Bergamot

One of the first thoughts I had when I saw the episode was, thank goodness they finally took the AU out of the sandbox! The snowy landscape was a refreshing change and quite beautiful, while still displaying the sterility and emptiness of the destroyed world. And watching Dean and Ketch in the AU was my favorite part of the episode. I liked the way the two characters played against each other in their interactions, and sorry, but I guess I like the actor who plays Ketch. (I'm not sure why I'm apologizing, except that so many really hated seeing him. Those who are not interested in Ketch should probably skip the rest of my comments!) In a way, I think Ketch is a dark mirror to Dean. They each were raised and trained from childhood by their family to be used as a weapon against supernatural evil -- Dean by John, and Ketch by the British MOL (he tells Mary that the MOL is his family.) They both put a high value on duty and loyalty to their family. And, as Ketch pointedly tells Dean when he is trying to recruit him into working for the MOL, they are both killers. The difference is that Ketch is a sadistic psychopath, while Dean has a conscience. I think that Ketch tried to use the "Code" of the MOL as a substitute for the conscience that he did not have. It allowed him to function as part of the group: if he acted according to the Code, then he was acting correctly. Plus of course there was the bonus: the MOL "kept him busy" by giving him the chance to kill a lot. Ketch described himself as "an incredibly good company man", and I think after he became disconnected from the MOL, he was at a loss, and was searching for a new place to belong. Because he truly believed himself to be "one of the good guys" in the war against evil, he really could not understand why Dean and Sam would not let him join up with them. I don't see how Ketch can be redeemed. He is like one of those people without a soul on the show, who can't be allowed to go free because they can't tell the difference between right and wrong. I think he is aware that he is missing something inside, but I find it hard to believe that he suddenly grew a conscience. It makes sense to me that he misses the connection that he had in the MOL, which gave him the feeling that he was relevant, that his skills were respected, and that he was part of something important. It doesn't make sense to me that now he wants to wash the blood from his hands, even given how eager he is to team up with (in his eyes) his new best friend, Dean. I can see a Ketch who wants to work with Dean and who maybe even becomes attached to him, in his own way. But showing us a Ketch who is now remorseful for his sins is not the direction they should have gone. On the other hand, if the show has him die doing something to help the good guys, to try to pay for some of the wrong he has done (as Gadreel or Metatron did), I think that would be the best thing Ketch can hope for as a way to go out. JUST DON'T BRING HIM BACK AGAIN. Because it would ruin the point of the story and it would be just stupid. (I'm looking at you, Gabriel!!)

I know you are right, but I still don't like it! :-) It is true, though, there is no going back at this point. Unfortunately. It especially causes a problem with any MOTW episodes. For example, in "A Most Holy Man", it was ludicrous to see Sam be all nervous and intimidated by the mob boss. These are men who have been to Hell and have faced off with God, Lucifer, and Death -- they are not going to be scared of some two-bit gangster. But what is to be done? This show is not Buffy, where it was possible to have an episode in which preventing the end of the world and getting a date with a cute guy are presented as equally important. One of my favorite moments from that show is when Giles grimly predicts, "It's the end of the world", and Buffy, Willow, and Xander respond in unison, "Again?!" Supernatural is a totally different show, though, with a different tone. At its core is an earnestness and sincerity that comes through even in the light-hearted moments. It's not designed for ironic detachment, even when it seems silly for the "guys who save the world" to be bothering with some ridiculous Monster of the Week. Having said that, I still hate them being all grim and serious when talking to other people about their importance in the larger scheme of things. Maybe a little bit of ironic detachment in regard to that would not hurt. What Dean said to Sandy -- "This kind of weird, it's sort of our thing" -- is sufficient.

Okay, that works! Actually I think there have been several good suggestions here as to Yokoth-Sandy waited as long as she did to reveal herself. But it still bothers me that we as viewers have to fill in this blank space ourselves, considering that the fact that Sandy was not really Sandy was the center of the whole story of the episode. I agree! And as @takalotti mentioned, I think what bothers me more than whatever explanation there might be for how they got the archangel grace, (because of course they could come up with some reason, whether it made sense or not), is the way that neither Dean nor Sam asked that question themselves.

