Maximum Taco
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Dude. Lena Headey is trolling us now with her phony Stoneheart spoilers.
Clearly she can no longer be trusted.
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House Tully has revised their words.
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I wonder do I recall it right that Mance stated they don't kneel north of the wall? That might be a way out at least for many wildlings any that will kneel south of the wall can come.
That seems kind of ridiculous.
We don't kneel. Now take us 50 feet that way, and we'll be total supplicants.
They call themselves the Free Folk for a reason. They don't kneel to any king. Not even their own.
Now I'm not suggesting they'll all be strong willed, I'm sure some will decide they'd rather submit to Stannis and his laws then face the White Walkers. Just that their code doesn't seem based on location.
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But acting that impulsively, and incredibly stupidly so, is completely out of character for Tyrion. Isn't it?
I've just be re-reading A Storm of Swords, and the scene where Tyrion first goes to Tywin after the Battle of Blackwater is just brutal. Frankly, it's be so long ago in real-time for the show, I can't remember how much of that they kept in. But I think there were probably some shitty things they've shown Tywin doing to Tyrion that they could've reminded the viewer of in the "previouslies"
After having some time to think about it, I think they could've sold the idea of Tyrion facing the prospect of leaving Westeros (most likely for good), and wanted to finally "settle up" with Tywin for being such an asshole all his life. That would've worked even without the Tysha angle.
But I just don't think they executed very well on the show, in terms of portraying it as impulsive or not.
It is out of character.
It's supposed to highlight the curveball that Tywin is to Tyrion.
- Tyrion should hate Tywin, he's definitely justified in doing so, but he still desires his love and respect. He's happy when Tywin keeps him in the tent in season one after he lets all his other advisors go. He's honoured when Tywin names him his direct proxy as Hand.
- Tyrion should ignore Tywin, but he still does what he says. He goes to King's Landing and becomes the Hand, he still marries Sansa even though he kinda doesn't want to. His biggest rebellion is bringing Shae to the capital. It's the equivalent of a teenage girl continuing to date the guy her dad doesn't like, but she still is home by 10pm every night, she doesn't drink or do drugs, and she gets straight A's.
- Tyrion should leave everyone who rejected him and tried to kill him behind. He should go straight to Varys and escape without any delays, but he can't leave Tywin behind, and he goes to confront him.
Tywin, up until the moment Tyrion shoots him, is Tyrion's achilles heel. Tywin makes Tyrion do things and act in ways he otherwise wouldn't.
Isn't there someone you know who can/could just push your buttons and make you act uncharacteristically? I know there is for me.
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Varys is the ultimate scene-stealing sidekick, even if he barely had any scenes at all this season.
Is he a side-kick though? Whose side-kick is he?
He turns around and betrays everybody.
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But how did he expect to stop and speak with Tywin in the midst of his prison escape? I hope they find a way to explain that because it really bugs me. Showing himself to Tywin would have resulted in getting thrown right back in the dungeon. The only way he could have made it out of there was by killing Tywin, but he didn't seem to be planning that until after he saw Shae and grabbed the crossbow.
I honestly don't think he was thinking it through. He didn't plan it out at all. He just acted.
He wasn't thinking "Ok, I'll have a nice chat with Pops, and then I'll peace out." he was probably thinking "What the crap am I doing? Turn around, turn around and go back to Varys, why am I not listening to my common sense?"
It's difficult when we aren't getting the inner monologue like in the books and we have to fill it in ourselves, but I maintain this was one of the very few decisions Tyrion makes that isn't the least bit rational, it's just something he couldn't stop himself from doing.
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I was referring to the Wildlings. I expect Stannis will offer Mance and the Wildlings to join him and I can't see why they wouldn't, the alternative being killed. Stannis doesn't really need them to take KL, but he surely could use them to beat the remaining Lannister allies plus the Greyjoys and secure the rest of the Seven Kingdoms.
