HalcyonDays

I had to read the little information the Internet has on the Culper Ring, to get an idea of who the characters are, so it was easier for me. But the show never introduced the characters well, in terms of including it in dialogue. The last episode did, with Rogers, but I found a lot of times, it took a while before I got who was who (save Abraham and Tallmadge).

Really? The cap is accurate. Good to know. It's actually a cool cap. I think the problem is that we see so many young guys wearing those caps today, so I automatically equate it with a modern item of clothing. Ha! True. Sleepy Hollow would/is be the more insane show. I totally agree about Tallmadge vs. Crane. Tallmadge's does look more authentic than Crane's does. For a time that was all about status and showing that status, Crane should have more embellishments as such to show he's a Captain, nobility, etc. Abraham is the only character on TURN whose clothing throws me off. The rest are fine. With Abraham, I see a modern day cap, a trendy modern day leather jacket and like I said for the last episode, suede cowboy boots. Maybe it's deliberate so that he as the main character stands out from the rest?

Well, from what I understand, in the real Revolutionary war, the units of black or otherwise ethnic units were mostly segregated, so technically the casting is done correctly. Both sides segregated units also. I am sure there was "mixing" but probably no where near as prevelant as maybe we think. I think I read somewhere that Washington had in total 1000 blacks fight for him, over the entire War. That number is probably wrong, but if not, that's not very many if you look at the overall number of soldiers. My point being that I don't think the casting people are deliberately doing this as a modern day slight. I think they are sticking to what history has written about. However, I would bet money that the show will "go there" and have a storyline/episode that talks about this. I will comment that I think the casting people are amazing - the people they cast in the minor or secondary roles in season 1 were/are just perfect.

War and Redemption are the themes for season two. I too love John Cho and would love to see him redeem himself and resume his humanity and fight the good fight. I'm gonna doubt Abbie will want a relationship with Andy. First, he creeps her out a bit (now), and second, she told Ichabod to "take his head" during the Horseman interrogation scene. I don't think she'll suddenly change her tune, especially since she would have HUGE trust issues with Andy. I would like to see him redeemed. No information on if he's to return, I notice. John Cho also is starring in his own TV show. Enslaved Africans fought for both sides. The British offered freedom to any Africans who would fight for their cause (many did) but reneged at the very end or the war. Go figure. Washington initially allowed Africans in some of his units and got major backlash from slave-owners so he eventually said no, but some units were comprised of former slaves, etc. I wonder if they will address this on the show - that would be very interesting actually. Crane is portrayed as so modern and enlightened, yet his own Patriots were the ones who were far more accepting of slavery. There is a certain cultural mentality, since Britain (and Canada - a British colony - much earlier) banned slavery by the early 1800's, yet the US had to go through a Civil War and still had segregation in the 1950s. Blanket statement, somewhat, since many other factors were in play, but still.... it would be very interesting in terms of storyline.

But apparently George Lee hated him. Both in the episode and in real life. And technically the British would hated him also...But yes, he inspired very loyal and devoted men. How many leaders todays do we have that similarily inspire us?

The best lighthearted moment for me with Q, is when he gets his powers back and a Mariachi band appeared on the Enterprise Bridge. "I'm Back!!" Hilarious, to be quite honest. But DS9 didn't that. In fact, I think DS9 have some much better humourous moments in the show, that actually were more organic, more naturally funny than TNG. There is one in particular coming up in season one that I love. Okay, Q wanted to procreate with Janeway. That's just...yeah. Jump The Shark for Q.

I saw a tweet from the head costume designer (I think she's the head) for Sleepy Hollow and she mentioned that some of the Sleepy Hollow costumers are also working on TURN. The costumes on Sleepy Hollow, I've never thought "out of place", but Abe's cap and coat throws me off big time. The coat and cap looks too modern. And the last episode - Epiphany - I had to pause to look at Abe's boots. They looked out of place too. They looked exactly like brown suede cowboy boots. You see them when he's walking up the steps in his dad's home, to steal the papers.

Q was a heavy handed plot device but also provided some light stories and humour. But yeah, on DS9, they didn't need Q to pontificate or bring his brand of justice or moral lessons to the crew of DS9. They had enough serious and dark things to deal with. I always liked the character, but he was so out of place on DS9. Like, Q was NOT evil or immoral enough for the station and the story lines - he was too much of a good guy, if that makes sense. The punch out scene was the showrunners showing how "different" of a Captain Sisko was, but also clearly showed out out of place Q was. The first speed bump yes, but the speed bump to me was important for the show to experience. I think it taught the showrunners this lessson - don't try to mimic/be like The Next Generation. Be yourself. And you will excel.

