jordanpond

Agreed! Grace and Gordon are the only romantic couple in Harry's family in which I like both people in the couple. All season long, they've gotten so much less screen time than Harry and Nancy, Rosalie and Serge, And Violette and Victor. And now they've split up, despite seeming to me by far the most well suited of these couples! This show just doesn't make any sense any more.

Yes! Season one was so full of fun and risk and adventure. And even though Season Two covered more serious themes like the death of soldiers, the mystery surrounding Henri, and the threat to Harry's reputation, we also had tango parties and lively concerts and a sexy chocolate demonstration and flirty romances. And lots of funny moments. Now we're lucky if we get two or three moments per episode that actually makes us smile.

So last year we decided to add a flowering crabapple tree to the middle of our garden. At that time, it was in full bloom, so this spring is the first time we're getting to enjoy the full blooming process. The tree has these beautiful, deep pink buds, and each day new pink flowers are popping out all over. So what does our crabapple tree have to do with Selfridge's? My husband nicknamed it "Mr. Crabb Apple." I like getting to see good old Mr. Crabb Apple every day of the week.

So Stevie added a new piece of information tonight: that she maxed out her mother's credit card during the period when she was deciding if Elizabeth was worthy enough to have Stevie freeload at home . Just to make sure I have the right chronology: Stevie wastes her parents' money by quitting college on a whim. She decides that she will live free at home while writing a novel. Feeling she is being punished because her father wants her to actually do something, she reluctantly gets a job, from which she is later fired. During this time, she is not sure whether her mother is worthy of having Stevie free load at home, so she moves out. Oh, and maxes out some of her mother's credit cards. She ultimately decides that while she hates some things about her mother, her mother is nonetheless worthy of having Stevie free load at home. The only thing worse than this extraordinarily entitled way of thinking were the numerous times that Elizabeth would do some cringe-worthy little happy dance in every episode in which it looked like Stevie was going to "allow" Elizabeth to have Stevie freeload at home. I like so many things about this show, but the terrible way Stevie treats Elizabeth, and the truly embarrassing way in which Elizabeth lets Stevie walk all over her had me walk away from this show on more than one occasion.

Time for me to give credit where credit is due: I really liked Violette this episode! It was great seeing her really involved in the estates project, and I liked that she showed her independence in a fun way with Victor when she insisted on taking the wheel on the drive back. I was so glad that George did not give in. He really has quiet strength and it's making him become a more interesting character than he was before. He's still got that naive exterior, but he's very self assured. I don't know what will happen to him now, but he surely couldn't stay at the club any more. I'm hoping for some more Gordon and Grace really soon. And Mrs. Crabb.They always pick me up.

I'm just not seeing this at all. In addition to the examples given by AZ CHRISTIAN of how Miss Mardle has come to handle Mr. Grove with a backbone in past situations, this present situation was largely thrust on her. It started the day that Doris came to the store for Roger to treat her for her birthday, and that day Josie saw a man grab Doris' arm (and she was concerned in the wake of Kitty's assault). Later, It was Doris' guilty conscience that led her to confide in Josie about Billy.I don't see how anything Josie did translated to her wanting to be a doormat. She was kind before the death, and generous in handling the wake (which single women often do to help out a newly widowed man's family.) But doormat? I just don't see it.

I don't have a problem with the choice Mr. Grove made. What I had a problem with was how, once again, he made the totally selfish decision,and considered only what was best for him. . He showed no interest in what was best for Billy, or his other kids, or Ernest. He sent that baby out of his house not even knowing if he had a safe crib to sleep in for the night.That's the thing I have always disliked about him and continued to dislike about him after this episode. Everything is about what is best for HIM. He is a completely, utterly, selfish man. And where does he think he has the right to order Miss Mardle around? She should have walked right out the door. So if he couldn't stand the sight of the child, let him take care of the situation himself.

