KerleyQ

I don't know why I keep forgetting that Steffy is necessarily going to be off screen for a few months soon. So, we can't really get a lot of a Steam reunion, if any in the immediate future, unless SC is going to take some time off, too, and they write the two of them deciding to get out of town together for a while? Maybe Finn finds out about the kisses, we get the Finn/Taylor hook up, Steffy finds out, freaks out, and leaves town?

That's going to be my real test with Liam - have they made me hate him so much that I won't even sympathize with him not wanting the guy who was an accomplice in his daughter's kidnapping to live with and help raise her?

"Now he finally sees that Hope was the problem." Um, fucking what? This is the first time that Hope has been "the problem." The rest of the time it was your psycho brother, obsessing over Hope for years and committing all kinds of crimes and manipulations in his desperate quest to get into her pants. It's going to be kind of hilarious if all of this crap is just maneuvering to reunite Steam. Is there anyone left who wants that? I don't think I've seen a single Steffy fan anywhere on the internet who doesn't vastly prefer Steffy having a husband who has never looked at another woman over the waffle she'd be getting by default. And Liam fans can't be jumping up and down to see him becoming the biggest asshole on the show to prop Thomas to facilitate it. I cackled at Finn saying that Thomas could have stopped Hope from kissing him or just not let himself be alone with her in Rome in the first place. Oh, it's going to go down when he finds out about those two kisses Steffy hasn't told him about. I'm disgusted that we had to see Hope reassuring Thomas like he's this poor innocent flower.

I really hope this is like a one time deal, just her deciding to burn it all down herself, so that Liam can't come back and try to rebuild things. And, apparently, they really are going with the whole "Thomas is really reformed now" thing. Still think it would have been better to show him actually putting in the work instead of just deciding to make Liam an irredeemable asshole to make Thomas look better by comparison.

Yeah, that is what I thought was a cowbell, but I can see now what you're saying about it being part of the trophy.

Is that a cowbell hanging right by the black diary? Could someone here be related to Will Ferrell?

I so wanted Hope to really unleash some anger on Liam today, more than that tiny bit of it she showed when she realized he had to have already gone to Steffy. we all know that Thomas has done awful shit to the two of them, but Steffy's resume of terror against their relationship is far lengthier, including essentially abducting Hope twice. But, of course, Liam can't get his rocks off with Thomas, so he can't squeak out of that "biggest threat" category like Steffy has for years. I still don't want to see Hope and Thomas together, and I thought it was ridiculous that Hope went running to him for comfort when she has Brooke, RJ, Katie, Donna, or Deacon to go seeking hugs from. But, what I kind of do want to see if Hope and Steffy bonding and having some nice girls nights out where they both realize and laugh over what a complete asshat waffle Liam is. Kind of a more real version of what their mothers were going to do. And in their case, it could maybe even really work, since Steffy has a husband who treats her a million times better than Liam ever would and has eyes for nobody but her, so there's no reason for any friendship there to devolve into another fight. Maybe it turns out that all they needed to be able to fulfill that dream of raising their kids together as a blended family was for them both to be done with his waffling ass. And, maybe in six months or so, they can bring in some guy from the FC offices in Europe who Hope had a fling with when she was working there. I don't like how they are dressing RJ, but, then, does anyone on this show have a consistently decent wardrobe?

When Bill and Wyatt exist, why is Liam the Spencer character we get 24/7? I want to see Douglas hanging out with Bill and Wyatt. Can we get scenes of him spending time with them because all of the other adults in his life are dealing with shit?

That checks out with Jayne saying her relative was born in 1946. Is there anywhere to see a good screen shot of the clue wall? I always feel like they move over it so fast or only show one or two objects in a scene, that I never get a really good look at it.