For me, the thing that grates is not the "I" (I'm pretty sure that in "Scoobynatural", he says to Velma, "We've saved the world -- a lot.") It's just that this is another example of something I hate about the Dabb era of Supernatural, where everyone in the hunting world is in awe of the Winchesters and they are seen as these mythic, larger-than-life heroes. I liked the show much better when they were not VIPs and no one gasped at the sound of their names. I especially hate with a passion the way Dabb has insisted on making them into men who go around telling people, "We're the guys who save the world." Even though it may be true, I find it, frankly, repellent for them to be so self-important about it. Yes, Buffy's gravestone said, "She saved the world -- a lot", but that was her friends' last memorial to her. I would prefer that Sam had instead told Velma that they had saved a lot of people from things like ghosts. Or even something like what Dean told his mother when she first returned, that he thinks that they have made the world a better place with what they do -- saving people, hunting things. Aside from that, to me summing things up this way is ignoring most of the depth and darkness of their story. And would you want to tell people you saved the world if you felt maybe it was your mistakes that put it in danger? Reducing the story to "We are heroes who save the world" smooths away all the horrible complications, terrible mistakes, agonizing choices, desperate courage, and awful suffering they have experienced -- all the things they've been through that are impossible to fully explain to anyone else, and which to me make it unlikely that they would want to tell everyone they meet how they have saved the world. (A lot.) Sorry to rant about this, but it is one of my pet peeves about Dabb's concept of the show!

I agree with all of this. It never crossed my mind for an instant to think that Sam and Cas were scared of Dean; obviously they were upset themselves, and hated having to give him some really bad news, as anyone would be. I saw them as afraid for Dean when he exploded, not afraid of him. It was a very emotional scene for everyone. I felt bad for Sam, asking excitedly about Mary and Jack; he was really hoping Dean would return with them. (Poor guy does not know that there are too many episodes left in the season for that to happen now!) And I felt bad for Dean, having to explain what happened.

From my rewatch of the episode today, a few of my favorite moments: I loved the way Dean so resignedly said "I love books!", with a dramatic little gesture, as he and Sam faced going through the archives once again -- he was like a kid who didn't want to do his homework. And I liked the callback to this later, when they enter the other chapter house and Dean goes "Great! More books!" and then we get Sam's deadpan response, "You love books!" I liked Dean putting money in the little jukebox at the diner when he noticed Sandy's interest in it -- I thought it was kind of sweet. I also liked the way that Dean, when the fight in the diner first started, quickly called Sandy to him and told her to sit down in the booth. At first I wondered why he said "Sit down" instead of "Get behind me" or "Get out of sight" or something like that. I decided that he was already thinking strategically about the battle and wanted her somewhere protected that would be out of the way of the combatants. Just a little thing, but I like watching Dean in fights. This one was a good one! I also enjoyed Dean's sarcasm when dealing with Yokoth-Sandy -- such a contrast with his chivalrous kindness toward what he thought was real Sandy. He made me laugh with his "Let me guess -- you're not from around here" and "It's like a Hallmark move, but with tentacles!" That was almost some Demon Dean level of nasty sarcasm there -- not that there was anything demonic involved, but it is something Dean has in him, when he just lets loose with his inner smart aleck. Unfortunately one thing bothered me more upon rewatching. I could not understand why Yokoth-Sandy waited so long to "get food in her belly". Why did she pretend to be Sandy for so long, and go along with Dean and Sam, and tell them the whole story of what happened to Sandy in such an emotional performance? As far as I know, she couldn't be killed by any of them, so she wasn't in any danger. She was just weak from being starved, after having been prevented from eating people for a hundred years. So why did she wait to eat the young man from the diner when he came outside, if she needed "food" that badly? She could have started eating the people in the diner right away, as soon as they got there. Or actually, she could have eaten Dean and Sam as soon as they freed her. (I guess it was a good thing she enjoyed looking at Dean's face!) I kept looking for some reason for her pretending to be human for as long as she did, and then suddenly revealing herself when she did, but couldn't find it. Just another one of those big blank spaces left in the episode that we are supposed to fill in, I suppose -- it's really too bad that these writers seem to make a habit of leaving them.

