WearyTraveler

The did show people complaining at the Town Hall meeting. Kevin did put them in jail for trespassing on the school grounds. The police was doing something as Kevin had a big board with the results of his investigations (he wasn't getting anywhere, but he was doing something). Kevin told the mayor, more than once, that the town was a power keg, that there was violence below the surface, that the situation was escalating, and she dismissed him (which is why she told him "you were right" when he found her wandering in the streets). So, again, what more details are needed? and how would those additions contribute to the main storyline? Hahahahaah! I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read that! You're right, poor Kevin!

I don't think it's terrible writing as much as writing what is important to the story versus filling in minutia and spending valuable episode time in small details that would have NO impact whatsoever to the story. You know what's terrible writing? The Lost triangle. As much as I loved that show, the stupid triangle drove me bonkers. Kate licking a spoon to seduce Jack because she was jealous of him and Juliet? That's terrible writing right there! I think it's fine to complain about what you don't like, but to complain about things that haven't happened on the show seems unfair to me. So, that's why I addressed this particular comment. People are complaining that the GR knew the position of every body and that they entered every house. How can that be a valid complaint when the show never said this is what actually happened? We only saw one house: Nora's. We don't know where all the dolls were placed, we don't know if the GR entered every house. So, to me, this a wrong reading of the scenes we were presented. Maybe by correcting this mistake, the person will not feel so angry anymore (I'm all for spreading peace and happiness!). As to the things some people want to see on the show, which I understand are: 1) The GR being prosecuted / put in jail, 2) People complaining about the GR to the law and 3) The evolution of Memorial Day from beginning to end. I ask: why would you want to see all that boring stuff? Truly? How does it advance the plot to know that the citizens are complaining to the police, the mayor, the prosecutor? We saw it once with the town hall meeting. What do we gain by seeing it again and again? Obviously, the season was always supposed to culminate with the big stunt from the GR, so, even if they had decided to show us the citizens complaining, they would have had to also show us the GR getting away with it through some Law & Order style maneuvering, because they needed every single member to pull off the Memorial Day plan. If I want to see a Law & Order episode, I'll stream a L&O episode (they were so very, very good!). But this show is not about that. Why waste time with small details like those? As for the evolution of the Memorial Day Mayhem, why do we need to see that, exactly? Wouldn't that be gratuitous violence? We saw what they were planning, we saw how it impacted Nora, and then we saw the end result of the day: riots, violence, fire, death. The in-between is either boring, violence for the sake of violence and unnecessary. I don't need to see people complaining and someone yelling: "Let's go get the sonsofbitches!!" and the crowd taking their pitchforks (or guns, in this case) and attacking the GR. The end result is the same: Kevin walks back into town to find chaos. In order to show the evolution of the day, we'd need to cut out some other scene, what would you sacrifice so you can see completely immaterial, non-plot advancing details? Matt helping Kevin? The bible quote? Kevin's confession? Kevin and Wayne? Tom and the kind stranger? Nora with the creepy dolls at the table? Nora's letter? The dog's return? I for one wouldn't do away with any of those key scenes just so I can show a chain of events that can easily be deduced by the viewer and that, most importantly, wouldn't add anything of substance to the episode.

You guys are assuming facts not in evidence. Who says they went into every single house and left every single doll in the exact same position the departed was? The show never even tried to imply that much. Maybe some dolls were left in the yards, sitting on a chair or on a towel. We know they got Nora's perfectly right, but they have a file on Nora, as they have a file on all their possible recruits. They have been in the town 3 years. Plenty of time to investigate and build files on people. I'm sure right after the disappearance people were talking about a lot, telling their stories in minute detail. Like we do with the Kennedy Assassination and 9/11. Everyone remembers exactly everything they were doing those days, and back when these events happened and we used to talk about them a lot more, we'd tell everyone all the details. Whose to say the GR wasn't keeping a record of all of that? A few episodes ago the town did demand action in that infamous town hall meeting after Gladys was murdered and that's when a curfew was established. Again you guys are assuming the town hasn't complained, but maybe they have. As for the events of Memorial Day, I imagine people were first shocked, then they tried talking to others, then there was some attempt at organization, perhaps they called an emergency town meeting. Then small cones of violence started popping up, until they became a mob and someone proposed to go to the GR HQ. I don't find any major logical leaps there.

