Zola

@Melancholy. You have certainly opened my eyes/and mind, to your detailed & supportive explanations of the characters I really didn't have much time for! You make many salient points, especially for Debbie: and when I think about it more, you're absolutely correct with her and how she interacts with the president, taking a more direct approach compared to the perceived "nannyism" twixt Mrs Landingham & Jed - which was perfectly embellished in "Two Cathedrals" That said, I still didn't like Debbie "whack job" Fiderer! As for Amy - she reminds me of myself during my time at university not so long ago: outspoken, belligerent, combative and stubborn on certain issues I felt quite strongly about (and still do, although perhaps I have "calmed down" since those heady days, lol) As a consequence, whenever I watch Amy I have a personal guilt-trip because I sometimes see myself in her, and the sudden realisation of "OMG, I really don't like you, and nor do a lot of people. So what does that say about me?" So yes, I think my dislike for Amy is one of personal/awkward reverence, in all honesty. I only really liked her when she was going head-to-head with Josh (although I must say that I was shouting some rather rude words at the TV when she dropped his mobile phone into the bubbling stew, and cut the cord to the landline phone Josh was talking on! ) And don't get me started on her really DIRTY bare feet in the very same episode ("We Killed Yamamoto" I think). But at least she wasn't Mandy, ha! Rant over :)

I just noticed that when I created this post/poll I completely overlooked the option of letting other people post to it! So you could vote but not add comments,(I am still a noob to this site, hence my oversight, d'oh!) This thread is now open to comments as well as votes :) (And looking at the voting so far, S2 is streaking ahead! Perhaps we need Joey Lucas to give us a demographic breakdown, lol)

Season 2, remains my favourite season, closely followed by 7 and 3. 4 suffered through the loss of Sam; 1 had Mandy, 3, started off well but ended with a rather flat cliff-hanger; 5 - well, let's move on from 5; 6 - silly start, but soon found its feet. But didn't quite make the cut.

I seem to be in the minority showing the love for Nancy! Didn't like her at all I am sorry to say; far too shrill and stern. Yes, she could hold her own in her predominantly male-dominated environment, but for all that I could not take her at all seriously! Didn't like Tribbey either: came over a complete clown! I mean what kind of person wanders round the corridors-of-power wielding a cricket bat around! Or just barges into the Oval Office with no thought of following procedural protocol? (ie checking in with Mrs Landingham first, or even knocking on the door!) Am glad he didn't stick around past 1 episode.

The more contributions the merrier! I could have mentioned some from your list, especially Hoynes and Landingham. I greatly admired both, and I do so wish both characters remained as regulars rather than a) going totally postal as some kind of sex-fiend, and b) leaving the show to join another show, only to have it cancelled, with no hope of a return to this show! Never liked Debbie, or Annabeth. Debbie, was just the total opposite to Delores - just breezing into the Oval Office and showing the president little or no respect in terms of conversational manners. I can't quite point my finger on exactly what it was that really grated with me, but she was definitely no Mrs Landingham! As for Annabeth- I could never get over the fact she was the deputy press sec that never did formal press briefings behind a rostrum, leaving it to Toby or Will (neither of which I found to be particularly funny and/or realistic) I liked Amy only in the context that she could give Josh a taste of his own spiteful, arrogant medicine. She was like a Mandy Lite, with a slightly more rounded character, but still far from perfect, and I put that down to Mary Louise Parker overstating the role to the point of squeezing the life-force out of it! That said, she was most definitely one of the most attractive players in the show - her red dress-reveal, was particularly welcomed! Lou was like a cross between Amy, Joey, Donna and a splash of Mandy on top! But her painted-on eyebrows and shoulder tatts, were far too distracting! I was half expecting to come on with a cigar and a painted moustache pretending to be Groucho Marx, or some such! But she knew her stuff, and just added to Josh's rapidly receding hairline in S7. Joe Quincy - Nah! Like an Ainsley Hayes afterthought. Moreover, I was half-expecting Monica from Friends to enter stage left to tell him off about something. Bernard - forgot about him! Yes, I should have included him. A delightful snob, dry and excellent! Loved the way he took pot-shots at CJ for being tall, lol. Have met one or two Bernard-types here in England: they're so stiff and terribly keen not get too close to the riff-raff that they have to deal with on a regular basis.

