Tikichick
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Posts posted by Tikichick
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27 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:
Is there any chance that if he enforces enhancers it would be grounds for an appeal - malicious sentencing or whatever? I would assume this isn't the first case you've seen where enhancers could be justified. So if they don't typically enforce them would there be a problem down the road where he's let out earlier?
It would trigger an appeal of sentence only, not apply to an appeal of the overall guilty verdict.
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8 minutes ago, quarks said:
In theory yes, in practice, most defense attorneys (private, public, pro bono) do not have the specific skills/experience needed to handle a federal appeals case. So defendants generally have to pay for an appeals attorney, or get an attorney to take them on for free - a generally overworked one.
Some inmates end up trying to do their own appeals, with mixed results. Others manage to get taken on by the Innocence Project or a think tank focused on one of the issues at trial. In this particular situation, for instance, Josh's attorneys were arguing back in August that the initial BitTorrent search was a violation of multiple constitutional rights, thus making the later search warrants invalid. As it happens, a number of different groups/attorneys are arguing similar points right now, so it's at least possible that one of those groups might take an interest in this particular case.....
....but I doubt it. Most of those discussions that I've seen have focused either on the concerns of multimedia conglomerates like AT&T/WarnerMedia and Disney; political dissidents in various countries; or online harassment. All of these groups can find significantly more sympathetic defendants than Josh Duggar as they discuss what the federal government should or should not be monitoring online and the limits of that moderation.
I think perhaps there is some confusion about what an appeal actually is. Absolutely if you are convicted you are entitled to court appointed counsel to "perfect your appeal". That doesn't mean that you get a trial. It means your appellate counsel would obtain transcripts of all hearings, look at your defense attorney's case files and other information and submit briefs to the appellate court outlining legal reasons and any alleged palpable legal errors associated with your case that should be taken up on appeal. Most of the time appeals end when the appellate court denies whatever is raised in those briefs and that is the end of the appeal. Because most of it is administrative in nature and the only "ruling" of the appeals court is a denial to hear an appeal (have a trial on it), to most observers and defendants it seems they never got an appeal.
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2 minutes ago, ginger90 said:
Surprisingly restrained and well thought out. Doesn't ring with Amy's usual freewheeling, emotional, shoot from the hip blasts.
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9 minutes ago, louannems said:
Do defendants with a public attorney also have access to appeals? Or just private paying?
Absolutely.
Even defendants with retained counsel who are convicted can receive court appointed appellate counsel. It's often the case that appeals are court appointed because not a lot of people can afford to retain appellate counsel after paying for counsel for trial.
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44 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:
So....will there be happy Christmas parties at the Duggar house this year?
For the sake of the innocent kids and the siblings who didn't do anything wrong, I hope they have a great time without Josh.
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42 minutes ago, hathorlive said:
So here's the sticking point. Normally this gets you a 10 year sentence. I've never had a case get consecutive sentences, they always run concurrent. However, the judge seems to dislike Josh and his attorneys. He seems to understand the harm he's done. Will he take time to write out a justification for going outside the standard sentence? We know his average sentence for this is around 8 years, give or take. Will the abuse of his sisters and danger he presents yield a consecutive sentence? 8 years followed by 8 years? Or will he throw every enhancer at him? Could we see a 20 year sentence for possession/receipt? I doubt it, but this Judge is pretty fly.
What are federal sentencing guidelines like if the Judge deviates much from the norm? Here at the state level even deviations with extensive explanations from the Judge are frequently taken up on appellate review of sentencing -- and many times remanded back to the trial court for resentencing.
I'd hate to see him given a very justified upward deviation in sentencing that is then remanded for a resentencing, giving JB and supporters any room to point to as "see, even the justice system can see Josh didn't deserve to be found guilty and held accountable". I just want him to get as much of a sentence as the system will allow and fade into public obscurity -- while being miserable in incarceration.
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3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:
Woman with a message for JB and M. I wonder what they'd think if they ever listened to anything like this. But I'm pretty sure they never do or would. I hope I'm wrong about that.
Bravo, Madam! Flat out, plainspoken and very well said. Unvarnished truth.
"You portrayed it as J O Y, Jesus, Others, Yourselves, but the J was Jim Bob, not Jesus."
"You are evil. That was deception. That wasn't the spirit of God or being a Christian."
