apinknightmare
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Posts posted by apinknightmare
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@apinknightmare -- I sure hope you're right. It always works better for me [and my stress levels] when I know the story is going inside someone's head from the start. Hee.
Plus, now that I think about it, if too much of the events happen in Oliver's head, the "raw discussion" between him and Felicity lose some of its meaningfulness simply because she doesn't have all the knowledge. Okay, I've talked myself out of the doom and gloom, THANK YOU.
I think their "raw discussion" and declarations or whatever will be real. God help these EPs if they oversold that part of it and it winds up being part of a hallucination.
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Yeah, I've been wondering about Felicity looking dead in that clip too. I'm now wondering whether it'll be one of those episodes where the audience doesn't know that it's all in the character's head until the PSYCH! moment when we learn it's all a halluciation... I'm not a fan of the style.
And also, ITA about having no clue what would make Oliver decide to shut down completely after a scary nightmare. Something real has got to happen, right?
I would think that since they already got us once on a PSYCH! moment that they probably would be pretty careful about doing it again, especially where Oliver and Felicity are concerned. If it is a hallucination, I'm guessing it'd be a pretty small part of the ep, so it'd be easy for us to tell what was real and what wasn't. Like, Oliver would wake up with Felicity standing over him, and she'd say something like, "Are you okay? You've been out since..." so we have a clear line of demarcation or whatever.
Can we just have this episode now? I figuratively cannot wait any longer.
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Yeah, I wondered the same thing awhile back about a dream situation--specifically because of the "literally sees a vision." If this is the ep with Vertigo, it's definitely possible that he'd get dosed and see some crazy stuff. Like, I'm starting to believe that Felicity bloody on the table is not real. So maybe there is an explosion, and he gets dosed, and his vision is of the fallout? Like Felicity dies, Oliver goes nuts and kills a bunch of people, Diggle ends up hurt/dead somehow too.
What I don't get is why he'd come out of that daze and think, "Well, that seems awfully accurate--better go push Dig and Felicity away to protect them!"
Also, didn't EBR say during the interview with IGN during CC that Felicity was lying dead on that table? I think she followed it up with a quick, "Or is she?" Some people speculated that she flatlined, but again, I HAVE to believe if she was seriously injured, Oliver would've taken her to an actual hospital. So maybe it is a hallucination/vision of her being dead.
But like @Carrie Ann wrote, I don't know what would make him come out of that and think they shouldn't be together - she's as at risk working with Arrow as she is dating Oliver Queen. Unless, like we speculated, Oliver uses this as a (temporary) reason to push both Diggle and Felicity out of his life both as Oliver and Arrow. Although it seems too soon in the season to do that? And trying to figure this out is making my brain hurt, especially since whatever I come up with will wind up being pitifully wrong.
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I watched one of Greg Berlanti's SDCC interviews the other day, and he downplayed the "Oliver is poor" thing. He said "poor" is a relative term when it comes to Oliver, and he won't exactly be struggling. And in another interview, Stephen mentioned he doesn't think there's a lot to be mined from Oliver having money troubles, so I don't think a potential Team Arrow breakup is going to be a result of money woes.
Besides, did Oliver ever pay them? Diggle, I suppose, since he was Oliver's black driver (hee!), but Felicity was on the QC payroll, so I'm not sure there would have been a reason to pay her a separate Team Arrow salary.
Oliver must have gotten ownership of Verdant back considering the Arrow cave is still in the foundry, unless there's some idiotic plot involving someone in the know purchasing Verdant as a cover, which...yeah, don't do that, show.
The EPs said at the end of last season that Oliver's money troubles were going to be an issue for Team Arrow this year because he wouldn't be able to pay them, but they were either lying out of their asses or they changed their minds because they realized how utterly stupid and improbable Oliver being totally broke was.
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Yeah, I wondered the same thing awhile back about a dream situation--specifically because of the "literally sees a vision." If this is the ep with Vertigo, it's definitely possible that he'd get dosed and see some crazy stuff. Like, I'm starting to believe that Felicity bloody on the table is not real. So maybe there is an explosion, and he gets dosed, and his vision is of the fallout? Like Felicity dies, Oliver goes nuts and kills a bunch of people, Diggle ends up hurt/dead somehow too.
What I don't get is why he'd come out of that daze and think, "Well, that seems awfully accurate--better go push Dig and Felicity away to protect them!"
