CeeBeeGee

Cut to the dragons looking disgusted and covering their ears. "Maaaa! Gross!" Speaking of which--are the dragons all boys? How will we perpetuate the species without a sister? Unless we fill in the gaps with frog DNA... Where is my Nymeria?!?!

Since Jorah is a future Stone man, would that be considered...rock-blocking? I'll show myself out now.

Yeah..."sulking"? Huh? I didn't get that at all. Anyone would've been subdued after escaping from what went down at Hardhome. I tend to doubt that Hizdahr and Dany had actually ties the knot--surely the show would've shown us that?

Doreah betrayed Dany, why would she not punish her? Stannis, Renly and Joffrey also made imperious speeches about being the rightful rulers. That goes with the territory. She's not campaigning for President, she's claiming the Iron Throne--part of getting the throne when you're not on it is convincing others to support you.

Also Dany hasn't been trained in how to kill anyone. If she'd been the one to wield the sword on the guy who killed the Harpy son a few episodes back, she would've had to hack away at him which would've been torture for the condemned. Read about how Henry VIII's execution of his cousin, the Countess of Salisbury went for a real life example. (No, Henry didn't wield the sword but he used an inexperienced axeman and an old lady was literally hacked to death on the block. The same thing happened to Thomas Cromwell.) It's great that Jon can take the personal responsibility to carry out his own orders but that's not always possible or feasible.

Preach. It. I think Emilia is fantastic as Dany--she's the only cast member besides Dinklage who's been nominated for an Emmy, IIRC (of course they are all fantastic, I have NO idea why Michelle Fairley didn't get a nom for The Rains of Castamere)--and yes, she's making mistakes in good faith, not just blundering around or acting almost criminally stupidly a la Cersei. And oh my Lord is Missandei gorgeous! I'll have to rewatch to see Tyrion check her out.

Okay, I get that Stannis is the new Agamemnon, who sacrificed his daughter Iphigenia to get fair winds to send his ships to Troy. But really, would a whole battalion of men also have drunk the Kool-Aid and just stand around while a child is being incinerated and is screaming like that? That is impossible for me to believe. Someone upthread mentioned Nazi-era Germans but most of those Germans didn't actually SEE it. Actually watching a child burn to death--I just don't buy that those men, many of whom presumably have families of their own, would do nothing. Similarly impossible is that these pampered slave owners, the wealthy elite of this city who had slaves to attend to their every need, are also badass street fighters and arena fighters who can take on the UNSULLIED, for God's sake. Maybe in close quarters but come the fuck on! The whole Sons of the Harpies storyline is beggaring belief. I like the Dorne storyline. If nothing else everyone is pretty and relatively unscathed. I could never, ever root for the Boltons. They are just as awful--Ramsay skins men alive for the fun of it. He skinned an old lady, for God's sake. Both sides are awful--rooting for Brienne to take out Stannis and Drogon/Dany to give Melisandre a taste of her own medicine.

Cersei has been the Dowager Queen ever since Robert died. I can't remember if the show is using the style "Queen Mother" but that's a new invention--the late Queen Mum (the current Queen Elizabeth's mother) came up with it after her husband George VI died so young.

Charlie targeted the lonely, the sad, the abused. Susan Atkins lost her other at a young age and her father really couldn't take care of his family. And Squeaky Fromme came from a really ****ed up environment--very middle class (if not upper middle class) but I remember reading that her father punished her in HS by not talking to her for AN ENTIRE YEAR. How awful is that?! I am in no way trying to excuse Susan and Squeaky's eventual actions but it's no wonder they responded to someone who appeared to give them unconditional love. Very fast indeed. The great migration to San Francisco started that winter/early spring and truly exploded when Scott McKenzie's hit "San Francisco (Be Sure toWear Flowers in Your Hair)" dropped in May of '67. Within weeks the Haight was overwhelmed by the influx and things started going wrong. That fall Haight denizens staged a "funeral" to send the message "stay away, the scene is played out" and in New York City the "Groovie Murders" (really awful and sad) were a similar button to the scene. The female victim in the Groovy murders was a wealthy kid from Greenwich who ran away and was trying to live the counterculture. The movement was so lovely in theory but so many losers and freaks tagged along and ruined it. (Like, well, Charlie, who was in SF during the Summer of Love, recruiting.) As it happens several of the Manson girls were named just that. (Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel--nicknamed Katie--Cathy Gillies...also a Linda (very common name), a leslie, a Sandra....yes, the name Emma seemed a bit out of place to me as well!)

