Portia4844

How is Sansa coming off stronger in Season 5? Is it because she suggested to Ramsey that the baby could be a problem, trying to get through to Theon, putting the candle out, picking up the tool off the ledge, picking the lock, making a few snarky comments, being willing to die rather than continue being tortured, and jumping off the wall? She endured the abuse much like she did in King's Landing, made snarky comments, and made choices that got her out of KL. I don't see how she was any different than she's always been with the exception of now preferring death to continuing on as she has been. Nothing about her time at Winterfell comes off as Sansa becoming stronger. It was all about Ramsey and Theon and using Sansa in the place of JP.

The show certainly made him more willing than the books, but he was willing to burn his nephew and allowed Mel to kill his brother. He could have beheaded who he thought was Mance rather than burning him. But you're correct, the show certainly made him so much worse than who he was in the books.

The writers did an interview where they said Stannis has been allowing Mel to burn/kill people for a long time and now fans are suddenly upset because it happened to someone they cared about. It didn't sound like they ever understood the whole Stannis the Mannis fan base when he has always been someone who would destroy anyone to become King. He was unlikeable from the moment he cut off Davos fingers. Jesus...the man just saved his life and he still couldn't extend mercy. Why would I think he'd extend any to Shireen when the throne and kingdom was dangled like a carrot. I hope Brienne shows no mercy either. In fact, I'll be pissed if he's still alive. After all Sansa has gone through, it's more surprising that she isn't sitting in the corner babbling and banging her head on the wall. Theon being involved in her escape is fine with me....whatever it takes to get her out of there. It was uncomfortable watching what she's had to endure and so it would have been easier if she had wised up....took more control....grabbed a knife, whatever. I can't fault her for how she's dealt with it all. She is still growing and changing and sometimes that times a long time.

Unless fighting like the Sand Snakes means sticking them with the pointy end filled with poison. :-) Watching them was so cringeworthy and what was the "you want bad pussy" all about? Haha! I agree on LittleFinger and you may be right on it just being some setup for next season in the previews. Otherwise, it seems a complete waste.

The Starks were up to something? There was no reason for Cat to sneak into King's Landing like she was some spy on a mission. Her husband and daughters were there so she could have walked through the gates and visited with them openly. Instead, she was all cloak and dagger and secret meetings as if all of them would be able to read her mind and know what she was really up to. Arrest him or let him go? Did she suddenly forget that he wasn't in hiding and could have been tracked down at any time? Did she think that Tyrion seeing her in that particular place would alert him to her spy mission and secret agenda? Could she not have said she was on her way home from visiting Ned and the girls in King's Landing? Was there fear that he'd think....damn...you left Bran all alone to run off to King's Landing....you must be up to something!!!! Cat's foolishness has no justification. She acted foolish from the get-go and brought about all kinds of crap on her family....the family that she loved so much.

I find it beyond silly that Cat could grow to love Ned and appear to have forgiven his infidelity yet couldn't forgive a child who did nothing wrong. It says something about her that she continued to view Jon as some scab being ripped off whenever she had to see him. How long did she need to carry a grudge and how shallow was the love she felt for Ned or any forgiveness she extended to him if seeing Jon triggered all that anger and bitterness. And what does it say about her character that she was fine with taking it out on a defenseless and innocent child? Ned was smart to keep it from her. Even LF knew how easy Cat and her sister were to play. He got them both to react and do what he wanted because they were both slightly crazy and acted without thinking about the consequences of their actions. What kind of idiot takes a Lannister hostage when her husband and daughters are living with the Lannisters? What would she have done to get her daughters back from them if she'd know who Jon really was?

Lucidabelle--if you and so many more weren't buying what they're selling, the show wouldn't be successful which would be sad for millions of fans. :-)

I haven't trusted the writers when it comes to what they say is actually going on since they said Jamie didn't rape Cersei when it clearly looked like rape. It's hard to imagine they believe Sansa was empowered and making her own choices when that isn't what we were shown on the show. If they actually believe what they're saying, they have a very different view of being assertive and consensual sex than I do. The actors going along with it and saying it was something clearly different than what we were shown sounds more like going along with whatever the writers say it was. I've never been a fan of book adaptions that completely change someone's personality and turn someone who wasn't a killer into one or someone who wasn't stupid into a complete moron. The changes the writer's made in personalities and in the basic stories of various characters didn't enhance the story in a positive way that takes what GRRM wrote, condenses it, and makes it more understandable. The book made Jon being stabbed understandable while the show left me thinking....what the bloody hell was that? Same with Sansa, the Sand snakes, LF, Loras, and so on.

I thought the car crash happened when she was saying how cold she was and he was trying to take off his jacket or hand it to her. But, I'll have to re-watch as my impression could be wrong. Riley's backstory was so tragic. Hopefully, season 2 will include her healing and becoming more than someone needing to be rescued.

Cat didn't have to force herself to care about Jon. However, she could have forced herself to stop being a bitch towards him. How is treating an innocent child in a shitty way showing some sort of agency? There's no evidence that her life with Ned, other than him bringing Jon home, was some awful cross to bear. All I thought when reading her POV was Get off the damn cross we need the wood and stop making a child pay for your unresolved anger issues at Ned. There's no evidence to suggest Ned did or would have abused her because she expressed anger over the situation. My issue with Ned was him not telling her to take it out on him and not Jon. Granted, I didn't like her in the books and even less on the show. I saw her as making choices that had deadly consequences to Ned and to the children she loved so much. In the end, Jon was the only one her choices didn't destroy unless we count him being at the Wall because she didn't want him around.

