KerleyQ

Liam is such a tool bag. Even if we're to buy that he didn't honestly think that his talk with Hope would give the impression that he was open to moving forward, after his talk with Steffy, he had to know that the idea was likely in Hope's head. I really hope JMW's maternity leave exit is her and Finn taking the kids somewhere to get away from it all. Are we going to get a good old fashioned corporate fight storyline? Maybe Ridge/RJ vs. Eric/Thomas? I'd say Ridge/Steffy, but since she's going to be off screen soon, RJ will likely take her spot. Then how does that play into Hope working with Thomas? Does she side with him, even if they are not together romantically, or does she side with her mother's (soon to be) husband? Man, they made quite a long journey to make that Eric/broken stapler analogy. That was painful.

This is what I'm holding out for. She should have stuck with Wyatt years ago. DB and KM had great chemistry, and he was the man who was only into her without being an obsessive stalker. I'd love to see AN's Hope with him, to see if they have the same chemistry. And I'd rather see Wyatt in a leading romantic storyline than either Liam or Thomas.

I got caught up on the past week over the past two nights. So, did they switch writers last week between Wednesday and Thursday? I appreciate that Steffy seems pretty intent on boxing Liam into the friend zone. I like that she was making clear during their conversation this week that she does not want him single and available to her. Talking about her marriage to Finn, redirecting his "we" about the two of them and Kelly to the greater blanket blended family they're all a part of, and repeatedly telling him she does not want his marriage with Hope to be in the same turmoil her own marriage is currently in. It's like she wanted to subtly reinforce the boundary she created when she told him he needed to leave the previous night. After everything she and Finn have been through over the past year or so, she would look pretty terrible, in my opinion, if she was even thinking of looking at Liam as a romantic prospect. Ridge was really being kind of an asshole to Taylor during the Ridge/Taylor/Steffy scenes last week. And he was also a dismissive asshole to Eric when Eric was trying to have a serious conversation about his company with him. I feel for the actor who plays RJ. Here this guy landed the role of the only child of the show's "Destiny" couple, and all he does is run around town repeating the exact same lines over and over again about his sister's marriage, with occasional detours to talk about his other sister's marriage. Although if the current state of B&B is any indication, then wandering around town having the exact same conversation over and over again makes you the romantic lead of the show. I hate 99 percent of what Liam has become, but he was not wrong talking to Hope last week. Regardless of whether their marriage was working or not, after everything Thomas did, he is the last person she should ever have any kind of intimate relationship with. He didn't just hurt her. He actively worked to keep her from her daughter for a long time. Like Liam said, if Thomas had had his way, they wouldn't have even been having a birthday party for Beth, because she would still be "Phoebe," and Liam and Hope would still believe Beth was dead. And he has, more than once, abused her son. This isn't just about her being able to look past him hurting her. This is about her kids. That would make all the difference to me, if I was in her shoes. And while I could do without having to hear Liam or Brooke talking about Thomas so often, I'm never going to hold it against them if they want to hate him and not trust him forever. He's given them more than ample reason. Instead of worrying about keeping sleeping with Thomas a secret, Hope should lay it all on the line. If she really wants to know if their marriage can work, and they can work through tough times together, she needs to spill those beans. "OK, if we're going to try to fix this marriage, then I need to be completely honest with you. When I thought things were over, I slept with Thomas. It didn't happen until after you told me you wanted a divorce, but it happened. If you can't get past that, then we need to go ahead and file those papers. If you need some time to deal with it, some marital counseling to work through it, we can do that. But, I won't recommit to our marriage if that is going to be a wedge between us that you can't get past." When Thomas was alone after Hope left, it kind of looked like his facial expression was leaning into plotting territory. But, it may just be that he has resting evil face, and not a specific direction for the scene. On a similar note, I wonder if it was direction or a choice by SC that, when Hope started walking towards him to tell him she wanted to work on their marriage, he took steps towards her, as well. Finally, for fuck's sake, give Wyatt some damn story. Not Flo. Let's just keep pretending she doesn't exist. Also on my FFS list, give Bill a real story (not an obsession with some building), and free Deacon. All I could think during Deacon's adorable scene with Beth was "and you want to give this up for that psycho, Deacon? The family you wanted, gone, so you can keep boning the crazy?"