Even if they never hear this I certainly hope these types of thoughts are running amuck in their minds, unbidden and uncontrolled, for the rest of their lives.
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Just now, GeeGolly said:
I don't think she's part of Josie's wedding make-up and hair accessories businesses, other than modeling the accessories. But like you said, she's a recent cosmetology graduate.
Couldn't remember Josie's name but I swear they showed Katie joining Josie and her partner to meet a customer for a consult and Katie was doing the trial run makeup while getting used to the airbrush.
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Isn't Katie one of the daughters that joined her sister's wedding hair and makeup business after cosmetology school? I think I have that correct. Seems like she should have had flawless hair and makeup as a bride. I believe she was seen on their show getting familiar with airbrushing because that's what they use in the business.
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1 minute ago, Sile said:I really hope he doesn't get to remain free on bond after pleading for just one more Christmas with his kids.
Just going from what I've read, it seems this judge doesn't have much use for him or the defense so hopefully it will be go directly go jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Hope he came prepared with a fresh pair of undies and a toothbrush!
I'd be surprised to see a judge prepared to face the outcry for allowing a felon convicted of CSAM the opportunity to "spend just one more Christmas with his children."
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49 minutes ago, crazy8s said:
or maybe Josie is learning to be the family barber.
That would actually probably be interesting content to view -- if the parents weren't such repugnant wastes of flesh.
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5 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:
Dillards - here to fuck shit up.
There are obvious still problematic aspects with both Jill and Derick, but the stand she is taking for herself and her kids and the stand Derick has taken to support her and their family speaks volumes.
It will take decades for her to fully unravel herself from the tangled web of abuse and indoctrination and denial browbeaten into her for the first 20-some years of her life. I think she will continue to grow along with her sons. I can only imagine how her views will change in another 10-20 years when she is even further removed from her FOO's toxic influence. Will she/Derick be 100% non-problematic someday? Probably not, but I do see capacity in both of them to change for the better.
At the very least I hope the direction they've taken will open as many viewpoints as possible for their sons to consider as they form their own perspectives of the world and eventually make their own decisions about the lives they will lead as adults someday. Sad to think that a family determined to crank out eleventy million grandchildren is also a family that seems determined to keep as many of them from becoming productive and self sufficient members of society as possible.
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On 12/1/2021 at 2:20 PM, Churchhoney said:
I hsven't really had a feeling one way or another about whether JB and M made a PR blunder -- or did a perfectly fine thing -- when they published happy family-Thanksgiving pictures last week. I can see that one both ways.
But I do think that riding down the street in a Thanksgiving-Christmas parade at basically the exact moment when this hideous mess was about to bust wide open was a dumb and tone-deaf -- and possibly literally crazy -- move indeed.
Gathering your family at home for a warm Thanksgiving dinner and photographing your loved ones? That's one thing. ....
Grinning and waving at strangers on the street from a float when your son is about to be tried for hideous vicious sexual crimes and his earlier ugly sex offenses against several of your daughters will likely be part of the public conversation? ....Stay home and stop waving. (also, don't bring a little girl with you on the float)
I had no idea they had the temerity to appear in a parade.
Interesting how many of the Thanksgiving prep pictures show the male Duggars involved in preparing the meal, which never seemed to be the case when their prized eldest was part of the gathering.
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30 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:
You can keep sending notes out to the judge to ask questions and ask if you can have this or that . ...That's encouraged, really.....But .... the replies are mostly "We can't tell you that." ....
The two sides are supposed to make their cases clear and detailed enough so that you can judge what your decision should be in terms of what the law says based on what they've provided.......
And any information that goes beyond that is basically irrelevant. Recidivism rates and such are a valid source of concern if you're on a committee to reevaluate sentencing guidelines or something. But as a jury, you're dealing with the law as written, period.
The sentence isn't in the jury's purview and should not come into deliberations in any way. Jury is the finder of fact and the sentencing (if any) is left up to the judge.
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On 12/5/2021 at 8:24 PM, CalicoKitty said:
I'm not sure the tabloids will ever be finished with Josh. There will always be at least a couple of lines about his case in any future write-up on any family member or any family event. Josh has created a great family legacy.
I have no problem with Josh and his parents being perpetually roasted in the media. His siblings shouldn't be expected to pay for the sins of that trio, especially the ones who were victimized.