Since Steffy is being firm in her "nope, not an option" stance with Liam, I think I have some idea of what's going to happen. (All speculation on my part). Liam is going to stick to his desire for a divorce. Hope is feeling so overwhelmed with guilt that she's not going to want anything to do with Thomas, even with Liam asking for a divorce. But, now that she's given Thomas that encouragement in Rome, he's going to be convinced he really has a shot, and he's going to take the express train to creepy town again, until Hope ends up in a situation that Liam needs to rescue her from. And given that this show does nothing original these days, he'll probably get the heads up to rescue Hope from Douglas who will, once again, have overheard some of daddy's evil plans.

I'm really hoping that Bill tears him a new one when he goes running to him now. Since Bill has been in such a contemplative mood, regretting his romantic fuck ups of the past, and saying he just wants to get Katie back and have his family again, I would expect him to not react well to Liam throwing it all away over one kiss, no matter how much he doesn't like Thomas. I also want him to tear him another new one if he dares try that "guess she ended up being just like Brooke after all" line around him.

I know Liam apologized to Steffy for the kisses, but he looked so pissed off that she wasn't just falling into his arms. He really got pretty fucking comfortable having two women on the hook all these years, and he is not happy that Steffy didn't get with the program.

I like that a lot of the cast seems to be onto Jayne already. Yes, there are a few who are all "oh, mama Jayne! We love you!" But, a lot of them are onto that act. And I think Travis helped undo her good name a little bit on the way out when he told Gabriel (with Chris sneaking around listening in) that he showed her the clue and she knew exactly who it refers to. Monet was smart to tell everyone she just pulled Travis's clue to confirm his identity. Chris is definitely not someone you want knowing you checked out his clue. He's sneaky, and he's already working to ingratiate himself with multiple people. No need to get on his radar. I know people suspect she pulled someone other than Travis, but they don't know who she did pull. Overall, I don't think this cast is as good at this game as the cast of the first season. It's like all of them (except for one or two people) think that they need permission to start speculating about who someone is, and they can only look hard at one or two people per episode. And you become a target of the whole house by checking out one person's clue? How stupid is that? I can see Shayne being mad about him getting her clue, but why would the rest of the cast say that paints a target on his back? Instead, it should be "of course he looked at Shayne's clue. She's one of the people that isn't giving the rest of us anything to work with." As much as I liked Travis, picking him was the smart move on Gabriel's part, given what he knows. He thinks that he and Jayne are now the only people who know who Shayne's relative is, so that's something he can keep in his pocket in case he gets picked to be the guesser again. Everyone knew who Travis was, so if Gabriel picked Shayne this time, and nobody else's identity became obvious enough in the next episode, whoever picks would have picked Travis, which would leave Gabriel without an accurate guess in his pocket. And, yes, Jayne, we get it. It's a game, and you want to win. We could do with at least fifty percent less gloating about your lies in your confessionals, though. I really hope someone figures her out and sends her home soon.

The only thing that could have made me enjoy Steffy more today would have been if, when Liam said he doesn't see how he can go forward with Thomas being in their lives, she would have said "well, if you're not sure how to do that, you can probably ask Hope for tips on how she's stayed with you despite me being in the picture." I also would have loved for her to hit him more in the face with what Hope and Finn have forgiven the two of them for, compared to what Hope has done. "She and Finn forgave you and I for having sex and it being possible you were my baby's father. A kiss seems like a walk in the park compared to that." Credit to her, though, for repeatedly telling him to go back to his wife and family, and for making it clear that she is no longer an option for him. I'm guessing that part about pretending him kissing her didn't happen is going to end up coming back to bite her in the ass, though. If I had to guess, I'd put money Liam blurting it out to Hope to hurt her, and then it will snowball from there. (And he probably won't even be fully honest with her that Steffy rejected him and told him to cut it the fuck out, so the story will get around sounding like she was a fully enthusiastic participant.) She really needs to tell Finn what happened and make it clear that she put a stop to it. I'm still liking RJ. I liked when he told Hope she had to spit it out herself to their mother, he wasn't going to do it for her.