http://time.com/3303229/review-leftovers-season-finale-prodigal/ Review from Time magazine. Loved this part:

Before rescuing Laurie from her attacker, Kevin had a conversation with one of the police officers at the scene. He asked where the fire dpt. was and the officer told him they refused to come until the road was cleared of vehicles. Kevin ordered him to clear the road , then, and the officer said he couldn't because no one wanted to move their car, they just wanted to keep pounding GR members. That was the in-show reason for the lack of firefighters, although I think in real life, while the firefighters would have at least been at the perimeter and would have been trying to help the police clear a path for the fire trucks.

I think you are correct in pointing out that there might be ulterior motives only known to the leadership of the cult, as it happens with most cults. This is still unknown in the series, and I'm fine with that. Maybe that's something we can explore next season.

Having waited so long for it, I think I'd read the notes as soon as they became available! Also, who knows if the TV show will execute everything GRRM left in written notes? (I don't ding them for that, it's a whole different medium). I'd want to know everything the author intended, so, I'd definitely read the notes. I would also try my best not to spoil any of it to people who would choose to wait for the show.

YAY!!! Three signatures!

Hi PR lovers! I've read all over the forums and the interwebz how frustrated we all are with the one-day challenge format that seems to be the exclusive choice for the show these days. So, I created an online petition to request that they bring back 2 and 3 day challenges. How wonderful would it be if we get thousands and thousands of signatures? Not only would that give us some validation as reasonable people, but maybe we can make some noise! What do you say? Will you sign it? Would you share it in your social circles to get even more signatures? https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/project-runway-bring-back-2-and-3-day I hope you do! Maybe we will not get PR to change but maybe we will, remember when the fan community managed to make CBS reinstate a cancelled show? We could be those people!

OK! I've done it! I've created a petition to re-instate 2 and 3 day challenges. Let's see how many signatures we can get. Please share with your networks. I'll paste the link here and create a thread for this in the PR forum. https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/project-runway-bring-back-2-and-3-day

Based on Patti's monologue before she offed herself, here's what I think the GR's objective is: The GR's deal is not that people remember, They know knows people remember, but in their view they are remembering "wrong". They are still mourning when they remember their loved ones, and there are some people trying to leave it behind and go forward, moving to the acceptance stage of grieving. The GR wants them to remember in a different light. Not as an event that was painful to them and something to overcome, but as an event that proves that life is meaningless, and therefore, they should not move on to acceptance and continue to try to live a full life. The GR wants them to remember the Departure as evidence of the futility of life and the final reason why they should join the GR and just give up.

Wow! That was heavy! I felt so bad for everyone BUT the GR. Kevin's "confession" was heart wrenching as was Nora's silent scream upon discovering the dolls at the breakfast table. A lot to process. Glad to see Jill holding hands with Kevin and apparently on the road back to some normalcy. Do you guys think Kevin's wish was to get his family back? And what is Tom's plan? Has Laurie decided to leave the GR now that Jill almost died? She finally spoke to save her daughter's life. If Laurie leaves, will Meg take over? She (Meg) definitely looked completely bonkers, enraptured by their awful stunt, when Kevin found her. Babies are hope. I guess this might mean Nora is staying, after all, but that letter was so sad. Best part for me was the dog coming back tamed. Does that signal that the world is finally on the way to healing? The animals seemed to start going crazy sometime before the 14th (the deer in the flashback) and now the dog is back to being a normal dog again. A bit contrived that Wayne and Kevin crossed paths so serendipitously at the exact moment of his death, but, oh, well, what are you going to do? Wayne dying with a stranger would not have had the same impact. Matt was awesome the entire episode. I was afraid for Kevin there for a minute during his dream sequence. I kept telling myself it had to be a dream, because the shot of him closing his eyes in the car was such an anvil, but then the scene went on for so long.... I was like "are they really going to do this? where they yanking my chain with the suggestive shot of Kevin falling asleep? Did he fall asleep and his "other personality" took over scaring the crap out of Matt?" (I say other personality because that's my theory after his conversation with Dean on E08 - Cairo. It seems he goes into fugue and someone else takes over). The music for this series is really beautiful. That piano... I'm a sucker for strings. Anyway, I'm rambling. More organized posting later (I hope!)

