Pimms

Hilarious episode. I'm not sure how I feel about the Val stuff -- it might be veering a little too far into the absurd/bizarre for me -- but it still made me laugh. Especially since in season 1, Abbi (at some point) said "I think that if I had lessons, I could be like a really good singer. Please don't repeat that to anyone." Better yet: the old lady who asks Ilana "What's a FOMO?" was Garol from the season 1 Brother Island episode.

This was one of my favourite lines from season 1. So measured and cool when she said it! My best friend and I have been repeating it to each other ad nauseam in mundane situations. "I think I'll get the cashew stir fry." "That would be a mistake."

Whaaaat? I don't think I watched episode 4 closely enough (I'll admit that I was getting increasingly bored with this show until ep 5), I totally missed this. I don't think she's really put the pieces together yet -- Paul has gotten increasingly creepy/mysterious/inscrutable from her POV, but I don't think she's really gotten it yet that the police suspect he's a serial killer. She certainly didn't consider it a possibility before her arrest, since she let the kids see him. I think she does still think it's about him having an affair with Katie -- who had told Sally that Paul had tried to rape her/attack her. Perhaps Sally believes that Katie (or her mother) did go to the police and tell them either that a) Paul raped her, or b) that Paul had consensual sex with her, but since she was 15 at the time it was statutory rape. Sally mentioned "the night that girl died" because she knows that Sarah Kay's murder is the reason that Paul went to the police in the first place, and hence is the reason that she had to talk to -- and lie to -- the police at all. That's my interpretation, anyway.

That was brilliant. But Stella was super creepy when she reached over to undo McNally's hair. Personal space, Gibson! I am still maintaining a (probably futile) hope that they'll find Rose alive. But since they've been following him for several days and he hasn't led them to her... she's probably dead, right? Same. I'm quite curious as to what they could do in a third season, because things seem to be pretty close to wrapped up now.

Oh, I should have made it clear -- I agree that this show is 100% a drama, albeit with significant comedic elements. But I also know that in a category with Breaking Bad, True Detective, Game of Thrones etc, OITNB doesn't stand a chance of winning much or even getting nominated, as ThatsDarling pointed out. (I also wonder how this will shake out for next year, in relation to season 2 -- screentime was shared around a lot more this season, and I imagine the actors would find it difficult to find one episode to showcase their work, especially if they submit again in comedy. The most significant screen time for any one actor/character tended to be in flashbacks, which were usually quite dramatic.) I'll also admit that I'm not sure what criteria Emmy voters actually use with these things -- when voting for Best Comedy, is it just what they found the most consistently funny, or which one is actually the best show in terms of all-round entertainment? It seems like the Emmys always go to conservative choices anyway. Modern Family? Jim Parsons? Okay, then.

So, am I right in thinking that the only Emmy OITNB got was Uzo's? Bummer. Though I'm not terribly surprised, just because of the whole comedy vs drama issue -- the show and its actors don't really fit into neat categories.

I agree. The Emmys and other awards really just seem to be publicity-generating machines for whatever the 'it' show of the moment is, they've never really been about rewarding the best of anything IMO. And the sheer self-indulgence of it all makes me pretty apathetic about awards as well. Anyway, the publicity aspect of it is what makes me think that in the guest actor category, Uzo Aduba has the best chance of winning out of the OITNB nominees. A year ago it was all Crazy Eyes, all the time, and that's barely let up. Laverne Cox has a chance too. Much as I adore Nicky, I doubt Natasha Lyonne will win; she hasn't been quite as front-and-centre publicity wise, as some of the other actors.

I've changed my mind a bit about Bennett/Daya; I don't want them to get rid of their storyline entirely but I do think they should be put on the backburner for a bit. They took up way too much screentime during season 2. This show moves super slowly; over two seasons we've only covered what, like 8 months? Everyone else's storylines move at a pretty fast pace, but there's not much they can do with a fixed timeline like a nine-month pregnancy (hence entire episodes about spinach and prenatal vitamins). If the show continues at the same pace, Daya might only give birth during season 4. In season 3, I would like Bennett to realise exactly how immature Daya is. I think he's seen glimpses of it so far but it hasn't really sunk in that the mother of his child is mentally a teenager. (Actually, how old is Daya meant to be? I get the impression she's 19-21, certainly not in her mid-20s or older.) I'd love to see this, too. I want to know how the African American women will renegotiate their place in the prison without Vee. In season 1, they were IMO a pretty tight-knit group, but they didn't have any power whatsoever -- partly because they didn't have a Red/Gloria-like mother figure to rally around and who would strategise on their behalf. There's the potential for them to slip back to being the most powerless 'tribe' at Litchfield, but it'd be interesting if they decided that they liked the power they held in season 2, and that they can still try and wield some, somehow, if they work towards common goals as a group (and in a more democratic way than the white/Hispanic groups, where Red and Gloria still basically call the shots). That's basically what they ended up doing at the end of season 2, when they turned against Vee as a group. Though I'm not sure how they could improve their position within the prison without dealing contraband. I am so curious about what Nicky ends up doing with all that heroin. She's one of my favourite characters -- a great combination of bravado and vulnerability. I hope she takes on a bigger role in season 3.