Like many TWW forums, most threads focus on the main characters/senior staff, with a few posts trickling down to the lowly assistants/advisers and the odd family member. But one of the great attributes with this show is how interesting some of the supporting characters are:characters that perhaps only showed up for a handful of episodes before disappearing (not always to Mandyville!) Below are a few of my faves (they're an eclectic mix, and in some cases not overly popular, but I liked them anyway, and kinda miss them):- Margaret Hooper - despite being a supporting character, she appeared in just over 100 of the 154 episodes produced. She never had any major story-lines to call her own, but she was dedicated, very loyal, industrious, focused and just generally brilliant at her job, supporting both Leo and CJ throughout all 7 seasons. Of course, there was a brief bit of "Is she dating Bruno?" gossip in S3, as well as who the father was when she was found to be pregnant in S6. But we never did get to find out either! Bruno Gianelli - Brilliant in the 3rd season, outstanding in the 7th! Pragmatic, hard-nosed realist, dynamic and a brilliant strategist! It was also a delight seeing him ripping into cocky Josh over Tobacco and the subsequent risk of losing 3 swing states because of it! Lisa Sherborne - Sam's old flame. Only had one episode, but it was great seeing her with Sam again. Added some backstory to Sam's character too. I liked Lisa, and was hoping to see more of her. But alas it wasn't to be. Chris Mulready & Evelyn Lang - "The Supremes" ranks in my WW Top 10...No, make that my Top FIVE! (And who would have thought that coming out of the much-maligned S5!) To see both these guys argue over points of law, was a delight, and somehow lifted the level of debate throughout the episode, totally outshining anything coming from the regular staffers! Elsie Snuffin - Will Bailey's sister (or step sister?). Had a couple of episodes in S4 as an assistant to Will. She really didn't have much to do, or say, in all honesty. But she had a beguiling personality that was never fully tapped. Unfortunately she didn't have much of a future once Will had joined Toby, and therefore took the one-way trip to MV. Shame, Al Keifer - Joey Lucas' old flame, and outspoken pollster who thinks Bartlet should care about flag-burning and ignore the advice from his senior staff. A bit of an oddball, but played so well by John "Q" de Lancie. Would have loved more appearances just to see him going toe2toe with Toby again! Ronna Beckman - I fell in love with her from the off as a lead staffer for Santos' congressional and presidential campaigns. Bright, very loyal, and charismatic. Also lesbian, which as a lesbian myself, was very welcome but totally unexpected in all honesty. And I simply adored the moment she stood on the threshold of the Oval Office, waiting to serve the new president, with a look of child-like amazement on her face, was a true highlight! Ed & Larry - two recurring staffers, who never really added much other than to always confuse me as to who was whom. Not sure if they ended up in MV, but they were great fun to see around. Cathy - With the exception of Margaret & Mrs Landingham, Cathy was my favourite senior staffer assistant. But for whatever reason she only lasted one season before being shipped off never to be see of again. Always had the measure of her boss, Sam, and wasn't overly bestowed with his position other than to serve him well. Cliff Calley - In a better world I would have preferred him to the Josh/Donna Thing. I felt Calley was more suited to Donna's character and charm; but it wasn't to be. I also loved how he defended/supported Leo during his time as a member of the House Oversight Committee investigating Bartlet's non-disclosure of his MS. Moreover, he was good getting in CJ's face when she was CoS, coming away with a box of M&Ms for his troubles. Andi Wyatt - Toby's ex, and active Congresswoman. In lesser hands her role and story-arc with Toby could have turned into some lame soap-opera; but fortunately the brittle relationship spun this way and that; will they get back together again or not? Will the arrival of twins help bring them together? Alas not. And some people didn't like Andi because of it, especially after turning Toby down despite buying her a lovely house! Mike Casper - Worked for the FBI and did some work for Bartlet/Josh. A very understated part, but he had a great personality that deserved a few more episodes than the 2 or 3 he actually got. Sheila Brooks - Close adviser to Vinick during the presidential campaign in S6 & 7. A level-headed, clearly spoken Republican moderate, who valiantly steps aside when she realises Vinick isn't getting enough support from the Right of the party. Danny ConCannon - Loved him in the earlier seasons, not so much in S7. I particularly loved his rant at CJ over Mandy's damaging memo, along with his cryptic investigations over the black-ops assassination of the Qumari Defence Minister at the backend of S3. Ainsley Hayes - Kicked Sam's ass on Capital Beat. What a great introduction for this "blonde Republican sex-kitten"; she also held her own during her interview with Leo too, even if it meant ending up in the Steam Pipe Trunk Distribution Venue! But damn CSI:Miami for taking her away from us! Oliver Babish - Smooth, reassuring, no-nonsense, yet quite charming for all that. One of those characters that arrives with a bang in S2/3 (MS scandal), disappears again, and then suddenly reappears in S7 (Toby's Shuttle Scandal). I loved the way he didn't care for titles and protocols. Wasn't phased by Bartlet's "I am the president!" or Abbey's "I'm the First Lady" tropes either. Just as well he didn't have a cricket bat lying around, lol Joey Lucas - Totally phases Josh when they're introduced for the first time (Josh is hungover and looking horrid in his office when Joey arrives, with her Kenny signing for her, as well as yelling at Josh "You're an Idiot!") Joey was "Ying" to Josh's manic "Yang", and I did wonder if something might happen between the both of them. Alas nothing ever did, probably because Joey was just too mild and safe for Josh's masochistic needs. (although what she was doing hanging out with Al Keifer is another issue!)