Interesting take!

All right, thanks for taking the time. I think I understand better now. Since this is an episode thread, I won't continue to address that here. Let's see how the finale shapes up. I haven't had time to read the articles about it or watch the preview. I have mixed feelings toward this GR stunt. On the one hand I'll be as mesmerized by the characters' reactions to it as one is to a road accident; on the other hand, I think it's just so very shitty of them.... I am definitely looking forward to Jill in the GR and her upcoming interactions with Laurie and I want to know who comes to Kevin's rescue. Poor Kevin!

Well, I was trying to address this question you posed: For me, the answer is that Patti's deal is not that people remember, she knows they remember, but in her view they are remembering "wrong". They are still mourning when they remember their loved ones, and there are some people trying to leave it behind and move forward, moving to the acceptance stage of grieving. Patti wants them to remember in a different light. Not as an event that was painful to them and something to overcome, but as an event that proves that life is meaningless, and therefore, they should not move on to acceptance and continue to try to live a full life. Patti wants them to remember the Departure as evidence of the futility of life and the final reason why they should join the GR and just give up. If you understood it the same way, then I don't understand why you would pose that question. ___________________________________ Please allow me to say that I truly don't understand where you're coming from sometimes. And I honestly don't mean this as a way to pick a fight with you, or anything. I swear. But your comments sometimes do puzzle me. For example: In some comments you say that you don't want the show to explain everything, but that they should explain some things, at least broadly, and that you don't need minute detailed explanations. But then you 1) Pose questions that ask for a lot of details that, IMO, are completely minor (in relation to the overall story) or can be reasonably inferred from the show. 2) Other times you flat out state that the show hasn't specifically said something that it has said, but when someone points that out to you, you don't acknowledge that comment and instead move the goal post of your expectations to something else (usually another question you feel has not been addressed properly). Let me illustrate number one with questions you posed just above in this thread: Because the dolls have just become available now, because they thought of the idea only recently, because they didn't have enough money and / or members to pull it off before... why does this matter? The show has established that the GR started as a small group and that it's gaining momentum now, three years after the Departure (established in the conversation Kevin had with the FBI guy). They have established that the GR wants people to feel life is futile, take a nihilistic view and give up on life (established by your own admission in the last episode). And they have established that their tactics are to annoy people, get in their faces, and upset them as much as they can (established in almost every single episode that has aired). So, this new stunt feels pretty much in their vein. If it wasn't this, it would be something else. Now is no different than before in terms of tactics, they are just going bigger. The show picks up three years after the Departure, this is how much the GR has advanced in those three years, they can afford to be bolder, bigger and more annoying. It seems pretty straightforward and clear to me, so, let me ask you: why is "why now?" important to you? what insight do you think you will gain with an explanation of this detail? This is also asked in reference to the stunt the GR is going to pull in the finale. Why? Because they think this will make people listen to their arguments, because it's their customary "in your face", cruel, painful approach. One can argue it's a stupid way to go about their objective, and I'd probably agree with that view, but it's a cult, they are not characterized for being logical and rational, so, I don't require any further explanations for this. Do you think the "why?" differs from Patti's explanation