Thomas wasn't the instigator, but in terms of how awful what he did is, I rank him right up there with Reese. First, the two mothers hurt in this were people who he claims to love - his sister and Hope. Second, Thomas was manipulating people into keeping it quiet just as much as Reese was. Maybe even more. Thomas killed a woman who was going to tell Hope the truth. He abused his son and manipulated him to manipulate Hope into marrying him and staying with him. He slipped Liam a date rape drug. He was going to use the same drug to rape Hope. Once the truth did start coming out, he didn't let it go. He tried to kidnap Hope and assaulted Liam. He didn't mastermind the baby plot, but once he discovered it, he took it over as his own and made it worse. And, last year, he showed he hasn't learned a single thing, because when he found out that Sheila slipped Brooke alcohol, he didn't come forward. He kept that secret, because it lined up with what he wanted, and then he went a step farther and faked a CPS call to frame Brooke, which led to him, once again, manipulating the son he claims to love more than anything, so he could get what he wanted. I would be legitimately stunned if Hope ends things, and he just walks away as this "new and all better" Thomas, wishing her well. Someone, somehow, will suffer because he didn't get what he wants. And his family will blame Hope instead of acknowledging that he needs more serious, more long term help.

I agree with this. I don't know that he actually loves Hope. He's obsessed with her because he wanted her and couldn't have her. If I go back and analyze things, he was never that into Hope before he came back to town after Caroline's death. He dated Hope to help his sister, basically, and he liked her well enough, but he was later far more into Caroline and Sally than he had been into Hope. (And even Caroline was largely a situation where he wanted her because he had to compete with first Rick and then Ridge for her, and he is someone who wants what he can't have. I think Sally has been his only genuine love connection.) Then, he came back home with Douglas, and he saw Hope and Douglas bond right off the bat, and he decided that she was going to be the perfect replacement for Caroline for the two of them. So, he kind of imprinted on her the same way Steffy imprinted on Liam when he saved her after Bill rejected her. And, I think he's become obsessed and thinks he's owed Hope, because of everything he's done to get her, up to and including abusing his own child and killing a woman. Now, I'm a bit behind, because I got home from a week's vacation earlier today, so I haven't seen anything since last Monday's show, but from what I've seen on line, it seems like they're actually going to have Hope dump Thomas and try to fix things with Liam. Like others here, I predict will just implode once she finds out about all of his bullshit with Steffy and he finds out she's banged Thomas multiple times (although he really should have figured that some banging was going on once she whipped those divorce papers out and was free to do so, so it shouldn't be a huge shock to Liam). While I think that implosion will happen, I do also think that her and Liam talking about all Thomas did re: Beth on Beth's birthday will still stir up some "what the fuck was I doing?" kind of issue in Hope that won't see her running right back to Thomas. Thomas is just going to end up being the vehicle that helped get her out of being stuck in the same lifetime of shit her mother's been in. I also think her eventually finding out about Deacon and Sheila will be another wake up call that she doesn't want to repeat her father's mistakes, either. (I know Thomas isn't, to Hope's knowledge, as bad as Sheila, but it will still be the whole "but this person has caused so much pain, how could you be with them?" kind of realization.) At that point, it will be interesting to see what Thomas does. I could kind of see him resenting the fuck out of Hope, because, from his viewpoint, he's done so much to get her, to show her how he is devoted to only her, and then she's finally free of Liam, and she still rejects him? It could turn into a whole new rivalry in business and on a personal level, since they share a fashion line and a child. I swear, though, if all they're doing is just reuniting Lope, what was the fucking point of anything that has happened in the past few months? They would have to do a metric shit ton of repair to that pairing to get anyone to be remotely invested in them again. And the last thing we need is a WTD storyline here. A Thope baby would have very poor future prospects on a show where being single means being off camera, since that kid would be genetically related to every single other member of its generation and genetically related to every adult on canvas (so no hope of any of them producing a future romantic prospect) except for Carter, Sheila, Finn, and Li. (I guess you could add Paris and Zende to that list, except they only marginally, at best, exist here). Having said all of that, if they did want to redeem Lope as a couple (again, I'm not sure what the point of all of this would have been, then, other than dirtying Hope up), then the WTD might, ironically, be the way to go. Liam coming to the realization that all of the pain he's feeling as he worries his wife could be having a baby with another man is exactly the kind of pain he's inflicted on Hope over the years, and him honestly feeling and expressing remorse, maybe even getting some therapy and telling Hope, before the paternity is revealed, that he doesn't give a single fuck who the father is, he loves her and wants to raise their family together, full stop, might be the way to do it. Sticking a knife in the waffle thing and having him own up to and work his ass off to correct all of his waffling bullshit is pretty much the only way to rebuild that relationship.

