Earlfor1

This has been my favorite episode of season 5 so far, for reasons already mentioned above. I do have a question that I have asked several people since the premiere of season 5. Do you think Nora's future has already changed? I asked this because in season 4, during the wedding episode and a few episodes later, Nora's hair was longer and was styled to look younger than mid 20s. It only became shorter after "The Enlightenment ". Could it be that original future Nora was born in 2024/2025 and Iris became pregnant right before Crisis? However Nora changed the timeline during "The Enlightenment ", and she is now about 7 years older and Iris will get pregnant this season. There has to be a reason for the drastic change in her hairstyle and length. Oh. Ragdoll is what nightmares are made of.

Another red flag. Garrett's family live in Manteca, CA. Lake Tahoe/Reno is a 3 and a half hour drive from Manteca. I live 30 minutes west of Manteca, and I visit Tahoe at least 3 times a year. It wasn't the distance that kept them from visiting once a year. I also picked up a vibe from his mom and dad. I am in an interracial marriage ( I am black and my husband is white). My husband and I are liberal and my in-laws are very conservative. They are very judgmental in regards to our relationship and how we raise our children. They visit us once a year from Virginia for a week. I will be honest that I am on edge when they visit. I won't get political here, but there are times in which I told my father-in-law he had to leave and go to a hotel because of his views. He would tell everyone in his family I was keeping him from his grandchildren and son and make me out to be the bad guy. They think that my husband changed because of me, even though he was more liberal than I was when we met. This is why I can't take what Garrett says about his ex at face value, because it could be a case of perception (Garrett's) vs reality. I don't know if this is a case of the chicken or the egg scenario (Garrett's parents are judgmental because of their son's failed marriage, or his ex wife's behavior is a result of his parents who she tried to keep him from- according to Garrett). All I know that it is in bad taste to thrash the ex when she didn't sign up for the show and can't defend herself. At least Blake's mom was on camera and could have defended herself in regards to her cheating when Blake was in high school. (Even in Rachel's season, Olga, Bryan's mom, was in on the joke about her "closeness" to Bryan). I think it is ironic that Garrett "liked" a post about the Parkland school shooting survivors being child actors when Blake is, you know, a school shooting survivor. I really like Blake and think that he is a genuine person, but with this process and timeline, I don't think he is ready to be where Becca wants him to be. If they decide to date long term, then yes. However, Becca is ready for a proposal. I like Jason the best out of the last three remaining. Becca seemed the most at ease with his family and has great chemistry with Jason. I love seeing his parents and brother and brother-in-law interact with each other. They seem so open and at ease with each other. Jason brings out the best in Becca. Colton. Sigh. I smelled producer manipulation. Tia didn't even do a good job reading her script. All of this was to segue into Paradise (Tia) and maybe The Bachelor (Colton) IMO. Could you imagine what the tag line for a virgin Bachelor would be? I think I am done with the season. I will watch MTA and the last hour of ATFR. Just saw your post after I posted. I thought the same thing.

Head Bitch In Charge

I am sorry that you went through this. I did also. It was a three year relationship with someone who was emotionally abusive. I even went to therapy at the end of the relationship because I thought it was my fault somehow. I wanted to learn from that relationship before I began another. I would not have had the strength to leave him if it were not for therapy. Since I don't know what exactly happened between Garrett and his ex wife, I will say that there were some red flags in regards to his story. Unless there was some major intervention after the wedding, that pattern usually continues well into the marriage and he would have had a hard time ending his marriage because of his "bloodline" and shame for his disillusioned matrimony. Secondly, I really hope that he and Becca attend therapy. If not, there will be baggage in this relationship (social media, failed engagement and marriage). I don't want to project my experiences unto them, but in the end, I want all parties to be happy. There are too many issues between them right now that need to be resolved by a professional.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5860915/Bachelorette-2018-Garrett-Yrigoyens-ex-wife-Kayla-Cunningham.html I am including this story here as it includes spoilers. Since Garrett mentioned his ex wife last night, and marriage and divorce are public record, it was a matter of time before someone pulled up his ex wife's name. His ex wife wasn't on the show to defend herself and I think it was in poor taste to state (and to air) that she was emotionally abusive. She isn't some random ex, and everyone who watches could figure out who she was. Even if she was emotionally abusive, save that story for the fantasy suite date, and just give the standard PR answer that she wasn't right for him and he found out too late.

