Tikichick
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Posts posted by Tikichick
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I think it's possible to look at circumstances surrounding other people and have an idea or understanding why they may have said something or done something without being their fan or even liking them or much or anything they stand for. I think that frequently gets lost here and elsewhere online.
It's possible to think that Jill and Derrick aren't wrong to break with JB and have made a good choice to send their son to public school without thinking you'd really love to be their BFF. It's possible to think it's highly likely Jana is taking the fall to keep Anna's kids from being removed from Anna's custody without thinking Jana is heroic, put upon, drunk on the Kool Aid, trapped under JB's control or the most fundie of them all.
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To the point of Derrick initially participating in the show and now possibly equating that and other control by JB akin to human trafficking I think it should be considered that Derrick's initial approach to the family was to have a relationship with JB, as a prayer partner and spiritual mentor. He probably accepted the explanation of the show being about ministry for quite a period of time before any niggling doubts wouldn't be quiet anymore. No doubt months of being in JB's immediate presence and the explosive revelations of Josh's abuse of his sisters and JB's failure to address it appropriately probably really triggered alarms until Derrick couldn't quiet them all anymore and probably began asking questions.
No doubt JB followed Michelle's example and spoke very sweetly when he patiently and truthfully answered all of Derrick's questions.
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13 hours ago, thehorseofpower said:
I don't buy that Jana is just "covering" for Anna or a younger child left in charge and is selflessly taking the blame for this situation. Why would she accept legal consequences and all of this public embarrassment if she had nothing to do with what happened? The Duggars sure as heck aren't known for their selflessness and empathy, so her falling on the proverbial sword for Anna seems completely out of character for a Duggar. Also, if an 11-year-old was in charge while Jana slept and the younger child escaped under that arrangement, I would still fault Jana. The 11-year-old is a minor child herself and is ultimately not the responsible party for multiple other tiny children when there is also a 30+ year old adult in the house.
IMO the fact she denied involvement and then admitted involvement, the fact none of her minor Duggar siblings were at home at the time, along with the fact the warehouse property where Anna resides with her brood being closer to adjacent roads makes me think it is highly likely Jana is covering for Anna. It wouldn't be about covering for a younger child left in charge, because in that case it definitely would roll uphill to the parent, Anna, under failure to provide proper care and supervision provisions. I don't think there's any doubt CPS would have substantiated charges against Anna given the totality of the circumstances at that time. That is more than adequate reason for Jana to fall on her sword. She has no children herself, so it wouldn't allow them to make a move to remove them from her custody. It certainly couldn't have been one of the adult brothers considering the toxic Josh cloud that hangs over them. Jana was the last one standing and the last line of defense, plain and simple.
Jana being an adult relative with a long history of caring for children with no record of serious harm doesn't leave an opportunity for authorities to cite Anna for leaving children improperly supervised. Jana having a clean record means it's unlikely she faces any serious repercussions. I think the sting might have come in the tail when the local district attorney elected to charge her under their discretionary powers.
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1 hour ago, laurakaye said:
If Jana does have to take a babysitting class as part of her probation, perhaps she'll take a good look around the class and realize that she's the only 30-year old amongst a bunch of 12 and 13 year old girls and start to get a clue.
If that is a term of her probationary sentence it will actually be a child development class that's most likely going to be filled with parents whose children have been removed from their custody and/or parents who are under a PS safety plan in an effort to keep the children in the home while the parents make efforts to correct all identified areas of risk to the children.
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2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:
I wanna communicate in words that Derick is accustomed to...
I bet he's not familiar with it being delivered with such panache!
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Just now, monkeypox said:
Is Derick comparing how the J'kids were treated on 19 Kids and Counting to human trafficking?
That's my takeaway.
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A Children's Protective Services case and investigation and a law enforcement investigation are two different matters -- even though they may arise out of the same set of circumstances and the evidence and conclusions of each may be referenced in the other. Even when PS substantiates a case and files a petition before family court for removal of children from a home most of the time there is no corresponding criminal proceeding against the parents related to abuse or neglect allegations.
Given the insular nature and history the family has with privately and inadequately addressing matters pertaining to the wellbeing of minors it's likely CPS will be watching like a hawk and not hesitate to come in and assess the environment regarding the children whenever they have an opportunity. It appears they found nothing to substantiate in regards to this incident and closed their investigation. Evidently the district attorney or prosecutor in the area felt there was reason to file charges and that is what Jana is likely going to address in court next month.
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20 hours ago, merylinkid said:
Or she is just fine and believe as her parents' do of her own free will. She might be exactly as she says she is -- just fine staying with her parents and caring for the other kids.
Sure we WANT someone to break away. But they may not want to. They may have genuine belief in this system and not want to change.
She very well may be, we have no idea. I didn't advocate for her to break away, I merely said she's a fool or brainwashed if she thinks she can't. I think both of those ideas are highly unlikely.
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1 minute ago, deaja said:
I do think we get glimpses of Jana's thoughts though as well, but not as direct as the others. And from what I've seen, I don't think she's heroic or better than the others. She edited someone's clothes in a picture she posted on IG because it didn't meet her modesty standards.
