Portia4844

The looks on the faces of Jon and Arya were heartbreaking.

Unless Bran is immune to anyone but the NK killing him, making him the King with a council is a strange way to go. It wouldn't suddenly make those on his council (now or in the future) so full of goodwill there would never be any disagreement with Bran's decisions.

It's going to be interesting to see if this is addressed before it's over. Maybe Bran will become more vocal on what he knows.

Then it's good she finally figured out why she brought him back from the dead. 🙂

No, not the NK. It was about ending the darkness which may have been represented in the form of the NK in the show. So you maybe be correct.

As a book reader Jon, Bran, Arya were the most interesting (to me) because of their bonds to their wolves, the Wall, the WWers and the magical aspects. Arya killing the NK while Jon was foreshadowed as the possible Prince that was Promised seem to end. And I'm not opposed to her being the one who killed him. Seeing spoilers and predictions that Jon kills Dany makes me wonder if Jon is still the Prince that was Promised but it's to stop her and prevent the last Targ with her particular powers (being able to birth them from eggs and so on) to retake the Throne. Why have seasons of build up about who the PTWP was and then just end it with Arya killing the NK? Would Martin have told D&D when it gets to the end all the foreshadowing that was such a part of the his book series doesn't matter? Just have Bran become the 3-eyed Raven and that's that? It's difficult to believe that this would be reduced to Cersei, getting her off the throne and then creating a Council.

Thanks for sharing! I agree. He did pretty much nail it.

I would enjoy Arya killing Jaime for what he did to Bran and the rest of her family but only after he watches her kill Cersei. I'm one of the few who has never liked Jaime or thought he was worth a redeeming arc.

That would certainly be a twist. It's hard to imagine this being how Martin chooses to go with Jon unless coming back from the dead has altered his personality to this degree. It would feel more of a D&D saying "Surprise!! Bet you didn't see that coming." Based on the Jon I've been shown so far, I thought telling Sansa and Arya had more to do with wanting them to know that Ned wasn't his father and that it was never about his actual father kidnapping and raping his mother. Whether he's viewed as boring to some, he seems much like Ned. Not the most exciting person around but one who is still honorable and decent. I'll be more surprised than most if Tyrion betrays Dany in some way that leads to his death or Dany becomes a crazy-eyed killer of the innocent, or Jon plots with or without his own knowledge to sit on the Throne or to protect Sansa from Dany down the road.

I thought Euron was on his ship. He will swim to shore and then Jaime kill him?

As annoyed as I am with D&D's writing, it's still hard to believe that they'd turn Dany into another version of Cersei who doesn't care how many innocent people get torched. Two crazy Queens destroying KL because they both want the Throne seems a bit much. To believe Dany has gone completely insane at this point would require me to think she can only make choices that aren't crazy if she has some wise man telling her not to do it. It would have to mean that she is no longer capable of caring who she destroys.

Rhaegal wouldn't have been in danger if only Dany had remembered the Iron Fleet and what Cersei and Euron were capable of. No amount of rest and healing would have made a difference since D&D have taken over Dany's brain and made her unable to see ships from the vantage point of being so in high the air and placed rocks/cliffs in her way.

The major characters who fought hard in the battle appeared to be in good shape with the ability to clean up the place, get the dead ready for burning, mourn, celebrate, eat, drink, have sex, and saddle up horses to begin the journey to KL. Sansa's concern about healing and resting was thoughtful while still being an attempt to undermine Dany and Jon going along with Dany to prove he's still on her side. What didn't take place was intelligent discussion on how to win the next battle against Cersei who had more time to plan and had no reservations of blowing up parts of KL to achieve her goals. There was Dany wanting to keep Sansa from undermining her, Jon unable to wait to tell Arya and Sansa the secret that has been kept since he was born, Sansa using it against Dany without thought to whether that could endanger Jon. Jon didn't do what Ned of capable of and Sansa's behavior was exactly why Ned kept the secret.

Haha! That would make me stand up and cheer!

Miserable sums it up for me as well. The writers have reduced these characters to the point that Sansa asking about feeding everyone or suggesting the armies need more time to rest to show she's smart and fit to lead. Dany not adjusting well to the culture of the North and being in a hurry take down Cersei as grounds for thinking she could be insane and therefore, is not fit to lead. Granted, there's more to why people think one way or another about either of them but it's still based on how D&D present them. They've taken a fantasy with dragons, magic, and characters who have fascinating character development and reduced them to saying whatever is needed to get this shitfest over with. They've turned what I loved into episodes of dimwitted decisions that make no sense while Cersei plans and smirks. They wanted to subvert my expectations. They succeeded.

Aren't bells used to declare that King/Queen are dead? Or rung to signal something of significance?

Since Bran is the keeper of history, it would seem wise to keep him protected and have someone documenting what he's able to tell them. Having him on the council simply because he's the 3-eyed Raven, knows history and therefore God-like seems like a fairytale ending. The previous 3-eyed Raven didn't seem to share much with anyone about actual history and therefore, and it resulted in fables being told to children. Yes, he needed to hide from the NK and now that he's been destroyed maybe Bran is safe from that but he's not immune to someone else killing him is he?

Tyrion did tell Dany that the clever person makes peace with their enemies so I'd love it if that's what he was attempting to do. He has always been one of the most interesting characters to me and I root for him to use all that he's learned to play the game in a winning way.

