DeepRunner

Edith seems to have lost some support among DA fans, it's true. Let me say here that it's not so much about loathing the character, perhaps, as it is not drawing characters sufficiently or writing that did not serve a character well. In the case of Thomas, I have great respect for that character as an essential part of the Downton story; he is the necessary evil. But after so many different situations of coming close to losing his job, and still keeping it, it is hard to like him OR Robert or Cora for it. Sarah Bunting is a good example of a character who could have been drawn better; she represented societal change, but was made so much of a shrew that most everyone was happy to see her go.

I am starting this thread pretty confident in some of the responses that will come. Season Numero Seis is the last one for the artistic Highclere visage. When they turn off the lights, we'll say goodbye to characters who took the world by storm. Everyone has a favorite character, and everyone has a loathed one. Thems we love are for another thread. This one is about thems we hate. Who won't YOU miss, once they close the Abbey for good, and why? For me, in no particular order (ok, at least the top one is in order): * Thomas--He is Satan in the Garden of Eden, and one of Fellowes's pets. More lives than Catwoman, he has survived only because of the stupidity that Robert and Cora regularly exhibit when he's hanging on the precipice, only to do something to get in their good graces again * Spratt--An insufferable snob. It's great to see Violet put him in his place * Carson--He started the series as a great figure, and turned into an odious snob. No points for finally popping the question to Sgt. Elsie * 1st and 5th Season Rosamund--The Rosamund of the other seasons was good. She was horrid in these two seasons * Ivy---Yes she's been gone for a while now, but she added nothing other than to be a rival to Daisy for Alfred * Alfred--"Hmmm, let's see, we killed off William, now we need another footman, and oh, by the way, let's make him O'Brien's nephew even though he's twelve feet taller than she is, and we'll have a war between Satan and Sarah O'Brien because of him, and yeah, let's get him to like Ivy so that it can burn Daisy." Two words...Plot. Device. * Jimmy--Other than eye candy for Thomas and for the females of Downton and Downtonia, whadhedo? OK, those are mine. Et tu?

OK, here is one more reveal I would like...Rosamund is Edith's real mother. Some people wondered about it in S4 with some of the private Edith/Rosamund scenes. It would be a great twist.

* Re: Baxley...meh. I guess I'm OK that Molesley stopped being the butt of jokes, but the character, as written, brought a lot of it on himself. The Molesley of S1 was a good, stately butler and valet. Even the pining for Anna in S2 was OK, sorta. The Molesley of S3 and S4 (Cricket, getting in Dutch with O'Brien, which, to be fair, was Thomas the Vampire's doing, drunken dancing at Duneagle, snottily thinking a job as footman was beneath him) is the one people remember the most. * The Misery of the Bates has turned lotsa Downtonians against them. Whether the alleged martyr complex of John Bates, or warmed-over, retreaded, repurposed murder storylines due to incredibly unimaginative writing and highly implausible scenarios (Anna a suspect in killing Green?), their script plate is loaded with a steaming pile of crap, ("Have you ever been over a friend's house to eat and the food just ain't no good?")

From the Top: * Carson and Sgt. Elsie will be married, and * Edith will finally have a happy ending, although I sort of wonder if it will be with someone other than Land Agent Dude * Matthew Goode will look at Mary and say, "Alicia was better." OK that probly won't happen, but this is a speculation thread, so... * I am betting we will see Gwen, maybe Jimmy and Alfred, and I really, really, FREAKING REALLY hope, O'Brien and Sir Richard * Fellowes will give the Baxter and Molesley fans what they want * Lotsa press about * Anna and Bates will have trouble. It's in their contract. JK. But I think they will get that hotel/motel ("...Holiday Inn...") they talked about before Vee-Ra showed up . * Thomas will hook-up with someone (could it be Andy?) * Daisy finally goes to Mr. Mason's farm and runs it. May be a CS development. Will Mrs. Patmore go there too, and become Mrs. Mason? I hope the End of the Abbey's Road isn't long and winding, but rather a nice, logical ending, with just enough left to do a movie.

The was P-E-R-F-F-F-F-F.... One of the best laughs I've had in a long time.