of the GR's purpose? Because that would be the only reason to ask that question. I don't think the why of this particular stunt has an objective different from what Patti explained was the GR's goal, so, I don't need any further explanations. Where all cults get their money: from their members. As the FBI guy explained to Kevin, they are getting bigger and bigger, with chapters in many towns. More members = more money. If they snagged a millionaire (and that is totally plausible), then they don't have to worry about money that much. But my question to you is: how would it enhance the show to have this explained any further? What is it you think you will gain by knowing where the GR gets its money? Would it help with the overarching plot which is (as stated by the producers in interviews) how people deal with a catastrophic, supernatural event of worldwide ramifications and move on? They were. On the night of the photo robbery, Kevin arrested a bunch of GR who were "trespassing" into school grounds, which was a diversion for the real stuff (photo robbery) going on. The FBI did tell Kevin that the GR was very good at skirting the line with the law, not really doing anything illegal, or at least not leaving any proof. Trespassing is not going to keep them in jail, even if they could make the charges stick. Since hey haven't been arrested for the robberies, and considering what the FBI guy said, it's reasonable to infer that they haven't been arrested for the photo robberies because the police / prosecutor can't make the charges stick. All they have is circumstantial evidence. Maybe some left prints behind, but unless they were already in a criminal database, those prints are not much help. I think we have seen that Kevin wants to put them behind bars, but he can't because he has no concrete evidence. Otherwise, he'd have hauled their asses to jail a long time ago. I don't see a problem here. Now, for number two, the best example that comes to mind was a discussion in one of the episode threads we had where you categorically affirmed that the show had not established that the outside world had been trying to investigate the Departure during the three years that have transpired since the event. I pointed out that this was not true, since in the very first episode we were shown a Congressional Hearing where a witness was being asked how it was possible that after all the resources and millions devoted to the investigation they still didn't know what had happened or why. You never replied to this information or acknowledge that the show had, in fact, established this fact, thus taking it off the list of your frustrations with the show. You went on to ask more questions in the same vein I quoted above, about what I think are small details. I could search the post, but I think I've made my point. I don't want to pick on you, really, I'm just curious if you are hate watching at this point and I wonder if no matter what the show does or what we reply to you (I know others have replied in similar fashion to my own replies, but I'll limit this to my own experience) you would change your mind? Not that you have to change your mind, off course, but it's a bit frustrating not to know if we are having an open conversation where ideas and points of view are exchanged to enhance opinions or if it's just futile to have the conversation. I don't think this show is just made of awesome. I have, in fact, agreed with some of your statements, but it doesn't feel as if you are approaching the discussion with the same open-mindedness. If a show annoyed me as much as this show seems to be annoying you, I'd stop watching it, life's too short to subject oneself to unpleasant experiences. Obviously, you don't have to do the same, but the reason I'm asking you all of this is to know if it will be productive to continue to have these conversations because if you just hate the show so much and you think it doesn't have anything good and it will never get better, then, there's not much we can talk about. Hope you're not offended. I'm honestly just trying to understand where you're coming from and what your thought process is and I hope that we can continue to have conversations about this show and other shows. At the very least, this one is not as bad as Falling Skies ;)