Helter Skelter haunted my childhood. I made the mistake around age 8 of peeking through my Mom's copy and the pictures absolutely messed me up, even with the bodies whited out. For years I was literally convinced every night that Charles Manson was outside the window--every time the leaves moved I saw the shadows on the wall and was terrified. After a few years I finally started to grow out of it and then my Mom made the mistake of taking me to see the original Amityville Horror, which just started it up again except that now I was terrified of boathouses and sewing rooms and flies. The premiere was interesting but everyone seemed way too clean. Emma wouldn't have looked quite so radiant after a few weeks with the Family. (That actress is stunning though.)

To both of you--I was shaking my head at that bigtime. Sansa's self-preservation instincts have been on full display since the beginning of Season 2 when she mouthed to Tyrion about Joffrey being her beloved etc. No WAY does she do something as stupid as walk down a darkened hallway surrounded by barely-contained barking angry dogs. Come on. That scene took me out of the moment. Sansa would simply not act that stupidly. Oh my Lord, please no. That was honestly one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen on TV.

Literally RIGHT before Stannis said that line I absently muttered "fewer." Okay, I can like Stannis now.

Unless kids have lines and have to, you know, act, it's easier to cast a placid, quiet child in movies and TV shows.

Yay for happy Edith! So nice to see her holding her baby and glowing. David (the POW) doesn't become King until 1936. Still he was fairly popular as the POW and I imagine he might've been able to squash the investigation of a man who preyed on as many women as Greene did. I love it when Thomas shows grace notes like that (also loved how his friendship with Jimmy developed). But yeah, he needs to stop leering at fresh downstairs meat because his gaydar is way off. After this episode, I'm wondering if Guiliano Mignini started his career at Scotland Yard. What a joke of an investigation. And if those other women in the lineup really were also victims of Greene, that is appalling. Poor Anna, what a nightmare.

If only!!!! God, I'd LOVE to see that! WHY MUST YOU MAKE ME SOB LIKE THAT In Harry Potter, there's Pansy, Rose, Lily and Petunia...

Nah, I love him too. I love his loyalty to the Crawleys, love his devotion to Anna, I just like him. Anna's great too.

I agree! I loved that first season, so many great, well-written characters (LOVED the ending of the first episode) and just the right amount of melodrama (Cora slipping on the soap). Season 2 was such a letdown, what with four years squeezed into one season, Tiny Tim becoming paralyzed and then regaining his legs, and everyone acting ridiculously out of character.

That's not Edith's problem, or Marigold's. (Actually we don't know what Mrs. Drewe was told but my point still stands.) That goes back to the Drewe's communication gap. Edith was to be allowed access to the child and when she was cut off she stood on her legal rights, and Mr. Drewe should've anticipated that. But in the end, what happened was that Marigold was reunited with her mother--which was in her best interests and which should be the overriding factor. Not sure Mrs. Drewer running to Cora to blab was in her best interest but I'll let that slide. Anyway, I've said my piece on this so...

Nothing was wrong. Edith hadn't even left the grounds. Mrs. Drewe overreacted, imagining a problem that didn't exist. I knew someone would respond with "well, she was right, wasn't she?" Edith came back and took her child because Mrs. Drewe CUT OFF Marigold from her, which was against the original agreement. Again, overreaction to a problem that didn't exist. Mr. Drewe should've explained everything to his wife at that point--his telling Edith to stay away was frankly cruel. Oh well, the situation now is not the best--which would be Gregson and Edith married, raising their child together or failing that, Edith raising her openly acknowledged daughter at the Abbey or in London--but it's better than what it was.

Zoloft, I I had intended to respond to your question about Matthew not receiving any of the subsidiary titles--namely, because he was the heir presumptive, not the heir apparent--and by the time I'd gotten through the thread, a bunch of other posters had responded so I tried to delete it. Unsuccessfully!