* Yes, bring back O'Brien. Not sure if she'll be back on during S6, but it would be great to see her settle scores. (Fellowes punished everybody's favorite black-hat by having Bates unbelievably take sides with Thomas in the Battle of the Bottle of Scorpions. Still has to be one of the most unlikely acts in Downtonia, although I'm sure Fellowes would have faced a fecal fiesta if Thomas's career had jackknifed as was the likely outcome in those days.Still, having Thomas beat O'Brien showed that Fellowes has his pets [see "Crawley, Mary.") * Mary IS loyal to Anna, and can be loyal to others (Carson). I won't throw her under the Bus O' Justice (although having her seriously atone for things would be a nice bit of schadenfreude). Mary is one of the key ingredients in the secret sauce. She does have some redeeming qualities, and yes, she delivers snark perfectly, I will offer that the ability of people to identify with any character, much less The Queen of the Hive or The Eternal Agoniste, depends on normative rationale.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......... Sorry, I can't be entertained by a bully. There were times in S5 when Fellowes made Edith a very unlovable character (sorry, Mrs. Drewe, the kid is mine, don't miss the attachment, adios), but I attribute that to poor writing so that the spotlight of favor could shine on his favorite child. I think it genuinely surprised Fellowes that Edith could have such a devoted following at one time. Edith last year was less the Edith of S2-S4, and more the Mousy Whiny Edith of S1. Mary's disposal of Gillingham (with the assistance of her former triangle interest and now bestie, Blake) for being...ummm...an unlikely award-winning performer seemed more 21st Century than 1920's. With the UK premiere of The Long and Winding End of the Abbey's Road coming in a few months, and this side of the pond in January, I am eager to see how Edith and Mary end up. Not everyone deserves a happy ending, but a happi-er ending for both would be nice.

Of course, David Tennant also played Barty Crouch, Jr. in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, with Dame Maggie continuing in her role as McGonagall.

Re: Thomas, it's probly well-known in these parts that I would like nothing more than to see him have a soul-crushing, career-devastating defeat with nothing nor anyone to save him. My halfway UO, however, is that his character serves an essential role. Unfortunately, he has no depth, and has done some pretty unforgivable things (see "Sinderby, Mistress and Bastard Child of"). When he uses his power for good, so say some, it's usually to crush someone else and serve his own purposes.

Molesley is not dim, necessarily, but the only time he showed any character development was in S1 and late in S4, plus S5. Fellowes has often used him as a piñata, constantly for buffoonery. From his failed attempt to get Anna in S2, to the cricket match, to his drunken dancing at Duneagle, to his mopish, stuffy declining of being a footman again when he desperately needed work, Molesley has been a cartoonish, miserable failure held up for ridicule by TPTB. I sort of admire Kevin Doyle for allowing his character to suffer beatdowns for so long.

Agreed, they really need to just throw it over the side and move on to the next thing. Which will likely be another crisis for the Bateses. Which would be shocking, shocking, I know.

I had considered putting the word innocent in quotes when I wrote my original post; I probly shoulda done. But the point I was trying to make was that dear Mr. Barrow went too far.

Mary seemed to sort of regret enlisting Thomas, saying he might have gone too far in trying to put Sinderby in his place. Stowell immediately suspected that Thomas had written the note to the cook. It isn't very much of a leap to think he could have deduced that Thomas was behind Diana and her child showing-up and tried to make him account for it. Sometimes, it ain't about the ends justifying the means. It's about the means themselves. Some people love Thomas. To me, he is a fascinating character and an essential one to the show. It would just be nice and probably somewhat equitable if Thomas was in a tight spot without another get-out-of-jail-free card.

Agree @TXhorns. Thomas the Vampire was slutshaming Sinderby and involving an innocent woman and child in the process. For all the love Thomas gets for using his evil powers for good, he is still evil. I think he is an essential character, but he has always, always, ALWAYS been able to wrangle his way out of trouble, primarily because he is The Downstairs Pet of The Downton Powers. Of course, he was let off the hook when he should have had to face an incredibly-uncomfortable moment in front of Robert and Sinderby, with Stowell as chief inquisitor.