Ironically, I once described Donna as the Phoebe equivalent from Friends! Slightly edgy, slightly scatty ,slightly dippy, slightly endearing. But a character I could never quite take all that seriously.

I never really took to Donna in all honesty! Yes, she was bright, sharp, quick-witted, and was very under-valued by Josh throughout most of the early seasons. But I didn't like the way she got to be Josh's assistant during the first Bartlet campaign; and I didn't like the way she would play dumb, or whine; or always end up in a hopeless romance with another dead-end guy! And then of course there was her little temper tantrum of Jack Reese, which again I found to be totally out of character, and perhaps in more realistic circumstances would have seen her being severely reprimanded. I think the only times I had any affinity for Donna was her frustration of not being listened too by Josh in terms of her career development; and that resigning in order to join the Russell Campaign was a highlight that I particularly enjoyed. And following on from that was the scene in "Tomorrow" where she is shown a large empty office and she mistakenly thinks its the First Lady's, but is in fact hers! A lot of posters have mentioned the phone conversation in the Oval Office twixt Donna and her former teacher, Mrs Molly Morello. It was nice, but in all honesty I saw that scene coming almost half way through the episode. Just didn't click for me I am sorry to say. But despite my criticisms, Donna was certainly one of the better written female characters in the show; definitely not a Mandy or a Amy. And she was very easy on the eyes and ears. But I really didn't like the Josh/Donna conclusion at the end either. Sorry, Donna

Not sure why, but one of my favourite S7 moments is from the first episode - "The Ticket", very near the end where we have Leo and Santos in the latter's office. Leo is wondering what kind of VP Santos wants him to be, and Santos just wants him to stump, smile for the cameras and think about a plan to speed up the transition into power should they win the presidency. Then we have Josh sitting outside the office, replying to Bram's question of "what are they doing in there?" "Making plans!" he says. I just love that special moment - not sure exactly why, but I just do.