This is an excellent question! I can't think of anything. Especially considering what a poor job they have done developing the stories of the characters they already have this season -- why introduce another one at this point, and specifically why this one? I guess it's because the fans who go to cons think the actor is such a cool guy? I'm sure he is, but that's not a good enough reason for me. And if they were determined to have the actor back, it's a shame they couldn't have done something else with him. Gabriel was not a good guy, but he did redeem himself in the end by sacrificing himself by standing up to Lucifer. Bringing him back now, and having him heal up and get back to his old perky self, just cheapens that whole storyline. For Gabriel, "nothing in his life became him like the leaving of it" -- but that's spoiled now. The other thing is, it is one thing to give a redemption story to a bad guy, but it is another to turn him into a complete woobie and demand that we sympathize with him and pretend that he never was a bad guy. It's just irritating to me.

Unfortunately I think that this is the reason why she wants to stay in the AU. From the tvline.com spoiler: It doesn't sound as if she is thinking about how it would be better for the whole family, and cause less pain, if she stayed there. It sounds as if she just likes it. Another thing that struck me about this quote from Singer -- and this is part of what I was referring to when I said that the writers will not be honest about the character of Mary -- is the way he airily dismisses the way that Dean and Sam were horrified to learn that Mary was working with the British MOL, by saying that they were just "kind of upset" with the fact that she "enjoys the fight". Yes, Mr. Singer, the reason that Dean and Sam were upset was just because they did not like her enjoying being a fighter against supernatural evil. It had nothing to do with the fact that she was allying herself with a group that had tortured and tried to kill them, or that she had lied and manipulated them into working on a case that killed one hunter and almost killed Castiel, or that she was willing to risk their lives to complete a mission for the MOL. Personally I would not mind so much if she said good-bye to her sons by admitting that she could not give them what they needed, but that it was her fault for not being able to give it, not theirs for needing it. But to me the implication in Singer's statement is that Dean and Sam were making unreasonable demands on Mary, and I don't think that is what we saw on the show.

Actually, I have come to the point where I agree with this. I would go further and say that it is not just that Mary cannot connect -- it's that there is something wrong with her, something that is missing, something that is akin to what is missing in Ketch and drew them together. The problem is that the show's writers will never be honest about the kind of character they have written in Mary. My bet is that if Mary decides to stay in the AU world, it will be presented as a heroic decision, and it won't be discussed that it lets her off the hook for her inability to connect to her sons. And also, if Dean and Sam protest, they will be presented as wrong for asking her to only be their mother instead of also a hunter (and again, straw man argument, because they never asked this of her.) And in the end I don't think it is fair to Dean and Sam for them to be left feeling that they bear, or even share, the burden of responsibility for something that I think was a failure on Mary's side.

No, they really need to kill her off. They should have done it at the end of last season, in the interest of limiting the damage to the character. Mary staying in the AU world because she likes being there is not noble, not unless there is something only she and no one else can do by staying there. Which is not the case if she just wants to kill evil things -- there are other fighters in that world that can do that. And to me it very clearly means that all those things she said last season -- that nothing comes before her family, that she was working with the British MOL for Dean and Sam's sake ("I'm doing this for you!" she told them), that she would never choose hunting over her boys -- were flat-out lies. Not to mention the fact that her insistence that Dean and Sam were trying to force her to choose between being their mother and a hunter was always a straw man argument -- I think they would love to have her hunting with them. And yes, I know, it wouldn't work for the show for a lot of reasons, but that is the writers' problem -- they should have figured out what they were going to do with her before they brought her back. The path they've chosen, in my opinion, leads to the inescapable conclusion that not only does Mary not love her sons, she doesn't even like them enough to want to spend time in the same universe with them. It's sad when psychopathic Ketch is more eager to work alongside Dean and Sam than their own mother is. So true!

Your ideas certainly would have made the episode work better, @Aeryn13! It shouldn't be that hard for the writers to come up with ideas like that, things that make the episode make more sense. It's just a matter of putting a little effort into it, if they only would. But that's the way I feel about the writing most of the time. I have given up on them having a well-constructed season-long arc, either in terms of the plot or in terms of where the characters are emotionally, especially an arc that ties back to what happened in previous seasons. Mostly I just try to find episodes or scenes that I can enjoy in isolation. And I thought there were some fun scenes in this one! Me too. However, in regard to Ketch, I am looking forward to seeing his interactions with Dean, but I hope that they don't have him achieve redemption. I like him the way he is. I like the fact that since he has come back, he keeps trying to join up with Dean and Sam, that he thinks he is one of the good guys and doesn't understand why they should be killing him rather than teaming up with him. Hopefully they will do something interesting with the character that does not involve him somehow becoming one of the good guys.