I could see Sheila killing him. I could also see Liam, if Steffy sticks with Finn, just up and leaving town. I'd honestly prefer him being gone to getting another round of Steam, especially with this whole great love of his life bullshit. And, really, if Scott does want off, and they don't necessarily want to kill Liam off, the recent writing is a good way to build up to him leaving. He couldn't just up and leave town when he was happily married to Hope. But, now he's single, he's throwing himself at Steffy, and if she doesn't take him up on it, that's a good starting point for an "I need to get away for a while" kind of exit. Yeah, there are his kids, but he wouldn't be the first shitty parent on soaps to peace out on their kids. And they could always have Hope and Steffy talk about sending the kids to stay with Liam periodically.

"I'm not using Steffy's marital problems as an opening to move in on her." Um, the hell you're not, asshole. Hell, you used your marital problems as an opening to move in on Steffy. You're just continuing that shit now that she's having marital issues, too. On one hand, I don't want to cause Hope the pain, but on the other hand, I kind of really want her to hear the way Liam is talking these days, so she can really and truly be done with his waffling ass forever. He's so dismissive of their love, and he's basically calling all of it, including their daughter, the biggest mistake of his life. Fuck him. And, good lord, this whole grand love affair of his life crap is so not reality. For example, the reason he made the "mistake" of walking away from her was because she fucked his father and had to get a paternity test, and she didn't come clean with him until he found the test. And those flashbacks. For example, tearing up the papers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that wasn't him getting back together with her. It was just him tearing up the annulment papers to go through a divorce instead, because Steffy didn't want to annul their marriage, right? "OK, we'll divorce instead of annulling" is hardly a grand romantic moment. Finn, I'm rooting for you here, but give me something to work with. Stop bringing up Liam. Focus on Sheila. Give Steffy some concrete examples of how you will shut her down and keep her away from the kids. I can't remember now if it was someone here or somewhere else, but I saw the idea floated of him suggesting they get out of the country for a while, without telling anyone where they're going. That would be a pretty good way to handle JMW's maternity leave.

Did the divorce not already clarify the state of their relationship? Does Steffy turn him down so he goes sniffing back around Hope?

Real commitment to playing Hunter Tylo's daughter?

"Hope goggles"? What a fucking tool. What he's doing right now isn't much different than Thomas exploiting Hope's grief over Beth to move in on her. Sure, Thomas eventually added crimes to the manipulation, but right now, Liam is a stage 1 Thomas - Steffy is going through some major issues, and Liam is using her vulnerability to prey on her. Hope's reaction to the model saying she and Thomas made a good team was interesting. It's pretty clear that she's not really interested in being in a relationship with the guy. If she was remotely thinking that it was something she really wanted to pursue, she wouldn't be rushing to reassure her mother over an innocuous comment like that. She'd just let that comment sit there so that Brooke could start getting used to the idea. Ridge was absolutely right when he was talking to Finn. Finn, dude, stop focusing on Liam and figure out your shit with Sheila. That is how you save your marriage, not deflecting and ignoring the Sheila issue while you rant about Liam. Liam himself can tell you that running around town complaining about the guy who wants to be with your wife in no way stops anything from happening with your wife and that guy. Where is Taylor? Uninterested in being in her kids' lives if it doesn't involve the chance to bang their father?

Lord, Liam is such a tool. "Steffy and I were married once, too." Given that their marriage fell apart because Steffy banged his father, Liam was not implying anything good about Steffy with that point. Like, yeah, sure, Finn, you're married to her now, but she's a cheater, so... If I was Steffy, after those scenes in the office, I would be having a conversation with my brother about how Hope may be attracted to him and all, but she's still very much hung up on and thinking about Liam. And then we're back to more of Liam being a tool, informing Steffy that she's still in love with him, too. Steffy should rip him a new one. First, she knows damn well that he's only saying all of this stuff because he got his fee-fees hurt by Hope. Second, she's going through a whole mess of shit right now, and he's sitting there trying to score with her, despite her just recently telling him he has to stop that shit after he kissed her. Any minimally decent man wouldn't be bringing this shit up right now. He'd be offering to provide any help she needs with the kids and discussing their shared child's safety. And that's it. Third, Steffy knows damn well that he's told Hope that whole "and I'll never leave you again" kind of shit multiple times before, and it doesn't take, because he's a fucking waffle.