I loved this episode for many reasons, but especially for the contrast between the higher security Chicago prison and Litchfield. Litchfield looks like a Swiss boarding school in comparison; at least they have that one stall with a door. Just the thought of spending all day locked in a cage with 5 other women makes my skin crawl. I'm not even sure who was worse, the woman who took four dumps a day or the one who licked Piper's face in the middle of the night. Is Larry's dad a practising criminal lawyer? I get the feeling he works in another area and is just doing this as a 'favour' for Piper -- which is appalling and unethical, at least in my point of view. If he doesn't practice criminal law, he may not have even known that he could ask for a deal. Even if he does, though, I think that his dislike of Piper has coloured his work as her lawyer. Or maybe he genuinely doesn't understand that when dealing with powerful drug lords, a little truth goes a long way to getting you killed. In any event - I agree that it was a dolt move to trust that Alex was going to tell the truth, but I also think Alex's initial plan to lie was the right one, at least for Piper. I think her best move was exactly what she did -- to say that she didn't recall meeting him. These events took place 10 years ago, Piper wasn't heavily involved in the cartel's work, and she was primarily there as Alex's girlfriend. The time frame alone makes it plausible, if not probable, that she "can't recall" who he is, and in my opinion, it wouldn't be worth it to try and prosecute her for perjury. Piper knows that Kubra is willing to kill people (as Alex told her when she carried that suitcase, and in Chicago), and she was getting a big fat nothing in return for her testimony -- no time off her sentence, nothing. Maintaining your integrity by telling the truth is nice until you have a bullet in your head. Alex's advice was sound, I think.

Regarding the state vs federal issue -- is it possible that some of them are serving concurrent or consecutive state and federal sentences, for different crimes? According to this, whoever has primary jurisdiction (i.e. whoever first gains physical custody of the defendant) will impose the primary sentence (i.e. the first sentence served). So if you are first arrested by the feds, and they don't relinquish physical custody of you, their sentence will be served before a state-imposed sentence. A judge may order a sentence to run either consecutively or concurrently with the other jurisdiction's sentence. So someone like Morello might be in a federal institution for mail fraud; after finishing up at Litchfield, she might end up in a state facility for the stalking charge. (Didn't she tell Miss Rosa that she had "four and two" left on her sentence? Maybe that meant four more at Litchfield, then two in a state prison; then again, she may have meant 4 years and two months). It's also possible that Pennsatucky will head to a state facility for murdering that nurse, and that she's serving federal time for something else that we don't know about. If they were first arrested by the feds, it's possible that they're serving concurrent state and federal sentences at Litchfield. The document I linked points out that state DAs are often fine with shifting primary jurisdiction to the feds for a concurrent sentence, since the US foots the bill and not the state. It seems less common to serve federal time in a state prison. With all this said, I can't seem to find any statistics on how common it is to serve concurrent sentences. The default federal position appears to be consecutive rather than concurrent sentences. All of this is subject to the usual disclaimer that I am not a lawyer. ETA: Just wanted to add -- there are some really unrealistic things on this show (such as Alex and Piper even being in the same prison) and I figured that if I could somehow make one of these things coherent, it'd give me more peace of mind; even if it is through super extreme fanwankery.

I actually don't want to see Fig at Litchfield. I think it would be a little contrived. I think there are more interesting characters out there, and we understand enough of Fig that I don't really want to see any more of her. But also, I think it would be deliciously true to life if she just got away with all of the embezzlement, at least for a couple of years, because the warden or whoever covers up the scandal. I'm interested to see whether conditions at Litchfield change now that money isn't being funnelled away. I want Chang's backstory, and Flores'. I want Bennett gone. Daya, boring as I find her, can stay. But I want the higher-ups to catch on to the fact that it's his baby, and have him go to jail for rape. I think I'd also like to see someone leave the prison and follow their story as they try and rebuild life on the outside. We had this to a very limited extent with Taystee (for one episode) and Alex (though she spent her time hiding out in her apartment; I'm curious as to how she paid for anything). Maybe they'll end up doing this in a later season with Piper, though, once she's finished her sentence. It'd be an easy way for them to fade her out of the show while not cutting her out completely once she leaves Litchfield.

I completely agree. I think part of the backlash is because she's a woman. I think part of it is that in Piper, we see the most common traits that we might loathe in ourselves: selfishness and lack of self-awareness. And the irritation is heightened because so many of these characters -- Nichols, Alex, even Pennsatucky* -- do exhibit a high level of awareness of their own flaws and motivations. And yes, this show is set in prison, the #1 place where you can and should be a little selfish, because no one else is going to look out for you. Piper's transition over two seasons has been fascinating to watch. I don't quite know how to describe it, but she's so much sharper around the edges now. Alex was right when she told Larry that Piper was fucked up -- it's true, but then most of us are messed up in the sense of putting on different faces for different people. Through Piper, this show has done an amazing job exploring ideas of the 'authentic' self vs the selves that we create to please other people. *'Tucky is quite nuts, obviously. But I'm thinking of that great scene at the end of season 1 where she asks Piper whether she believes in "Hussein Obama, Shakespeare books and eating at restaurants", and says that she has none of that -- all she has is god, hence her intense religiosity.

Definitely. And one thing I really appreciate about this episode now, on a more conscious level when I first saw it as a teenager, is how accurately it portrays rape culture. Actually, the entire show did that really well. But that line from Dick (that was this episode, right?) along the lines of "don't blame me because you got all drunk and slutty" is just chilling. I haven't rewatched the show in a while but I have often wondered whether part of the reason that she ended up back in a relationship with Duncan was to make herself OK with what happened at Shelley's party. She couldn't give consent, but then she finds out she was unintentionally raped (god knows there's no term for what happened) by the guy she had been in love with -- how the hell do you deal with that? One thing I find deplorable (well, there's no shortage of such things in this episode) is that Duncan left her there to wake up alone the next morning. Fair enough, he was freaked out at the thought of her being his sister. But drugged or not (and like Carrie Ann said, he was clearly more aware than she was), he left her, semi-conscious or asleep, in a strange bed, at a party full of people who hated her. He knew how rapey his friends were, he knew that no one else would look out for her.