I agree as well. I have watched the Scooby-Doo cartoons before with my nephew when he was young, but I never loved them, and seeing these characters evoked no particular emotional connection for me. Nostalgia can be a very powerful force, but only if it is something to which you have a personal attachment. If the TV show they were trapped in had been one I myself loved as a child, I am sure that I would have been over the moon with excitement, but that aspect of it was missing for me. The reason I still liked the episode is that it used Dean's attachment to the cartoon and his feelings about the characters, and tied the story into the story of Dean's childhood. I may not care about Scooby-Doo, but I care about Dean, and so it worked for me.

Since you asked, yes of course I knew this. Copying The Maltese Falcon has, of course, been done so often that it has become a cliche. That's why I said, "If you have to use a cliche, at least use it in a way that illuminates a point about the characters or the story -- or, if nothing else, in a way that entertains us". Copying something, even something good, doesn't make your copy automatically worthwhile, whether you call it a "homage" or not. I did not find their homage to be particularly clever or interesting or fun to watch.

I have been disappointed for a while now with the writing for the show, this last episode being a case in point. It's maybe not so much that I am bitter; it's just that I hate to think that this is the best they can do now. To give one small example, the mob boss in "A Most Holy Man" was such a cliche: he sits in a chair stroking a Persian cat, listening to opera music, uttering vague threats in overly formal language. I mean, did Dabb and/or Singer somehow think the fact that he is stroking a Persian cat was clever or funny? This is such a lazy way to write, and does nothing to make him less of a two-dimensional character. Instead of just creating a character out of a collection of cliches, why can't the writers do something to surprise us or intrigue us or make us laugh, something to subvert our expectations (or to at least acknowledge the cliches they are using) -- something to bring the character to life, even if he is only on the screen for a few moments? I don't know, maybe have the mob boss stroking an iguana or something, and have him explain that he used to have a Persian cat but developed an allergy to it. (And okay, I know that my idea is obviously not a good one, but then, I am not the one who gets paid for writing a TV show!) Just do something to make the character more than a cardboard cutout. Another example of the writers being lazy: including yet another scene where Dean sloppily stuffs food into his mouth and Sam watches him with disapproval.I find it difficult to believe that anyone would find this amusing or entertaining any more. Seriously, in regard to this dumb, lazy joke about Dean and food, the writers need to stop. Just stop it, writers! If you have to use a cliche, at least use it in a way that illuminates a point about the characters or the story -- or, if nothing else, in a way that entertains us! Again, do something to subvert our expectations. You know what I think would be funny? If they had a scene where, for some reason (I can't think of a reason, but again, you know, they are supposed to be the writers), Sam is sloppily stuffing food into his mouth and it is falling out as he talks with his mouth full, and Dean is watching in amazement and maybe even admiration. To illustrate how the writers are actually able to do a good job when they make the effort, here's an example of character interaction which I think they have used well, without running it into the ground: Dean and Sam playing Rock Paper Scissors. I like some of the ways they have used it on the show. For example, in "Jump the Shark" Dean and Sam play the game with Adam watching, and Dean, who of course loses, bursts out with frustration --"EVERY TIME!" -- and Sam nods to Adam with an amused, knowing expression that says, "Yep, every time!" I liked that moment because Adam was watching (at that point I still thought that the ghoul Adam was their real brother) and I saw it as giving Adam a little glimpse of what it is like having a brother: the family jokes and little rituals, all the comfortable, familiar moments that make up a lifelong sibling relationship. Which of course was something that Dean and Sam got to have but Adam never did. Another time that I liked the way the writers used the Rock Paper Scissors game was in "My Heart Will Go On", where Dean actually wins with Scissors --a tiny but sure sign that there is something seriously off-kilter with the world. And of course there is! -- because Dean and Sam are in an alternate reality. I thought this was kind of a clever way to show this. But my favorite use of the game was in "Love Hurts", where to the complete amazement of both Dean and Sam, Dean manages to win. Sam and Dean's reactions to this are perfect, and very funny. The scene made me laugh the first time I saw it, and I have re-watched Dean's little moment of triumph more than once. As far as I know there is never any explanation as to why Dean suddenly is able to win here at Rock Paper Scissors, and the scene is not important to the plot, but it was a great pay-off to all of the game's previous appearances on the show. It was fun to watch. I only wish being able to say that about the show was not becoming increasingly rare for me.

