KerleyQ

It's like the show wants to undo everything appealing about Ivy to make sure she doesn't outshine Steffy in her role as the ideal woman that every man wants.

Agreed. Both Jack and Phyllis should have issues about the Marco thing. Phyllis because the man she loves looks exactly like the man who repeatedly raped her for months, and Jack should be feeling all kinds of emotions. I could see him feeling a touch of betrayal/anger, because Phyllis didn't know that wasn't him, jealousy, because another man was with her, and some guilt, because he believes this wouldn't have happened to her if it wasn't for his rivalry with Victor and his relationship with Kelly. Emotions after a traumatic experience aren't often rational. Watching a couple deal with that could be compelling. It's absurd that they decided that would be too gross, but Phylly is just the height of hot, sexy romance.

I loathe what they did to her, but, yeah, I'd feel like that would have mitigated it a touch - her having conversations with Laura, Nik, or Lucky about how he's safer being away from Sonny's world, both in that he wouldn't be taking on any dangerous jobs and because, with a new face and new personality, and the mob world believing he was dead, he would no longer have a target on his back. Hell, Lucky, with all of his "darkness" could have potentially been torn on that idea, because he'd maybe appreciate the idea of not remembering all of the "darkness" BS. (And I think the "darkness" was a load of BS, but, since that's the angle he's working, it would have worked when he discussed that kind of motivation for Liz). I still would have hated what they did with the character, but it would have been less obnoxious than "because it's my turn!" And I could see that reasoning working if her finding out happened after Jake was back and they were married (which is when, imo, she should have found out the truth). She could have reasoned that he finally had a chance to have a real relationship with Jake, without worrying about the danger the mob life presents. Again, it still would have been shitty, because that ignores his other child, but it would have been a lot less character destruction (and would have made more narrative sense) than the shit we got.

Now I'm trying to remember if AssPratt was still around on GH when we had the gross that was Nik cheating on Emily (and being a general ass to her) because she wasn't getting over being raped by his doppelganger quickly enough to fulfill his needs. Because this is just a different version of the same kind of grossness. Jack and Phyllis were both victims here, but somehow, Billy, the guy who's screwing his brother's wife while she's vulnerable from that violation, is the hero in our story, and Jack, who was just as much of a victim as Phyllis in that whole Marco mess, is being victimized all over again, in a different way. At least GH did the bare minimum and acknowledged that Emily had a problem being with Nik after being raped by someone with his face, before they launched into the grossness. Here, we've just gone right into the gross, and then, retroactively, it'll be "oh, but Marco..." without us ever seeing Phyllis deal with the concept before she launched herself onto her brother-in-law's pasty dick. So, even though I believe that a woman likely would have issues dealing with that, I'm going to have exactly zero sympathy when it gets trotted out, because it's just going to be an attempt to justify this skeevy Phylly shit.

I think MCE is good when she's playing bad. As a "heroine" she's very one note. I hated Annie on AMC when she first showed up as Ryan's perfect little sweet wife. I loved her when she gained an edge and got involved with the Chandlers. I don't know why Y&R won't play her as the schemer she should be instead of the sweet little devoted to her husband, loving mother, ingenue they seem to want her to be. Chelsea is a woman who raped a guy for cash and essentially sold him the resulting baby. Not to say a character can never reform, but we have to actually see them put in that work. And, in this case, being the "good girl" does not play to the actress's strengths. So it's just all around a bad idea. I'd say that now is the perfect time to have her re-discover her bad girl edge, what with her husband dead and her "best friend" responsible for his death. But, of course, if she's going to be paired up with Nick, she'll be even more of a good girl. The citizens of GC will have to genuflect in her presence. And she will raise ALL of the children.

I think that the people who have already noticed it will be at least a little relieved that someone on screen said it (although, yes, it would be more fulfilling to have someone say it who would be taken more seriously). The people who are just happily shipping BM and KeMo wont take it seriously coming from Maxie, Carly, Monica, Sam, Sonny, Michael, Spinelli, or anyone else. Unfortunately, I think that, with these writers, the best acknowledgment we can ever hope for is one that isn't meant to be taken seriously.