I was so bummed when the previous Thomas left, because he and Sally were so good. (Of course, Sally had chemistry with literally everyone on the show). The writers trashed every single bit of that character development when they brought him back. I can't even see the Thomas that was with Sally and this Thomas as the same character. Also, it's always bugged me that they tried to act like his head injury was responsible for all his bad behavior, and he was just such a great guy after that was corrected. No, the head injury was the reason for the Hopequin mess, but he had no head injury when he was abusing Douglas and planning on drugging Hope to have sex with him while going so far as to murder a young woman to keep the Beth secret. He's always been a shitty person, he just pulled the earnest good guy act after the brain surgery the same way he's pulling it now. And everyone in his life was so scared by him almost dying that they went along with it.

I love how his family all think that everyone being mad at him for five minutes and him going to a couple therapy sessions means he's suffered, repented, and redeemed himself. If they really wanted to redeem the character, they should have had him really on the outs with everyone for a significant time. Have him get a job somewhere else, maybe even some manual labor. Then have Vinny's sister (or cousin, or some other loved one) show up in town, pissed off at Thomas and looking for answers about his death. He helps her come to terms with Vinny's death and maybe even stops her from trying to get revenge on Liam and Bill. And do a slow burn love story there. Then, legitimately falling in love helps him see that Hope and Caroline were both unhealthy obsessions, which leads to him getting some therapy and being really happy and content in his life as it is. Then he reaches out to his family, Hope, Brooke, and Liam to apologize, just because he believes he owes them the apology, not trying to regain anything. All of that should take about a year. Then, maybe you have the "HFTF is in trouble" storyline (which would be more believable after a year or more of him being away instead of them supposedly suffering when there wasn't even time for a non-Thomas line to have launched yet).

I just got caught up on the last two episodes, and, I swear, the only person on this show I can really relate to is RJ, with his dawning horror as he realized shit must have happened between his brother and sister. Taylor is just the worst, which is amazing on a show where this week's Liam exists. She was trying so damn hard to gaslight Brooke, and Brooke, thankfully, was having none of that shit. Taylor, you are the one who broke your pact. Brooke and Ridge having some level of feelings for each other isn't a violation of your pact. You knew they love each other. Your pact wasn't for Brooke to shut off her feelings, it was an agreement that you were both backing off of that seesaw and prioritizing being friends over competing for Ridge's dick. Your pact also had fuckall to do with your sociopath of a son. So stop trying to lean on that shit, especially when you knew damn well that Brooke wasn't all in on trusting Thomas and wasn't just going to magically get over what he did to her and her family. I was proud of Brooke for not letting her manipulate her with that crap. Now we come to Liam, that fucker. I might consider becoming a Steffy fan if, when he said that he was asking for a divorce and couldn't get past Hope kissing Thomas, Steffy would have said something like "are you sure you want to burn your marriage down over one kiss when she was able to forgive you, and me, for having sex not too long ago?" She also should have slammed the door in his face when he opened with "I noticed Finn's car isn't in the driveway, is he gone?" She should be fucking indignant that he thinks he can just come drop in on her home, where she lives with her husband, who has never been anything but good to Liam, despite having good reason to distrust him, and throw her marriage into jeopardy because his ego is hurting, and he expects whichever woman he isn't with to be ready and able to step in and ride his dick the minute the other one displeases him. Seriously, Steffy, have some self-respect and some respect for the husband who already managed to forgive you for this bullshit once, and kick Waffle in his tiny balls. Credit to Wyatt for at least trying to talk some sense into Liam. I sincerely hope he and Hope end up together and she never looks back at Liam or Thomas.

I've been wondering that, too. I remember the same thing - Douglas "marrying" them in the cabin after they all busted Thomas at his wedding to Zoe. I don't remember there every being any follow up to that "marriage" to make it legal.