Okay, I can accept that. Of course, having a belief that you and your family and friends will be able to make a difference in the world, if you keep trying, is different from having faith in God, or a Supreme Being, or even in the Power of Goodness. It's not about believing in miracles or religious faith or anything supernatural. The priest was not saved by someone doing a good deed. You are right, gonzosgirrl, that Dean does usually "keep the faith" as far as TFW is concerned. But even during those dark times when he has lost that faith, he mostly seems to keep trying to do what needs to be done anyway.

This is a very good point. And as Mystery Guest said above, they have already pulled back the curtain on everything. For me, it's not whether someone else (like maybe the priest himself) could still believe that the priest was saved by a miracle. The big question is why in the world would Dean (or Sam) -- knowing what they know -- have faith in a benevolent God answering anyone's prayers. When Dean said hesitantly at the end of "Houses of the Holy" that he thought that perhaps he had seen God's will in action, for me it was a meaningful and intriguing moment for the character. However, Dean saying at the end of this episode that he "has faith" fell flat for me. Faith in what? Or who? And why? For me it was a meaningless line of dialog, more of a gimmick than a significant moment for the character. Significant moments of characterization cannot be bought that cheaply. If the writers want me to buy that Dean is experiencing something or feeling something in regard to "having faith", they are going to have to work a lot harder than they have been.

I liked that part too – and the way he went into a little trance thinking about it; it made me laugh! I also loved that frighteningly ice-cold look that he gave the thug before he handed over his keys to him. Fortunately for the thug, the man blurted out a compliment to Baby – probably the only thing that saved him! I also liked Dean being so unimpressed and unintimidated by the mob boss. It was kind of a breath of fresh air in the episode to see Dean acting like someone who has actually had all the experiences we have seen him have. (What was Sam being so nervous about?) A man like Dean who has faced down and fought and killed angels and demons and monsters, and survived both hell and purgatory, is not going to be scared by a thug or two threatening him with a gun. The mob guys thought they were tough, but they were totally out of their league. (I thought at first that they were too dumb to see this plain truth, but then I got the impression that they might have begun to dimly realize it.)

Yes, I think maybe what annoyed me most about the episode was not the boring plot, or even these writers' lazy parodies of who Dean and Sam are as characters, in place of the three-dimensional people we have watched them develop into over the years. It was actually the priest being presented as the "most holy man" and the voice of wisdom for the brothers. Sure, he is a nice guy, and he had done a lot of charity work throughout his life. But there was no indication that he had ever faced down any true evil in the world, or ever had to make any agonizing choices when trying to do the right thing, or ever had to suffer in any way for what he believed before now. Has he ever had to sacrifice someone he loved for the greater good, or confronted God to His face and asked him why he did nothing about all the pain in the world? He was given this supposedly important mission of getting back the skull, but was ready to give up when things didn't go according to plan. Good thing it was just an old skull and not someone's life at stake. Yet this man was giving Dean and Sam a little lecture about not giving enough effort to try to make the world a better place, because of their "sins" and their "failings" and their "laziness"? Sure, he didn't know anything about them, and he was charmingly self-deprecating about his little sermon ("I'm sorry, I know I talk too much.") It was still bizarre the way that they acted as if he was talking about something they had never considered before. This episode was such a shallow, facile portrayal of faith and holiness. I definitely did not want either Dean or Sam to qualify as the "most holy", but why not dig a little deeper, even in what was supposed to be a "light" episode? Making the object of their quest turn out to be this nice, naive priest, his holiness rubber-stamped on him by the Pope himself, was just about the most uninteresting story choice they could have made. Just think how interesting it would have been if the holy man had turned out to be someone you never would have expected, someone whose holiness was not apparent to the world, someone who appeared totally unimportant or off-putting in some way but still was making the world a better place. Go in a direction I didn't expect, Supernatural writers -- at least put a little effort into it.