Yeah, I'm wondering about the Felicity thing too, because a) why is no one doing anything to help her? If she's bleeding from the head, why would Oliver just be standing there frozen in his mangrief? I know they didn't bother to get her help after she cracked her head open in Streets of Fire, but come on, kids. And b) if she was out with Oliver on a date (not on Arrow business) and she got hurt like that, why would they not take her to an actual hospital?
ETA: The EPs did say on a couple of occasions last week that Oliver and Felicity never actually made it to the main course during their date, so something must happen (although it might not involve Felicity going 'splodey).
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Random thought -- what if the "you have failed this city" Oliver says in 301 is him hallucinating/dreaming/on drugs, and he says it to himself? Didn't Amell say Oliver *literally* sees a version of himself that scares the shit out of him? If I assume he's using "literally" correctly, it means Oliver has to actually see himself.
Or else I'm just gonna imagine Ted Mosby appearing behind Amell and saying "you mean FIGURATIVELY".
Or else I'm just gonna imagine Ted Mosby appearing behind Amell and saying "you mean FIGURATIVELY". HAHA
I like this theory, because it looks like Oliver goes in for a facepunch after he says that and I would be here for watching Oliver beat the shit out of himself (in a hallucination, of course).
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Hah, funny!
As for the Team Arrow breakup. I don't know if that's something they'll do or something that's supported by the spoilers. I know last year there were plenty of people predicting a Team Arrow break up so I'm not sure if this falls under hinted at or just wishful thinking/fannon type situation.
I can see both sides and it's a typical hero trope, Angel did it in S2 but I just don't know if it will actually happen in the show.
It's pure conjecture at this point, although during the panel at SDCC, when they were discussing Digg being on the team and asking if he would ever leave to join the Suicide Squad, he did say something along the lines of Diggle being committed to Team Arrow, and that he'd never leave voluntarily. So, that might be foreshadowing, although for what (if anything), I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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Guys... I don't mean to be an alarmist, but if Team Arrow breaks up....what happens to Sally? I'm actually kind of worried now
Not to be a downer, but I'm pretty sure Felicity gets her in the divorce.
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Trying to make sense of everything is becoming a full time job, to be honest.
This so much.
And we're probably all going to be wrong, which is the real kick in the (mental) pants.
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But why would he kick off Felicity and Diggle but keep Roy? LOL. That seems dumb, even for Oliver. I can see him kicking Diggle off due to his baby, but why would he kick of Felicity? Like @hogwash said, he had her purposefully kidnapped in the season finale.
Well, the producers said that one of the questions this season is whether or not they can have lives outside of their work on the team (I know this is true of Oliver and Felicity, and I think Diggle, too). I can picture Oliver solely dedicating himself to Arrow (for a while, at least), and if he does love Felicity, maybe he wants her to leave because a) it's difficult for him to be around her and not be with her and b) he wants her to go out and have a life - she's just as dedicated to saving the city as he is. So, if he thinks he can't be Oliver Queen, I can see him retreating into himself and pushing everyone away. Not because he doesn't need them, but because he wants them to move on. Because he doesn't want them to give up (or lose, in Diggle's case) their lives to help him in his crusade.
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Yeah I think you're right. Diggle and Oliver don't know Sin so I really doubt it could be something involving her. But it probably has to do with Diggle and being there for your children and such.
I think it's something to do with fatherhood too. As someone said above, that's something that would be close to SA's heart, and would definitely be a tough subject. I posted this thought a couple of days ago, but I really do think that Team Arrow's going to break up this year (for a bit at least). Maybe this is the beginning of it? DR said at Comic Con that Diggle would never willingly leave Team Arrow, so, maybe it's an involuntary hiatus?
I'll add my guess. In the premiere something happens that makes Oliver realize he can't be in a personal relationship with Felicity but she's still his teammate. In episode 3x02 something tragic happens to Sin and Oliver sees how Sara takes loosing a friend and he further freaks out. Oliver decides that he can't go through that with Diggle and Felicity and kicks them both off Team Arrow. Diggle and Oliver fight over it and the fight they have is for the soul of Team Arrow. Roy is a loner so Oliver will want to team up with just him. Doesn't Felicity go to Flash in the third episode? Getting confused with all the spoilers we've gotten.