That's the first time I've seen that clip, so I have to ask - how does Greendenchel get Nik's death being remotely Liz's fault? Even if you could somehow tie Nik's death to the Jakeson secret, Nik knew that secret first. This was never some scheme Liz roped innocent Nik into. Nik took off with those diamonds all on his own, and his being killed by Valentin had exactly squat to do with Liz. Not to mention that she has zero room to talk to anyone about keeping Jason's identity a secret, what with being the woman who took cash to pretend to be his wife and tried to get him into bed under those circumstances.

Just adding my two cents here: to me, the difference between who Jason was before Dock 'n Roll and after isn't just down to the actors bringing different energy levels. BM could have still played the sanctimonious, never wrong, moral center of the show with some actual emotion to his portrayal, compared to SBu's complete lack of emotion (save a key scene here and there). But this isn't just that he's not the blinking Borg. He's giggly and goofy. Someone, anyone, should mention it somehow. Even if it's just Monica saying that it makes her happy to see him so relaxed and happy now. Obviously, we're not going to have the writers dare write Sam saying something about how she enjoys how "fun" their time together is now, because we can't taint the twu wuv of the ages by his wife acknowledging that Jason was an insufferable pill who can't have been a barrel of laughs back then. But, someone, anyone, should say something. If Maxie had been involved in setting up their wedding, it would have been perfectly in character for her to comment on it. She has no filter. It's exactly the kind of thing she would say.

Yeah, I think that, at this point, it's gone on so long, and with both of his parents dead (or "dead") they should play this one long term. Honestly, I'd rather see the kid stay with Sharon and Dylan than to have him taken from them and raised by Nick and Chelsea (which we all know is what would happen if the truth was found out now). For bonus "I don't want to see this" points, Nick would go all vengeful on Sharon and keep Faith away from her again.

I'm just telling myself that Lucas isn't there because Carly was supposed to invite him and "forgot." Because, despite how happy she's acting for JaSam, you just know that, internally, she's like "bitch is marrying my Jason, she doesn't get to have my brother, too."

Best clip ever. Every time I watch it is like the first time all over again.

Yeah, I can see the newbies still signing on. But the old school people should never want to come back. And, yes, Sarah should definitely stay away. I can't imagine, in her shoes, what assurances I'd need to even consider trusting them enough to sign on for another season. And, really, I think the number of people who production would even entertain the idea of conceding to demands is basically two - CT and John. (Although why they cater to John's obnoxious ass, when he shows up for about 75% of the seasons already, is beyond me.) The only other cast members I could see them willing to negotiate some demands with would be if they thought they had a shot at getting Abram and that guy who messed around with Cara Maria on Bloodlines on for a Rivals season. You just know that's their dream Rivals pairing at this point.

They really should have just made him a new character. There is nothing "Jason" about him. The most like Jason he's been was when he was under Helena's mind control. At least that was relatively Borg-y. But no? I have no idea who the hell this guy is.

That's my biggest question in the whole thing. How does anyone trust production any more? Even the ones who generally just show up for the free vacations have to take pause at the idea that, if they do manage to win, they might still not get to take home a penny of the prize money. And now that they've all actually seen the twist play out, and they've seen Sarah kick ass all season long and walk away empty handed, I would imagine that the finales are going to be such a clusterfuck most of the time. We'll see teammates aggressively competing against each other, instead of working together, because nobody trusts that they'll get a share of the money if they aren't the top performer on their team. Even if there is no twist announced ahead of time, they'll all just operate on the assumption that there is a possibility it can happen at any time.

As others have mentioned, this is exactly what Frank (and Ron) did on OLTL. They wanted to tell a serial killer story, but they didn't have a firm hold on who the killer was going to be. It wasn't about any of the characters, including the killer, it was just a serial killer story for the sake of telling a serial killer story. Then they ended up pinning it on a character who would have had to put a rip in the space time continuum in order to have committed at least one of the killings, just because they couldn't come up with anyone else to pin it on. (Rumor was they were going to pin it on a character that had been newly introduced, but the actor sucked, so they quickly dropped him and carried on with the story without any idea who was doing the killing.) Same deal here - they wanted to tell a story about a hospital serial killer for the sake of telling that story, but they didn't build it around any character, and there's just no sense at all to the reveal. Even when a killer is revealed to be someone nobody guessed, there should be a moment of "oh, but that makes sense now that I think about it," and you can go back and think over some of the little clues that were planted here and there and say "oh, yeah, that should have tipped me off!" There was none of that with the Paul reveal. Even days later, it's just "yeah, but, why? What was the point??" There's no point, other than Paul adjusting his cuffs once, that any of us can point back to and have that "Oh, yeah..." moment. And even that one moment happened extremely late in the story, because they didn't decide on him until extremely late in the story. The shock can't be shock for the sake of shock. It has to still make sense. This makes none. It's merely Frank and company patting themselves on the back for surprising everyone.