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27 minutes ago, Zella said:
I am totally cheering this on, but every time I read an update, I reflexively cringe because it really is so awkward for someone to be eviscerated this publicly, even when it is well deserved. I bet this is an ass-spanking she doesn't soon forget.
If it makes you feel any better it's common for expert witnesses to have also spent a significant amount of time training in techniques to stay on course and on message during contentious cross examination.
24 minutes ago, hathorlive said:And there we have it. Smoke and Mirrors 101.
The name of the game for the defense, hoping that all they need is the first bite of the apple to result in an acquittal and never have to resort to hoping their seedlings sown for appellate issues sprout successfully.
20 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:No cringing here. If it was a class or a business meeting I would for sure cringe for her. But this is her testimony in the court of law, so I'm here for it 100%.
Testimony in a court of law that she's being well compensated to deliver.
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1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:
Shit, if I was JB & M the last place I'd want to be is with the Bates. They're like their mirror family - but without a criminal. I know the Bates suck too, as well as their Fundy friends, but I'm sure there will be a lot of glances and quiet gossip. Never mind making small talk.
Or maybe I have it totally wrong and there will be a lot of validating the unjust persecution of their Christian friends.
Hopefully the Bates follow the Duggar example and get their show canceled too, without sexually exploiting and abusing children of course. Hoping to see those proudly racist idiots scrambling to work actual J.O.B. s for a living instead of continuing to exist as if they are celebrities -- because they absolutely do not deserve to be celebrated for anything.
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1 hour ago, hathorlive said:
And the attack on the forensic tools begins. EnCase, X-Ways, FTK, and Axiom have been vetted and white papered to death.
All the tech talk is an easy route to boring and baffling jurors, planting some "reasonable" doubt.
58 minutes ago, hathorlive said:They've got the jury. I know it only takes one, but it's really early for the jury to be doing head nods.
I'll believe it when they have completed deliberations and come back with the guilty verdict.
Defense will be noting those early nodding heads and making notes -- which they will then use to increase their efforts to baffle and sway. They'll no doubt also be looking for any possible opening to dismiss any of the nodding heads.
How many alternates sit on a federal panel?
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On 12/1/2021 at 9:10 AM, GeeGolly said:
One of the speculations about Jill that has turned into fact is that she has been working on the trauma of the molestations. Personally, I see no evidence of this. Jill mentioned seeing a counselor, with Derick about two years ago. We have heard nothing about therapy at all since then. This speculation also assumes Jill is experiencing trauma symptoms, which I've seen none of. Although Jill does occasionally use the word anxiety, it is always in regard to an event.
With that said, if Jill does have any residual or compartmentalized feelings from the molestations, testifying has the potential to cause more harm than good. Being a witness in this trial to say yes, Josh molested me and my sisters is not putting Jill in control of her narrative. Jill will not be asked any questions on how the molestations affected her or her sisters. She will only be asked if it happened.
To me, that is very different than a victim testifying in a trial against their abuser for crimes committed on them.
What is it that you would be looking for to conclude that she is or has sought treatment for trauma? Plenty of people seek treatment for trauma, make progress and simply live their lives without disclosing the trauma, the treatment for it, or make comments to others about it.
Just as you've suggested we don't know whether she is or was experiencing trauma symptoms we similarly don't know whether she would necessarily reveal anything about struggling or treatment publicly.
My personal belief is that, if nothing else, she likely struggled with her experience being made public. That should have been entirely her choice.
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11 hours ago, Heathen said:
I'm a Michigan native and current resident. IMO, an Alford plea is a legal tool that should be allowed in all states. Remember the West Memphis Three? They weren't guilty and it's mendacity to pretend they were in light of the overwhelming evidence including DNA, but an Alford plea got innocent men off death row and out of prison. An innocent man spending one day in prison is one day too many.
Topic: Ofsmuggar has had home births, a home toilet birth, and a birthing center birth (at least one). I wonder if she had a home birth this time or opted for somewhere else. I also wonder if Jill was present. I'm assuming M7 has been born, of course.
IDK, but I doubt the Alford plea was the reason the West Memphis Three were able to gain their freedom. Conviction by trial includes appellate rights, something that is automatic for capital crimes. Michigan does not have the death penalty, so any crime with the possible penalty of life term is considered capital here. I find it hard to believe that the West Memphis Three only were able to establish their innocence and gain their freedom simply because of an Alford plea. I may be wrong, but from what I know about the appellate process it seems unlikely to me. Why would uncovering new, exonerating evidence in a capital case not merit review by an appellate court? Maintaining the liberty of the innocent is the spine of our entire justice system.