From the top, this was an episode that was closing out stories and wishes for fans, the Christmas Special seemed to have LOTS of mistletoe moments (a metaphor for LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUV being in the air) mixed-in with some comical and comeuppance stuff: * Carson and Mrs. Hughes--I guess this is what passes for "will they or won't they?" in the 1920's. After what can safely be called a s-l-o-w burn, it was a nice outcome, handled well with just the right amount of feeling (from Carson) and humor (from Sgt. Elsie) * The Snotty Butler Beatdown--Stowell and Spratt. What Thomas did to Stowell and Lord Sinderby was incredibly dark-hearted; because Thomas is Fellowes's downstairs pet, he was not forced to account. It would have been good to see an act of sheer (career-crushing) vengeance toward Thomas. Stowell and Sinderby did deserve to be taken down a notch or two. The Queen Bee regretted enlisting Thomas. As far as Spratt goes, it was good to see Violet side with Denker in The Battle of the Broth. And it was great to see Denker throw the towel at Spratt * Lord Sinderby's Lover--Meh...Fellowes could have come up with something else to humble Sinderby * The Countess and The Princess--Now we know what really happened, although Violet implied she had strayed at other times * The Sons of Dickie Merton, or Isobel Crawley, The Goodbye Girl--As nice as the Carson and Mrs. Hughes resolution was, this split felt forced. Don't think we've seen the last of Dickie * Everybody Knows About Edith--PaPa knows. MaMa knows. Granny knows. Rosamund knows. The Drewes know. Branson knows. (His story about a lot of Marigolds was good and deft. Branson has grown on me as a character).Everyone knows...except Mary. My bet for S6 is that Mary will find out. * Edith Meets The Agent--Another Mistletoe Moment. It will be interesting to see how this proceeds * Mary Meets The Man Who Revs Engines--Interesting that they are introducing an interesting (race cars) love interest, should it progress that far, someone not as boring as Gillingham (who made the better choice) and Chahles. I will be curious to see how well he revs Mary's engine in S6, although, to be fair, she has been taken out for a spin, so to speak * Drunk Robert--THAT was funny to see * Everyone Can Call Him "Donk"--Let's see if Marigold does it in S6 * Molesley and Baxter--More mistletoe, more marriages? Seems E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E downstairs is doing it. Which brings us to the couple that started the Downstairs Nuptials Mania... * Anna and Bates--It took them most of the show to provide a slipshod ending to the "Did Anyone REALLY Kill Green?" storyline. Witness who was sure in the previous episode not so sure now. Bates on the lam on the Emerald Isle. Molesley and Baxter doing Anna Bates Investigates Redux. Anna being released from the front door of prison, only to want to go through the back door of the Abbey, to get things back to normal. The ending, when Bates came back, and they left to go to the cottage together, was interesting, as the door closed. Did it close on the episode? On the season? Or did it close on the Bates story (and I mean more than Green)? All in all, a pretty good episode. Not the best, and there were moments (including those above) where it seemed like Fellowes was rushing through things to have the season end. But still, pretty good.

Torment, if it was (let's see, she was able to hide things for years, she ended up marrying the man she wanted, etc.), is not the same as consequences. So she didn't get preggers, in the parlance. There were other consequences that could have happened. About the only torture that I can recall was her having to sit next to Anthony Strallan at dinner. Perhaps having to give her secret to Sir Richard might qualify. But even then, nothing major came of it.

Yep. Mary has always escaped the consequences of her actions. Easier for Fellowes to pile on Edith than to have Mary face rugged outcomes for her decisions. I said earlier and will say again...it was good to see Happy Edith. Let's hope it lasts into S6.

From the top, in an episode that started tying up loose ends: * Rose and Atticus get married. Eh... * Anna arrested. They did the perp walk with Bates a few seasons back. They did the perp walk with Anna this time. Interesting how they find all these witnesses. Is Green dead? If so, why not the story? Or, if it is meant to linger, couldn't it be done with more...interest? Seriously, this storyline has moved with the speed of an 18th-Century funeral procession. * Bates waxing menacing * Susan Flintshire returns. Another cardboard cutout villain, a shrew. Meh. Fellowes really doesn't like his blackhats very complex. They are never more than a cliche. * Mary alone. At least Carson was there to express Fellowes's view that she is BETTER than Gillingham. * Gillingham and Mabel. They were on-screen for 20 seconds. It would have been excellent if Mabel had said, "Sorry, Mary, we have invitations for Edith, and Branson, and your parents..." * Did anyone really think that Daisy was going to leave the Abbey? * Edith happy. I was growing tired of Mopey Edith. This was Edith as she should be, mostly. * Mary being a SUPREME B**** toward Edith. How unusual. "We'll all go out to lunch, even YOU, Edith." Fellowes likes his favorite child unlikable. * Branson starting pack-up for Boston. See ya, Sybbie. * Robert being more like the Lord of S1 than the Lord of the past few seasons. I think Fellowes finally got it that The Lord of the Manor had become The Boor of the Brits to the audience. * And Robert putting together that Marigold is a love child. * Thomas saves the day AGAIN! Against the Evil Denker. Wonder if the new footman will be the new "Uncle Thomas" love interest. Uncle Thomas. A name from Uncle Julian. All in all, not a bad episode, not a great one, either.