I understand that people can learn and grow. I respect everyone's right to apologize as we are not perfect. There have been things I had to apologize for. I also respect people's political beliefs that are different from mine, or basic opinions that are different from mine. However, I draw the line with Garrett. The double tap excuse is just garbage. He was a follower of those sites and knew exactly what memes and information they put out. He is not some 18 year old who is still learning about life. And yes, what one likes on social media is a reflection on them. For example, my sister made an innocuous joke on her instagram about the reason my nieces sat so still and were very well behaved was that she had threatened them with a "whipping" (wink smiley face and all). We don't believe in any sort of physical punishment. For her it was an ironic tongue in cheek because many of our mutual friends say that if you don't physically discipline kids, they turn out to be a problem. While the pictures of my nieces were cute, and I knew it was a joke, didn't "like" it because I didn't wasn't to associate myself with supporting physical punishment because it is not who I am. I also feel that he is dishonest. He knew who Becca was. Obviously, he is knows how to use social media. I looked at her social media and knew what her political leanings (are?) were. I knew about her philosophy. He knew a little bit about her background even if she didn't, before filming. Why agree to be on the show if the lead appears to be different than what he supports politically? Something is not right with him. While last year I 100% supported Bryan because I felt he was there for Rachel and they were a good fit, this year, I feel the opposite. I think Garrett misrepresented himself. He even stated on the show that he might not drive a minivan and so his appearance on night one was just a gimmick. So apology or not, I think he and Becca are doomed. I hope she realizes it sooner or later.

I think Winston9-DT3 was referring to Wendell's blue underwear (tongue in cheek) ;) he wore all season.

Coming from Sea Bass, who seemed perpetually high, would make me question him, also. However, Wendell, who at the end wanted to win the FTC, even told Dom to watch his tone with the jury.

I noticed that the people who spent the least amount of time in the game voted for him to win. The ones who spent more time with him didn't. That wasn't lost on me. I believe Dom was flashier so it was much more noticeable to the people not in the game with him as much. However, the people around him more didn't care about that. Secondly, I also noticed the ages of the people who voted for Dom compared to Wendell. Dom's votes skewed younger while Wendell's skewed older. I remember when Survivor first premiered, I was 24 years old. I used to get really worked up when the one I thought played the best game didn't win. Now, I have a greater appreciation for the social aspect of the game due to age and experience. I remember in my late 20's, I was in consideration for a promotion, and I was the best in terms of assistant producers. I was on time with all of my projects, and my work always had the least editorial changes. I didn't get the promotion and was confused. I later talked to my supervisor, and she stated that I was like a robot, producing, but not making the relationship that would inspire people to work for me. It was eye opening. I had always gotten along with everyone, had great work problem solving conversations, but I was also headstrong and didn't budge when I knew I was right. That was when I realized that relationships, not just working (game) relationships, were also important to succeed in my professional life. This anology reminds me of survivor. If one goes back to season one, Mark Burnett always billed this show as a social experiment, even though we see less and less each season. What people value outside of the game will be what they value in the context of the game. While I am not blaming Dom's voters in any way, I just feel that if they had more life experiences, they would have appreciated Wendell's game a bit more. That is why I believe they were more bitter towards Wendell, than Wendell's voters being more bitter toward's Dom. In my opinion, Wendell played a more well rounded game. Yes Dom appeared to be more strategic (Outwit), but Wendell Outplayed and obviously Outlasted better than Dom. I compare this to a teacher having to nominate a student for a scholarship based on no particular merits or qualifications. She has Dom, who excels academically (4.0 GPA), then she has Wendell (3.4 GPA), but is involved in The student welcoming committee, art club, newspaper, and is a student athlete. She decides to give the scholarship to Wendell, but everyone is complaining because Dom had the better GPA. In this scenario, they were both deserving. It just boils down to who places values on what aspect of the game they plan to reward.

Having watched the finale, I have to say that this season was edited strangely compared to others. It was so obvious that Wendell or Dom was going to win. It was just a matter of figuring out which one. Speculating this season has not been as fun as in the past based on how they decided to edit the season. There were episodes in which Wendell was hardly seen, and Dominic dominated the airwaves. It was all Dominic all the time. Now that the season is over, I wonder if this was to hide the winner or if Dominic was a better story teller than Wendell. I hope next season that the edit is a little more balanced. Many of the players seemed invisible, but they were making so many unaired moves. I am so over Probst and his alpha male fascination.