I'm thinking Steffy must not have too forcefully ended the Rome kiss or ripped into him for it, or he wouldn't be going back for another one so soon. I can't stand Steffy 95% of the time, but I'm still feeling anger on her behalf about how obvious Liam is about using her and considering her his backup fuck, even when she's in another committed relationship. He may talk about how much he likes and respects her, but he does not even come close to treating her like someone he respects. And I hope Finn punches him in the throat. And I really want Hope to find out about both the Rome kiss and this one, and let's finally give her the opportunity to truly rip into him for what a waffling asshole he is. He dares lecture her about how Thomas is the one person who can break their marriage (and, yeah, I one hundred percent understand why he considers Thomas a bigger betrayal than just about any other guy), but Steffy has always been the bigger and more permanent threat. And he proves it by leaving Road Runner smoke clouds in his wake when he goes running to her every single time he has any reason (valid or not) to be upset with Hope. Hope has lived with the spectre of Steffy over their relationship ever since Steffy imprinted on Liam when she couldn't have Bill. Liam has lived with the idea of Hope having feelings for Lurch for about a week. Liam should be upset and hurt, sure. But, given his history, he should also be the one who, after a little time to lick his wounds (alone), is suggesting that they get some marriage counseling and find a way to work through this (or figure out if they're just not good for each other), because he knows he's done way worse to her more than once, so he owes her a metric shit ton of grace.

I haven't watched today's yet. Are you telling me the damn waffle went and kissed Steffy again? For fuck's sake, Liam.

Knowing now that she wants on one of those shows, I could see her thinking that, since she didn't get more than one episode to "audition" for more reality show roles, she'd throw a huge dramatic fit to be the talk of the premiere episode. Then she'd just need to hope that some reality producer would decide she's the kind of drama they need. Of course, she'll never admit that, because you don't pull back the veil if you want a career in reality shows.

There are some current and former NBA players who also sing so that one isn't out of the realm of possibility. I know Damian Lillard does (but he doesn't have a ring). And Shaq has put out albums at some point in the past (and he has multiple rings). I'm pretty sure Iman Shumpert sings, and he has won a ring. Now that I think of it, he may be my guess for JR's relative. The only cast members I feel fairly certain of (without googling, so this is still speculation): Hugo - He's got to be Jimmy Carter's grandson. We know he was lying about the athlete part, so his relative is his grandpa. And I know Jimmy definitely won the Nobel Prize. I'll be shocked if his relative ends up being anyone but Jimmy. Shayne - that clue was absolutely about Eddie Murphy, with Coming to America and Buckwheat references. And then, of course, we have Carly. Jesus, Carly. First, she made it beyond obvious to everyone. She practically hyperventilated when anyone suggested any clue on the wall was about Tom Hanks. And she was way too obvious about trying to redirect people when they touched on any Hanks clues. I don't like Hugo, but of course he was going to pick her. She was the only really slam dunk guess, and he didn't want to go home. That meltdown was really something. I thought it was enough when they told her to say goodbye to her castmates, and she just stormed out. But then, she really went for it. Shrieking about screen time, complaining that the clues were too obvious. the dig about Gabriel figuring out the bench, even though he's not smart. Damn, she had a little bit of everything. Hugo did everyone a huge favor sending her home. Could you imagine how much worse she would have gotten over later episodes when it only became more obvious who she was related to? As others have said, it was her own fault for using the Oscar as one of her truths. She should have lied her ass off about his biggest award and been honest about the other two items. Because if one of the cast members says their relative won an Oscar and then you walk in to see that clue wall and there's that iconic bench, you know exactly who their relative is. The only downside for Hugo in sending Carly home was that, in her desperation to redirect people from the Hanks clues, she was convincing people the astronaut was up there because Hugo is Buzz Aldrin's grandson. Now that they know (or should figure out) that the astronaut was for Apollo 13, that misdirection on his relative should probably end for at least some people. I was really thinking John Mayer for Chris, but you all have made a compelling case for Donny Osmond. I wonder if he's been told before that he kind of looks like John Mayer, and he's intentionally playing that up.