I always thought if Stannis were to arrive at the Wall, his army and the NW would fight and kill the Wildlings, but this outcome is so much better for everyone involved and wouldn't have been possible without Melisandre convincing him to go north.
The only sticking point is that "they do not kneel"
Stannis will require them to kneel to their King if they are to be citizens of Westeros.
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I'm just confused by all the Lannister children's stories, to be honest. Jaime and Cersei apparently stronger than ever, when they should be almost broken beyond repair at this point. The shows just been doing really strange things with their characters all season, to the point where I'm not sure I'll ever really believe Jaime's going to turn his back on Cersei, even though it must eventually happen.
And the Tyrion scenes felt really odd, not bad exactly, but unfinished. I'm trying to take off my bookwalker hat and just view it as an unsullied, but for the life of me I can't see why Tyrion would delay his escape from imminent execution to go and see his dad without the excuse of the temporary insanity bomb of Jaime's, Tysha reveal. I mean why Tywin in particular? He knows Cersei's his accuser, knows she was the one who found all the witness' and was the driving force behind his kangaroo court trial. And thanks to Oberyn, knows she did sadistic things to him when he was a baby. I know he has plenty of reasons to hate his father, but when he's fleeing for his life with only time to settle one score and without the Tysha reveal, I think I would've paid Cersei a visit personally.
He didn't go up there planning to kill his father or settle a score. He only decided to kill his father after he found Shae in his bed. If he needed to kill someone before he left I agree he would've settled on Cersei. But he went up to see his father because he just couldn't let go of the notion that maybe he could do something to make his father hate him less.
Just like he had to know why Orson Lannister spent all day in the garden smashing beetles, he had to know why his father continually hated and tried to kill him. Even though he already pretty much knows why. He still needed to absolutely know before he could leave forever.
The difference between Tywin and Cersei, to Tyrion, is that he never craved Cersei's approval, all the way through though he craves Tywin's. Why else would his last words to him be "I am your son. I have always been your son."?
I don't think he would've said the same thing to Cersei. He probably would've spit on her corpse and peaced out.
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Wic is confirming through its 'sources' that Irish actress Aimee Richardson will not be returning as Myrcella in Season 5. Her replacement is English actress Nell Tiger Free. WiC speculates that the 'Romeo-and-Juliet teen love story' between Myrcella and Trystane will be expanded.
They must have their reasons, I'm sure, but I feel sorry for young Aimee. She's been so excited to return to the show, so thrilled to be a part of it, and now... not. Tough business, is show business!
Yeah it seems odd
I think Aimee Richardson is actually slightly older then Nell Tiger Free, so it's not like Tommen who they felt needed to be older than Callum Wharry.
Maybe they just felt Aimee didn't have the acting chops? Myrcella has been used fairly sparingly for the first 4 seasons, and next season I wouldn't be surprised to see her elevated to a main character. Probably a tough blow for her, to be sure, but as you said that's show business.
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I wouldn't be surprised if we get some from flashbacks from Bran.
They may have got away with Tyrion sitting in a dark cell for 70 mins this season but I can't see Viewers doing the same for Bran sitting in a dark cave (even if it's only 7 mins over the season).
So Flashbacks seems to be a good plan.
Think we'll get a Sean Bean guest shot? Or maybe Chris Hemsworth playing young Ned Stark
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I actually prefer the show version of Cersei to the book. Darker character isn't necessary more interesting. I feel like in the show one can sympathies with Cersei about some things while still finding her totally despicable most other times. I agree that her cracking will be made clear when she tries to rule and fails to kill Tyrion or get rid of the Tyrells despite having all the power.
By the way I assume Margaery and Tommen marriage will still have to happen for plot reasons and I wonder how the show will make it happen.
It doesn't seem to me like it'll be a huge problem.
Cersei can't outright cancel the marriage, because that would dissolve the alliance. When she tries to delay it, Margaery (or Olenna) can make some veiled threat about how the Tyrells have been away from home for a long time and they need to see to matters of defending and feeding the Reach. So, the Tyrells, their army and their food will return to Highgarden and Cersei can send for them when she wants the wedding to take place.