She goes in the fourth ep, after a conversation with Oliver, who makes her think this might be a good time for her to go and visit Barry (I think Oliver must tell her he's The Flash, or allude to his powers).
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...I want Diggle to kick Oliver's butt.
Is that so wrong?
I wouldn't mind watching them fight it out before engaging in copious amounts of man hugs.
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I'm so glad Digg's right in the thick of things. I love angst and Team Arrow confrontations, but I can only take so much (and I hope they don't last too long). Preparing to be in the fetal position weeping for the first few eps.That makes me so happy because I love team Arrow and their squabbles.
I'm guessing they won't be squabbles but heart breaking moments. Bring it.
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Could this be the part of the story that involves the willpower drug? I wonder if Oliver hallucinates something, or, I dunno, the explosion knocks him off, and [if he's drugged] he dreams a super scary scenario where he sees himself as a monster.
Ah, see, I assumed the scary version of himself he saw had something to do with Felicity. I wonder if the willpower drug has something to do with him killing (or thinking of killing) again? I don't know why that would affect his relationship with Diggle though.
My brain is tired.
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I don't know the right way to explain it, because I don't think Felicity would be petulant or anything, but she's always encouraged him and told him he deserves good things. And given that MG said her reaction to the difficult truths Oliver tells her is interesting, I'm guessing she doesn't react the way he expects her to or already knows about some of it (due to hacking ARGUS? IDK). I just can't understand what could happen in the span of the night for HER to want to back off.Oh wow, this is eeeenteresting. Because it would be a GIGANTIC emotional rift between them if Felicity doesn't accept any of Oliver's reasoning, and she tells him that she wants a relationship regardless, but he still refuses. And then what can she do, really, but try and move on?
Of course, maybe the ep takes place over a few days and they have some time to cool off after the date? I just feel like this decision is going to be made by Oliver when he's in an emotional state, IDK.
Maybe Felicity just decides to go along with whatever Oliver's reasoning is, or maybe she disagrees but lets it go because she realizes he's not ready. I just think that Oliver's story and growth would be more emotionally rich if he were willingly giving up a relationship that was an option to him as opposed to Felicity wanting out of it too. But then she accepts it and tries to move on and starts to when she gets to know Ray Palmer a bit better.
Although, per MG, her dilemma over being "Oliver's crush" suggests that she might not be sure of the depth/realness of his feelings for her? So maybe she tells him that and that feeds into Oliver being a one-woman man this year? The emotional crux of his decisions (or however AK phrased it) could be him making those decisions that show he truly loves her?
I don't know, just thinking out loud about the ways this could play out. It's how I occupy my mind during my morning run to keep me from quitting.
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These beautiful jerks need to stop with this. I'm already trying to figure out a way to fast forward real time.I never know what to believe with this dorks x.x
But guess we are getting a good scene between Diggle and Oliver
David Ramseys tweet:
@amellywood delivers a heart-wrenching performance on the set of #Arrow at the END of a 13hr work day! Bravo to the leader of the pack!
and Stephen response:
@david_ramsey couldn't do it without my scene partner.
Digg's daughter is in this ep, yeah? Maybe it's got something to do with that? Or maybe they're discussing the fallout from the date? Maybe they're discussing the fallout from the date and/or the life Oliver can't have while he holds the baby (dream scenario, tbh)? No, I can't think about it. My heart.
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So Paul Blackthorne posted this on his facebook page and there is talk of underwater shoot for a episode.
It sounded like that might have been a joke?
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Does anyone remember that quote from Kriesberg where he alluded that since there's a legitimate threat at hand, Felicity in turn has a legitimate choice to make and that choice fuels the emotional crux of the decisions Oliver makes in the episode or something like that? That only just came to me, and maybe while we're thinking Oliver is the one to decide if and when the relationship starts, its really Felicity who makes the ultimate choice.
I don't know, maybe I could be misreading that quote or reading too much into it. But it would be refreshing to see that kind of choice be left up to the woman for a change and not the man, like how its usually done....all the time.
So, this actually made me think. There's this from the CW press release about S3:
In the aftermath of this victory, Season Three opens with Arrow now a hero to the citizens of Starling. Crime is down, people feel safer, and Captain Lance even calls off the Anti-Vigilante Task Force. Basking in his success, Oliver believes he can finally have a private life and asks Felicity out on a date. But the second Oliver takes his eye off the ball, a deadly villain reappears in Starling, forcing Oliver to realize that he can never be Oliver Queen – not as long as the city needs The Arrow.