I agree with this. By the F4, I knew it was Ben, too. By the final 8, Ben had doubt and a huge distraction named Chrissy. I have not seen a season in which the editors would show an obvious winner with so many people left. Obvious winners usually have doubt and/or distractions. If Dom wins, I am sure there were footage of survivors plotting to get rid of Dom they could have used to cast doubt with so many people still left in the game. However, Wendell has doubt (he is perceived as the stronger of the duo and has been targeted as such; Dom has begun to talk about the possibility of cutting Wendell). He has a distraction (Dom). Jury connections have been established (seashell scene), and it appears that he knows how to manage people and votes better than Dom (During the merge, after Chris takes everyone to get water and demands they split their votes for Wendell and Dom, Dom wanted to tell Jenna and Libby the new plan. Donathan specifically tells Dom not to tell them, and Dom is flustered stating he doesn't know who to trust. Wendell, a few scenes later is explaining the vote to the ladies stating that it shouldn't be a dictatorship, but a democracy, allowing them to come to his decision on their own.) They are giving us enough information to show why Wendell could win (IMO), but distracting the casual viewer so it would be a surprise.

These are some great points. This is why I think Wendell could win. I believe right now, Dom has the better chance of winning based on visibility. However, his path seems too easy. Will Kellyn and Angela pull a blindside and get Dom out? Will it be another battle like Dom vs. Chris, but this time Wendell wins? Surely the editors wouldn't make it this obvious. I am not certain if both of them can make the final 3. Perhaps with the women winning immunity, the fire challenge is between Dom and Wendell and Dom loses? In order for me to believe Dom is winning, he is going to need some doubt in his editing (He can win, but x may happen. Or so and so are plotting to cut him).

I tried to find more statistics, but couldn't. I amended my previous post. It was 12 winners, not 11. Confessionals count has not been a good predictor throughout the seasons. However, since Probst became the EP (starting from Redemption Island), that percentage of winners with a higher number of confessionals became higher.

http://survivor.wikia.com/wiki/Confessional According to this, 12 out of 35 winners had the highest confessional count. Earl and Sarah's confessional count, If I can recall correctly, were lower than Yau Man and Brad Culpepper, respectively, going into the finale. Richard, Tony, JT, Mike, Rob (RI), and Ben had an overwhelming number of confessionals the episodes leading up to the finale. Many of the nonwinners with the highest count their seasons dictated the storyline (Tai, Sugar, Rupert, Spencer-2nd Chances, Coach) or were the most strategic (Cirie, Rob- All Stars, Russell).

I just binge watched all of the episodes in the last 2 days. Having watched them back to back, I realized that there is more substance to Wendell's edit than Dom, even though Dom has more confessionals. I feel I know more about Wendell as a character than Dom. Wendell has more jury connections (saved a seashell for Sea Bass). His idol find was connected to his love for Nicole (everyone sang happy birthday). This indicates connections he is making outside of the game playing. While the show down was between Dom and Chris, they made it a point to show Wendell mediating and Chris' respect for Wendell. Michael made a point to state that Wendell was unstoppable in challenges and if he targets Wendell, then Dom is weakened. They are presented as a pair and seen as equal, but Michael sees him as more physical and he may reward him with his vote over Dom. In my opinion, they are going to show Dom's downfall in the upcoming episodes (Kellyn has been shown discussing strategies with Dom more than Wendell while chanting Naviti strong. She will probably feel more hurt and betrayed by Dom than Wendell- as Wendell stated in the episode before the last that he doesn't want to get involved with a decision about breaking up Naviti. Kellyn wanted Michael while Dom wanted Des). Kellyn seems to have a lot of sway with the Naviti girls. They will not like being voted out over Lauren and Donathan. I think this is why Dom may lose. This builds a case as to why Wendell could win. This also explains why Dom may want to cut him soon. Last season ( I can't remember his name, but he lost to Ben in the fire challenge at the last Tribal Council) that player was very similar to Wendell with regards to the edit, but the jury connections were missing, which leads me to believe that Wendell is in the endgame. Dom does have have a lot of confessionals, and it is because he is active in the game and the game revolves around him. The current storyline is also built around his game more so than Wendell's (Chris vs. Dom, idols, maybe Dom vs. Wendell) He is also an interesting player and has a lot of likeable moments. However, he is too obvious and he does not have any doubts. Tony's doubt was Spencer and that no one would actually vote for him. Ben last season had a lot of confessionals, but lots of doubts if he could actually get to the end and win. RI Boston Rob had players talking about cutting him even though he was obvious. Dom has none. Wendell's doubt is that he is too loyal to Dom, and Dom could blindside him. If it were not for Wendell's jury connections, I would agree Wendell does not win.

Right. When he made the comment about fake boobs and fake cheeks, I knew he wouldn't be fond of Rachel's eyelashes and weave. I really hope we never see Peter again on my TV screen again. I really can't believe that nonsense he tried to spew about not being emotionally ready for the Bachelor since he still had to get over Rachel right after Arie was announced. It was interesting listening to the podcast when RS stated that Peter was he front runner until the last minute and he really wanted to be TB. I really wonder what made the producers change their minds. Whatever it was, I am glad they went in a different direction.