I was thinking the same think too, Thalia. Like, we are supposed to root for Alewife (Anna) and yet here she is "pleading" with Hewett to not free the slaves, because they cannot take care of themselves and need to be taken care of. Okay....then camera cuts to the slaves, and they are all cheering about finding out about their freedom. So no, Anna, I think they can - and will - take care of themselves and are quite happy to be freed. They don't need your "help." Next they show Anna saying she cannot help Abigail, and she has to go off to serve John Andre - okay, by that point I thought she didn't want to help, even though she's crying like she can't help. Didn't quite get that. So no, not happy about that. Are we supposed to root for her. I no longer am. It seemed pretty callous, I guess. I understand losing your tavern and house and posessions will make you upset, but the whole scenario didn't sit right. Not sure what to make of it. I laughed - morbidly - that the slaves were given freedom, but them Abigail is still forced to go to John Andre and the men have to serve the British before getting their freedom. Very similar to what happened in real life. Promises made but never fulfilled. At the very end, I thought that Abigail genuinely offered to help spy for Anna and the others, but now Sarah Bunting in her review says that Abigail was threatened to reveal about the spies, unless her kid was taken care of. I missed the blackmail part - again, very confused. Ah, Anna and Abe getting it on and blocked by the Redcoat - someone called it earlier - Missus Abe (Mary) just might be getting some from tall blond and handsome British Redcoat living at their house. The episode did entertain me and the previews for next week look really good. Still want to watch, but still confused.

Finally!! And I'm calling it now... Editing my own post since I don't want to double-post. Fox "chief" Kevin Reilly talks about TV - Point # 4 mentions Sleepy Hollow - specifically how many episodes they may do this year and also the expected airing schedule. Not surprising what he says - the show was filming scenes a bit more than ONE WEEK before airing the actual episode in December, that's how close they were cutting it. I'm very happy about what he says.

I was thinking more like "You know, British Military - if you really want the town on your side, tearing up headstones is probably not the way to go about it." But the final line about the mind game - I loved that. Awesome.

That's the one thing about Abe that hasn't really been confirmed. I did initially think that he told his wife Mary, just so that she would blab. But the scene, when she's trying to get some intimacy from him, it seemed like he told her just as a salve for rejecting her. It came off sincere, him telling her, but I did think that it was also a plan. Unfortunately, its not easy to discern when Abe's manipulating the situation or actually truly feels this way. His conversation with his father at the end too - he seemed genuinely like he wanted help his father make the right decision and appease the town. Of course, Senior screws that up, but there is a lot of sincerity. I don't see the times when Abe is manipulating things for the spy ring/his own reasons.

The dialogue for me was much easier to understand. Only one or two words I was like, "What?" They have much improved the pronunciations. The show needs to introduce people more in their dialogue. It doesn't have to be a straight up "This is blah blah", but just a full name reference. Took me a long time to figure out the guy caught by John Andre is supposed to be General Charles Lee and it was only this episode that I knew the other guy is John Andre. And for the life of me, I couldn't remember Hewitt's name. These are the characters I now figured out: Abraham Woodhull, Richard Woodhull (father), Anna Strong, Mary Woodhull (Abe's wife), Benjamin Tallmadge (Bluecoat cutie doing some spying and defying of orders), Caleb Brewster (Bearded Irish spy), General Hewitt (crazy/not so crazy Redcoat running Setauket), John Andre (Redcoat using actress for his own means), Charles Lee (Bluecoat held by John Andre). That's all I got so far. Kinda feel sorry for Mary - is she ever the neglected wife, but was kinda skeeved out by her being all "let's have a baby" to Abe, after the whole brother Thomas conversation. Kinda creepy. Feel bad for her but the moment Abe told her about the tombstones, I knew she would blab. At least he knows now not to tell her anything, unless he wants it to not remain a secret. I did like how Hewitt (Captain?, not sure) did play the town nicely. We do think he is crazy, but not really. He's just messing with everyone. Sad that Woodhull senior doesn't see that he himself is being manipulated also. Senior wants the power and the money from business with the Redcoats, but for some reason vacillates between self-serving to protecting the town. Hmm.... I am confused about Abe and his father's relationship. I expect by this point that Abe would just say "forget it" about trying to stay close to his father but he doesn't. Every week he's trying to get back in his father's good graces and I'm waiting for him to finally say "That's it, I'm done, I'm spying now", but nothing. Maybe the gravestones are finally going to put him over the edge. And no Captain Simcoe....too bad.....

I really like Babel as well. Bashir gets to be useful, and not a goofball and we get the first hints of his obviously excellence at being a doctor. Chief O'Brien - always amazing. He truly is the everyman, since he's like the only main character in any Star Trek I think, who is an "enlisted man". It's not a career, it's a job, I guess. But he loves his job! Loved, LOVED Kira flying the runabout to get unhelpful Bajoran Doctor and just beaming him to the ship against his wishes. A Star Fleet officer probably wouldn't do that type of "Well too bad, but I'm going to do things MY WAY!". That's why I love Kira. She has no time for anyone's bullshit - she gets things done. Maybe I should change her thread title to that. This is one of the season one's that I can rewatch and quite enjoy.