This from EW:
So it sounds like this year’s new big bad won’t be the only thing weighing on Oliver. As Kreisberg put it, “Now there’s a real legitimate threat, or at least a real legitimate choice for Felicity to make. Oliver’s reaction to it and the decisions it forces him to make are the emotional crux of the episodes.”
Now I'm wondering - does it specifically say anywhere that Felicity also decides not to pursue the relationship, or did we just assume that she agreed with Oliver because that Comicbook.com quote reads that we'll be sympathetic to both of their positions? We can tell just from the CW press release that Oliver's going to back off, but does Felicity? I honestly can't remember if there's been a direct quote about that. Maybe we're sympathetic of Oliver wanting to back away and we're sympathetic of Felicity wanting to pursue it? I mean, if Felicity actively says, "yeah, we shouldn't go there," then it seems to me that maybe Oliver wouldn't feel quite as threatened? Like, it's easier for him to say, "Yeah, maybe we shouldn't do this," knowing that she still wants it? If he knew she was still interested but was beginning to let go of the idea since Oliver was pushing her away and then Ray comes along, it seems like the "decisions it forces (Oliver) to make are the emotional crux of the episodes" thing actually becomes more emotional because Oliver's like, "Oh shit, I might really lose her?"
Or maybe there's a quote out there about both Oliver and Felicity backing off, and I just thought of all this for nothing, haha.
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The more interviews I read/hear the more I'm beginning to wonder if they are going balls-to-the-wall Olicity. It sounds like they are going to address their feelings for each other, but they aren't really going to jump off the cliff. AK even reiterates during the ComicCon panel the relationship between Oliver and Laurel. I am not going to back and watch again but he suggested their intimacy. If the panel didn't bore me so much I might go find the exact quote. The moderator brings up Olicity repeatedly to stir up the crowd but no one really says much except Berlanti. It is really the only thing Berlanti commented on. He only said it would be addressed and it was genuine.
I'm beginning to think they are going to give us a celibate Oliver. I'm not so sure it is because of his feelings for Felicity though. He might care and maybe he wants to be a better man. Amell's "one woman" comment might mean more he isn't ready for a relationship and he isn't satisfied with ONS anymore.
There wouldn't be much surprise if at the end of S3 there has been only one date for Olicity. I wonder if the EPs are trying to counteract the popularity of the couple by putting a nail in its coffin. They could address the I-love-you which rocked Twitter and hope Ray and Felicity get the traction to overwhelm Olicity. Especially if Oliver's past is so horrifying Olicity comes to a halt as a romantic couple. Another season or two of "Laurel's exciting journey" and maybe the EPs are hoping the fans will forget Olicity and sister-swapping.
See, I don't think Oliver and Felicity will be together at all this season - if they are, it won't be until the end. But if the EP's goal is to go all out and have them admit feelings for each other, that's not at all the way to go about putting the nail in the coffin of their relationship. If they wanted to do that - Oliver's "I love you" would remain ambiguous. If he flat-out admits to her that he loves her (which all signs are indicating that he will), the writers have given the audience hope that they'll be together. So, introducing Ray will be for naught - people might like them together, and some people might go all-out for that pairing, but now that we know Oliver and Felicity love each other, how can we not root for it? I mean, MG flat-out said he thinks they're in love with each other.
From a writing standpoint, if Oliver admits that he loves Felicity, in order for him to grow as a person, he has to stay true to whatever reason it is that he gives her for not wanting to be with her. So, if he tells her he can't be with her because being the Arrow comes first, and he remains celibate for the year, IMO it's not because he's not satisfied with one-night stands, it's because he doesn't want to be in a romantic relationship if he can't be in one with her. And he can't be in one with her because his mission comes first (or whatever Arrowy reason he gives her).
I think the producers got a taste of what happens when you mess with a large fanbase like they did in the finale. They're hyping up this love between Oliver and Felicity to the point where it's going to seriously backfire if they don't deliver. Now, they've been tempering expectations - SA said that admitting their feelings doesn't mean they can be together, every one of the EPs has said that Oliver (and to a certain extent, the rest of the team) isn't sure that he/they can have a life outside of their mission. This season is a lesson learned, I think. I would be very surprised if they put all of this out there not to follow through with it at some point. Maybe not this season, but next.