I have stated on the finale episode thread that Peter reminds me of my ex who I found very manipulative. Many people didn't pick up on the behavior from Peter, but having lived it for almost three years, the signs were there. I applaud Rachel for picking up on those behaviors even though she was smitten with him. While many people thought Bryan was a fake and a fraud, I didn't see the signs (Bryan reminds me of my husband) and actually thought that of Peter. One of my colleagues at work thought I was being too hard on Peter and believed Bryan was the one who only wanted to promote his brand. I told her then that Peter's behavior was there in plain sight, and one day, through his being the Bachelor (I really thought he would be the lead) everyone would know who I am talking about. I am on vacation, and my colleague texted me saying I was right and provided me RS podcast. I don't want to be right, I just want people, especially women to be aware of the signs of manipulative behaviors. There are people who believe she is lying, and I think there may be parts that were stretched a bit. However, before reading the texts, there were words and situations she described that sounded really familiar to my situation ( He doesn't think he can trust her so he will go off with another woman for days and making it Brittany's fault when he comes back). I was not happy with the part when she said that she was not that threatened because Rachel was black and he doesn't date black girls. Apparently, 8 of his ten friends who are black don't date black girls either. As a black woman, it sounded like we are not attractive and desirable. My husband of ten years who is white, never dated a black woman before me, and I never dated a white man before him, listened to the podcast with me and believed she had cultural bias to black women about our looks and desirability. He thought it was very insensitive, but I stated that it is how she feels ( I won't atribute this to Peter because I don't know enough about that as he also states in his text that it is possible to fall for her). Having stated this, it didn't seem calculated and she was interviewing out of spite. Her feelings and emotions were raw, and her voice was breaking several times. I hope she really moves on and works on herself. As for Peter, that text about taking a picture without makeup because she always wear it and he doesn't like her in makeup garnered the same reaction from me when he said to Rachel that the dress she was wearing was wrong for a windy day. (Controlling, manipulative, insecure). I really hope the Peter fans will now stop trolling Rachel and Bryan's social media account and leave them alone. I really believe Rachel's behavior on finale night had to do with her feeling manipulated (see her reaction to Demario- she wasn't that into him). She didn't want to believe that a smart woman like herself fell for his act. It wasn't because she had strong feelings for him as Bryan was always going to be her F1 (exhibit A- he watch, exhibit B- meeting her friends before meeting her family).

Peter's ex interview with Reality Steve. She pretty much details her relationship with Peter. She talks about his push and pull, and how he wanted to do the show for his business. The site includes screenshots of his texts to her right before he left for the show. Reality Steve also admitted that he found out his spoilers were wrong when he knew for a fact that Rachel was on a safe house visit, but Brittany admitted to him that she was with Peter all weekend. He also interviews Arie's ex.

Reality Steve has a podcast in which he interviews Peter's ex, Brittany Hanson. She talks about his push and pull, how she felt manipulated by him, how he told her he was going to do the show to improve his business and had no intention of falling for Rachel. The website also has screenshots of his texts to her right before he left for the show.His podcast is here.

I agree. I said this in the episode thread that Peter thought he was the lead and that Rachel was the contestant. Rachel's principles and views were what guided her decision, and she made it based on her principles and feelings. Peter should have walked away as he said that he would, but he kept pulling her back in. If Peter were the lead and he wanted to have a relationship outside of the show without a proposal, and Rachel, the contestant, did, then it wouldn't be her place to convince him otherwise. She either takes the chance or walk. Rachel said at the beginning of her journey, she wanted someone who wanted the same thing she wants. Peter didn't. Peter knew what she wanted because she said so all season. They were not compatible in that regard. Why would she take the chance with someone she was not compatible with. She stated that her love language was physical touch and quality time. Peter did not demonstrate a lot of physical touch. Rachel is smart and I didn't see desperation to get a ring. It was a symbol of taking a leap of faith. Peter was not willing to do so. Nothing more. I truly believe that even if he was willing to propose, she would have still picked Bryan (watch, better one on one dates, meeting her closest friends). Based on his post show interviews, he has made some inconsistent statements. (One being that he never tried to reach out to her. He said he did on ATFR and Rachel admitted this as well. In another interview he is over her and wanted to be the Bachelor, but he was concerned what people would say about him. However, later on he stated there wasn't enough time to process what happened with Rachel and ATFR. The most laughable one was that he wished that he had watched Nick's season because he didn't know she wanted a proposal so badly- she said it many times in her season.) These interviews were conducted after Arie was announced as TB. If I had whiplash reading the interviews, I could only imagine what Rachel was going through. Speaking of ATFR, Rachel had no time to process what she had just seen with Peter as she watched the break up scene the same time as we did. I felt she was very composed, as I wouldn't have been. So her stating that the show wasn't for him was real talk. He can't make quick decisions and stick to them, he is not quick on his feet, and quite frankly, he lacks the charm and wit to be interesting as a lead. I hope I never see him as the Bachelor in the future.