I liked this Odo episode too. I also always thought that's one of the reasons why Odo is so restrained from people. Just like in real life, people mob against what they don't understand, so here Odo gets the mob treatment from people who don't understand the shapeshifter. Liked Bashir in this too, helping solve the mystery. And some good interactions between Odo and Kira. They also had a very good rapport and play off each other well and also protected/were loyal to each other. Jake and Nog are okay. I always got a kick out of the fact that the actor who plays Nog (Aron Eisenberg) was in his late twenties, but worked so well with a young teenaged Cirroc Lofton (Jake). Apparently even Lofton didn't know Eisenberg was somewhat older for the longest time. And why yes, I am full of useless DS9 trivia! :')

Oh I definitely noticed that about Garak. He definitely was flirting with Bashir but I always thought it was just a way for Garak to get under Bashir's skin a little, see how he could rattle the good doctor but hey, you never know. Andrew Robinson is a master with how he portrayed Garak. There are certain actors out there who just embody a character, make it their own and no one else could ever compare. He is one of them. I never read "A Stitch in Time" but did read that is was a very exceptional DS9 (or ever Star Trek) novel and thought it awesome that Robinson wrote it - good for him! I should pick it up. I agree about the self-restraint. DS9 was very good with getting subtle performances out of their actors, and they were done beautifully. I wonder though if our so-called subtleness is more because it's only the third episode. A little Cardassian (or Klingon - even Worf) or other aliens can go a long way, and it would be easy to alienate (ha!) the viewer with non-Federation characters. But the show realized quickly how amazing Robinson is and went with it. The Kohn-Ma guy being the worst kind of idealist - totally agree. But what a reflection on our own society - so many willing to "fight" for their causes, until it directly affects them. Go figure. Not a bad episode, but not one of my favourites to rewatch.

John Potts - Holy Cow, did you just include the name of Phil Farrand, of the Nitpickers Guide to Star Trek! That's amazing. I read those when I was much younger, specifically the Next Generation ones! Loved them, he was so precise and were awesome reads. I was praying for DS9 guides, but never saw them for sale! They probably didn't change much for Kira's character, since it was supposed to be Ro, but there are lots of amazing Kira in this. They needed to sort out the character. I agree about decking Bashir - I liked his character a lot actually - later on. That scene had me cringing badly.

Yeah she does have lots of trust issues. We saw it early on with her interactions with Jenny, Luke and even with Corbin. She wouldn't open up to anyone except - Ichabod. And I find that really interesting and wonder if they will ever explain it (besides plot). Ichabod is the only one she has ever been completely honest with, which is such a sharp contrast to everyone else. I can explain it with one word - Plot. If Katrina was forthright and revealed information that we wanted her to, half of the season wouldn't exist. You wouldn't have the whole episode where Ichabod Interrogates the Horseman. You wouldn't have the Golem episode at all. Not the Sin Eater episode (and technically Ichabod would probably be dead then), and the final two episodes either, since Abbie and Ichabod would know that a soul-swap had to take place, and they'd figure out a way around it before entering Purgatory. So even though Katrina's behaviour is quite suspect and shady, it's all for plot purposes. Which disappoints me, because I was so hoping for more....The information is being withheld but it's more due to plot and the writers than the character. But I would still like the show to go there anyway and address this I hope.

The CGI was terrible and for me too, it took me out of the scene. It was so obviously. What also bothered me was Caleb throwing the rowers over the edge of the boat when he was still visible to the Redcoats at the dock. Why didn't he wait a bit more, they row out a bit, then boom, ambush the two men. From what I can see, Abe's father is on the side of the British. He's doing business with them and cozying up to the higher up's. We don't know if he's 100% loyal to the Crown. I get the impression he's loyal to the British only because its aids his business dealings and keeps him wealthy and with power friends. Regarding Simcoe, I agree about the creeper scenes, but then all of a sudden, he became Snark-Central and its funny. Makes a scene. I think soon though, we are going to see scenes of Simcoe being a evil bastard once he's free. I like his character though and Ben Tallmadge also. They both seem a bit more complex. Trivia: Some of the people who've done costuming for Sleepy Hollow (the flashbacks to the 1770s) are doing the costuming for Turn.