The show really needs to just stop with these dreary, leadfooted "crime caper" episodes that are supposedly such sparkling fun and instead are so incredibly tedious. What's really sad is that it occurred to me that you could have made one group of antagonists in this episode into demons and another group into angels and it would have barely changed the story. I don't know if it is Dabb -- or Singer, or whoever -- that is obsessed with crime melodramas about mob bosses and their thugs, but they have really sucked the supernatural out of the show's portrayal of both angels and demons and made them dreary and tedious to watch as well.

No, I don't see it ever happening either. Who knows why, although I have my suspicions. (Not because Jensen wouldn't want to do it, though -- that I do not believe, unless someone has a quote of him saying so.) It's funny how the idea bothers people so much -- just the mere suggestion has them nervously lining up with a list of reasons of why it cannot and should not happen. My love for Dean surpasses all bounds, but the reason I watch the show is to see Jensen act. So I would miss seeing Dean, but I would absolutely watch the show if they had Dean/Michael. He would be awesome! Can you imagine? Jensen's portrayal would totally blow all their other bad guys -- like Lucifer and Asmodeus and alt-Michael -- completely OFF THE SCREEN! Of that I have no doubt! But I agree with those that don't think it will happen.

Yeah, you are right. At least Sam got to show that he was upset about their plan going awry. All Dean gets to do lately is ask the other characters how they are doing. Otherwise he has been quite chipper and cheerful, and you are correct: if we were supposed to be seeing Dean repressing his emotions, we would absolutely be able to tell. It's like the writers can't handle a complicated scenario of more than one of them having emotions at once. Maybe next episode Dean and Sam will get to talk about saving their mother, and Dean's part of the conversation will be more than asking Sam how he is doing and being chipper and determined about their chances. I'm not going to hold my breath for it though.

I never blamed Mary for making the deal either, in the sense that I think it makes her a horrible or evil person. She was being used as a pawn, and she was only human, and she made a horrible, tragic mistake that affected many lives. But in this episode they made it sound as if she should be absolved of even having made a mistake. Bobby refers to Mary as a "complicated woman", but in my opinion these writers don't want her to be a complicated woman; they want to simplify her. Creating a sympathetic character doesn't mean you have to make them two-dimensional. It's similar to the problem I have with the character of Jack. This is what I was thinking the show meant by having alternate universes. I like the way you describe it; so many interesting universes could exist! I wonder, though, if the writers would agree with you that there could be a universe where Dean and Sam were born but didn't stop the apocalypse. That's part of the problem I have with the conversation with Mary and Bobby, where it is just assumed that Dean and Sam existing automatically equals no apocalypse. It wasn't always this way on the show, but Dean and Sam are now practically superheroes (they refer to themselves as "the guys that save the world".) It's their Destiny, and they are the Heroes, and if they are around, the world will be saved. I liked it better when it was Michael and Lucifer who were both insisting that Dean and Sam had a destiny that could not be altered, and Dean and Sam were standing up for free will. I remember when Michael told Dean that free will is an illusion, calling him "one unimportant little man" and asking him what made him think he got to choose. Dean responded -- and this is one of my favorite quotes from the show -- "Because I got to believe that I can choose what I do with my unimportant little life." If we all have free will, then we can make choices that will change things, either for the worst or for better. I guess I just preferred the show when Dean and Sam were not accepted by everyone as the big heroes of the universe. I liked it better when they were unimportant and disregarded and still managed to change things just enough to save the day, because they refused to accept that everything to come was written in stone.

