Tikichick
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Posts posted by Tikichick
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15 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:
Boob never mentioned physical abuse during his spiels against JL. Verbal abuse was implied when Boob talked about his beer drinking. From the speeches I've heard, JL was a recreational beer drinker (a couple beers while working on his cars), but Boob blew it up as if he was a full blown alcoholic. This tactic is common among the fundies who believe that any alcohol consumption is of the devil, and that anyone who drinks must be an alcoholic.
12 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:Isn’t that one of their issues with Jill? She (GASP) had a drink & shared it on social media.
Hasn't JB himself owned up to the fact that he struggled with lashing out with his anger on his children? If so it seems that should at least be an equal infraction to Jill's imbibing under their twisted accounting system.
Oh no, wait, hold up, I forgot to take the deductions for penis and headship so obviously my math was wonky. My bad.
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1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:
That's definitely part of it, but I do believe fundies like JB twist the 5th commandment in a similar fashion as what they do with the 9th. So, you only have to honor your father and mother if they are the correct type of Christian. A born-again Christian has no Jesus-mandated obligation to honor his Catholic/Methodist/Buddhist/Jewish/Atheist/fill-in-the-blank father. Daddy does/did not believe in the right Jesus, therefore he's got a one-way ticket to hell, and there is no reason why you need to honor him.
Exactly, the teachings of the Bible always magically line up with the beliefs of these zealots or are simply subservient to how they wish things to be. The entire structure Gothard set up was simply the means to what he wanted -- and appealed to a lot of men desperate to subjugate women in a patriarchy in a way that makes it seem as if it's about a faithful lifestyle that benefits the family. No, it's just a covert misdirection that seeks to take away the free will that we're all created with by design.
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16 hours ago, Nysha said:
It's funny, I'm pretty sure the fifth commandment in that bible he supposedly follows demands that he honor his father. It doesn't say only honor your father if he wasn't an asshole or you didn't hate him.
If you look at JB's practice of faith though you hear a lot about reading the Bible, but the actual practices he espouses and demands from those under his headship aren't really scriptural or gospel based, rather manmade. Hence the appeal of Gothard and IBLP, which sets up these male potentates with systems designed primarily to serve exactly what they want, whatever it may be.
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19 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:
In the early years, Boobchelle went to San Francisco. They had an IBLP speaking engagement in the Valley (Modesto, IIRC, it's been almost 15 years). They went to a head shop, and Boob marveled over the pipes and other paraphernalia. 😂 They bought a boho skirt for Joy.
This sounds like the stuff of legend. Cannot believe I've never heard about this before!
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Since Matthew Morrison won't be staying on the panel for the season I'd like to put my bid in that they bring back Lil C if they won't bring back Mary or Nigel. C had some of the best critiques ever, interesting for the audience and substantive for the dancers to grow with.
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11 hours ago, A.Ham said:
Seven nation army, White Stripes. Just caught it on today’s repeat.
That's what was broadcast. It's been played on the show several times over the years, so they can get clearance for it, it matched the choreo well enough and it must not break the bank. They actually were dancing to another song if you watch closely.
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1 hour ago, xwordfanatik said:
Will they finally say bye-bye to Birtha?
Blasphemy!
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38 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:
He passed away in 2009, I believe. There's an infamous scene on 19 Kids where JL was sick with brain cancer. He had mobility issues and was seen being wheeled through the TTH in a broken office chair.
Now I understand all the broken office chair golden years wishes for JB & M.
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Don't forget their treasured family heirloom -- the sofa!
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On 5/30/2022 at 11:54 AM, SusanM said:
I could see Josh divorcing Anna, or at least not moving back in to share a life with her, if something happens in prison to change him. What I could see potentially is him finally making a break from the fundie life once and for all. He isn't cut out for it - well other than the "bow down before the man in your life" aspect of it anyway.
You mean precisely what a huge portion of the "faithful" consider the best part of it?
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1 hour ago, madpsych78 said:
Grandpa Duggar - Jimmy Lee Duggar I believe.
Thanks. Don't remember hearing him mentioned very much.
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On 5/29/2022 at 2:10 PM, emmawoodhouse said:
This is JL Duggar''s senior picture. I think he looks like James.
Who is JL Duggar?
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7 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:
I agree and that's what her answer should have been - I was young. But she couldn't very well say that because her mom didn't do anything about it, so hence the "we didn't know" lies.
