slayer2

Esme can go ahead and go first. Her little pity party about no one forgiving her for her heinous crimes (meanwhile they dropped not stayed the charges) made me throw up in my mouth a little.

That's horrific because not only did she purposely sleep with Tony (not to absolve him) she also drugged AJ so she could try to pass Michael off as Tony's kid. That was the catalyst for all the nonsense we see today. Not at all funny.

True. Bobbie needs to remember how Carly came into her life with her vindictive plan which was very much Scream 3 Ghostface when she could have just introduced herself. Carly's first instincts are always the worst and Bobbie of all people should remember that.

And Ruby HATED Sonny, I can't imagine she would have much love for Carly wither especially when she saw what "Caroline" put Bobbie through. The writing was poor in the "Cam is leaving" scene because yes Esme is indirectly responsible since the revenge porn tape screwed up Joss and Cam's relationship and then she made her silly choices. Would she have made her silly choices without the sex crime, we can't say but it seems less unlikely. Of course the writing didn't articulate that and it was right there for the taking. Silly. I definitely think Cam is Spencer's best friend and his cousin so of course he's upset but they should have had Spencer and Trina needle him more on why or have Joss confess but I suppose her family lineage isn't predisposed to accountability. Spencer is definitely blinded by rage right now but what else should he be? Esme did more than run game on him she was part/parcel and the driving force in a years long plot to destroy his family and his life. Of course he is paranoid and angry and upset, what else should he be? To expect him to shake it off and move on is the kind of toxicity that we rail against when it comes to masculinity. He's paranoid, vulnerable and broken, but just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't watching you.

Ironically she looks like Sharon here. I think she looks nice. I also loathe The Rock.

I hate her Tessa, unabashedly. Sonny shot her son point blank in the chest then blamed it on her for not telling him and she still slept with him after. It's insane to me.

Bring back Katherine Bell. We all deserve better than the caricature that is Olivia stalking around the Q home. Katherine can bring back (real) Nik and Stefan and kick this idiot out.

Can we retcon Michael as Jason's and kill him off? I'll revoke the no-death to legacy clause for this one exception. Especially since Jason isn't so much a Quartermaine as he is a fl*sh-eating disease. Just a suggestion. I wish Ned would keep his legs closed to Bensonhurst trash. And for once it would be a situation where twins actually run in the family. Hurrah continuity, and it would mean this giant baby isn't a Cassadine so my favourite family (second to the Qs) would be safe.

If the show was "show"ing, today's Anvil with Ava and Trina would lead to Esme (faking her amnesia) accusing Ava of pushing her off the parapet and Ava coming clean about Nik due to needing an alibi. Spencer and Trina would go on the run (with Uncle Victor hot on the trail) to find Spencer's Dad (Tyler Christopher) they would weave the Anna/Valentin plot into this one and eventually Anna and Valentin would come across Nik and Spencer and Trina would come across them and Victor would come across all of them. Hijinx ensue and we get two capers for the price of one. But I'm pretty sure the show doesn't care that much.

I guess I'm biased because I started watching the show (many Moons ago) because of Brenda. I always found her to be plucky especially with the Julia backstory, absent mother and father who didn't care about her. VM did a great job making me root for her when she was doing unrootable things. I think the Qs was more Chem testing when ASjr left the show and then they landed on Sonny. It is odd and stupid that they haven't bothered to include JL in this storyline. He's Laura's hubby and the baby's uncle. It makes zero sense. Lazy, hackneyed writing I guess?

This! And your whole post in fact is pitch perfect and exactly my problem with this terrible arc. The burden is now placed on the people she hurt to forgive her and change to accept this "new" version of her yet when someone commits transgressions against someone else the burden should be placed on the transgressor not the victim (s).

Exactly! Esme lost her memory and had a baby and now she's Mother Teresa not unlike Willow. Redemption through the cookie portal and somehow suddenly Spencer, her mark and the guy she manipulated and emotionally damaged is the villain and she's the bewildered victim standing in judgement of him. Spare me.

