Ambrosefolly

While I do feel I can link sources to my accusations, it is such a wall of links it isn't worth it.

My point is that while what Drew did managed to outdo what Jason and Monica did in terms of cheating, it is Jason's support of Sonny and Carly that has lead to Michael being gravely injured, again, that would cause Monica the most stress. Monica is probably furious with Drew as she was one of the few people that didn't demand that everything be taken away from him turned over to Jason when Jason came back from the dead the first time, but it isn't enough to stress her out as similar things have happened in the past and no one died directly from those events. However, Jason alliance with Sonny and Carly, even after what happened with Jason, has caused the Michael to be fighting for his life a second time. Michael to his stepfather's house for advice shouldn't put him in the hospital, but it did, again, not from an accident but from one of Sonny's enemies. Jason put Michael that lifestyle, when a safer option was available, because Carly can't compromise. He's threatened AJ several times when AJ tried to legally get custody of Michael. The alliance has cost the lives of Emily, Alan and Justus (with Justus being the most direct one as he was representing Jason when he got killed). The danger element would be bad enough, but Sonny cold bloodily murdered AJ and is freely living his life. If he cared about Monica out all, he would be distance between CarSon, but no. Instead he allows Sonny to use her property to stage another murder and Jason helps cover it up. Now Michael is again paying for the lifestyle that Jason got him in and refuses to quit.

Counterpoint: Jason constantly runs cover for the ASSHOLE THAT MURDERED HER BIOLOGICAL SON AJ IN COLD BLOOD AND HIS BITCH EX-WIFE. This isn't some Dorian/Vicki shit or on this show, Leslie/Monica drama, Jason is a complete traitor. Not only is he still friends with the guy that murdered Monica's son AJ, he even recently covered up a murder that Sonny committed, again in cold blood, on her fucking property. In any other circumstance, even the heighten ones, what Drew did was worse than Jason, it is the worse case of family stealing away another spouse, and that is a pretty high bar. At least this time around with the spouse stealing, people are disgusted by the people involved in the betrayal, unlike with what Jason pulled with AJ/Courtney with everyone celebrating it. And if kids being involved makes it worse, Jason fully supported Sonny knocking up Carly while she was (in an admittedly sham) marriage to AJ and taking full custody and then Sonny kidnapping AJ to steal his parental rights. If Jason truly felt sorry about it with his own experience with his own sons, he would be keeping his distance away from Sonny, instead of helping him cover up a murder.

Fuck that too. Considering how she openly disparages the memory of her murdered cousin Kate, after she inherited half a hotel from her, and how she judges the Qs, a hard pass too. It should go into a trust for the great grand kids and grand kids besides Michael, as @DanaKsaid. So if the stress of the combo of Willow and Michael's impending divorce and especially Michael going away to heal from life threatening burns finally does Monica in, then Jason's constant traitorous bullshit finally killed her. I know people deem Drew worse (and he is slimy), what Drew did has happened in the family before: Monica had an affair with Ned (before realizing it was her nephew, at least to her credit) and Jason stole Courtney away from AJ with the family cheering it on. But Jason constantly choosing Carly and Sonny and even helping them keep Michael away from most of the family, not mention directly or indirectly getting members of family killed, probably broke her heart.

It will as they will actually have to create interesting stories and characters and can't rely on an existing IP for their audience.

Based on the “justice” that white people get (Kate Howard, AJ Quartermaine), the show sucks with justice and protecting anyone. As someone that is neither white nor black, my observation is that the legal system has trouble protecting women in general. In the last couple of years, I’ve heard separate stories of a white and black woman being targeted by their prior victimizers because the legal failed to properly inform them that the men had been paroled. In the case of the white woman, she was murdered and the black woman, she was seriously injured and her pre teen son was killed. Heather only stalked Trina (though that is very serious), but I would argue that white women are more in danger, as Heather hasn’t killed any African American people, but she has killed or attempted to kill several white women. Considering what a vindictive bitch Ava is, it is a bit surprising she isn’t pushing more for Heather to be locked in a mental hospital. If Dr.O doesn’t come back to at least to attempt to take out Heather, then I know there is no depth in this storyline.

Then by that metric, Carly is a less evil character than her because she hasn’t murdered anyone, just kidnapping, fraud and accessory to murder. Ava doesn’t own shit. The only good thing with Ava and Sonny sharing a kid is that they are stuck torturing each other because they are both incredibly slimy, so they regularly get out of trouble. And I find Maura West overly mannered. This show is very sad because between our three unrepentant killers, Ava commits the least amount of murderers.

As I said in the post, it is fine if you aren’t looking for morality. My point there isn’t anything in Ava’s history that makes her redeemed for what she did to Kate, AJ, and Morgan. She is still an evil character like Sonny and Carly, but unlike someone like Helena Cassadine, the show isn’t willingly to be honest about how immoral they are.

Or they justify or hand wave the truly evil things they do & they get storyline after storyline. See: Ava Jerome, Sonny Cornithos, now they trying to portray Carly as the matriarch even though she is currently covering up another murder. The current leads don’t suffer any repercussions for the shit they do. Mitch Lawerence was portrayed straight up,so I can at least appreciate the honesty. Even when he escapes justice, it is seen as wrong, not like with Ava when she murdered Kate and got AJ killed.

So it isn't so much they actually did anything redeemable, but people find them entertaining. I guess if they do something really shitty to a relative innocent (or someone they professed to care about) hopefully they don't do anything else shitty within the year, like Ava's back to back shooting Kate in cold blood and getting Sonny to kill AJ when he was searching for the truth. I get that people just enjoy watching evil characters when they are played by entertaining actors. Believe it or not, I do too, but to me, they aren't redeemed unless they fully make up for the things they did and being nice to a teen girl ≠ murdering 2 innocent people and swapping the meds from a troubled young man. To me, there is difference be from being entertained by dark characters and ignoring the bad stuff they do (and it fine if people value that more than morality in entertainment) and a character being redeemed. @YaddaYaddaGive Donna to Lucas. She'd probably be safer.

