apinknightmare

I never doubted that he meant what he said to her, but IMO (for how I personally feel about how things went down), I'm very glad they took out the kiss, because it's one thing for him to mean what he's saying and for her to be passive in it until he gives her the syringe, but it's another for him to pull off the "ruse" in a way that makes her put herself out there and then allow her think that it might not have been real, which is exactly what he did when he stood there all cryptically and didn't confirm that he meant it but also didn't take it back. And AyChihuahua, I could be wrong in assuming the explanation for why he didn't tell her was directed at me. I know why he didn't tell her, I know he thought they were bugged, but I wish he had somehow brought that up when he was talking to her on the island. Not necessary at all, it totally wasn't needed, but *I* would've appreciated something more during their talk on the island instead of that freaking cryptic "I had help," crap. Yeah, but it was still patronizing as hell, considering he knew at the time that she wasn't selling anything. It was just, "hey don't be embarrassed because you were totally fooled!" haha

Does it throw them under the bus if he and Roy come back of their own volition? That's why I thought whatever thinking or processing they'd have to do would mostly take place over the break between 3x10 and 3x11, so we'd end with them leaving and come back to them coming back together independently of anything that Laurel's doing. I thought maybe Diggle saying, "I don't know what happens next," (to Laurel, I guess?) would be followed by saying something along the lines of needing time to process things. Then Laurel knows no one is going to be out watching the streets, so she takes it upon herself to do it and fails until they step in to help her. As for Malcolm, I guess he's playing the long game against Ra's. Maybe he sent Oliver out there on the off chance that he would somehow win? He loses nothing if Oliver dies, and gains a ton by him winning, and if he's playing a super long game that relied on Oliver dying, how would that even work unless he's somehow working with Maseo? But god, that leaves a ton to chance. I don't know what he's up to, honestly. I can't figure it out.

The problem with her being a willing participant after he hands her the syringe is that he's already told her he loved her as part of a ruse before he did that. I don't think there's much of a reason for her to be hurt or upset the way they cut the scene. He told her he loved her, then she barely had time to process that before he put the syringe in her hand. She's immediately clued in before she responds, and she hasn't put herself out there in any way that would be hurtful or embarrassing. I'm kind of angry that he didn't clue her in to the plan before he did it, but I can hand wave that. I understand why he didn't, but I do wish they'd made that clearer in the show. If they left the kiss in, I'd feel different. Because it is shitty for him to tell her he loves her, then not only go in to kiss her but to make her put herself out there by stopping before he reached her lips, making her move in the rest of the way, then slipping the syringe in her pocket while she's clearly into it. I get that the "we both did" part of the scene on the beach was his way of letting her off the hook for maybe feeling some embarrassment that she thought it was real, but that just makes it worse in my opinion. So, the way it is? Fine. If they hadn't have cut that scene, I'd feel much differently, regardless of what MG was trying to sell. Just because she wasn't hurt doesn't mean it wasn't a shitty way to handle things.

I figured that Diggle and Roy being in the field would be them taking care of business during the time Oliver was gone, before the find out that he "died." And that Diggle would've tried to convince Felicity, but maybe seeing her upset and walking out causes him a bit of pause, so he takes some time to think about it? I thought maybe we see the team disband at the end of 3x10, then get back sometime near the beginning of 3x11 - again, so it all the transitionary stuff happens off camera - like with Laurel's failed BC-ing.

Right? She had to be feeling so foolish too. Because not only did he make it so that she had to close the gap because she thought it was real, but then she's into it and gripping his arm WHILE HE'S PUTTING THE SYRINGE IN HER POCKET. I was angry on her behalf, but at least the way they cut it she hadn't responded to the "I love you" so she really didn't have anything to feel foolish about. If they had left that kiss in there, I would've wanted to punch Oliver's stupid face on that beach even more than I already did.

I've been thinking about how this whole Laurel suiting up thing shakes out, and here's my theory: MG said that something that happens in 3x10 necessitates Laurel putting on the costume, and I thought it was mighty presumptuous of her to think she could take Oliver's place. But what if she's not just taking Oliver's place, she's taking Team Arrow's place? I think they might disband in 3x10, and Laurel (unbeknownst to them, maybe) decides to take up crimefighting to fill the void on the streets of not only Arrow but Arsenal and Diggle as well. Maybe the last shot we get of the team together is Felicity shutting off the lights then cut to Laurel suiting up and uttering some ridiculous "I am the justice you can't outrun," or whatever nonsense. 3x10 actually ends with her being victorious in a fairly simple fight. Everyone (<--- using this term loosely) thinks she's badass, it ends on a high note for her. In 3x11 Team Arrow starts to realize that they miss being a part of something, then come back together for their own reasons and get wind that there's someone on the street calling herself Black Canary. They'd be curious, of course, then Roy would come across her while responding to a call Felicity hears over the wires and see her getting her ass beat. She reveals herself to him all bruised up, and he maybe has a little talk with her, then goes back and explains the situation to Diggle and Felicity. Then Diggle goes out to try and appeal to her to stop, then Brick calls his Unstoppable Army of Criminals to arms and all hell breaks loose. I'm thinking there's some kind of time jump (not too long, maybe a couple of weeks?) between 3x10 and 3x11, and 3x12 takes place in the same night-few night span as 3x11? That way Laurel only struggles within the span of an ep, then magically gets better with teamwork? That way they'd probably hope to quiet the people saying she magically got good (even though she would, but her struggles would mostly be off camera), and she could actually be shown being good (with the team) in that same episode, quieting the BC fans who would be angry that she's struggling? I don't know, just a thought.