Esme isn't comparable to Brenda, Brenda experiences happiness and empathy and she doesn't need established characters to prop her up to rebuild her story. Laura, Liz, Spencer, Trina and today even Portia are being sacrificed to prop a character that isn't needed. If she's such a great character then remove Trina and Spencer from the plot and let her stand on her own.

I do. I'm clearly not going to see it though but so far Spencer and Trina have taken the fall for her crimes. I want to see her locked up and offscreensville like Spencer was. Redeem her after she pays for her crimes that others have taken the fall for.

She nudged them so she could crime. That's the point and that is the kind of malicious intent that has her locked up. Are y'all really making a case to free Esme? Mother sympathy is one thing but, c'mon.

Filming them against their consent is a crime however anyone feels about Joss. Drugging, a crime. Attempted murder and framing, crime. The massive baby should be with Laura and Kevin. Esme has been shown to be unstable.

She drugged Trina, coerced Cam and Joss into having sex, filmed it, distributed it then planted the phone in Trina's purse and called an "anonymous" tip about it so 3 separate crimes there. Then she drugged and attempted to murder Oz (who sold her the black market phone) and he almost died as a result. She also set Ava's car on fire and did a few other messed up things to her while stalking her. I don't think Spencer confessed to ALL of that although even if he did that's still 4 separate and serious crimes on Esme's hands. Serious enough to hold her without bail especially when Oz went on the stand and clearly stated that he sold her the black market phone and that she drugged him to cover it up. Even more so because each crime thereafter showed malicious intent and careful planning and plotting. You can't even say she did these things on a whim, which courts tend to take into consideration for "first time" white, female defendants. These were all calculated and even worse the attempted murder of Oz was a calculation to cover up her crime. So she can't even argue "temporary insanity" or that she felt or showed remorse for her former crimes. Don't know why they're forcing cute 8 year old baby to go with her either. Seems like a stretch but hopefully that means I'll get a temporary reprieve from babygate.

*If*? Man, they're so south they're in Florida.

You're right. Everyone "reacts" for the totality of the episode then they all just go about their lives and their day and the impact is never felt. It's cheap, lazy writing with no payoff. Why did we have months of the Hook storyline that was supposedly centered around Trina but she never got to confront Heather about Rory or making her life a living hell? Sonny didn't want to confront her about Brando? Diane, Ava? Bueller? And this may he back awhile but did Sasha ever find out Esme locked her in that closet? Will Liesl ever learn that Britt died saving Joss' life? What is the point of these beats if they don't get played? A waste of everyone's time, the actors, the audience, the set crew. Pointless!

Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree. On another note, is there anyone on here who actually likes Willow or Willow and Michael together? (Just as an aside my phone tried to autocorrect *together to *torture) I haven't found anyone on twitter that ships them unless it's an extension of their Carly support so I'm just wondering if anyone does in fact like Willow? Everyone I've seen has been calling for her swift death.