Funny you mentioned sociology professors, because we pretty much all wear suits. I respect my students as adults, but I never want to dress in a way in which my role as a professor is unclear. I think that a casual look is one of those things that has some of today's students thinking that any rules you make don't really apply to them and that you can be talked out of maintaining your policies and break rules just for them. I noticed that the student told her, rather than asked her, that he needed an extension. Sure, she said no just as easily in jeans as she would have in a suit, but I always feel that a suit maintains an image that says, I'm the professor here, don't even get the illusion that we're pals, and that I'll break some rule for you that everyone else has to follow.

I liked this episode, but remembering last year what a popular couple Mrs. Mary Dunbar ( and the man's name escapes me) were, I thought that this year their wedding preparations would have been an episode in itself. I would have preferred to focus on them and skip the father and daughter con artists. And I would have preferred it to be during an episode in which Elizabeth was back in Hope Valley. I'm really enjoying the back and forth between Elizabeth's home and Hope Valley, but Elizabeth has now missed the trial and the wedding, and that seems a lot to me. About Jack: in some ways he was his usual terrific self, happily pitching in long hours to build the school, and quietly confident that Elizabeth still held strong ties to Hope Valley. But my word, could he be dismissive of both his feelings for Elizabeth, and of Rosemary's feelings. The whole town knows that he and Elizabeth are romantically involved. Yet when Lee asked him Jack denied it. What is so terrible about stating that, yes, there is woman in Hope Valley that makes him happy. And as for Rosemary, the best thing that could happen for Rosemary, Elizabeth, and Jack is for Rosemary to get interested in a new man. So she does just that, and rather than be happy for her, he ridicules her. Just as it was with last week's show, seeing how warm and friendly and positive Charles is when he speaks to Elizabeth is making Jack's "always begin your conversations by teasing or saying something negative or refusing to admit something positive" way of speaking starting to stand out like a very sore and ugly thumb.

I really liked this. I'll definitely continue to tune in. As a college professor myself, I was not too happy to see the Professors McCord teaching in jeans. That looked terribly unprofessional. And I would never kiss my husband in front of students. I was happy, however, to see her flat out refuse to give that student an extension on his paper.

Hello, friends. If any of you want to speculate about what might happen in future episodes, would you please create a "speculation" thread and move the discussion there? That way each episode thread contains only what happened in that particular episode. Those of us who don't want to see future guesses can avoid the speculation thread. Thanks.

Since I haven't mastered the multiple-quote post, I'll have to randomly reply to some thoughts from a few of you that I found interesting. About the period clothing: Although I'm far from knowledgeable about the details, I did feel that when this series began last year that there was a little stricter period "look" in that the women wore hats outside, wore their hair up, and all had clothing that looked similar to what each other wore. By the end of the season, the loss of hats and the wearing of long hair did seem to change the "period" look of the show. I do give a lot if leeway to a show like this, because I think that a lot of factors among Coal Valley residents would make outfits less period identifiable including clothes that are homemade for comfort or warmth, rather than for style, borrowed clothes from a taller or shorter friend that would make the hemlines off, clothes that might be 10 or more years old and behind the times,etc. Despite that, I agree with all of you that Elizabeth's family, especially at dinner, would probably be the best example of what was period correct of the moment. But to be honest, I thought the gowns were so pretty, that I wasn't even thinking about whether they were representative of 1911 or so. I'll leave that up to those of you with a much more detailed eye than mine! SonOfABiscuit, I didn't notice it until you pointed it out, but Elizabeth was more silly this episode than her usual practical self. (I don't think Abigail did teach her how to cook last season, I think it was just a single cake for the fair.) But I agree that last year's Elizabeth would have been too smart to risk wasting food at the cafe by cooking a steak she didn't know how to make. I think last year's Elizabeth would have been thrilled that Rosemary could cook the hot food, and would have smartly taken over serving pie and coffee and collecting the money. I'm really enjoying reading all your interesting posts. Looking forward to the next episode!