Really shines a light on many of the struggles families in this type of situation go through and how many different reasons there might be to stay silent and act as if the dysfunction and abuse don't exist/didn't happen.
JB & M - fear for reputation/income, don't want to jeopardize son, don't want to risk authorities stepping in regarding other children.
Grandma Mary - fear for reputation/income of self & son, don't want to risk tearing apart son's family.
Aunt - don't want to hurt/anger mom and brother, afraid of potentially losing support of mom and brother, believe brother and sister in law are genuinely handling situation properly themselves?
Amy - young and likely confused and possibly didn't have much accurate detail initially, may have been instructed by adults to keep her mouth shut or risk opening up financial consequences or possibly some type of emotional threat about casting herself and her mother out.
Siblings - fear of what could happen and possibly upend life as they knew it, shame, guilt, etc.
Change and unknown are common fears for a lot of people. This type of situation in a family heightens those types of fears. Sadly a lot of the family responses in this case line up with what happens in a lot of families facing this type of trauma, prolonging and multiplying the tragedy.
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19 hours ago, madpsych78 said:
I actually like the idea of a black front door. It would break up the white and beige.
Jessa was actually a little more animated compared to her other videos that centered around the kids and the family. I guess she does like doing house projects and may have more skill there compared to cooking or cleaning.
If that's the case it points what a shame it is she was left with only the path of pursuing young marriage and popping out a line of children instead of being able to explore what interested her and where her passions might have taken her. Maybe she could have pursued a career that allowed her to get paid for doing house projects.
Then again, Jana seems to enjoy house projects as well and hasn't stepped toe towards a career either.
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On 5/28/2022 at 3:33 PM, all fall down said:
I found the text of the Alice letters a while ago online so I saved them. Text posted under the spoiler due to length. It's wild that this info has all been around since 2007, nearly a decade before it all came out publically. Like a lot of us here, I definitely remember hearing the rumors, so when it all came out I was not surprised.
I bolded the part where Alice claims to know the person who called Oprah.
I agree Deana and Amy had to know something, they must have at least heard the rumors. I can believe that they didn't know the specifics of the "touching" because that didn't really come out until the police report. Either they got their information from JB who we know downplayed it, or they were willingly ignorant, but they had to know something was going on.
“The Alice letters Here's the full text:
Alice Says: May 22nd, 2007 at 7:03 pm
To Ruth, Let me tell you something about the precious Duggars that you don’t know. First, Michelle hasn’t bathed her younger children in years. It is all left up to the older children. They have children that have never seen the inside of a grocery store. Everything that you have seen on TV is staged. Big Time. Michelle hasn’t cooked a meal in years. Hasn’t cleaned house in years. All she does is try to look norman for the TV camera’s. Get real. This couple is out for the fame and money that they can get. They receive “Love Offering” from all over the country. They have church services in their home when it is to their advantage. They get paid for that. He and his mother “Mary” has this all figured out. She is fame hungry and she couldn’t manage this for herself and now she is helping out Jim Bob and Michelle. She calls different TV shows and exploits her grandchildren. This is the Duggar’s way of making a living and providing for the huge family. Fame and Fortune In January, the whole family went to Chicago and taped Oprah Winfrey show. Oprah wined and dined them for one week. You know that had to cost some pretty pennies. As you may have noticed, that show never aired and it never will. Oprah was informed that Josh, the oldest son, had been molesting his sisters. Yes, this is the truth. Oprah turned them over to the Arkansas State Police Child Protection Agency and the Washington County Child Protection Agency. They have been investigated to some length. Jim Bob Duggar told the producers of the show that he built a small church out back for his followers. HIS FOLLOWERS. GET REAL. THE MAN IS A FRAUD. In April, they were in court with their story. They have to report to Arkansas Department of Human Services every six months.. They have lied and lied about their son to protect him at their daughters expense. For some unknown reason the boy is still in the home with the girls. God only know if this is still going on. In my eyes he is a CHILD MOLESTOR. HE SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM THE HOME. What kind of parents cover up for one child and hurt the others. I do not believe that this is what God has in mind for them. Frauding the American people and taking their money and living off of it. They did not build their home by themselves. They hired it done. The Discovery Health Channel and the TLC channel wrote them a check for over $200,000. for the to build the house. Everything inside the house was given to them except the kitchen. They did buy that themselves. The rest is all free. Mary and Josh was on the phone day and night asking for donations from soup to Computers. They also received a Baby Grand Piano from Campbell Soup Co. The trip to California was also provided by the TV Stations. It was mapped out. Mile for Mile. They did not spend a penny of their money. All the groceries and gas and lodging and clothing was paid for in advance. For someone who wants to be famous, why lie about the facts. Seems funny to me. They are professional liers, both of them.. They twist their words to make them look good and and look like devoted parents and a great big happy family. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you don’t believe me, contact the Arkansas State Police Child Protection Agency in Bentonville, Ar. and the Washington County Child Protection Agency in Fayetteville. It will be worth the time and effort to read all about it. There is a lot more that I could go into but I simply do not have that much time. I think that is time the the Duggar’s are stopped. They are pimping out their family for material things to keep them fed and clothed. If they cannot feed and clothe their children, don’t have them.