Steffy couldn't hold back that smile when she told Finn that it was Hope who kissed Liam. Then, it was like she remembered that she's supposed to be Saint Steffy, and she went back to her serious face and spouted that bullshit about how she had hoped she was wrong about Hope's feelings for Thomas. Bitch, please. Since Steffy has had her chance to tell Finn about Liam kissing her, and she didn't, I really want Hope to find out first and be the one to tell Finn. Then there are those Taylor/Ridge scenes. First, Taylor keeps saying that Brooke broke their pact and is acting like she's the one who was betrayed. Um, Taylor, you were in Ridge's office throwing yourself at him, begging him for another chance before Brooke decided to go for it with him. Taylor is so far up her own "saintly" ass that she has to lie to herself about Brooke being the one who broke it, because she's incapable of admitting she did it. But then, at the end, there, she said that at least she didn't sleep with her daughter's husband. Yeah, Faylor is happening. My guess: She's all heartbroken over Ridge, and Finn will likely soon find out about the Steam kiss. Taylor comes across him drowning his sorrows, probably at Deacon's restaurant. He doesn't want to go home, so she takes him back to her place to sober him up. The two of them vent about their respective heartbreaks, and they end up hooking up. Hope is really bad at this. The near hysterical "I don't want to talk about Rome anymore. I'm home, I want to focus on our family." Did you really think that was going to work, Hope? And she was doing that thing that cheaters/liars do where it's clear the person knows what they did, but they still refuse to admit to anything until the other person spells out exactly what they know. It just makes you look like there is more shit out there for them to know, so you want to make sure you don't accidentally admit to something they didn't know about already. It was clear, when he was asking "who'd you go sightseeing with?" that Liam knew. But then, Liam, after he did the whole "repeat after me, I...kissed..." after it finally came out, my immediate reaction was "OK, now it's your turn, Liam. Repeat after me, I... kissed... Steffy." Are there substitute writers, and was this their first week? That might explain the oddness of it all. Like how we went from Liam kissing Steffy and Hope and Thomas basically out on a date to Liam back home and the rest of them on the plane, with Hope telling Thomas that what happens in Rome is staying in Rome. That could have been the sub writers kind of clearing the decks to allow themselves to decide where everything is going. With the way everything is up in the air, they can reveal just about anything about both Steam and Thope. Steffy could have pushed Liam away and told him off for trying to ruin her marriage, or the two of them could have gone back to her room and hooked up. Thomas and Hope could have stuck to their sightseeing date and gone their separate ways to pack, or they could have gone back to one of their rooms and hooked up. I'd like to think that JMW is too far along in her pregnancy for them to start a WTD storyline for her again. But I don't have complete faith that we won't see a reveal that they hooked up in Rome and she's pregnant with her third WTD in five years. (Which would be hilarious, given all the dirt she slings at Brooke, but it would also be completely tedious.) My son has watched on and off for a few years, and he got all caught up today with what's been going on. He said "so, basically, they're writing fan service for absolutely nobody?"

I can kind of get the initial impulse to kind of wait and see if your spouse comes into that conversation intending to admit what happened or not. Because that could play into whether it ends up being something you can get past - if your spouse confesses and is really upset and remorseful vs. if they just cover it all up and pretend everything is fine. But, once it was clear that Hope was going to just put on a happy face and focus on the HFTF stuff and how much she missed her family, that's when Liam should have grown up and told her what he knows instead of playing word games with her. This whole story really illustrates that Liam has not matured a single bit in all this time. And, when all is said and done, Hope is going to have just as much to be angry with him about as he does with her. Taylor, shut up. Please. Just shut up.

I love how the whole "one thing that can end our marriage" is only from Liam's point of view. Does he ever stop to think that, to Hope, Steffy is just as much of a no-go? How convenient for him that the only person who is an actual threat to their marriage is someone he wouldn't ever be involved with. Meanwhile, Steffy is "always right" and his BFF. I think he's good when he gets good material, but with Liam in same old same old mode, he just goes into autopilot. (I thought he was really good in the Beth stories, both when they thought she died and when they were getting her back.) In this show, especially with the slanted writing now, every bad thing a Logan does is exponentially worse than any bad thing a Forrester does. I feel like that's why we're getting Liam constantly spouting that Hope doing anything with Thomas is the only thing that can break their marriage. They're hammering away at us to find two kisses (in one incident) to be the worst thing anyone has ever done to their spouse.