Below a summary of Amanda-gate (all emphasis is my own, underlined text is to differentiate the stuff from every episode; the events are closely related and I feel one can't discuss the one without getting into the other). Event in this episode (Around the 13:40 minute mark): 1) Char asks Amanda how she learned how to sow. Amanda is not being very effusive, she just answers, in a matter-off-fact way: "my mama". Char awwws and tells her how her grandmother taught her, and a cute story about jeans her grandmother made. Amanda seems to warm up a little about the story and smiles at Char. 2) Char's talking head: "I can relate a little bit more to Amanda now because we've both had second chances. I think both our hunger is even more greater now" As for last week, I've re-watched and this is how it went: 1) At the beginning there are tense looks between Amanda, Korina and Char. Korina says: "yeah" (pause, more tense looks) "just don't think about it" and Amanda replies: "are you kidding me? That's all I can think about". In the TH Amanda says "Korina, out of the blue, told me: 'you know I've been meaning to tell you that I think you're a phony', she actually used the word phony". Amanda cries. 2) After the button bag pick, when Korina and Amanda end up having to work in a team, Korina says in a TH: "I'm not quite sure yet how I feel about Amanda. It's hard to get close to somebody that you're not sure if you trust". 3) After they get back to the workroom, Korina and Amanda are discussing Korina's design (around the 13:19 minute mark). Amanda says "that's just slick!". Korina: "yeah". Amanda: "That looks so good!". Then there's a Talking Head with Korina saying she feels confident and that she's doing the design she loves in the fabrics she loves. After the TH we move back to the workroom where Amanda is pinning something onto her mannequin and says: "uh! I'm excited about this". Camera pans to Char (in a mocking voice, trying to be sultry, like one of those phone sex lines): "uh, I'm excited about this! I can't contain myself ". Korina: "Are you excited?" Char: "I'm mocking Amanda". At this point Amanda makes a face, like she's not sure where that is coming from. Char: "she said she was excited". 4) Then we hear a voice over of a Char talking head as the camera is still showing the workroom. Char: "Honestly, I don't think that it's fair that Amanda was brought back. I told her this, too. I'm like, I think that there's something ingenuine about her. That's honestly how I feel". Then Amanda walks out of the room while a Korina TH plays over the workroom: "Amanda is visibly upset, but I'm not really gonna worry about that right now. I have too much work to think about". While the talking head plays, Korina is smirking, and Char has a Cheshire Cat grin on her face, while they exchange what appear to be knowing looks. 5) Fade and Amanda are in the break room. Fade: "what happened?". Amanda: "We're sitting around talking, this morning and Korina told me that I was a big, fat phony". Fade: "She did say that?" Amanda (nodding and containing tears): "and then Char agreed" Fade: "oh, no!". Amanda: "And, I'm like, I didn't ask. And then they were like..". Fade: "something must have triggered it". Amanda: "Something... and I don't know... I was so tired... I don't even know". Fade: "Maybe like, Korina was in the bottom and you were in the top, again, you know?. Amanda: "Well, Char told me that all the wins that I get just are taking away wins from other people". Fade: "She did not say that!". Amanda: "She said that, she's like 'stop!'... it just hurt my feelings so bad!". 6) TH of Amanda saying she had no idea that's how people saw her. Back to the workroom where Amanda says she's grateful Fade walked in, so she could let out steam and Fade says he'd listen to her anytime, even if he has to send the model naked. Fade: "I really mean it!" ______________________________________________ So, my take on this whole "debacle" after having watched and transcribed both incidents, is that: A) even if Amanda didn't use the exact wording, the word phony was probably used. Perhaps Korina said: "sometimes you come off a little phony", or "several people in the workroom have told me they think you're a phony". Korina admits she doesn't trust Amanda, so, that is at least an indication that something along the lines of Amanda not being trustworthy was mentioned. B) Char probably did tell her she thought Amanda was stealing wins from other designers. Char herself admits to telling Amanda she honestly didn't think it was fair that Amanda was brought back. C) Amanda was visibly affected, and although she comes off smug at times, there's no justification for the idiocy and the meanness of the whole interaction. I've been on the receiving end of that cattiness fest, born mainly out envy (way back in high school when I got good grades and others didn't), and Amanda's reactions felt pretty real to me. Char ad Korina were behaving like bitchy teenage girls, while Amanda was trying to make the best out of a bad situation. She could have chosen to be a bitch too, but she didn't. She was being supportive of her teammate and behaving like an adult, keeping the end goal in sight (IIRC she did this in her season too, when she had to work with Michelle), but the other two just couldn't contain themselves (Michelle, OTH, also behaved like an adult and they won that challenge). D) After being kicked off, Char got a big, heaping, helping of humble pie and seemed to actually grow up. I believe her attempt at a conversation with Amanda this episode was her way to apologize; having tasted what it feels like to be eliminated and to come back. Probably thinking: "oh, shit! I bet people are going to feel about me the way I felt about Amanda". So, I think she grew up a few years in the space of a day. __________________ Design wise I don't have a favorite yet. Nobody has really wowed me with their fashion innovation. Then again, the constraints of the challenges don't allow for much. Personality wise, Fade is my favorite; his designs are cool, but I don't think they are high fashion, or that innovative. We've seen versions of his stuff around. All this to say that I'm not siding with Amanda because she's my favorite and I love her designs, like I said, she comes off smug at times. I'm siding with her because I think she was wronged here.