I would love if Steam doesn't happen, and we actually got some scenes of Steffy and Hope talking about how much healthier they feel not being involved with him.

All season, we've seen (and everyone in the house has seen) people getting clues, not understanding them, and then running to someone else to help them figure it out. Chris probably figured that if he told Gabriel he knew what it meant, Gabriel would have no reason to suspect he was showing it to anyone else. If he admitted he didn't get it, then Gabriel wouldn't believe him when he said he wouldn't show it to anyone. And, to be fair to Chris, he really assumed Karsyn was going to be gone, so showing it to her wouldn't mean anything down the road. He wasn't counting on Hugo playing himself like that. I think Chris's intention is fully for him and Gabriel to get to the final 2. He just majorly screwed that up by showing Karsyn the clue.

I could not stop laughing at their Billy Idol and Elton John guesses. I especially lost it at "is Elton John from Utah?" I think last week, I heard, when they were talking about the 70's teen heartthrob clue, still trying to fit it to Jim Carrey, and someone said they didn't think he was a 70's heartthrob, then someone said "was he a 60's heartthrob?" I had quite a "get off my lawn" type reaction to that one. I really don't get Hugo's thinking there, other than just wanting to go along with the crowd. Guessing Karsyn was the smart play for him on multiple levels. First, the confidence level in guessing her relative was much higher than this last minute Elton John surge. Second, nobody knows much about Gabriel, and if he sent Karsyn home, he was going to get to see Gabriel's clue. Yes, Chris does seem to have all that power, but, why not take another challenge and make sure you've got his relative right instead of taking that risk right now? I love how happy Hugo got when his relative was about to be revealed, and how clearly he adores Jimmy. He has absolutely had the coolest famous relative from either season.

I'm kind of surprised they didn't have Sheila standing at a window or partially opened door, listening to that whole Li/Finn conversation.

Oh, Brooke, your daughter is standing there telling you she wants to focus on her career, and you're trying to drag her into dealing with romantic drama instead? You can't be proud of her trying to be a strong, independent woman who doesn't need to be obsessed with her love life? And, Hope, notice how you never say anything about how you feel about Thomas? It's all that you love Liam, but you know Thomas is focused on only you. I predict that Hope will get her groove on for a while but not really settle into some serious "I love you" kind of relationship with Thomas, and when she's ready to move on, or refuses to take any further step, we're going to be right back to stalker Thomas. Poor Li must be sitting there wondering how she raised such a dolt. It must be Jack's fault. Hmm, now that I say it, he is very much like his father where Sheila is concerned, isn't he? He thought he could compartmentalize his relationship with her away from his relationship with his family, and it's coming back to bite him in the ass, because Sheila doesn't stay in her compartment. Just like his father thought he could just keep his affair with her and her being Finn's bio mother walled off from his family, and it did not stay that way. Will somebody please slip some new lines into Scott Clifton's scripts? He's just saying exactly the same shit every day. It's like there's some competition between the script writers and the wig masters to see who can make the Liam/Steffy scenes more ridiculous.

I think it came out at some point in the first season that you can't pull your own clue. I think the closest you can get to protecting your own clue is if you're teamed up with someone you really, really trust (which would be shaky for me, personally, I think the only duo in either season that was close enough for that kind of trust was maybe LC and Logan), and you both agree to take each other's clues and not reveal them to anyone else. But there'd be all kinds of potential pitfalls on that, including that you'd need to make sure you both won a challenge before anyone else grabbed one of your clues.

Yep. He's mentioned Kelly and Hayes who knows how many times this past week, and I don't think I've heard Beth's name come out of his mouth one time during the week. I've always agreed with Liam that Thomas is basically the worst, but he's kind of losing his argument on that score when he isn't raising a single bit of protest about the idea of Beth being around him.

I assume his method of handling Sheila will be the same method he uses to handle every other problem in his life. He'll spend months' worth of episodes wandering around town to complain about her to everyone he knows.

Can Wyatt and Li just team up and go around town laying down some common sense for everyone else? First stop, Deacon's place. Do the writers intend for Liam to come across like an asshole? Because he's really coming across like an asshole, despite being technically right about Sheila. And I love how he goes from asserting his right as Kelly's father to not leave her alone with Finn anymore to basically usurping Finn's place as Hayes's father, as he prepares to absorb him into the family he imagines he's creating with Steffy now. Yeah, sure, dude, you get to decide about your daughter, but you don't get to start "protecting" Finn's son from Finn. Slow your roll. The only small mercy there was that the flashbacks were largely silent. Their dialogue as a "cool, edgy couple," was so cringeworthy. We're probably about a week away from the return of the dreaded "cha cha cha."

