time they were fighting each other for QC. But when they've been partners for a number of weeks...no (though to be fair Felicity didn't see them bonding)

When they were having drinks in Russia?  I saw that as an exchange rather rather than bonding.

What did Oliver know of Isabel?  That her specialty was taking over companies and gutting them, and she wanted to do the same to QC.  After Walter stepped in to help save the company, Isabel stayed around but it was never clear if  she really wanted to save QC or if she she was biding her time. She treated Oliver like a spoiled child, and she showed up on the tarmac to accompany Oliver to Russia without prior notice and only because she thought, so she said, that Oliver was going to take his secretary away for a sex trip.  That should have set up red flags for Oliver.   She was also on The List, you know, The List that Oliver knows everyone on it has failed the city and he wants everyone to pay.

 

Isabel also bad-mouthed Felicity and treated her like a bimbo who was only in her job because she was sleeping with Oliver. (It's impossible that she didn't know how efficient Felicity really was because she'd been working with Oliver and Felicity for two months by that point.  You can't work with Felicity for five minutes before realizing how organized and how good she is.)   Walking out of Oliver's hotel room with her dress unzipped and telling him to give Felicity the night off because his sexual needs were already met was foul.  A decent person never, ever treats someone else like that, especially someone who is an underling and has never done them any harm.  Oliver was a complete douche to let her get away with that.

 

In The Scientist, Isabel treated Moira pretty badly so presumably she did the same before Russia too.

 

So whether Oliver knew Isabel was an enemy or not, there were plenty of indications by that point that he shouldn't trust her.  Maybe it was an itch he was scratching, maybe he was trying to distract Isabel, maybe he thought he didn't deserve better than a woman who treated other people the way Isabel did. For whatever reason, he's not James Bond and he was an idiot to sleep with her.

Edited October 1, 2014 by statsgirl

[DrSpaceman10]

In my opinion the only reason Oliver slept with Isabel was so Felicity could catch Isabel coming out of Oliver's room and Oliver could give that "because of the life I lead" speech. This show does have the tendency of writing for plot before character and that's why some characters tend to do things that make no sense.

[Guest]

When I first watched this episode (and we didn't know Isabel's link with Slade) I still thought it was pretty weird for Oliver to sleep with her because she was still the person trying to take over his company. That said, when we were first introduced to Isabel in 201 I immediately thought they'd have sex because Oliver seems to sleep with every single attractive woman on the show and it was like a done deal.

 

I was more surprised by Felicity's reaction tbh, or I was surprised that she even said anything because most of Olicity's relationship had been pretty subtle with the romantic undertones up until that point. However, I didn't read her reaction as jealousy and I think she was more disappointed as his friend. And I LOVED that even though Oliver didn't owe her an explanation he immediately felt that he should explain himself which spoke volumes about how he feels for Felicity and her opinion of him.

 

I also loved that Felicity believes he deserves better than Isabel even if that means it's not with her. She truly just wants him to be happy because she cares about him so much. I really loved that scene. Especially the look on Oliver's face. It was like no one had told him he deserved love before. What a great moment. That was when they hooked me even more with these two.

[TanyaKay]

...no he wasn't. (Also Central)

 

 

Laurel's mom lived in Central City, McKenna was moving to Coast city to be with her sister.

 

Oliver was willing to move, the exact dialogues were:

Oliver: "I will visit, I am a billionaire, I will move to Coast city."

McKenna: "It is sweet but your club just opened. Your life is here.

 

Some more dialogue between Oliver and McKenna and then

McKenna: "Please don't make it harder than it already is."

 

Point is, he was willing to try with everyone barring Laurel.

[catrox14]

I thought the reason Oliver slept with Isabel was two fold.  He needed to distract her from finding out what Diggle was up to and well, she essentially offered and well why not?

[wingster55]

Laurel's mom lived in Central City, McKenna was moving to Coast city to be with her sister.

 

Who said McKenna was in Central City? Not me, nope....*whistles*

[wonderwall]

So people are finally catching on...

[catrox14]

I think that is a total continuity fail on the part of the writers.

[catrox14]

I had always assumed that in S1, Isabel was an older woman like maybe Moira's age or a little younger who had some power like everyone else in the book.  But then once they got hot to trot to hire Summer Glau and have her make sexytimes with Oliver they got lazy and made her Isabel Rochev and either didn't remember or didn't care that she was in the book.

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

In my opinion the only reason Oliver slept with Isabel was so Felicity could catch Isabel coming out of Oliver's room and Oliver could give that "because of the life I lead" speech. This show does have the tendency of writing for plot before character and that's why some characters tend to do things that make no sense.

Hit the nail on the head.

This episode is an excellent example of failing to outline major plot points.

A) Oliver never should have slept with Isabel. Her name was in the damn book. He never should have trusted her. Not gotten close enough to knock boots.