The season was still airing when she made the statement. If she answered, then she would have given away who was eliminated. I took it as a general statement as to not give away who she eliminated. She could have said any of them could make a good bachelor, which would be a good response from a public relations stand point. However, that is not who Rachel is, as she has demonstrated so far. She won't make up a BS answer for anyone. Based on what I have seen post season, none of them would make a good bachelor other than Bryan, but he is now taken.

We producers are like pit bulls. I don't know how many times I have heard "Promise them your first born if you have to, but I need the (insert whatever the show runner wanted) footage by yesterday." We have a way of asking questions to get a desired response. Sometimes we get the response desired, other times we don't. For example, the producer was trying to get Dean to say that Lee was racist, but Dean didn't bite. While he didn't say it, the producer's question remained in the postproduction cut because it was still able to present what Dean was insinuating about Lee. So while Rachel could have just said, "Peace Out" to Peter, it is very well possible that the producers "asked" her to have a conversation about proposals, and then she got emotional because of her past. Or, if Peter knew it was Bryan due to the watches, body language etc., but really promised Peter that he would be the next lead, then they "encouraged" him to be as emotional as possible so Rachel couldn't just walk away.

You know what, that was another red flag, but I chose to willfully omit this from my previous posts. I am in an interracial relationship (my husband is white, I am black), and we both never dated outside our race until we met each other. I could truly tell he was very into me, so much so that I thought my husband wanted to fulfill some fantasy. With Peter, I just didn't see those sparks. (I saw them with Dean, Adam and Matt, and of course Bryan, and I believe she was their type as well.). While I truly believe Peter is open minded about race, was somewhat attracted to her, and he wanted to give Rachel a shot, I believe that in the end, she wasn't physically his type.

Thank you. You are correct. It is all about interpretation. Peter's actions caused strong reactions in some people. Just because I found Peter's actions problematic and they raised some red flags, doesn't mean I saw him as abusive. He wanted the outcome to be on his terms, when Rachel, the Lead, has stated since the beginning of her journey, that at the end of it all, she wanted to be engaged. While parts of their conversations were heavily edited, I didn't get any indication that he was willing to compromise with Rachel (willing to move to be in a committed relationship with her, promise ring, timeline or timeframe for a proposal). He simply said date. He could have said that he doesn't have strong enough feelings for her to commit to her, and since she wants a proposal, he would give the other men a chance with her. They all were willing to propose. Even if he couldn't leave for storyline purposes, contract or whatever, Rachel would have played along until she could let him go. She would have had more respect for him and their exchange at the finale would have been more cordial. But he kept telling her he loved her whenever he thought he would be let go (in front her parents' house). If he cared for her feelings, he would have walked away. Let's say he was into her, but he just couldn't propose after 2 months and he wanted to build on their foundation. How is a healthy relationship to survive if there isn't a meeting of the minds? If she did choose him, would it be a long distance relationship? He gave her nothing, and I couldn't see the both of them in a healthy relationship. I watched with my husband since we are on vacation and he said to me during the 4th episode that he should mail Rachel a copy of "He is Just Not Into You" in jest. While we laughed, I just had a nagging feeling about him. By the time we watched the finale, right after Peter and Rachel's break up, he look at me, asked me if I was okay, and said Peter reminded him of my ex. So, people with similar experiences felt very uneasy. Finally, the word manipulation was ascribed to Peter because of his declaration that he would make a sacrifice and do it (propose). If it were a true sacrifice from the heart, he would have said that he knows how much it means to her, he loves her and wants her to be happy, because her happiness means so much to him, he would propose. Maybe that would cause Rachel to make a sacrifice and tell him that she would be willing to wait because she didn't want him to feel obligated to something he he wasn't ready to do. At that point, she would have felt that her feelings were being considered. Then maybe that would work. That is true sacrifice. But he didn't. A person making a true sacrifice never tells the person that he/she is making a sacrifice for the the other person. By doing that, it makes the other party feel guilty. Thanks! Me too!