You're entitled to your opinion, I just don't agree with the assessment. More than redeemed herself because of Trina?? It is that line of thinking that got Guza to believe that Sonny is still the good guy. sarcasm Sonny gets a SAed teen to strip at his club, sleeps with her and gives her pills...water under the bridge and she's to blame because Sonny gave comfort care to Stone when he was dying of AIDS. And all the kidnappings and murders are fine because he did it out of love.sarcasm I'd would argue that Sonny sitting vigil by Stone's bedside did more for his redemption for he did to Karen than Ava being nice to Trinia, especially as Ava directly or indirectly got 3 people killed: Kate, AJ and Morgan. And I don't think he is ever redeemed for he did to Karen because he doesn't believe he did anything wrong. Ava might have some pangs of guilt now and again, but she was over joyed when the confession went missing. AJ, on the other hand, was somewhat disturbed when he was found not guilty and was the only one that bothered to find out the truth about what happened to Kate. I don't root for Heather, because Heather was always a nasty person, but like I said, she was never crazy as Guza characterized when he brought the character back, so maybe cobalt poisoning explains why she acted like she did when she was high. As for Brad, being sleazy towards Michael and taking Wiley in a moment of weakness when Wiley's own mother even offered, since in the case of Michael nothing happened (thoughMichael was too forgiving in order to usher Lucas/Brad), weirdly, they are actually classic storylines. Tracy did try to coerce Jax into marrying her, so it isn't hugely different than Brad. 100%, though I think that Michael should be banished until he gives up Sonny.

See, right there. A rivalry or at least a resentment that should exist. I don't mind Lucas not constantly hating on Carly, but Lucas should definitely have a problem with her, which could have been stirred up with Bobbie's death. She never apologized for her role in breaking up his parents marriage when he was a child, nor lying to his Tony and driving him crazy (which caused Tony from being able to see Lucas and Lucas even being afraid of him), and judging by Carly reaction to Dante when he brought up when she paid Brooklynn to break up Lante, she probably would be equally dismissive. I don't remember Lucky particular hating Sonny, only Jason. Once Larry sobered up and the Liason/LL2 drama died down, he wasn't particular vindictive toward Jason, he just didn't have any use for him. It was my favorite attitude of Lucky towards the mob. While Jagger was going around the bend near the end, it felt like a Frank Grimes (Simpsons) situation where karma barely touches that waste of skin Sonny and it pisses him off.(At least Homer is only a buffoon, not inherently evil). One thing that the show is picking up from the Guza years is despite the shit Sonny stirs up, nearly unprovoked, somehow it is the people he victimizes who are the real villians. You know how Michael got shot in the head from a bullet meant for Sonny by a hit put out by Claudia (she didn't pull the trigger or was even there). Well, Claudia did it not because she wanted Sonny's territory, but because he kidnap her brother/son Johnny. She even gave Sonny a chance to release Johnny immediately with no issue, and Sonny refused. Then he is shocked, shocked that a mobster would make good on her threat.

I like the underdog myself, but the way the show redeems truly sociopathic and destructive murderers, I just can't anymore. AJ, Zander, Skye and are totally different than people like Heather and Ava. We saw it for ourselves how Sonny & Carly (with Jason's help) ruined AJ, that Jason and Courtney framed Zander for Courtney shooting that cop, and Skye was an old school schemer, but didn't actively murder or kidnap innocent people. Now Nina and Brad are little more grey: they did commit out right crimes, but in Nina's defense, she probably was insane after being put into a 20 year coma by her mother and finding out she was infertile when she nearly killed Ava by forcing her to give birth and kidnapping Avery, and Brad did try and blackmail Michael into sleeping with him (I don't like Michael, but that was pretty sleazy) and kept Wiley because he was afraid of losing Lucas, but luckily no one died. In a lot of ways, Brad is a fresh update of schemers like Tracy and Skye. But Ava and Heather did kill people and do other terrible things. But they brushed it aside for Ava and now they are doing it with Heather. Now, the cobalt poisoning thing, I get it is attempting to be a bit of a reset: Guza did turn her into a unstable murderous killer obsessed with Luke with one of his recons, but she wasn't a good person before that. If there is a consequence worth having, the show won't do it: see my post right above. With Sonny committing murder on Monica's property and Michael and Jason covering it up, that should be the last draw for Monica, and Michael and Jason should be banished from her property, only allowing Jake and Michael's kids, until they give Sonny up. But none of that will happen No, Carly demands that treatment of Michael and she might demand that treatment of Joss if it came down to it.

Ah, one of Lucas first storylines on this show was a love triangle involving him and his adopted cousins Maxie and Georgie. Whatever the girls feel towards their biodad Frisco, his brother Tony was their uncle through and through, especially after he and Bobbie allowed Maxie to have BJ's heart, and Lucas was raised by Tony and Bobbie since he was a baby. That storyline was so weird, I was relieved he came out as gay; chalk up his inapprioate feels towards his cousins was him unable to come to terms with being gay as a teen.

Bobbie was “curated” because Liz was freaked out after she was rape and Bobbie was a medical professional. Maybe because the writing had more depth, but the first iteration of LnL2 was only a couple years. She formed other relationships outside of the 4 Musketeers, especially when she became a nurse in 2005. Yes, Lucky had issues with Patrick and Jason(especially when he was high as a kite), but he didn’t police her friendships, especially with other women like Robin and Ephinany. Plus, when Emily took sides, it was mostly on Liz’s, especially when it involved her asshole brother Jason.