I love how she has a problem with Sabrina (who is, overall, pretty bland), but not with Kiki, the girl who played her two boys against each other and bounced back and forth between them, including working with Morgan to drug Michael. Nope, Kiki's the best.

I could buy that. It's always been obvious that Bill wants to vicariously fuck her through one of his sons. So I could totally see that being why Wyatt would want her. He's always felt like "the other son" to Liam's golden boy. And it's backed up by him wanting Liam's house after he landed Steffy. He wants to be the golden boy. Liam was gross today. "I know you can't encourage me, but I can encourage you." Shut the fuck up waffle, before I drown you in syrup and feed you to the bear that hangs out the Forrester cabin.

So, Adam died in an explosion again? From this point on, every time a new guy shows up in town, Chelsea should be like "Adam? Is it you? You can just tell me upfront. We don't need to do this dance for months." This just made me laugh. Leave it to a soap to have one cabin where everyone hides out. And I would fully buy that everyone in town knows about the hideout cabin, but Paul and that oak tree he spawned never think to look there. "Welp, the only thing we can do is to keep making a loop between Chelsea's place and Victor's house, demanding that someone tell us where they could be hiding. If only we could think of some place in the area where people could be hiding out. It's a mystery. Oh, wait, can we stop at the liquor store? Nikki says she's running low on vodka, and asked if we could bring some with us on our next trip out there."

Right now, the character just feels like a blank canvas onto which everyone around him projects whatever they want or need him to be.

"I know you couldn't have done anything, but....you didn't do anything!!" She's such a manipulative bitch.

Even being a serial killer, Paul is still a step up from Franco or Sonny (or Morgan, if I'm being honest).

Watching that clip, and knowing exactly how character destroying that shit was, it makes me realize whey TIIC think they can just make Franco our hero. Because fans of characters like Liz, Sam, Nik, etc, can grudgingly wipe the slate of shit like this. But, the difference is that these are characters who have been around for a long time, who their fans have an established history and affection for. Even the fans who don't like those characters can often get exactly how character destroying some shit is. They still don't like them and will often still use that same character destroying shit against them, but they also can get why the character's fans are bitter about whatever the shitty writing did to the character. Franco was shit from jump. There's nobody to sit around and say "but, Franco would have never done that! They threw him under the bus!" You'd think that people in the business of writing and producing soap operas would realize that one important fact. Even a lot of people who have disliked Carly for years, and seen her do some pretty awful things at times, can look at Carly/Franco and be like "seriously?" The only thing about Franco getting that kind of side eye from most viewers is his repeated whining about how people won't just get over his serial killing and other illegal activities.

And she even acknowledged to him today that they were wrong in thinking that Wyatt could talk his mother into breaking things off with Eric. So, she acknowledges that he is not at fault here, she'll still have to see Quinn regardless of her marital status with Wyatt, since Quinn will be working at FC and living with her grandfather (and, actually, her home with Wyatt is the one place she and Wyatt can control her being at, so they can keep here away just as well as Liam would be able to keep her away from his place), but she still acts like this is somehow reason to leave Wyatt? "You can't do the impossible, so we're through." Wyatt needs to get his head out of her ass, see her for the manipulative bitch she is, and happily kick her ass out to go be bored out of her mind with his lameass brother.

What Franco doesn't know is that God stopped taking calls from that hospital a long damn time ago. He had to block the number when dumbass Sonny kept calling to slobber about the latest loved one to fall victim to his lifestyle.

I still think this was like her practice run. Next time she dies, she can do better on the will and ominous gifts. Are we all ignoring that their pregnancy coincides with the talk about the StavLu embryo? Because I'm still thinking there are decent odds that the embryo is currently residing in Sam's womb. That would be so very Helena.