Jaime and Tyrion both discover Cersei lied and deceived them all about sending troops to fight the NK. But, they're both convinced she told the truth about being pregnant which then becomes the way Tyrion tries to get her to submit to Dany replacing her as Queen. Nothing about Cersei, regardless of how many children she had still living at any point, suggested she'd just go off to spend the rest of her life mothering in peace. Not only does Tyrion attempt to convince her to step down, he does it with himself, Dany, and a handful of troops standing within range of Cersei's army and weapons that could have killed all of them. The very weapons that took down one of the dragons but Dany and Tyrion stand there like she's not capable of destroying them and willing to just have a little chit-chat. Killing Missandei and dropping her body in front of him is what convinces him that she's not open to negotiating. All the ballistas surrounding her weren't a clue either. It's baffling why Tyrion thought he could reason with her and why she just let them all walk away when she had the ability to kill them and take out the last dragon with the same weapon used on the last one.

The show hasn't given any reason why Sansa wouldn't be qualified to be the Lady of Winterfell and have an important role in the North. There's been no hint that she aspires to sit on the Throne or claims that she'd be the most qualified to do so. Sansa didn't like Jon bending the knee to Dany. She has every right to have a problem with that but it doesn't make sense that she do anything to undermine Dany taking the Throne away from Cersei who would kill Sansa in a heartbeat. She hasn't liked many of the decisions Jon has made yet wants to undermine Dany so he can be on the Throne? Sansa told LF she's a slow learner but that she does learn. Great! I wanted her to learn. I wanted her to learn how to play the game in such a way that she has the best chance of continuing to be the Lady of Winterfell and learning to lead in the North. It would have been to her advantage to welcome Dany and to support her in such a way that she's in a position to learn and to get what she wants in the North. Why does she think that Dany on the Throne strips her of anything she is currently doing?

I've never thought the outcome would be who is the best leader to sit on the throne. It seemed it was about who will be the one to play the game that allows them to get or keep the throne. Dany has people counseling her that understand the game and understand the North and the culture of Westeros. People who also care about the powerless who are at the mercy of whoever is on the throne. Unfortunately, the writers decided to dumb down Dany, Tyrion, Varys, and Jon and turn Cersei into someone smarter than all of them. And to turn Sansa into a version of LF and Cersei without making her as evil/nasty, just passive aggressive and throwing out one-liners in an attempt to show us she's able to play the game. But in the end, she's still the girl who couldn't stop from running to a Lannister to tell Jon's secret just as she told on Ned because she thought it was useful information to get what she wanted. I have no problem with D&D condensing the books. I have a problem with the stupidity of their writing. Dany forgot about the Iron Fleet? Really? That's what they went with? Of course it is. She had no one her team that might not not forgotten? Of course she didn't because now they're all stupid as well. Apparently they became too distracted by Sansa spilling the beans and therefore had to spend their time discussing who is the better person to sit on the throne. Instead of anything clever, they stripped Dany down to becoming broken from grief and the inability of those surrounding her to come up with a plan where she didn't have to lose her dragons and the majority of her army. It isn't about whether Dany is the best one to sit on the throne. It's about who isn't surrounded by imbeciles and who can play the game better than anyone else.

When I watched the episode live, I was struck by the NK entering the Godswood. The wights stopped and parted for him to walk through. My thought was that he stopped all of them and made it about himself and Bran. I've rewatched numerous times and still get the same impression since they clearly stop, part to let him through, and then stand there with him while Theon attacks and while he walks towards Bran. I might be giving the writers too much credit and seeing something that wasn't intended but it was why Arya moving through without being attacked made sense at the time.

This is how it seems to me as well. It's much like being told Jamie didn't rape Cersei when it appeared she was resisting the entire time. Sansa's storyline, for me, has been confusing for quite some time based on what was shown and how D&D and Sophie described it. Pages of discussion on what she is thinking/feeling and speculating on her motivation or justification appears to reflect viewers trying to make sense of it all. I'd rather not have numerous episodes of conflict between Sansa and Jon as it comes off as contrived. We were shown Jon treating Sansa with love and respect when he found out that she didn't tell him about contacting LF and addressing the issue of trust and enemies. We were shown Jon giving her the opportunity to share what she wanted. I have no problem with the implication she has trust issues which led to not telling him about LF or about her desire for a specific position in the North/Winterfell. However, I'm not sure how that (and other situations) shows Jon as not caring or listening or Jon disregarding her right/desire to be the Queen of the North or whatever it is she wants.

If Sansa had a choice then it seems it might have been a discussions before heading out on their journey. Instead, they stop and he shows her enough to know where they're headed and then a few minutes of dialogue to convince her that she'll get revenge. Did she just hop on a horse to go with LF without once asking him where they were going? It's frustrating to have the actors and writers claim she had a choice and how strong Sansa has become when that isn't what is shown. Maybe an additional season will give the writers time to actually show what they claim is going on.

I believe Sansa did mention the baby to Ramsey when he boasts about being Warden of the North. As far as her escape from King's Landing I could be confusing the book with the show. LittleFinger tells her that Stannis winning would mean he needs a Stark in Winterfell. It seemed to me that Sansa found that more appealing than the Boltons being in Winterfell so it didn't seem that she was indifferent to who would win. Had it been Stannis riding through the gates instead of Ramsey, I doubt she would have felt the need to jump over the wall to escape him. It could be subjective since I've never viewed Jon, Bran, or Arya as treading the same water. I've enjoyed their journey in both the books and show much more than Sansa where it seems it's abuse, rescue, abuse, rescue and ends in preferring death over more abuse.