B) Having Oliver sleep with Isabel was a plot contrivance to slow Olicity which also hurt the Oliver and Sara pairing. Within a matter of weeks he went from leading a life which prevents him from being with someone he cares about to reconnecting with someone I think we were supposed to believe he cares for. (even if I don't believe Oliver and Sara were ever meant to be long term)

C) Felicity's part appeared to be her turn at jealousy even though I don't think it was all jealousy. Oliver would get his turn a bit later.

D) because the writers didn't know what to do with Isabel, the presence of her vagina gave them something to do with her. It didn't serve a point. Although I might have laughed maniacally if she'd immediately compared Oliver and Robert's performance.

What would the viewing audience have thought if Isabel had been Isaac and Feliciity had slept with him? Should Oliver get a pass because he is Olived Queen. You know Felicity would have been subjecting to a tar and feathering.

[statsgirl]

It's too bad they didn't run with Isabel being in the book -- maybe Oliver slept with her to find out more information or to lull her into complaisance or maybe she did have some dark secret that Robert and Malcolm could blackmail her for.

 

 

Hit the nail on the head.

This episode is an excellent example of failing to outline major plot points.

A) Oliver never should have slept with Isabel. Her name was in the damn book. He never should have trusted her. Not gotten close enough to knock boots.
B) Having Oliver sleep with Isabel was a plot contrivance to slow Olicity which also hurt the Oliver and Sara pairing. Within a matter of weeks he went from leading a life which prevents him from being with someone he cares about to reconnecting with someone I think we were supposed to believe he cares for. (even if I don't believe Oliver and Sara were ever meant to be long term) [snip]
D) because the writers didn't know what to do with Isabel, the presence of her vagina gave them something to do with her. It didn't serve a point. Although I might have laughed maniacally if she'd immediately compared Oliver and Robert's performance.

That would have been gold, to have her compare Robert to Oliver.   Oliver could have used being taken down a few pegs.

 

Trying to justify sleeping with Sara after that line to Felicity gave SA quite a few problems in later interviews. (He said Oliver could have a relationship with Sara because she could take care of herself in a fight whereas Felicity would be in danger.)  I wonder if he went to the EPs to complain that it didn't make sense.

 

 

What would the viewing audience have thought if Isabel had been Isaac and Feliciity had slept with him? Should Oliver get a pass because he is Olived Queen. You know Felicity would have been subjecting to a tar and feathering.

She would have, but Oliver had pretty low standards when it came to sleeping with a woman, both in terms of his playboy days and post-island when he was a cold killer. I'd like to think Felicity would be better than that.

[dtissagirl]

If Felicity were the one going on a mission, and Oliver slept with Isabel and Diggle was the one who saw Isabel leaving Oliver's room... do you guys think Diggle wouldn't say anything because "it wasn't his place" like it was posted as a start of this discussion? I mean, Diggle has been pretty vocal about what he thinks of Laurel and Helena. Would HE be out of place if he called Oliver an idiot for banging Isabel?

Edited October 3, 2014 by dancingnancy

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

She would have, but Oliver had pretty low standards when it came to sleeping with a woman, both in terms of his playboy days and post-island when he was a cold killer. I'd like to think Felicity would be better than that.

Yes, Oliver had lower standards when it came to sex pre-island. He was equal opportunity. No standards necessary. I don't think he was as indiscriminate post-island. He'd practically been a one woman guy. With exception of his Laurel encounter all his relationships had been on the up and up. Laurel was a brain fart.

But I don't think it excuses him nor should it be a reason if the tables were turned to crucify Felicity. Oliver does dumb things and rightly he should be called on them as he calls out those who make choices he doesn't agree with. The writers didn't give Oliver motive to sex up Isabel other than she was a girl. They set the stage for him not to sleep with her with her name in the book and her desire to gut QC.

A) she was familiar with Russian. Did he stay dressed to hide his Bratva tattoo?

B) Isabel accused him of being a manwhore and an incompetent CEO. He refuted her digs at Felicity but then whipped it out which made his argument ring hollow. Sleeping with Isabel essentially gave her proof he would sleep with his assistant or anyone willing to spread their legs. Not a good way to prove your aren't the college dropout playing at CEO.

C) the life I lead speech could have been prompted by something other than sex with Isabel. Oliver isn't willing to risk falling in love but he is willing to bed indiscriminately to scratch an itch? Sex with any woman as Oliver Queen is risky. She could have run to the tabloids. His OQ persona is just as susceptible to attack as GA it just wouldn't be physical. I doubt Isabel could be bought off like his baby mama was.

Again I think it was a shitty decision by the writers. Oliver could have slept with any random person in order to slow Olicity which I think was their main goal. Using Isabel complicated the narrative.

Also when Oliver found out he had slept with his father's mistress it caused me to laugh. I'm sure it wasn't the reaction they were going for when they hooked them up this episode. I did laugh though because it disgusted him where the sister-swapping doesn't.

[apinknightmare]

Nevermind!

Edited October 3, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Password]

Up until Isabel became evil, I believe the EPs were still deciding what to do with her. At that point she was a horrible woman trying to take away his family's legacy. I still think regardless of her final intentions, it was a bonehead thing for Oliver to do.