At least he actually has some kind of business being there, considering he owns the place, haha. (which is stupid. show, please stop being so stupid)

I guess I just figured that Laurel isn't in the lair right away (doesn't she go out as BC on her own at first and then Diggle and Roy are "forced" to bring her in when they need help with Brick?), so this would've taken place prior to that. So she wouldn't have even known. Not that this matters, since it's not happening anyway, but.

I might be misunderstanding your question, but I figured it would be something Felicity would do sans Laurel. I don't see why Laurel would have to factor into the situation at all? When we found out that Felicity and Thea would be having scenes together (which have now been pushed back), I thought for sure it would've been Felicity either telling Thea what Malcolm was doing to her and trying to get her away from him, or trying to get her away from him some other way. Obviously that's not happening, but that's what I had hoped for. Well, maybe he'll tell her since we're supposed to get some Roy/Thea scenes coming up. As long as someone gets her away from him or makes a case to her to consider it. She needs to know what he's been doing to her.

Right, I wasn't implying that they weren't somehow familiar with fridging, just that if they didn't have such a pitiful history of killing off women on this show, that them actually putting Sara's body in a freezer might not have become such an issue with this particular death. Then again, it very well might have, I don't know.

Oh, it definitely is. And I think maybe that's about what's going to happen. I just wanted Laurel's initial reaction to be Laurel-esque, not Sara-esque. ETA: I really thought that getting Thea away from Malcolm would've been one of the first things Felicity did upon finding out that Oliver died - it seems in character for her, knowing what Malcolm's been doing to her (she did go through thousands of cell phone pictures to find Slade's car when he kidnapped her). And it's not one of those Felicity vs. Laurel things where I think Thea can only be helped by Felicity, I just honestly figured Felicity would've been the one to do it and that Laurel would've immediately gotten angry upon finding out (since that's what she does).

He's right in that it is common sense for them to put the body in the freezer since Laurel just *had* to drag Sara's corpse from the scene of the crime, and maybe if this show didn't have such a terrible history with their treatment of women and using their deaths to propel other people's storylines, it wouldn't have been such a questionable oversight.

I didn't think she'd stay mad at Thea, but I had hoped she'd fly off the handle a bit, because I enjoy batshit, unreasonable Laurel (kinda). I thought maybe she'd work with Nyssa to take Merlyn down (maybe Ra's too).

From the SPOILERS ONLY thread: Well, people aren't going to be surprised now. I figured she'd be forgiving of Thea, considering it would actually be interesting and in-character if she lost her shit for a bit, but I guess we have to see that big heart in action.

Not surprising. They seem to luck into the most interesting things on this show.

He tweeted a picture over the summer of some planning session and in a sausage fest of what looked to be about 20-ish men, I only spotted one woman. So, this really doesn't surprise me at all. Not saying that all men are misogynistic and that the woman would be solely responsible for picking that up, but...yeah.

So, ep 3x16 is called "The Offer," and I wonder if maybe it has something to do with this quote from Matt Nable in his IGN interview (posted over in the SPOILERS ONLY thread): “Yes, I think there could be," Nable told us when asked if there might be a future where Oliver and Ra’s have a mentor or ally relationship. "Yes. [Laughs]…I can say no more.”

I think fans will accept Laurel as BC regardless. I think after the episode airs, the people who were excited about Laurel becoming BC will be excited, the people who didn't want it won't like it, and some people in the middle will be swayed one way and some the other. But I do think them pursuing Olicity in this season is definitely to even out the scales of pushing forward with an unpopular storytelling decision.

What do you guys think the CW planted a troll to ask him if he'd release the kiss if the fandom got a WW trend?

I don't think MG realizes what he's done here. He's going to have to be careful now, because he's going to have people asking him to release all kinds of stuff in exchange for trends and whatnot.

I need someone to edit it so that we can't see the part where he puts the syringe in her pocket. It's a real shippy mood killer, haha.

The shared universes issue doesn't even bother me, because them not calling Barry could easily be explained away by him being tied up with his own issues in Central City. I like the combined universes enough that I'm willing to hand wave this stuff if I get more episodes of Flarrow . I'm wondering why they wouldn't get in touch with ARGUS? Lyla and Diggle are a couple. ARGUS has a base in Starling City. They would have a vested interested in getting things under control. Sure, it might not be in the way Oliver would've liked, but Diggle's never shown any apprehension for killing some dudes, and surely that's better than getting into bed with Malcolm Merlyn? Hopefully this is explained in the show, but the fact that they'd even consider it annoys the hell out of me.

Upon multiple rewatches, I like the I love you they kept. This one seems fake and almost a little...slick is probably the best word for it.

Seriously. I thought it was a shitty thing to do sans kiss. With a kiss? BURN IT ALL DOWN. Why does her arm go back at the end? Is that when he handed her the syringe?

The way he paused right before he did it? Yes, please.