Sam and Ainsley was inspired, and far more believable compared to his half-baked couplings with Laurie and Mallory. The latter being completely ridiculous and would have been a major handicap with any working relationship twixt Sam and Leo. Ainsley was like a Amy-Lite: she could stand on her own two feet and fight her own battles, but wasn't quite so hostile, defensive and perplexing as Amy. Obviously when CSI came along, it was an opportunity for Ms Proctor to ignore, despite the critical acclaim TWW had at the time. So off she went to Mandyville! Seems like Sam/Lowe got hung out to dry; which perhaps was one of the biggest mistakes the producers of the show made!

I don't have the same kind of adulation for Sam as most other posters on here. I liked the character a great deal, and fitted in quite well with the other senior staff. But it also played on my mind that I was watching Rob Lowe: the actor, rather than Sam: the character. And that for me was a distraction, especially with the opening scenes of the pilot, with Sam in a bar talking to a reporter off the record while eyeing up Laurie - and then shortly afterwards they're both getting out of bed! My initial thoughts after seeing that was one of some lightweight drama with the politics more incidental to the show because it's really a vehicle for Rob Lowe's acting profile than anything else. And I think that nagging doubt stayed with me throughout those 4 seasons with Sam: I just couldn't quite believe in the character compared to the likes of Josh, Charlie, CJ, Toby and Leo - possibly because they were not huge stars compared to Lowe (despite his controversial past). And when Martin Sheen made his first appearance, it didn't take long for me to "see" the character rather than the actor playing it. But I was sad to see Sam/Lowe leave: both he and Josh worked well together, with Sam being far more pragmatic and approachable compared to the aloof and arrogant Josh. It's just a shame that Sorkin didn't give Lowe more prominent storylines - although then again if Sorkin didn't want big stars in the show to begin with, then perhaps that's one reason why he wasn't too interested in Lowe.

This may have been done to death under different guises here, but I hope you'll play along again. We all know what a great show TWW is (and I realise there is quite a lot of dissension for the Post-Sorkin seasons). Nevertheless, can you pick out up to 10 scenes that really stand out in your opinion? (They don't necessarily have to be season cliff-hangers either) In no particular order, mine are as follows:- Toby pulling strings to give a dead homeless veteran a full military funeral. (In Excelsis Deo) Leo's wonderfully descriptive narrative to Jordon Kendall regarding his problem with alcoholism (Bartlet For America) Toby's dramatic "coup d'etat" outburst in front of Bartlet & Leo regarding the MS cover-up. (17 People) Josh's dealing with the Press corp and his "secret plan to fight inflation" amongst other embarrassing scenes involving him (Celestial Navigation) Donna being shown her new capacious office, mistakenly thinking it was the office of the First Lady (Tomorrow) Josh looking at a photo of Leo during the Presidential campaign and saying "Thanks, Boss!" (Election Day : Pt 2) Charlie defending CJ against Anthony's disrespectful abuse towards the Press Secretary (20 Hours in America: Pt 2) Josh's flashbacks of being shot as he gradually opens up and confesses to Stanley that he has PTSD (Noel) Donna finally losing her patience with Toby & Josh whilst being "lost" in Middle America (20 Hours in America : Pt 2) Josh describing musician Blind Willie Johnson dying in abject poverty, yet his music has just left the Solar System (Warfare of Genghis Khan) (I have omitted all the usual suspects (especially those from "Two Cathedrals), because they're a given! And again, it doesn't have to be a top 10 either; a top 5, or 6 or 8 or any number you care to choose will be appreciated!

On the subject of Vinick...... ... Forgive my ignorance (I live in the UK so am not fully up on the American political process), but is it really possible for a President of one party to commandeer a statesman from the Opposition? Are there real factual precedents, or is this just fanciful bipartisan thinking?