I think you broke my heart a little there. I think that would be a very sad step backwards in self-esteem for Miss M. to ever entertain romantic thoughts for him again . I don't wish any thing bad for him , I just don't think he deserves a woman as good as Josie and didn't think he deserved Doris, either (knowing that he was hoping to cheat on Doris from the start.)

So I forgot to write but what I liked this episode. I thought that rotating display of all the autumn toned merchandise was wonderful! The color combinations were gorgeous, and it was one of those great slices of 100 years ago that the staff was giggly with excitement over the new technology of it all. Three cheers for Gordon's little bit of budding artistry to put together that all the missing things were in the same color scheme, even if the word "brown" offended Miss Mardle ' s sensibilities about the burnt sienna garment and Kitty's sensibilities that tortoise shell was a blend of colors. Equally funny was that his second success regarding the bloomers was a a complete accident. Not a bad start for our new and earnest deputy, The fundraiser for the soldiers' furniture looked like great fun. Great music and costumes and dancing. Prior to Doris' tragic death, I was thinking that the solution to the baby Earnest situation was handled so nicely by all parties involved. That was another of those little "slices of life" from 100 years ago that we can still relate to today. No lawsuits or threats, just some decent people who made a mistake and are trying to come to a way to make everyone happy. They looked like they were on their way to a pretty happy future. The outcome was tragic, of course, but I thought the whole course of events was very well done. George was wonderful. I hope Kitty and Frank turn out okay, but he did let her down in several ways, including sometimes putting his needs above hers. But Kitty is Kitty, and a big part of being Kitty is being taken to restaurant, so I guess their little lunch date upon hearing the good news was the best possible start she could take toward a new beginning. Fingers crossed for some happiness for Kitty!

Okay, so I tried to quote multiple posts and it was a disaster. So, I'll chat with you one person at a time. Ddawn23, I've been really enjoying Mrs. Crabb, too. And I agree with you that early on, she wasn't the type of person to shop at Selfridge's. But I think her current enthusiasm isn't really a contradiction, but rather a gradual "winning over" of her to the fun of browsing. I recall that during the war she came to Selfridge's as part of her massive hoarding of merchandise. And I'm not sure, but I think she also attended the king's visit or some other major event and bought herself a hat. Between all the beautiful merchandise, and the fun of sharing tea in the Palm Court with Mr. Crabb, I think she just gradually transformed from the old-time "necessities only" shopper into the "Selfridge" shopper who is there to have fun. She is far more interesting and fun than the other senior women (Lois, Marie) and I wish she were on more often. LittleIggy, I know that a few Chicago area posters have said that the Violet and Rosalie accent is pretty accurate. So I wouldn't be having such a problem with it if that had been the sisters' accent in prior seasons. But the sisters' accents from seasons one and two were much less pronounced. So I'm completely with you that it's now really annoying, especially since Violette is always shouting. It's as annoying as a goose honking. Even though Rosalie's accent is slightly less pronounced, and she doesn't shout all the time, I'm having a really hard time buying this actress as Rosalie, because she sounds, looks, and acts completely different than the old Rosalie. There's nothing the same at all. The season is more than half over, and she still feels like some Selfridge cousin who joined the show. Not a shred of the season one/two Rosalie at all. So I guess both Selfridge sisters are disappointments for me, each for an awful lot of reasons.