I'm not sure why it matters where on the scale Ned falls as a husband. Cat was vindictive shrew who couldn't make a good decision when anyone's life depended on it and ended up causing countless damage to her own family because of it. She may have not had any choice in marrying Ned but there's no evidence that he violated her sexually or was physically abusive. He didn't share a secret and kept a promise to his sister. Even when Cat decided she loved Ned, it certainly never extended towards Jon. And fine, she wasn't expected to love Jon but what kind of person continues to take out her anger on an innocent child? As much as I tried, while reading the books, I couldn't come up with any sympathy or compassion for Cat having to marry Ned and deal with him bringing home a child he claimed was his son. And even less so with Show-Cat. I agree that she would have sang like a canary if it meant protecting her own children or for various other reasons, and she just wasn't trustworthy with such a secret.

I think it's possible to enjoy this episode without deciding those who didn't must have been twittering or doing something else while not watching every facial expression to catch what supposedly made this episode more understandable. My issue is cramming so much into one episode that we get a brief glance at Stannis men looking disturbed the previous week. Or Stannis looking beaten down to the point that Brienne might or might not have killed him. Or Jon Snow's men stabbing him in such a way that made no sense to the story and so on. It's in the story telling and having so many different characters with only a brief set-up so that they can cram as much shit into one epic finale annoyed the hell out of me. I understand that there are only 10 episodes a season and it's a lot of book to cover but for Christ sakes, they couldn't have planned it out better? It just had the feel of being more about setting up as many cliffhangers as possible with shocking moments to leave the viewer wondering....did they jump to their deaths....is Stannis alive or dead....will Jon be brought back....did Cersei get some sympathy....has Arya gone completely mad.....did Mel come back to save Jon? Where was Ghost? Why did Dany drop her ring? Who will Jorah infect? What about Lancel and Margaery? What is LF doing? Was Doran involved? How can we create as much buzz as possible to keep fans coming up with endless theories to explain what is going on? How can we piss off book readers? How can we make non-book readers interested enough to come back next season? Aren't we clever?

The writers seem more interested in being clever and fucking with the viewer than telling the story of Fire and Ice in the most creative way. I love the magical abilities that GRRM gave to the certain characters that were worth rooting for but after 5 seasons, there has been little of that especially when it comes to warging. It made no frigging sense that Jon is treated like he's just bringing the Wildings over out of the goodness of his heart rather than the actual reason.....they can be turned into an army that could destroy everyone in their path. They have Jon mention it to Sam but doesn't bother having a conversation with the rest of the NW. The whole thing seemed odd even in the book but these writers managed to make it seem even more pointless. GRRM at least some hope for Jon while these writers didn't bother with that unless Mel magically appearing was supposed to do that. All it did is seem stupid that she got there so fast. Dorne was a total waste of time. Arya was completely insane in the brutal way she killed Trant. And Sansa and Theon would rather jump than face anymore of Ramsey. Ramsey is victorious with hundreds of soldiers that apparently came out of his ass. Brienne waits and waits until the moment just before Sansa puts the candle in the window. What a cluster fuck that was.

I just re-watched Lost again and it does makes more sense being able to watch it straight through without all the in-between season waiting. One of the complaints was Sayid ending up with Shannon but even that made more sense. He had a positive history with her and he didn't feel she was too good for him. With Nadia, it was completely different to the point that he pushed her towards his brother and she was not at all pleased with what he did to help his brother out of the mess he made. With Shannon, he was loved just as he was so it seemed right that he would choose her in the end.

There's been nothing to indicate she had such an illusion. Indeed, she'd already agreed to the marriage explicitly out of revenge. Fair enough. Once she agreed to the marriage, she would have had to let go of that fairy tale. However, it seems unlikely that revenge is the only motivator in agreeing to marry Ramsey unless she has that much faith in Littlefinger, Stannis, or her own ability to make it happen. It's a rather bold move for someone who has been extremely passive.

It’s been hard watching Sansa go from being so loved and protected that she could have the luxury of romantic illusions to being victimized over and over and over again. I want her to reach a place where she becomes clever and calculating and whatever else it takes for her to survive this. I want her to discover who she can trust and who she can work with so that she can escape and/or destroy Ramsey and Roose. I view the wedding night as the last illusion shattered. There’s no longer any chance of losing her virginity in a relationship where she is loved and treated with kindness. Her journey to becoming someone different than how she started out was never going to happen quickly. She has, however, survived the endless abuse and survived having her illusions shattered without becoming completely broken. I want her to change because it’s uncomfortable watching her continually being abused. It’s realistic that it would take time for her to become clever and calculating and to know who is trustworthy enough to work with her in escaping and/or in destroying Roose and Ramsey. It has to be a daunting task to reduce these books to 10 episodes per season while developing and changing specific characters to where they need to be for the final outcome. Everyone who will survive until the end has to go through an entire personality change. I can wish that a particular person would grow and change quicker or that the writers would choose another way for someone to become who they need to be…..but, I still know that whatever the experience, it’s all leading to the personality change that’s needed.

Scarlett does seem like an emotionally fragile person who doesn't have the skill set to deal with so many changes she wasn't prepared for. She's made it clear she isn't ready for this in one way or another but no one is taking it seriously. Whether she wanted fame or not, it doesn't mean she understood what kind of emotional toll it would take on her. I'm interested what her story is and how she came to have so few coping skills in dealing with major changes without a meltdown of one form or another.