I still maintain that allowing Alford pleas in cases of predators, especially child predators, would be tantamount to lining a cage full of overly enthusiastic monkeys with buttons to launch nuclear weapons.
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11 hours ago, Heathen said:
I'm a Michigan native and current resident. IMO, an Alford plea is a legal tool that should be allowed in all states. Remember the West Memphis Three? They weren't guilty and it's mendacity to pretend they were in light of the overwhelming evidence including DNA, but an Alford plea got innocent men off death row and out of prison. An innocent man spending one day in prison is one day too many.
Topic: Ofsmuggar has had home births, a home toilet birth, and a birthing center birth (at least one). I wonder if she had a home birth this time or opted for somewhere else. I also wonder if Jill was present. I'm assuming M7 has been born, of course.
Taking this over to Small Talk.
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1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:
Could of all the defense's focus on outside access to the computer be because Josh is insisting he his innocent? And Josh is pushing this narrative? How does that relationship work? If a defendant sticks with one story, do the lawyers need to offer a defense including that angle?
Like even the last guy, Caleb. I'm guessing he prints the information stickers that are in car windows. If he really uses Josh's computer to do this, they can look at the computer to see if he used it the same day as the download.
Or are they trying to say that somehow one of these guys had password access and did the download remotely? And if it was a remote download, wouldn't the computer show that?
No, the Defense does not need to give an alternate theory of anything the Prosecution presents. Part of the protections of the Fifth Amendment is that the accused can remain silent and the defense is not required to even put forth a case whatsoever.
Obviously most cases include a defense where at least the Prosecution's evidence is challenged and many times the Defense points out alternative possibilities of the crime being committed by someone else. Theoretically the Defendant and his lawyer could elect to sit silent throughout the entire case, not question any of the Prosecution's witnesses or bring any themselves and simply respond to legal and administrative inquiries from the Court.
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If the Duggars weren't a TV family and were simply a fundie family with exactly the same beliefs and the exact same history, what would be wrong with Jinger living her life exactly as she pleases, including publishing a children's book? She hasn't molested or abused children, so why should she be precluded from living her life?
I have no problem with Josh, JB and M receiving their lashings, but I don't think the siblings have any responsibility to answer for any of it.
I'm not suggesting that Jinger actually does live her life as she pleases (sadly), or that I'm interested in her book. I'm simply saying that she has nothing to answer for in terms of Josh's crimes.
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31 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:
Yep. I was on a jury for a drug case, and the prosecution declined having the evidence fingerprinted before trial because they thought it was a slam dunk. Some of my fellow jurors were displeased with this and let the prosecutor know after the trial. The supposed confession from the defendant was not as convincing as the cops and prosecutors thought. We did find the defendant guilty because the evidence seized could only have come from a drug dealer** and Ohio law allowed us to make that conclusion. I want the prosecutors in Josh's case to use everything they can to nail his ass.
**Rather large bag of cocaine, dirty spoon and scale, baggies, and a large wad of cash. Also in Ohio, the evidence is brought back to the jury room during deliberation. We did all closely examine the evidence before deliberating. I refer to this as the time I legally got to hold a big bag of cocaine.
What was the Prosecutor's response regarding the fingerprinting comments? It's actually surprising sometimes that it's not so straightforward to find fingerprints as is assumed. Quite often what's found is partials, and frequently not partials that can be directly identified to anyone.
Moreso for things like DNA, but sometimes this does apply to fingerprints as well, law enforcement and the prosecution have to be very strategic what evidence is forwarded for analysis due to cost constraints. It blew my mind to find out that this even applies to major murder trials. People assume things operate much like the OJ Simpson trial with the trail of blood drops, but that is very much an aberration from the norm. It's exactly how thousands of rape kits sat unanalyzed in an evidence room for literally years before it became widely known publicly and there was a huge outcry -- and eventually arrangements were made to start addressing that situation.
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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events
in Counting On
Josh certainly caused a hell of a lot of collateral damage and anguish with his "victimless" crime.
She better brace herself, because the sentencings I'm used to are when the gloves really come off and there isn't a lot of varnish covering graphic discussions from the prosecution side at that point.