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You're right, it was Kreisberg, at about :50, here:
Yeah, I can't tell from that if there's one discussion or two. I don't know why, I just got the impression that things were pretty final between Oliver and Felicity at the end of the first ep, after the date, so I don't really know why they'd have a second discussion about their relationship? I think it has to do with Oliver telling Felicity about Barry and encouraging her to go visit him. Maybe it's also a bit of a coping mechanism? Pushing her toward Barry to try to get her out of the foundry because he's having trouble being around her after their 'declarations'? IDK.
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I saw MG's tweet on this but I never read the context of the quote. Anybody know what it was? And something I just noticed in that GIF: Amell has dimples?!?! Never noticed them! Abs were too distracting ;)
I think she kept accidentally getting boob groped when they were wrapping their arms around each other for pics.
And yeah, the dimples are nice. :)
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Yeah, I think it was the Berlanti interview. He says something like, "Well, Felicity and Oliver have...a discussion that makes her feel like now is a good time to visit Central City."
Ah, I see. I wonder if it's got something to do with Oliver telling Felicity that Barry's The Flash (or has superpowers)? This quote from GG makes me think it might:
"It’s pretty straight forward. She hasn’t seen me since the accident, and she knows more than I think she knows about what’s going on with me," Grant told Access of Felicity’s Episode 4 intentions at Comic-Con 2014 in San Diego. "She’s coming to catch up with me, basically."
I think the serious convo/end of pursuing the relationship will happen in the first ep. Maybe Oliver encourages her to get away for a little while (or pushes her toward Barry to help her move on?)?
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That is a bit of an odd choice for Wildcat! To fit the comics it would have been better to cast a Michael Shanks type the way Smallville did for Hawkman. However, having this guy fill two roles - trainer and love interest - it's a tighter story in which screen time can be combined. With all the other stories to tell this is probably better.
Based on what EPs said, I got the impression that Felicity and Oliver have their 'declaration' in the premiere and then there's another serious talk before she visits Barry. I think Oliver being afraid of losing control is a solid theory for the first talk but I'm not sure about the second talk.
This is probably going to come off in a way that I don't mean it, but what did they say that made you think they have two talks? I'm just curious if I missed something with all the information that's come out over the past couple of days.
“It’s not a fake-out,” Kreisberg said. “Felicity and Oliver actually have a pretty raw discussion about what they mean to each other, which we’re really excited about, and [it] is actually an extension of what happened at the end of last year.”
Based on this quote from AK, I always thought the the declaration would come during the conversation not to pursue things further (basically because I figured the use of the word 'raw' indicates an "I love you, but" scenario).
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Personally, I don't have a problem with it. One of the EPs said that her crossover would provide closure between her and Barry or something like that. It just really makes me wonder about Oliver and Felicity's conversation, since she's off going on a date three weeks later (and I don't mean that judgmentally, I don't want her to wait for a guy that isn't ready). I'm just insanely curious.I'm not sure why people are hating this idea of a Barry/Felicity date. It doesn't bother me at all. They kind of left the characters hanging on Arrow, we end 209 with a possible date if Fel ever decides she's ready to move on. Then she's visiting Coma Barry for a full month and even though she finds out about Iris in 219, she doesn't know for certain where Barry stands.
A date sounds like the natural resolution to 209. They go on the date, find out they're still not over or ready to get over Iris/Oliver and move on to a great friendship...it provides closure for the characters and fans.
ETA: I just hope it's a thing where maybe Iris suggests a double date so Barry invites Felicity because she knows how he feels about Iris?
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Spoiler Discussion Thread
in Arrow
· Edited by apinknightmare
Maybe Felicity gets hurt and does go to the hospital (that's why the Glades doctor is around?), but that particular vision of her isn't real? I mean, even not knowing the details I don't understand why they wouldn't take her to a hospital, because she was out with Oliver on personal business - there's no reason for her not to get legit medical attention unless somehow the hospitals have been compromised.
As for Oliver having "visions," I thought this version of Vertigo was supposed to have something to do with willpower? Unless that was a plant to throw people off or they changed it once they started writing the eps. Or I guess it could be a side-effect.