I agree, she's no better than the rest. I see her as being either cowed and brainwashed, or a complete idiot if she thinks she cannot walk away and manage to survive and force JB to allow her access to her siblings if that's what she really wanted.
She's had plenty of time outside the compound and constant monitoring to be very aware the emperor has no clothes. The only way I can see that not being true would be if in fact Laura is JB's eyes and ears on Jana. If so you'd think she would have been onhand to help Jana and avoid the whole endangering the welfare of a minor incident.
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3 hours ago, absnow54 said:
I admire them for going to the trial everyday to hear all the facts laid out, instead of treating it like a spectacle like Jim Bob did. It was incredibly brave for Joy to attend during Bobye's testimony. I'm actually kind of shocked that they agreed with the jury though. The dynamics in this family is going to change forever after this. It would be a terrible thing to give the family another show, but THIS transition is so compelling!
33 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:I mean honestly I would be fine with some of the Duggars showing up on 20/20 or Dateline or something like that, years later, to talk about their experiences.
The interview and tell all I envision as being most potentially riveting at this point would be from Anna, post parental, in-law and spouse brainwashing -- fully awake and mad enough to spill nothing but facts, cold, hard facts.
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28 minutes ago, Absolom said:
What's that old saying - prison is college for criminals? He may learn how to continue his proclivities with more techniques to avoid detection.
Exposure to criminal behavior in incarceration is why in the juvenile system many judges and referees try very hard not to incarcerate juveniles unless there is no other option.
Josh's techniques and abilities to deceive will definitely be beyond doctoral level once he's released. He's also likely to be nurturing a significant amount of depression, rage and deprivation. Wouldn't be surprised to find him a felon with both dangerous predatory drive he's looking to satisfy -- as well as anger issues looking for an outlet.
None of this is to suggest I think Josh shouldn't be incarcerated. Just recognizing the fact he will be released and will still be all too young when he is.
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On 12/13/2021 at 8:10 AM, Westiepeach said:I mentioned that a few weeks ago. This will not be the same Josh she thought she was married to. "Coming Home From Prison" Josh will probably not even want to come "home" to the life he had before. I can see Josh divorcing Anna.
He's going to need a place to live and he will have very few options available to him of sustaining himself. IMO the best way he has of remaining on JB's teet in any substantial way will be to reunite with Anna and his children so that he can live in the lifestyle JB provides them. I would not be at all surprised to see JB providing only a bare, very bare subsistence to a solo Josh.
Now that Josh has blown an unquestionable hole clean through the middle of JB's ongoing financial revenues on many fronts I'm not so sure JB is even on the Josh is innocent bandwagon privately anymore. We may never hear words from JB or M saying they believe him guilty, but that doesn't mean that they are insisting he's innocent either. JB's evasive and deceptive testimony before the court may have been largely for the benefit of his own ego and reputation much more than Josh's. It's also not impossible JB received legal counsel on his own behalf advising him what not to say or admit to in order to prevent his words being used in a civil lawsuit from any of his children seeking monetary damages.
I do agree with @crazycatlady58 upthread that, no matter what, the Josh that leaves prison will be a very changed individual. What I find scary is it's quite likely his experiences are likely to enhance many of his negative traits in disturbing ways -- and that's even excluding the terrifying prospect of his proclivities involving child sexual abuse.
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23 hours ago, IndianPaintbrush said:
This whole situation is infuriating. I get that someone needs to be held legally accountable, but it should be the PARENTS. Do we have confirmation that DHS is investigating?
Those poor kids. A father in prison and a neglectful idiot mother.
IF the speculation were to be correct that it was Josh and Anna's youngest and IF Anna had in fact been the one to lose track of the child or IF she in fact left them all in the care of her eldest child Anna could find herself the subject of CPS investigation and some supervision.
Explaining that away to authorities by stating Jana was the one Anna left in charge wipes away Anna's problems as Jana is a close adult relative deemed capable of caring for children. It puts Jana a bit on the hotseat, but the odds of any real permanent consequences to Jana is small.
No idea if this is at all close to what actually happened, merely based on the speculation being discussed and further speculating given the family circumstances and recognizing they likely want CPS firmly on the outside of their gates. It's not much of a stretch to see Anna herself being the one falling asleep and losing track of her child -- very pregnant, very stressed, maybe not getting very good rest at night, etc.
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So it's confirmed, Jana was in fact charged? I do agree with what was mentioned upthread, the most likely scenario is an improperly restrained child in a motor vehicle, or leaving a young child unsupervised in a vehicle. Wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that's routine for children in the extended family.
Might be a sign of authorities keeping a watchful eye for any inroads to come in and keep tabs on children in an insular environment where it's been painfully demonstrated there are some adults who are lackadaisical, for lack of a better word, about prioritizing the safety and wellbeing of children. Especially if a plea deal was offered and accepted jail time is not on the table -- not that it would have been, absent wanton and reckless driving, DUI charges or the like.
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6 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:
Well, Josie is 12 today. That's the age that they believe kids turn into adults who are self-sufficient (aside from their half-assed "schooling"). Jana did her job and got all the girls to that point. Maybe she will branch out even more or even move out.