Cersei won't be able to let the realm starve and thusly the Tyrells will get their wedding. This also will plant the grudge deeper in Cersei and can trigger the House of Cards storyline where she seeks to ruin Margaery.
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Another question
The show has previously taken a staunch disapproval of flashbacks, will they break it for Bran's visions?
Might we see Sean Bean return, cleaning Ice beneath the heart tree at Winterfell and hoping that Robb and Jon grow close like brothers?
If they don't break it how will the show display Bran's new found powers? Will he just be able to see in the present?
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Trystane seemed like a charmer in the audition, I wonder if they could combine Trystane, Quentyn and Quentyn's hot companion Drinkwater, dealing with the Myrcella plot in the first half of the season and sending Trystane to woo Dany and get roasted in 5x09. But that might be a bit crazy even for this show's travel times/character combination logic.
The only issue with this is they might have to come up with a reason for Dany to reject him. In ADWD Barristan supposes that if Drink was the Prince of Dorne it might have ended differently, but because Quentyn is plain and stocky, she immediately puts him aside. Trystane I believe they are casting a heartbreaker someone to make Myrcella swoon.
Also, yeah Trystane will have to be everywhere, for him to put the moves on Myrcella, put her aside and then go and try to woo Dany. That might be fun though.
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As for Jojen, I wish we could have seen more devastation from Bran, because for all the talk of Bran's selfishness, I do think he cared about Jojen. Those scenes weren't all that well-directed so I'm going to put some of it on Alex Graves, as I already don't like him so that's easy. As much as Jojen essentially lived only in service to another, I'm glad that his death at least gave Meera a chance to do things and feel things, as I think Ellie Kendrick is great and really a very different type of actress for the show, and I was happy to get to see more of her.
Agreed. Jojen should not have been a finale death. There was just no time given for the death to land. We saw Jon mourning Ygritte and Grenn and we even got a moment with Pyp on the fire to let those episode 9 deaths land. Jojen however is just left to die in a vacuum and Bran rushes forward because they didn't have enough time to spend on making his death land.
Bran should have been devestated. I can see him being somewhat detached in the books, he's closer to Meera there, and he's starting to go all green seer on everybody and that might necessitate a certain detachment from emotion. But TV!Bran was even triggering wide spread thoughts of whether or not he's into Jojen, as a romantic prospect, largely because he seems to be having a lot of significant looks with him and Meera just seems along for the ride.
Very disappointed in how that death was handled. Maybe we can get a scene next season where Bran and Meera bond over the loss, but having to wait a year for Jojen's death to have impact is just ridiculous.
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This makes zero sense, marrying Loras may "seem" like a death sentence, but admitting to Incest publicly actually IS a death sentence and not just for her but for Tommen, Myrcella, and Jamie. As much as I dislike Cersei and don't think she's that smart, she's definitely not that stupid.
Cersei's pretty delusional.
She seems to think she has a lot of power and protection when a lot of that power is either a paper shield, or comes from outer sources. Hilariously she's making the same wrong assumptions Ned Stark did in season one.
Ned thought that Robert's death bed endorsement, his position as Hand and the swords he got from Littlefinger protected him enough to make his move. He didn't realize you can't really count on men that aren't your own, and your own absolutely, and that an order given by an old King doesn't really matter once he's dead.
Cersei thinks that Tommen's position as King (read: her position as Queen) and the Lannister swords protect her. She isn't thinking things through that if she goes ahead with her plan, her father, not her, will command the Lannister men, the Tyrells will command the rest of King's Landing's standing army, and Tommen will have no legitimacy to rule, which will remove her own legitimacy. Her power, just like Ned's, is very transient and it's hard for her to see that when right now she's one of the most powerful people in the Kingdoms.