Alice Says: May 24th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
People, trust me or not. I know this for a fact. God’s honest truth that the molestation happened. It happened to four of his 5 sisters. The oldest daughter was not touched. The second daughter is the one who caught him doing this. There was no rape involved, but molested. I could go into detail, but I won’t. Of course, you can find nothing about the charges. The Duggar’s want to keep this hid. Wouldn’t you? They wouldn’t have the things that they do if it had gotten out earlier. That’s the way that they make their living and travel at the expenses of others. Jim Bob and Michelle are very aware of this happening and have chosen to protect Josh over his sisters. The family is to report to DHS every six months and that the girls are in counciling. This is what the courts ordered. Jim Bob and Michelle both tried to lie their way out of this, but it didn’t happen. Just ask them, but they will just lie about it. They call their son “Precious Josh” and in their eyes he can do nothing wrong. What about the girls? I think that everyone should know about this problem and that the Duggars are frauds. They make the Talk Shows under the impression that they are pure and they receive “Love Offerings” from the viewers. He has got it figured out. How to be famous and make a living for his brood and not have to work to get it.
Alice Says: May 25th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Well Robert, like you I was always very supportive of the Duggars. I’ve been in their home. I’ve even gone to church with them. Something just didn’t feel right. For some reason I didn’t trust Jim Bob. Then the truth came out about his son. He is the one that told what happened. Josh got up in front of the church and ask for forgiveness and all that stuff, but he was secretly still up to no good. I really don’t know how long it had been going on before it came out, but even after it did Josh pretented to be this sweet all American boy who loved his family. All the time he was going on Prono sites on the internet and watching all the filth that it has. The temptation was too much and he explored with his sisters. I know the person that contacted Oprah and told her that the family is not as pure as they seem. They were taking Oprah, the Discovery Health Channel, TLC Channel and everyone else that they have appeared on for a big ride. They receive money for each show, and if not money they get something out of it. Jim Bob has made the statement that is the way that he has to provide for his family. Don’t you think that is being a fraud? If not, please explain what is the difference. They know that when they go on the shows that they lie and the more the exposure they have the more money that comes in to him. It was Oprah’s decision the turn them over the the authorties. Oprah is not the only one that has turned them in for child abuse. Of course you can’t find any records on this. It is all sealed behind closed doors. The truth needs to be told and I have made it my mission to stop this from happening. They are frauds and living off of the good graces of other people. I’ve watch them on the Montel Williams show and I wanted to throw up. It made me sick inside to know what I know and to watch them get in front of a TV camera and lie.
Alice Says: May 26th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
The Duggars do annoy me more than other quiver full families. Probably because they are pimping their lifestyle on TV for money and publicity. It bugs me. I admit it fully. Especially when you throw in their tax-exempt status. (I really do need to start worshiping Mighty Mouse and form my own home-based church so I too, can enjoy this little benefit) It just sickens me. They pimp themselves to a world that they don’t even approve of. How much more hypocritical can someone get?
I don’t have a problem with the stereotypical gender roles that they adhere to. I don’t even have a problem with the Little House on the Prairie wardrobe. I have a problem with a group of hypocrites who are pimping themselves on national TV…not only for the money because it is individual people’s choice to watch the show or not, and if people don’t want to watch, then they wouldn’t be on, but also the whole political aspirations of Jim Bob being furthered by this. So, it’s okay to appeal to the outside world of which they don’t approve, as long as it furthers their crazy aspirations? Either stick to the lifestyle and live it, or admit that they are a bunch of hypocrites. Other quiver full families don’t attempt to mainstream themselves. They know it’s their personal choice, don’t seek public approval, and just continue on.