And what about protecting them from Sheila, too? Sheila has already gone after Brooke in the past, who's to say she won't go after Brooke's daughter or grandkids?

JR is the only one remaining who I feel pretty confident won't be winning. Dude gets like 30 seconds of air time per episode. I like that we've had more wrong guesses this season. It makes that part of the episode more interesting instead of the foregone conclusion it was in each episode last season.

And, even in Steffy's more recent memory, Sheila was able to sneak in there during her wedding to Finn. Deacon, Deacon, Deacon. You're attractive. You're charming. You own what seems to be a succesful restaurant. I'm sure there are plenty of other women in L.A. willing to call you "daddy." Women you can be involved with without it jeopardizing your relationship with your daughter, your parole status (is he still on parole?), and your business. Women who you won't have to worry might some day shiv you in your sleep or let you take the fall for one of their crimes.

And, up until a few months ago, Hope was simply working with the lead designer on her line, who happens to be the son/brother of the co-CEO's and the grandson of the company's founders. It's not like she had a choice there, especially when she agreed to him coming back. So, Hope working with Thomas wasn't cheating, until it became cheating. Just like Liam's time over at Steffy's house is never cheating until it's cheating. If Liam can be excused in being around Steffy because they share a child, then Hope should be given the same excuse, since she and Thomas share a child. And if not, then that is literally the definition of him not extending her the same grace she's extended him. And, as for her sleeping with him. I believe she didn't intend to when they came home. She told him nothing more was happening, and she intended to focus on her marriage and family. She didn't flip the switch on that until Liam went directly to divorce, when it dawned on her that, when she was in his shoes, she didn't jump right there and refuse to listen. And then he confirmed that he was absolutely interested in getting back with Steffy at that point, and why wouldn't she throw her "nothing else is going to happen, I want to focus on my marriage" mantra out the window? Similar to how Liam tosses his devotion to his marriage out the window the second he feels he has a reason to (Hopequin and the Italy kiss), and runs right into Steffy's arms. Steffy having a relationship hasn't, in the past, been much of a deterrent for Steffy or Liam. She fucked Liam when she was allegedly happily in love with Finn, just because Liam came to her. It took her two kisses to lay down the law this time. She's still keeping those kisses a secret from her husband while lambasting him for his secret. And she'll probably waver onto Liam's dick in due course instead of working on her own marital issues now. Either that or, now that Sheila has saved Kelly's life, he'll start feeling more conflicted about taking her down. Although I have to say, as much as I love Scott Clifton, Sheila killing him to get on Finn's good side would be good story. Or maybe just put him in a coma for a while, and reboot the character when he comes out of it (less of a whiny waffle, for starters).

OK, but, this is what people mean when they say that Liam didn't give Hope the same grace she's given him. Did Hope demand that Liam cut Steffy out of his life after he cheated on Hope with her? Did she demand he have neutral site drop offs of Kelly to limit their interactions? Not only did Hope not make any of those demands, but she sat there and put up with it when Liam was spending nearly all of his time over at Steffy's house when she had amnesia and thought he was her husband. I think her only complaints at the time were that she'd like him to spend some time at home. She wasn't obsessing over it every second of the day, badgering him about concerns that Steffy might try something with her "husband," even while Hope had Steffy's mother basically telling her "you have to let her have your husband now, because she needs him." She's been 1,000 times more forgiving and understanding of years of Liam's shit with Steffy than Liam was able to be over one kiss. The one time Hope kissed Thomas, and the few months she's had feelings for him, pretty much pales in comparison, imo, as merry go rounds go, to the years of Liam/Steffy crap, including him literally fucking Steffy while married to Hope. As for today's show, I laughed so hard at "you need to cut her some slack!" And all of Steffy's facial expressions. JMW usually does bad telenovela reaction shots, but her reactions today were so much better. I love how Wyatt calls Liam on his shit these days. And Deacon calls Sheila on hers. If it wasn't for Deacon's huge blindspot for being in love with Sheila, I'd say that he and Wyatt have too much common sense for the rest of these characters. But Deacon's common sense escapes him when it comes to his relationship with her. He's dead on accurate when he tries to give her advice, though.