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Is it just my imagination or was her delievery different in the trailer? Maybe it just sounded different because it was taken out of context.
I don't remember her saying this line in the trailer. Maybe you saw a different one than I did.
In any case it is possible they used different takes. Sometimes the director makes some last minute substitutions and I hear Alex Graves and the editors ware working on this finale up until the last week before airing.
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Isn't Jon Snow the first person besides Davos and maybe Melly to actually address Stan as Your Grace? It's the start of a beautiful friendship between wolf and lobster, two mopey outcasts.
Stannis's swag rating is no longer 14/100, imo.
Look at that synchronized Stavos stride.
What's great is that not only does Stannis not break stride, he doesn't even draw his sword while the kamikaze wildling launches at him. Davos atleast has his blade out but Stannis just doesn't care, so absolute is his control over his army, that he knows someone is gonna cut that sum'bitch down before he gets close to the one true King of Westeros. What a beast.
Stannis also probably has the best leitmotif in the show. You hear that and you think, oh something is going down with Stannis.
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I absolutely loved this line
Cersei: I would burn our house to the GROUND!..(Can't remember the rest)
Cersei: When you marched into the throne room to tell me we'd won the Battle of the Blackwater do you remember?! I was sitting on the Iron Throne with Tommen. I was about to give him essence of nightshade, that's how far I was willing to go when I thought someone awful had come to take my son away. Someone awful is coming to take him away
Tywin: Oh. (You can actually HEAR Tywin roll his eyes here.)
Cersei: Joffrey is dead. Myrcella's been sold like livestock, and now you want to ship me off to Highgarden and steal my boy, my last boy! Margaery will dig her claws in, you will dig your claws in and you'll fight over him like beasts until you rip him apart! I WILL BURN OUR HOUSE TO THE GROUND BEFORE I LET THAT HAPPEN!
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If they do Sansa and Harry the Heir (and I hope they do) they'll probably give it the love story treatment the way they did with Robb/Talisa and have a bunch of scenes where Sansa is trying to charm him, or vice versa.
I also want Lady Stoneheart and Frey Pie. We need to see some Frey's killed here. I mean, seriously, in the series they're just getting away with the Red Wedding. Also LSH is not just thematically important, but in TWOW it seems she's going to be the driving force in Brienne and Jaime's conflict. I just cannot see Brienne betraying Jaime for anyone other than Catelyn.
I'm supposing the drama in King's Landing will be Cersei doing her own "House of Cards" style scheming to lead Margaery (and herself) to ruin. That could be interesting if they do it right. It'll need a lot of expansion though, these were some of the dullest parts of AFFC for me. They are already setting up Qyburn's creation of Frankengregor, so maybe we'll even get Cersei's trial by combat next season?
Other Big Season 5 Possibilities:
1) Griff and Young Griff, some people are thinking they'll just remove the Aegon storyline, I'm guessing those people are the book readers who are hoping for Aegon to not be important later on. He dominates ADWD though, and I can't see them cutting him out. Also Jon Connington is a character I'd like to see, I don't see that happening without Aegon.
2) Quentyn Martell, Dragontamer. Curious about this one, we've seen casting calls out for Doran, Trystane and the Sand Snakes, but nothing with Quentyn and his party. I really like Gerris Drinkwater and Archibald Yronwood. I'm hoping we get all three, even though this story doesn't seem all that necessary, it does seem like they might lack for deaths in the upcoming season, and might include it to keep up the quota as it were.
3) Sam, Gilly and Aemon on the way to Oldtown. Another one that I'm not sure will happen but i hope does. I kinda want to see Alleras/Sarella and I'm hoping that storyline is going somewhere in the books. It might be nice to see Sam run into Arya in Braavos too, he can be the one to collect meetings with Starks.
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The Brotherhood / LSH gave her the choice of hanging or killing Jaime. They started to hang her and her friends, but she yelled out a single word, then the chapter ended. She then showed up in Jaime's last PoV chapter and led him off by himself. Presumably she's leading him into a trap.