A 12 year old deserves to live in a home where the adults in charge are happy and excited to celebrate her milestone with her. Yes, sometimes life intervenes and a parent has to be on a business trip or a family member is ill and the celebration has to be postponed, but it shouldn't be because the family is reeling because the eldest brother just got convicted of CSAM.
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2 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:
Someone on another site dug up the information and it did happen.
Happening to Jane or John Doe without being reported in the news would be expected. Happening to someone named Duggar with Josh's case looming seems unlikely to me.
One aspect that would not surprise me is a concerted effort by CPS and LE to crack open the doors to keeping an eye on children within this extended family. Recognizing that the conviction may have strengthened the position of authorities to open an investigation may be one factor in the tenor of the family's public statements noting support and respect of the verdict and conspicuously not offering a single hint they support Josh's claim of innocence.
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29 minutes ago, lascuba said:
I was thinking something along those lines, but would lack of a carseat get one charged with a misdemeanor?
Oh, if it's only WOACB "reporting" this, then the likelihood of BS is high. If Jana's already been to court, there's no way the media wouldn't have been all over it already.
It could result in a misdemeanor charge, and a CPS investigation. Not absolute given, but not uncommon either.
I agree that it's unlikely this would have flown under the radar given the family's profile in the area -- especially with the Josh circumstance looming large.
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7 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:
Reads very similar in tone to other statements coming from the family.
The last line might point to a possible pulling of punches so as not to salt wounds. Anna's? JB & M's?
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24 minutes ago, Readalot said:I will give Derrick props for making the changes he has and supporting Jill. Actions matter. Time will tell if he continues to drop his unsavory traits.
I look at it in the light of even a broken clock can be right twice a day. He's espoused some horrible ideas, but that doesn't rule out the possibility that he has been a great support to Jill and had very good reason to take a stand against JB.
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These are people who legitimately put more weight on mowing a lawn in a bikini being problematic and taking extreme measures to avoid anything in the same universe as that than they did to protect and care for victims of their son's abuse and doing everything possible to ensure there wouldn't be future victims.
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Making the analogy between the trial and a funeral is probably incredibly accurate in terms of the upheaval and turmoil the family has been going through, and will no doubt continue to go through for some time. Hopefully by the time he is released they all will have achieved plenty of stability because that will no doubt churn plenty of muck back to the surface for all of them. It's likely he returns to a dramatically changed family dynamic -- hopefully very much including his own household.
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14 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:
Boobchelle's statement was fundie word salad bullshit. No admission of Joshua's guilt. Not much of a plan for Anna, who was in the end railroaded into this disaster (her word from 2015).
Like Amy's statement it has the feel of being written by a PR person. Their voices don't come through at all. While it doesn't admit his guilt, it astonishingly does not suggest his innocence either. I did not expect them to give up that stance easily, if at all.
Leads me to believe they accept his guilt, which I cannot imagine they would admit to anyone, or they are desperately holding out hope that their images can be rehabilitated. Whether the hope for rehabilitation includes eventually resuming professional public lives on TV, etc, or if it's simply being able to hold their heads up in public again I don't know.
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5 minutes ago, BetyBee said:
@Churchhoney, I'm with you on this. I have an incarcerated relative serving time for a serious crime. She isn't just passing time. She really has seen the error of her ways and tries to atone for her crime by leading a good life. There are opportunities for her to improve herself and she has taken advantage.
Josh is a pedophile and it's unlikely that those urges will disappear. However, I would be happy for him and for his family if he were to see his crimes as crimes and get counseling to try to get a handle on why he is the way he is. I would hope that he one day would see that he presents a danger to children and accept that he deserves punishment. I would also hope that he furthers his education. In short, it would be great if he made the most of his time in prison. It's up to him. No one can do it for him.
I hope too, that Anna makes use of her time without him. I hope she focuses on her children and thinks about providing for them herself. I really hope that she expands her point of view and branches out in the world. She could find that she is strong enough without her husband to lead a good life. Just as with Josh, only she can do these things for herself. It's up to her.
IMO Josh is highly likely to receive counseling for his crimes -- in order to look better on paper for any parole proceedings.
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4 minutes ago, peppergal said:
Well he's currently in the jail that was giving Ivermectin to the inmates, to the horror of many advocacy groups, and they are on record as saying that all medical treatments including vaccines are voluntary. So I suspect the rest of their covid protocols for inmates are pretty much in line with his own (lack of) thinking.
Hold the phone . . . a jail with legal custody of humans has been giving a medicine to inmates in contradiction with established medical recommendations?!?! They may as well hand out cash to all of them because I would bet there will eventually be lawsuits coming down the line and some jobs will be lost.
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Michelle and JimBob aka J'Chelle and Boob
in Counting On
I was surprised when I read here they were in a parade as well. It wasn't until your post that it finally percolated into my brain what they were up to.
As far as your question I think it would take an awful lot for JB to recognize the toothpaste ain't ever going back in the tube and their lives are permanently changed. I'd imagine his world is liable to get much smaller in an effort to avoid coming into contact with people who might not receive him the way he wishes to be received.