I used to have a high regard for S1, despite the constant, and mostly annoying, Mandy tropes. It was a fresh show trying to make politics sexy and accessible to the viewing masses in order to get them on board for the long and hopeful journeys into S2 and beyond. When I first watched S1 in 2001 (and only then discovered it by accident through channel surfing and ending up on episode 2 or 3 I think), I was hugely impressed with the writing; and that this was going to make for some serious TV drama, but without making it too boring and overly convoluted to make people tune out. So the fluffy romances were kind of expected I guess, beginning with the edgy Sam/Laurie opener, that I initially had reservations about, probably because I was thinking "Oh dear, this is going to be a soap drama isn't it!" Quickly followed by the Sam/Mallory, Josh/Mandy thing; the Danny/CJ thing, and the Leo/Jenny thing. I was worried that S1 would just be all about the on/off romances first and the real nuts & bolts politics a distant second. And even now, after repeating viewings, I still feel S1 is a bit lightweight, even though it has some terrific episodes, when the politics took front and centre stage. As for the back end of S5 and early S6. I am probably in the minority here, but I quite enjoyed the Jed/Leo conflict and eventually breakdown. For me it added a little realism to this long-going old pal's act going on between them. To see Leo wandering in the woods and subsequently suffering a heart attack, was one of the dramatic highlights, and brought us into focus that even clever guys like Leo are not immune from the odd prod from the hooded Guy with the Scythe! (That said, I didn't like the subsequent "Oh what have I done!?" drama from Jed in the hospital; running concurrently with the other hospital drama going on over in Germany with Donna/Josh!!) I liked Santos right from the off though. He had a certain charisma that would somehow drag you along into believing in the character, even though he was no intellectual heavyweight like Bartlet. I quite enjoyed his constant run-ins with Josh as his campaign manager, and the revelation that Santos didn't think he would be in the Democratic nomination race for more than a couple of months; while Josh had given up everything at the White House to see Santos get to the bitter end. But I also think the arrival of the Arnie "we've got no one who can beat him!" Vinick, played by Alan Alda, was a masterstroke! To go with a fairly middle-of-the-road conservative rather than some manic tooled-up Ramboesque parody, was perfect for the show. And as Donna pointed out "you've got a year to convince me not to vote for him!" (or something like that). So it was terrific seeing Josh & Santos go head to head with Vinick & Bruno - and to a lesser extent Sheila (although I wasn't overly keen on Lou or Jane.) It was good seeing Josh struggle keeping the campaign on track with concerns that he might not be the man for the job after all. I felt Bradley did a wonderful job with that moment - the self-doubt and petulance not least. I was so beholden to the campaigns that I really couldn't give a crap what happened back at the White House and all the silliness that was going on there! That said, I didn't like the Leo/Annabeth flirtatiousness - perceived or otherwise; and neither did I like the "happy" romantic culmination between Josh and Donna - felt so tacked on in my book. Great ending to a truly marvellous series.

Josh Lyman: "Let me tell you something (Danny) mi compadre. You guys have been coddled! I'm not your girlfriend, I'm not your camp counsellor, and I'm not your sixth-grade teacher you had a crush on. I'm a graduate of Harvard and Yale and I believe that my powers of debate can rise to meet the Socratic wonder that is the White House press corps." Danny: "Okey-dokey!" I loved Josh's massive fall from grace in that scene, and especially his "secret plan to fight inflation!" Arrogant to the last, but he has such an enduring appeal that you can somehow forgive his little foibles.

I felt for him when Andi turned him down despite buying her the house of her dreams in S5. Given the internal conflicts with other senior staffers and their partners, I guess the Toby/Andi Thing was always going to be doomed, primarily because Andi knows him far too well, and probably couldn't bare trying again, even with the twins bringing them a little closer together. I was watching Brad Pitt, in that classic thriller "Se7en", and a small appearance by Schiff as a shifty lawyer: despite such short screentime I could already see one or two Tobyisms in his performance and demeanour. "Babies come with hats." - wonderful

Season 5 is like panning the River Nile for gold - there are so few nuggets spending time looking for, but when you do track them down they really are wonderful gems! Too many troughs, not enough peaks, and come the final couple of episodes, you find yourself in a world of predictable soap opera, that dragged into the early episodes of S6.