I don't even think it can even be called presumably. It's definitely a trap.
She tells Jaime that she found Sansa and she's with the Hound a day's ride from Pennytree, and that if they don't go together alone the Hound will kill Sansa. We of course know that this scenario is impossible. The Hound is either dead or on the Quiet Isle and no longer the Hound, and Sansa is in the Vale.
I can't see Brienne lying to jaime unless she's absolutely decided to kill him for Lady Stoneheart.
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Because lightsabers make everything better
Takeaway: if Emperor Palpatine had trained the Red Viper, he'd still be alive.
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Agreed completely ElizaD. D and D's assessment of Tywin was wrong but then again, look at what we got with Jaime and Cersei in the sept this season. We also had the comment by Weiss back in Season 2 that "Jaime is a monster who loves killing." Tywin might not do it for shits and giggles like Ramsay, Joffrey, and the Mountain but he's a monster too.
GRRM was also interviewed though he talks about the scene where Tyrion kills Shae and Tywin as he wrote it in the book. He does say that killing Shae is the darkest mark in Tyrion's life so he doesn't give him an out. He said he'll be haunted by it and Tywin's death for the rest of his life. The next question was interesting...it seems to dispel the idea that Shae was a Tywin plan all along but GRRM adds something at the end...
The rest of the interview...
http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/16/game-of-thrones-finale-martin/
You know, maybe it's Varys who tells Tyrion the truth about Tysha (if D and D haven't completely given up on the storyline). Tyrion's first marriage wasn't exactly a secret. LF knew about it in the book and on the show, Bronn mentions hearing men talk about it in the Lannister war camp. Varys likely knows what went down with Tyrion's wife as well. Why would he tell Tyrion the truth? Because he would want to poison Tyrion against Jaime and make him want to help Dany even more. Just an idea.
I always thought the theory of Shae working for Tywin all along was ridiculous.
Bronn was bought super easily, Tywin could have easily bribed Tyrion's guards or Bronn himself if he really wanted to spy on him. Tyrion was pretty easy going with most information. Letting Tyrion keep Shae around was actually contrary to Tywin's plans. Tyrion had less reason to consummate his marriage with Sansa when he had a little Shae-side-action to relieve his frustration.
This interview pretty much confirms what I figured all along, Book!Shae was just a whore. She stayed with Tyrion because he kept her in a manse and gave her pretty things and when his star fell she decided to cash out her chips when Cersei offered her a marriage to a knight. Then I'm guessing Tywin decided he'd rather have her, and it's more profitable to be the Hand's whore than it is to be some landed knight's wife.
It sounds like what they were going for with TV!Shae was that she's much more like Tysha, she did love Tyrion, but he broke her when he tried to send her away and called her a whore, so she became what he called her.
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Spotted someone in the Unsullied thread asking about Dany's titles:
"Queen of the Andals and Rhoynar and First Men.". Is this the first mention of the Rhoynar? I only remember Robert, Joffrey and Tommen being referred to as "King of the Andals and First Men". Name-dropping for Season 5 since Tyrion sails down the Rhoyne and the people of Dorne have Rhoynish ancestors?
It's the first mention I believe. Before all of them were King/Queen of the Andals and the First Men. Even in 4E06 when Dany's holding court she's the Queen of the Andals and the First Men with no mention of the Rhoynar.
I think it may have just been a slip up, some writer put it in all her titles as they are in the books maybe. If it wasn't a mistake it's a stupid decision to start including it now, it makes it seem as if the title just came out of nowhere. They're just adding more confusion for the sake of confusion.
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How dare you leave out House Bolton? The reigning house in the North!
Are you prayin' for a flayin'?
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Game of Hodors: Insert "Hodor" Into Your Favorite Quotes
in Fun & Games
Tywin: You shot me. You're no Hodor.
Tyrion: I am Hodor. I have always been Hodor.