Ha! So true and this is honestly what she did everytime there was a scene with Katrina warning Ichabod. How many times were the words "There's no more time!" spoken by Katrina and how many times did we see Ichabod question his wife, and she just looks teary-eyed and weepy and looks down to the floor unwilling to answer. Everytime. Hell, even when Ichabod actually went into Purgatory (with Henry's help), he pointedly said to wife "What are you not telling me." So yeah, he will confront her and she will have to answer and there is no mist or imminent threat to interrupt them. Finally. I'm looking forward to these flashbacks, actually, because then we (and Crane) will get an understanding of why him (and Abbie). Which leads to this tiny spoiler from eonline. TVGuide has a small blurb about why the relationship (platonic) between Ichabod and Abbie is the best and why many of us invested in Ichabbie (platonic or not) have nothing to worry about. Season MVPs

Cool - interesting information /spoiler for season 2. Possibly Irving's temporary replacement? From link: E online spoilers

Far Beyond the Stars is one of the best Trek episodes hands down (for me). It could have easily de-evolved into a schticky hour, what with the main characters playing other people, and some without their character makeup, but the story was very well done and the actors are awesome. From what I understand, Avery Brooks was very vocal on having race/racial social issues portrayed in the Star Trek universe and encouraged these type of stories. Did love Q as a character on Next Gen, but LOVED that Sisko had no time for Q's crap. Loved that. He had more pressing issues to deal with, ultimately! **PUNCH** "You hit me? Picard never hit me." "I'm not Picard."

Thank you for that recap, Sarah D. Bunting, because you answered one question I had. Why on earth did Caleb tell Anna and Abe that Capt. Simcoe was dead? I have to rewatch his scenes because I was like "Wait, Caleb was with Ben and a very much alive Simcoe (who was snarking away in that cart). It made no sense at the time. Still makes little sense, only because to think Abe should have some brains to know that things happen (can go wrong) and maybe someone could get away. Also those four brothers who were angry Caleb left and immediately are like 'mutiny', maybe it's better off they are gone - sheesh, one whiff of something off and they go running to the hills, so to speak. Thought Mary alone in the house with semi-shirtless (yet cute) Redcoat was strange - was expecting something to happen and though, isn't this inapproriate for the times?? Mary then telling Anna she can go ahead and have affair with Abe, just be discreet? Okay... Will say feel a bit sorry for Mary - obviously Abe loves his kid, but she is neglected by him, which is sad. The biggest hmmm...Daddy Woodhull making some crack about some barmaids cleavage. Totally took me out of the moment, it just did not fit at all. Like people talking Shakespearian English, then throwing in a sentence with heavy modern slang. Out of place. I get that they have to set up more of the reasoning as to why Abe and co. need to spy. I mean, yes, the British are bastards, but one is risking death spying against them, so there needs to be good reason to risk ones life. Abe is not military and obviously cares only about his kid, so is taking a big risk doing what he's doing. Still find some of the story hard to follow, and they never seem to introduce characters by name, so I have a hard time knowing who is who. At least the dialogue is easier to understand. Oh, and for a villian - Simcoe is the best!

Actually, that's one thing I didn't get. WHY did Abe have to smuggle the cabbages to the island? Unless the crop he is growing doesn't belong to him and he's just contracted to grow it for the British or something? Can anyone clarify?

If there is any marriage or babies happening besides the one we have now, then it will be the Jump the Shark moment for the show, IMO. The show is about Abbie and Ichabod being the two Witnesses who have to save humanity from the coming Apocalypse. Abbie being nine months pregnant running around the forests heaving her belly along is going to be a bit of a problem. I don't want to see any of that. No weddings, no marriages, no more babies, etc. That's why there is birth control! Abbie can have her kid (if she wants them - you're assuming she does) after the show ends. If Katrina is smart in the modern time, she'll hit Abbie up for birth control advice ASAP. This includes when/if Abbie and Ichabod get together. I honestly do not want to see any weddings, babies, or any of the sort between these two. Honestly. Strange that I am an Ichabbier but don't want this. OT, but I used to watch Castle all of the time, and now with the wedding thing going on, and some recent episode with them cooing over a baby - Yuk. Completely turnoff to me. The show lost what made the two mains so awesome because of the typical focus on "Everyone must have Marriage and Baby." Why can't they just be together and enjoy each other? Have a nice proposal, commitment to each other and that sappy marriage/baby stuff can be fanfic'ed by someone after the show ends. This makes no sense. Nicole and Lyndie are "natural" sisters, but they did a chemistry test also. I think is has to do more with Nicole/Abbie being the main and those around her need to mesh well with her and everything revolves around Abbie (and Ichabod) anyway. As CinnamonCW stated above, I can see why Katia was excluded if the ultimate goal is a season 2 kill off. (I dare hope?). Also, from what I understand, or more accurately haven't heard, Orlando Jones did not do any chemistry tests with anyone also, so there you are. I'll just bring up the second last episode where Abbie finds out Ichabod redrew the map, he says "Admit it, you appreciate me a little." and she gives a coy little smile and flirtatiously snarks "microscopically." Love that!