Toby was a very complex character, but Schiff understood the role completely: sometimes Toby would be passionate about whatever cause he personally believed in; sometimes he would come over all sanctimonious, bullying (usually by shouting people into submission); and sometimes he comes off as dry and shrewd. He wasn't my favourite character in all honesty, but I certainly believed in him and his idealism; even to the point of getting into the President's head, pushing the boundaries of protocol in order to make Bartlet a better person! There were many great episodes, but one of my favourites would be "Drought Conditions" - which included his awkward office "punch up" with Josh! That bit was a tad silly, but probably necessary for the story; but overall I loved the entire episode, and how emotionally vulnerable he becomes over his brother's death. Shame about the silly "It was me!" storyline running through S7 - the writers really shafted him on that one! It would have been great to have seen him in "Tomorrow", but alas, it wasn't to be.

I have seen Bradley on a number of TV shows, and most of them have been quite enjoyable; but try as I might I will always see him as the arrogant, aloof, belittling, funny, self-conscious, awkward, self-absorbed, politically brilliant Josh Lyman! Bradley completely nailed the role, and really came into his own during the middle of S6 and all of S7 when he Santos' campaign manager, and the show was more or less all about him!

- I couldn't stand the Simon Donovan/CJ Thing at the back end of S3. It felt so hackneyed and forced. It was if the writers had no confidence in the original cliffhanger of Bartlet assassinating-by-proxy, the Qumari Defence Minister; so they thought up this "Plan B" cliffhanger by creating this awkward/mechanical "romance" with the rather unsurprising ending! Awful, awful, awful! - Never liked the totally unconvincing "an asteroid might hit the Earth" sub-plots in "Impact Winter" from S6. There's no real sense of drama, panic, urgency from the White House, the NSA or anyone! Bartlet in China having talks, and yet the Chinese don't even seem all that bothered that there "might be a new Ice Age next Tuesday" to quote Josh. A total pointless story-line. - The two interns in S5 - one for Josh, one for Toby. Clearly the producers of the show were worried about falling ratings, the loss of Sorkin and the loss of Lowe. And with the unevenness of S5 they must have decided to broaden the appeal of the show to a younger audience, and thus introduce Ryan and the young woman (who's name escapes me). But neither brought much to the show other than introduce soap-opera to a quality political drama. Then they just disappeared to Mandyville, never to be seen or heard of again.

Well this is my first post on this forum, so don't be too hard on the new noob on the block :) I have had many TWW DVD marathons over the years (actually I copied all 7 seasons onto my QNAP NAS box, to make life a little easier!); and I must confess to not only adoring the show, but also the much maligned (to some) seasons 6&7 - essentially the Campaign Seasons, and the gradual closure to the Bartlet Administration. There were plenty of inconsistencies and annoyances in S7, but overall, I loved every episode, primarily because it took me away from the rather mundane goings-on back at TWW! For myself, I was getting a little weary of Our Guys (Toby, Leo, CJ, Josh, Charlie et al) after 5 and half seasons; so I welcomed the Democratic & Presidential campaigns from the middle of S6 with open arms! CJ's promotion to CoS, and the ridiculous Toby/military shuttle story-line really hammered the last nail in that particular coffin! So for me at least, I loved seeing some exterior shots (Santos campaigning in NH, to begin with), with a breath of fresh air, in all senses of the word; and with the presence of Alan Alda's, Arnie Vinick, added some gravitas to those particular episodes throughout the final two seasons. I was also pleased to see Josh and Donna stretch their wings into new areas on the political arena - Josh as the overconfident Campaign Manager; and Donna, media adviser for the Northeast and Pacific Northwest, initially, to finally becoming CoS to the First Lady. It was great fun watching them both, especially the egocentric Josh. A great show all round, but I have to say seasons 6, and in particular 7, remain my favourites after Seasons 2 & 3.