And I really have a problem with children raising children and taking care of the household, while mom sits on her tush cranking out the next one. I get no impression that Michelle is a hands on mother after those children hit 3mos. old. Once they hit that age she hands them off and starts working on the next one. It’s sick. The human body wasn’t made to handle it either. She’ll be dead by the time she’s 50, and her uterus will be gone long before then. It isn’t healthy, nor something to aspire to.”
If what the letters say about Grandma Mary are at all true it would explain a lot about Amy's behavior.
Not so sure I can point much of a finger at Amy for not taking action based on what she knew all those years ago when the adults in the situation, including mom, Grandma, Aunt and Uncle didn't do so. Somehow it doesn't seem quite fair to expect someone of Amy's age at the time to come forward.
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On 5/28/2022 at 8:22 AM, GeeGolly said:
Even if Anna had some money in her name it wouldn't last very long in supporting 7 kids. She would need a steady income, from say, a few rentals, to even think of being able to support her family.
The only way I see Anna moving off the compound is if it was a JB sanctioned move to have her closer to Josh. I also see that as her best chance of seeing the truth, so it likely won't happen.
I can't even begin to imagine supporting seven children, with a hardworking diligent spouse, let alone solo.
I've wondered if they, I guess JB particularly, actually want Anna to accept the truth? I guess there's the potential that if she had done so she would have truly kept an eye on him and prevented his arrest in the first place -- actually the Ashley Madison mess, too. I can totally see JB & M taking the stance that it was Anna's job to be vigilant and if necessary report anything to JB that she couldn't put a stop to herself, making the consequences ultimately her fault.
I'm not suggesting that attitude is correct, merely a possibility I could see them adopting in order to absolve themselves from any hint of responsibility for the way their son has behaved repeatedly over many years. Anna's staunch commitment to her marriage has withstood at least three increasingly devastating public bombshells. JB may bank on that commitment being unshakeable and decide it's in everyone's best interest for Anna to at least be defending her marriage from the perspective of the reality of who and what Josh is.
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3 hours ago, Zella said:
I agree 100% with everything you say about Anna not identifying as an independent woman. Did want to note that the raid was actually nearly three years ago (November 2019) and his arrest was actually over a year ago (April 2021). Which just further points to how much she doesn't want to branch out beyond what she's doing. She's had quite a bit of time to think about this, and she apparently hasn't.
Whenever I consider Anna I always wind up wondering if she in fact simply does not have the capacity to think beyond the box she's always lived in, the boundaries she's always known? I'm not saying that there's anything lacking in her actual intelligence, as far as I know she has the capacity to function quite normally and can learn, etc.
Matter of fact I remember back to the episodes where they were shown living away from the family outside of DC and thinking she was making a nice start teaching their first couple of kids the very basics like most parents do with very young kids -- ABCs, numbers, colors, "cooking" with mom or dad, making art projects, etc. Her approach to the kids, her enthusiasm, her organization, etc. all stood above and beyond what seemed normal at the TTH. I had hopes that even in the stunted environment it would still be a notch above TTH standards. (I'll take any sliver of hope and light any of these kids get for education and knowledge.)
As far as stepping back to take a critical look at what she's been taught her whole life and actually questioning anything as possibly being wrong, misguided, harmful, exploitative, no I don't think Anna ever considers there's any possibility whatsoever. I think that is non existent for her, a total blindspot. She's so indoctrinated down to her core she cannot conceive for one moment her life isn't built on the bedrock she's certain she sees and feels beneath her feet.
The serious disservice her parents did her is just a terrifying reminder of the damage this cult has and is doing to all these young kids hurtling towards adulthood at warp speed, completely unaware, completely unprepared, completely unable to fend for themselves to the point they are oblivious for the need to do so. Sadly I don't see any likelihood of Anna opening her eyes to the dangers until the situation her children are in is very dire.
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8 hours ago, ChiCricket said:
Interesting article, especially this part:
"He must partake in a sex offender treatment program.
While the judge mentioned during the sentencing that one of the Federal Corrections Institutions being considered for Josh has a “good sex offender program,” he did not state that Josh needed to partake in it. On the minute sheet, however, the judge makes it clear that Josh’s participation in one of these programs is required. He also has to pay for it."