We can't speak to whether or not she would be a sociopath with or without Ryan's influence however we can speak to what we see and how far her free will extends and it's pretty far. As far as grooming goes if one has a moral compass then it should certainly come into play with respect to attempted murder. Irrespective of whether or not Esme's sociopathy is nature or nurture her cruelty is entirely her own. When Esme went off book with both Spencer and Ryan it was crueller and more disturbing than what their original plans were. And her distinct pleasure in observing the suffering she caused tells me exactly who Esme is. I certainly think she has opportunity to be predisposed to sociopathy with two sociopathic parents but even if it weren't genetic the absence of empathy is prevalent in her every behaviour since hitting canvas. As is the masking (in line with narcissism and narcissistic traits) and the manipulation and viewing of people as pawns to her end. Granted, as many have pointed out GH isn't a beacon for realism however by psychological standards her very distinct lack of empathy for anyone and everyone she's come across puts her firmly in the category of aggressor and sociopath and potentially narcissist (or at the very least narcissistic traits) and not victim. By comparison, Stone for example was groomed by Sonny to do all manner of terrible things however when he did go off book and disobey it was to support Karen (aka Carrie) and show empathy towards her whenever and however he could and like Esme, Stone was thrown around the system, landed on the streets and then was taken in by Sonny (after he was stripped from Jagger). My point is they've written her into a corner and now are being lazy about writing her out of it and instead of forcing her to be accountable for her many, varied crimes, which she is responsible for irrespective of grooming, and sending her to prison (Spencer went there's no reason a baby should absolve her from the law) they are going the easy route with a mind wipe and the "innocent girl" act, however amnesia (not a brain injury) doesn't erase someone's core personality and Esme's core personality, irrespective of nature or nurture, sucks. People seem to like the actress which is fair enough, she's fantastic (and interestingly shares the same acting coach as NAC) but let's call a spade a spade Esme is at best a bad person and at worst a sociopath and the show went to great lengths to demonstrate either or both.

Trina wasn't a "threat" though she was a girl minding her own business when Spencer kept pursuing her. Neither was Esme a hurt little girl, she is someone who took pleasure in watching others suffer and causing pain and had she got her way Trina would now be in prison for Esme's very meticulous crime and exploitation of both Joss and Cameron. Oz would also be dead. None of those things had anything to do with Ryan. The show took pains to show her laughing at the trouble and pain she caused and to show that it was entirely her idea to frame an innocent Black girl in the American court system (and I believe Portia brought that up on the show) and to manipulate Joss and Cam into having sex the first time and drugging Trina so she could film it, then she poisoned Oz to cover it up as well. That was all Esme, it is shown to be entirely her and her base personality and Ryan was shown to disapprove of those things as he was focused on Ava, he had nothing to do with those crimes and they are crimes. To absolve Esme of them because she had amnesia and she has psychopaths for parents is to infantalize her and remove her agency. Esme committed those awful crimes with no prodding or manipulation from anyone else and Trina can't be assumed a threat for simply existing around Esme's boyfriend who was clearly pursuing her.

It wasn't all Ryan though, Esme did plenty of manipulation herself. The revenge porn and framing of innocent Trina was all Esme in fact Ryan told her to cool it with the cross-pollination vengeance and she disobeyed. She was even following Trina around while she was pregnant and supposed to be laying low. The narrative of Esme as entirely manipulated by Ryan bothers me and that seems to be the narrative the show is running with as well however, just because she has amnesia doesn't mean I do. This is a girl that would stir up the hornet's nest then lurk in corners and laugh about the devastation and emotional turmoil she caused. She's the GH equivalent to Terry Silver only worse because Terry has been shown to display empathy.

Yeah, but that's her fault, nobody told her to yeet herself off the parapet.

Spencer's entitlement over baby Damien doesn't bother me, however naive and foolish it may be. As far as I'm concerned Esme deserves the Mussolini treatment in the town square so IDGAF about her rights as a "mother" as I dont empathize with sociopaths. That big newborn baby is fucked regardless. Cute as he may be, his mother, and both grandparents on one side are psychopaths/sociopaths and (if we are to believe the baby is a Cassadine, I don't ) the other side of the family hasn't proven much better. That baby is a nightmare waiting to happen. They should revive Tony Jones just to come snatch this demon child and remove it from the timeline post haste because the chances that it doesn't grow up a supervillain are slim to none. That's what I'm saying. Since studios morphed into holding companies for corporations the opportunity for good storytelling has evaporated, instead they're pushing an agenda. GH used to lead the charge with BJ's heart, Simone and Tom, Stone and Robin's A.I.D.S, H.I.V story and all the talk around protected and unprotected sex, and sharing needles and later on Robin's opportunity to have a child as an H.I.V positive woman. Monica's mastectomy, the Wards and Bradley's murder and now we have two young mothers (one not even old enough to drink) and they don't even consider abortion? Diabolical messaging.