I think the finalists will be Sean, Sandhya, and either Korina or Amanda.

But she must have said something because in one of Char's talking heads for this episode, she said she now understood Amanda better because she too (Char) had left and come back. Last episode Amanda said that Char told her that every one of her wins was taking away a win from someone else in the competition. I thought Char's TH in this episode pretty much confirmed that if she didn't use those exact same words Amanda attributed to her, she used very similar words. Plus, last week's episode also had Char mocking Amanda to her face in the workroom and actually saying "I'm imitating Amanda". It was pretty childless and insensitive. That said, I give most everyone a pass on this show because the producer manipulation is rampant and because it's a high pressure environment that brings out the worst in most people. I think that if she at least saw her mistake, that's progress. But, I don't think she deserved being saved. None of her designs have been anything to write home about. I wish the save would be used for a designer who is consistently on the top and suddenly has a very bad day.

I think a lot of us were assuming that the GR want people to remember so they are constantly grieving their loved ones, but, after some thought and considering the speech Patti gave to Kevin in Episode 9, I don't think that's the case. I now believe that the GR want people to remember so that they come to the conclusion that life is futile, that there's nothing, that any moment we can all be taken away or die; and so, basically, agree with the GR's nihilistic view of the world and join them. Remember, so that you can finally see how stupid this life is and come smoke yourself to death... :D My prediction for the finale is that Matt's wife wakes up.

The prizes are not provided by the network, though. They are `provided by the sponsors who then don't pay the network any advertising fees. The way I understand it, the network makes money by selling time for commercials that air during the show, the price they can charge advertisers depends on the ratings, and if ratings are going down (which is what usually happens with all shows), they can't charge as much as they used to. If the cost of running the show is higher that the sum of all the money they can get for ad sales, they cancel the show. A smart network would watch the ratings trend and cancel the show before the cost surpasses the revenues, or if the network sees ad revenue dropping, they would ask the show to cut costs if it wants to remain on the air. The companies that provide the prizes don't pay the network any money, they provide the prizes in exchange for their name being mentioned on the show. But, these companies will consider ratings; after all, they don't want to give away a prize worth thousands of dollars to a show that nobody watches. So, a decline in ratings explains both, the budget cuts to one day challenges and the sponsors that are less sophisticated than the ones we used to have. __________________________ That said, I think we should start one of those online petitions to bring back two-day challenges to PR. Maybe if we get enough signatures, they'll at least have a few challenges that are longer.

I saw this and thought it probably depicts Emily and Amanda's thoughts :D

I agree but they don't have enough time to do full body make up

I thought Tom was seeing his first wife (the Mason boys' mother). They showed us the family picture twice: the first time Tom gets it out f the book and cradles both to his heart before presumably going to sleep; the second time, it's brand new again in a picture frame on the nightstand. They could have picked a picture of all the boys on a camping trip, if they only wanted to show Tom holding on to what's left of his family (Mason picture + book Ann gave him) while preparing to die. But they took the time to include the wife, to show her twice, and to have Tom say: "you look beautiful" as if he recognized the creature standing by the door. If so, props to the show for setting that up all the way back in season one when Tom told Ann (IIRC) the story about how he'd lost his wife and Ann told him how she'd lost her son. Tom said that he'd gone out for food and when he'd come back his wife was gone. So, nobody saw her die. I don't mind all the clichés, the tropes, plot driven character moments or the hugging all that much. What I don't understand is why everyone in the whole frakking UNIVERSE is so interested on Earth. I know the Volm have ages of history with the Espheni, so, their explanation for the Volm showing up is, at least, natural. But I still don't understand why the Espheni came to Earth. What do they gain? Soldiers? Resources? What?

Not quite. When they were sketching, Char said yellow, and they agreed on citrus colors. However, when they were at Mood, Sandhya picked that particular shade of yellow, Char said she thought it was too bright, but then went with Sandhya. In her talking head, she said she agreed to the shade because sometimes you have to take risks.

Wow! Michael Costello is shown solo. Good for him!