I thought it was discussed here that it was voluntary and that he'd probably never do it? (not that I think it would help)
If the Judge said it's required I'll accept that as court ordered as opposed to anything said here speculating it's voluntary. Purely speculation on my part, I'd guess the Judge is putting forth his preference as to where the BOP assigns him so that he has the "good sex offender program" available to him, while the Judge recognizes he has no direct authority to determine where the BOP decides to house him.
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2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:
I agree. For most kids Josh's punishment would have felt very big, very severe at his age then. Even his time in Jesus Jail wasn't too different to what drug rehabs look like. But I don't think any amount of treatment and/or punishment way back when, or now, will show any true improvements.
Treatment may not have helped Josh. (At this point it would be almost salt in the wound to know that it would have.) Real punishment from authorities other than his parents would have at least meant the family would have been on the radar of child protective professionals, which may have helped his siblings.
Solid professional treatment in the aftermath of what he did to them likely would have done his victims good, especially if they were getting any sort of input from their parents or anyone else that they had any share of the blame for what happened to them -- which actually may have left more marks than what Josh did to them if the account that they were asleep and unaware is true.
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1 minute ago, Future Cat Lady said:
I was not saying that he should not be locked up but prison doesn't solve anything. Sex offenders are not in prison forever. They come back to society and often reoffend.
I agree with you. This is an area where we really need to carefully look at how we punish the offenders and how we address their ability to reoffend, because both need to happen for many reasons.
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17 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:
Maybe I’m wrong, but it’s my understanding that prison doesn’t help sex offenders. If you have these urges, prison is not going to stop them. But I’m not a shrink and I don’t know what Josh’s issues are. If he goes to therapy while in prison, it might help him but it might also not.
Punishment doesn't do anything to cure the compulsions, but it is necessary for the protection of society. Apparently some offenders can be helped, but it requires serious motivation on their part -- and apparently is dependent upon what predicates their drive in the first place.
14 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:He will reoffend 5 minutes after he gets out of prison.
Unfortunately he will probably emerge a more highly skilled predator. If that isn't terrifying I don't know what is. Many of them over time become very disciplined about playing the long game when it comes to achieving their goals. I literally felt my insides going to jelly earlier when I read upthread that one of the potential locations he may be incarcerated in is predominantly populated by sex offenders. I cannot wrap my brain around the idea of dozens of them living in daily proximity,, exchanging tips.
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49 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:
How many of y'all think Josh will not reoffend after his stint in prison?
39 minutes ago, SusanM said:Based on his downward spiral I hate to even think about what his next offense could be but I am pretty sure there will be something.
I literally feel sick thinking about it.
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11 minutes ago, Jeeves said:
BOOM. I almost got chills reading that when I got to the part I bolded, knowing who issued it. That statement is not vague, and I don't think it pulls any punches. I wish them well in their new house, with the baby, and with Derick's new career.
ETA: The statement is on their blog here: https://www.dillardfamily.com/2022/05/our-response-to-joshs-sentencing/
BOOM is right ... in the bullseye. Shines a big ole light on the crux of the problem -- this guy is a danger to children and therefore society. It's clear they will never forget that, nor should anyone.
Anybody think there's a possibility that by the time he's released the Duggar hairline will have receded to the point where there's enough real estate to tattoo the pertinent statements about his potential to reoffend on his forehead for public convenience?
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11 hours ago, LilyD said:
I'm glad he's going to be locked up for quite some time. But what spoils the joy for me is all the pro-Duggar pleas and letters. Yes, it was to be expected but still... None of them acknowledged the severity of what he did. They refuse to accept that this man is a very real threat to children. It scares me, it really does.
In a way, that makes them all almost as dangerous as Josh. You can't protect kids if you
cannotwon't recognise and stop potential (or in this case very obvious) danger....Those letters did not serve the purpose the authors intended, quite the opposite. The Judge's comments weren't complimentary, but a master stroke by a skilled orator to highlight data he used to inform his sentencing decision with a seemingly benign/positive comment that shines like klieg lights if reviewed by an appellate court.
The Judge didn't have to note that none of the parties on Josh's side of the equation give a bleep about hurting children because they went to the trouble to put it down in black and white for posterity.
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Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!
in Counting On
Don't forget to add the wrinkle where the teenagers and the toddlers are sharing the same bedroom.