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Well, .I certainly enjoyed the premier. Peter ' s widow took me completely by surprise. I thought Lee was a great addition, and I thought a saw mill was the perfect new beginning: the opportunity for a lot of local employment in an industry that appears to be much safer. Well done, show! I also found Rosemary to be so much more enjoyable as a woman pursuing her own romantic interest than someone clinging to a man whom she had discarded and wanted to win back. I liked her fun, easy rapport with Lee. Also, I really enjoyed the scenes at Elizabeth's home. I thought it was a really well-rounded episode. But alas, the bad. Towards the end of last season I was growing a little weary that Elizabeth and Jack's main method of communication is teasing. They're in their twenties, they're educated and very responsible, and the teasing is starting to sound very, very juvenile to me. Why not walk out of a restaurant and simply talk about how good the food was? Clearly, she took him there because she thought they would both enjoy it. Why not talk about the riding lesson in terms of how much fun it is to do this activity together? Discussing the former as teasing about the rich vs. middle class ways to eat, and the latter as something for which Elizabeth must "pay" with a kiss all seemed silly to me. I found her conversations with Charles much more enjoyable. There was a little joking there, too, but overall it sounded a lot more like a friendly, caring, sharing conversation between two adults. I wish most of her and Jack's conversations were more like this. One more note: as much as Jack has many qualities I admire, I think he is too quick to make a decision, and "drop" it on Elizabeth. I think at the party, he should have just sat back and enjoyed the music. If he felt the need to leave early, why not consult with Elizabeth privately? She clearly had been expecting him to stay longer, and just making a decision to leave, and then informing her within earshot of others seemed rather selfish. Overall, this was very enjoyable for me! There are a lot of fresh beginnings for this season to explore.

Well stated! I do agree with you. (Although my feelings about whether Mary suffered don't have anything to do with what you wrote about how much Edith suffered. Not all of us completely like the one and dislike the other☺) . Yes, agreed. Mary lived with a lot of fear and worry for years. Those were a certain type of bad consequence of their own. That suspense about how things would turn out kept things very interesting for long time. But I was referring more to a whole tone that has been set, where this show has created such a long-term pattern for Mary in which whatever short-term suffering she endures, she will in fact get exactly what she wants in the end. Whether it's the Pamuk scandal never going public, marrying the man she loved, having Downton saved from financial ruin, or becoming the controlling heiress of Matthew's portion of the estate. If this were any other TV show, or even another character on this show, there would be lot of suspense as to whether the polite and handsome, but clearly not smitten, Henry Talbot will eventually show as much interest in Mary as she already does in him. The answer? He will if Mary wants him to. Oh, she might worry about it, but if she wants it, it'll happen. Despite some of the earlier and quite real consequences she paid for Pamuk, there has become a very predictable pattern in that Mary ultimately gets exactly what she wants. And that predictability hurts the show in my opinion.

Helenamonster, I liked your whole post, but I have just one nitpick of disagreement. Although the Pamuk situation left the threat of consequences in the air for a good long time, Mary has never really paid consequences for anything. She was threatened with disgrace but it never happened; she faced marrying a man whom she didn't love in order to keep Pamuk a secret, but she got out of marrying him; she faced having the man whom she did love marry another woman, but that never happened either. I agree that they kept the suspense going a long time. And that kept things very interesting over the course of the first two seasons. And I agree that the more recent stories don't do that.

I guess we'll have to disagree, because I am one of those females in the audience, and I do not find this show to be an example of the female gaze. I find it to be a male gaze presented as if it were a female gaze. What female gaze was being represented at the very extended view of Jenny ' s breasts being exposed? Or a bed scene in which the female lead's breasts and buttocks are shown but her husband (Frank's) body isn't shown? Claire being comfortable with her own sexuality and with her body is a completely different thing than displaying the body of Catriona or other women for the audience to see. It boils down to a show with a a female lead in which, thus far, female nudity has been featured far more prominently than that of men. I can't think of any definition of feminism that would applaud that.