i have been catching-up with the show, watching online. This whole second half of the season has turned on the payback for dishonesty. They got the evil woman from Burn Notice to play the corporate lawyer (Evan Smith) for Liberty Rail. It was obvious when Jeff and Louis were at the bar that Jeff was gonna find out that Jessica had lied to him. All in All, Derailed was a reasonably good episode. I do think the show will turn in on itself...

Yep, the Green thing was both a gratuitous storyline ("Let's see, which character could we harm the most? Thinking, thinking..Got it!") and one that drags on and on and on and ON. Man's been dead for a full season. Let the case die with him. Seems like Fellowes is just on "set it and forget it mode" with this.

Fellowes is a Bates fanboy. I doubt he would let Bates be a killer. More likely is, Bates dies in S6 protecting Robert, Anna, or even Thomas. And yes, I know that I may be the last person who still likes Bates.

I am surprised by the Edith hate. But then, the character has been poorly served by this whole Marigold storyline. I sort of cynically wonder if Fellowes saw that Edith was getting the major sympathy play from Downton fans, and, not wanting his favorite child to be seen as the only universe-class B**** on the show, decided to level the playing field. As far as Daisy goes, she has been at Downton for at least 12 years now (at least as long as Bates); she's had a chance every so often to go to the farm and run things. Hope for S6: As much as I would hate to see it, have Mr. Mason die and leave her the farm so she can leave the Abbey. Or better yet, have her go to America and connect with Ethan Slade, Harold's valet. Don't see her as a B**** so much as an underdeveloped character. Baxter...Baxter, Baxter, Baxter. She doesn't add so much to the show. Except to be Molesley's love interest. In this episode, she should have forced her way in to let the Bates know that Thomas was behind it. Baxter was better when she didn't seem frail. Anna Bates...hmmm...wanting to gossip with Mrs. Hughes about seeing Mr. Drewe at the train station when Edith got off the train...not the right character for that kind of exchange. Now if Thomas had been the one to see it, THAT would have been interesting. But no, Fellowes is too busy letting Thomas rehab his image. Again. As an aside, I have been watching S1 again. That was Downton's best year, I think. This year...meh...so far, anyway.

THAT line is the best one yet. Even got the trademark symbol. Cool.

From the top: * Cora was good, smart, and tough for roughly 85 percent of the episode. She was right with Violet, right with Edith, and right with Rosamund. This is the Cora I like, the one with a brain and a spine. And then she drooped into dopiness when Robert came back with Isis. Fellowes can't help himself. He must make Cora sound vacuous at least once every episode. * This was a good episode for Molesley. I felt for a long time that, as much as Fellowes has tortured Edith and the Bates, he enjoyed making Molesley his favorite running gag. * We need more cowbell from Mr. Mason. He should be on more often, and not to just be the convenient conscience/brain/cheerleader for Daisy. * Violet had the best line of the night, to Mary, and put her in her place with regard to Edith: My dear, a lack of compassion can be as vulgar as an excess of tears. * Branson on the bridge with Sybbie was a good scene. * I am sure all the Bunting haters enjoyed Branson's statement about not wanting to spend his life in a bare-knuckle fight. It seemed like a nod from Fellowes about how incredibly ghastly a character he had written, so that n-o-b-o-d-y missed her. * Merton's boys were insufferable. Would've been great to see Branson crush Larry. The unfortunate thing is, Fellowes writes his villains as horribly uncomplicated souls, with no redeeming qualities * Rosamund became the unlikable, snotty Rosamund from S1. * Rose and Atticus, Atticus and Rose. Cinderella gets her Prince Charming (slight nod to the upcoming Lily James film). * The Mary and Gillingham resolution...REALLY? Couldn't they come up with something better than that? Overall, a reasonably good episode.