I didn't say I thought Mary got a migraine from the torture -- she did. She says to Jack, "Your head hurts? Mine too. I've had migraines ever since they locked me in here. I thought it was from the torture." I just thought (and still do) that it was a silly thing to say, as if the aim of months of torture by Michael and his thugs was to make her head hurt. But mostly I did not like it because it is a part of a pattern in the way the show presents Mary. We are told by the narrative that Mary has been tortured -- not just kept prisoner, not just treated badly or made uncomfortable, but tortured. Except there is no sign of it when we see her. I get the feeling that the show is telling me that Mary is just so brave and so tough that it did not affect her. I would not be surprised if that was the idea, because the show has been doing this from the start with Mary, telling us instead of showing us. They tell us that she is an awesome hunter, that she cares about her sons, that she "made the right choice" by making a demon deal. If the show wants me to believe all this about Mary, they need to do less Tell and more Show because I'm not buying it. Exactly! I think that one reason is that Bobby has always been the voice of the writers, and in this case they used him to Tell us more about how awesome Mary is, that she has made the right choices, that she has done a good job with her boys, and so on. A nice shortcut for them, so that they don't have to actually do the work of Showing us all this.

I agree! And as for the alternate versions of characters they've brought back, they have been really uninteresting. Alt Bobby is just regular Bobby, wearing a different hat. Alt Michael is boring. Alt Zachariah was especially disappointing, considering how much fun it was to watch the original slimeball! Nothing against the new actor, I liked him, but they gave him nothing to do but be Angel Thug #2. They ought to be more careful about choosing to re-do characters, because I think it is very revealing to compare them to the originals. I didn't either. And I honestly don't believe that Dean and Sam would have either, considering the situation. The conflict over Donatello's fate felt to me like contrived drama on the writers' part that didn't really move me one way or another. Anyway, I feel as if I've seen this same sequence before, more than once: Cas says he feels useless, then something dramatic happens, then he swells with wrath and strides forward to declare with flinty eyes that he must act! Maybe that's why I don't feel anymore as if it really means anything, because the characters always seem to return to square one. Compare it to a similar sequence in Season 2, in the Croatoan episode, where Dean locks Sam in to go kill Duane. I absolutely didn't know what Dean was going to do in that scene, and it mattered very much. There was a lot going on in that episode with the character arcs of both Dean and Sam, and their actions and decisions there were important and had consequences for who they were. Nowadays on the show I feel that scenes like this are manufactured for "feels", but don't really mean anything as far as characterization.

Yes, Mary was in remarkably good shape for someone who had been tortured for months so severely that even Lucifer found it excessive. I have to admit that I snickered when she commented that she thought she was getting migraines from the torture -- oh, certainly, my dear, being tortured always gives me SUCH a migraine too! And I thought it was silly too, and pretty lame, when it turned out that they had to stand in a certain spot (conveniently right next to the window!) in order for Jack to be able to use his powers. It was just like when I moved into my new house and discovered that I could only use my phone when I stood in a certain spot by the front room window. Speaking of Jack, I did wonder briefly how he learned to do shadow puppets. I guess Kelly must have taught him in the womb? Or I don't know, maybe he just figured it out on his own, since he is the cutest, sweetest, truest, kindest bravest little muffin ever. I mean, okay, yes, he absolutely is the sweetest thing ever, he really is, but what is the point of introducing Lucifer's son as a major character if he ought to come with a warning label for diabetics? There are no dimensions to him as a character; the only way he is ever going to do anything wrong is by accident or if someone misleads him. It makes all Dean and Sam's wrangling and angst over him at the beginning seem pointless and idiotic -- all they had to do was wait for his true sweet nature to show itself. Oh my God yes. So they take Mary making a deal with the Yellow-Eyed Demon -- the dark, twisted, anguished knot at the heart of the character -- at the heart of the whole show, really -- and smooth it out and tidy it up and put it to bed. It all seems so simple now. Thank goodness Mary locked lips with that demon wearing her dead father's body -- otherwise the world could not have been saved by Dean and Sam! That settles that problem! She "made the right choice" -- no need to worry about any ramifications or after-effects. (I guess that should also apply to any other bad decisions they have all made to save each other? No guilt for anyone!) And speaking of guilt erasure, what the heck was alt-Bobby talking about when he assured Mary that she had "done good by her boys"? In what way? In what sense? Could he give some examples please? The most enjoyable part of the episode for me was Dean taking down Og and Magog. It was pretty much a pointless side trip from the story, but I always enjoy watching Dean fight! Typical episode, in my opinion -- there are always a few bright spots, but overall, the writing for this show is just sad now.