Agreed, good point. The Crawleys weren't responsible for any of this (other than Violet's well-intentioned involvement at the end.) I don't think Daisy ever though she would lose her job. But I think she was so used to being at the very bottom of the power structure, I don't think it ever crossed her mind that she could say no. Even the most powerful servants had very little power over their own lives: small bedrooms that could be invaded by staff or family or the duke at any time, extremely long hours, etc. And with Daisy being at the bottom of the hierarchy of servants, I don't think she ever thought she had a choice to stop things from going too far. I found that a very sympathetic story line. Downton didn't control only those areas directly related to her employment, it also controlled decisions about her personal life. She was the best example because her position was so low, but it was true for the others, too. Gwen ' s typewriter, Thomas' letters, and Edna ' s book were things that most of us would consider private property and things that should be considered our own, but if you worked at Downton Abbey, clearly they were not viewed that way.

Funny, but I found the Daisy and William story to be one of those well-developed storylines that gave good insight into how really powerless any servant, but particularly the lowest of the low, can be to claim ownership of even the most private areas of her life. I thought they did a great job of bringing together a few forces: Daisy's extremely low and powerless position among the servants, the staff's complete adoration of the lovely William, and Mrs. Patmore's own deeply felt motive (due to the death of Archie) to never let another soldier go to battle feeling alone, and showed how a silly "symapthy" kiss could snowball all the way into a forced marriage to a man Daisy didn't love romantically. Back then, I thought the show gave a much more balanced view in that several really tough things about the servants' lives, including not having control over things that should rightfully be their own, were exposed in the shows' stories. In some ways servants' lives were shown to be really difficult. But the show seems to have shifted in focus, in which the Crawleys all seem to think servants are lucky to be employed and living such a "great life" at Downton. And the servants all either cheerfully agree at how lucky they are, or they are presented as annoying or ungrateful. But never actually justified in wanting more privacy, or shorter hours, or more autonomy, or better pay. So to me, the multiple-episode story that kept carrying along Daisy further and further away from what she wanted was one of the last really good examples of showing how powerless these servants could be. I miss that kind of honesty in the seasons of late.

Although I personally prefer no nudity, I have enjoyed several shows that have had it. My problem with this show is that, although there is not a real lot of nudity, there is a lot more for the female lead than for all the other male characters put together. I always find it annoying when female bodies are displayed much more than male bodies, especially during sex scenes in which they supposedly need nudity to make it realistic and yet show only the woman but not the man naked. And I find it especially annoying in a show such as Outlander, in which a woman is the lead. Claire does more nude scenes, by far, than anyone. There have been TV shows full of nudity, such as Boardwalk Empire and The Sopranos, in which the male lead never did a single nude scene! They were shown in bed with nude women, but they themselves were never shown nude. Yet Claire is shown nude by herself, nude in bed in a sex scene when Frank is not shown nude, etc. It's the sexism of it that bothers me, not the total amount of nudity in the show.

Badger, I think you are being much too kind to the writing staff. I thought the fact that a lawyer would secretly have enough money to save Downton for decades to come was ridiculously far fetched. It was one of several things in season three that signaled that the quality of the show was going downward. Season three seems to reveal the two major flaws to come in all future seasons: plot points in a new story line that wildly contradict some previously established point (Mr. Swire had a middle-class income and couldn't afford to pay his debt to Richard), and repetitive, repetitive, repetitive story lines. In season three, Alfred, Ivy, And Jimmy all joined the cast, stayed nearly two seasons each, and left the show, and in that time 90% of their story line was a repeat of season one, in which person A likes person B who likes person C (who likes person D).

Interesting post, but it actually brought up two more questions. I never got the impression that Matthew, as you suggest, might have been attracted to Mary in part because of her social class. He started out reluctant to accept his place at Downton, and even when he more fully embraced it, I never felt the appeal of it all made a difference. I always got the impression that his feelings for her were simply for her and not her social position. Also, you mentioned, as have others received recently, that Matthew worked for Mr. Swire, but I don't recall ever hearing that stated. Was that something mentioned only on the European versions, or something that I just missed? I agree with you that I did not enjoy seeing him with a woman who treated him so poorly, which I thought went from the time they first met, all the way through their marriage. I didn't even find her very warm with him in their last moments together with their newborn. I always wanted to see him with someone nicer.