She did, last episode, when she tried to leave during Mary's flaunting of her haircut. Mary made some snippy comment and Edith took her up. I don't think anything Edith says or does will change Mary's behavior--I keep thinking of Edith reaching out in the aftermath of Sybil's death, saying "can't we be more like loving sisters?" and Mary essentially rejecting that. It just seemed so obnoxious--if you can't cherish family bonds when you've lost your sister, there's something lacking in you. I actually really do like Mary but not when she acts that way. I adore Cora--I loved Elizabeth McGovern ever since Ordinary People, I think she's a terrific actress who is given NOTHING to do in this series. I always love it when she finally gets scenes with some grit in them--getting rid of Pamuk's body, her treatment of Robert in the aftermath of Sybil's death, she always does them justice. I want to give Mrs. Drewe the benefit of the doubt but I cringed when she flipped out a few episodes ago, running around the farm, convinced Edith had carried off Marigold. Just ridiculous. Well, regardless of her motives telling Cora (and yes, the Drewes do owe the Crawleys although I imagine this cancels the debt), the end result is that Marigold is ensconced at the Abbey as she should be, with her family. Edited to add: I sobbed out loud at Cora and Robert putting Isis between them on this last night. So, so sweet. How loving, and a sweet way to send off such a good dog. It's so hard to say goodbye.

You bring up a lot of excellent points--and most of them address the class issue (also a great discussion worth having). I was addressing a gender issue--the point I was making was that the poster was extremely harsh on Edith for having "selfish" sex and didn't bother to mention the other half of the equation--Gregson. I made that point because I believe a lot of the over-the-top vitriol toward Edith for not being the Perfect Mother (notwithstanding her obvious, awkward, badly-handled-but-enormous love for Marigold) is, frankly, misogynistic. Which isn't surprising. Even today we as a society are ridiculously hard on mothers. Fathers? We let them off the hook--much as the poster let Gregson off the hook. Peruse the Mad Men fora for more examples--Betty is the Worst Mother Ever whereas Don--who abandoned his entire family for three weeks in California, who blew off his daughter's 6th b-day party so he could stare at a train--is The Man. I could go on but whenever I encounter over-the-top vitriol toward a mother figure in fandom (or IRL) I roll my eyes. We're all way, way too hard on mothers. They're pretty much all trying to do the best they can. Both Edith and Mrs. Drewe are in difficult situations here, and they both love little Marigold.

Yes, exactly, Edith abandoned little Marigold by the road just as soon as she was born and went on merrily dancing through her bon-bon strewn life. You nailed it! A monster, she is ;) Bye, Mrs. Drewe! Thanks for the teddy bear!

Tell any mother "hey, you had your shot, too bad so sad" and see how that goes over, with either the mother or the child. Again, anyone who thinks that a mother could stay away from her child, the child she did not want to give up, the child she went out of her way to place in the adjacent village, is naive. This is just common sense--of course Edith would be unable to stay away. And by "And Mrs. Drewe knew it," I mean that in the end she recognized that Edith's "claim" was greater and gave in gracefully. Edith gave birth to Marigold, carried her for nine months, breastfed her, did all sorts of crazy things to be with her. If she made mistakes, she's learning.

And Edith is the one who couldn't bear to have an abortion, notwithstanding the danger to her name and that of her family. Edith is the one who breastfed her child for however many months. And Edith is the one who keeps making mistakes but all in the interest of a mother maintaining a relationship with her daughter. All parents make mistakes. Sorry, not seeing the demonization of Edith. I don't see the demonization of any of these characters--maddeningly inconsistently as they are written, it's clear pretty much all of them are flawed and nuanced. (Except for Greene, who was a monster.) Mary can be horrible to Edith and I hate that, but she's so kind and compassionate with Tom. Robert is an oblivious privileged dolt often, but he always steps up for his servants. Even Thomas can have grace notes of decency. They're all great. Edith is making mistakes but they're out of a mother's love. Edith is the mother. And Mrs. Drewe knew it in the end. She is a foster mother who obviously loved Marigold and I feel bad for her but she does have other children. This is likely Edith's only chance. And she's going to do just fine, drunken champagne binges all the same! (What next, butterbeer??)