Tikichick

Don't forget to add the wrinkle where the teenagers and the toddlers are sharing the same bedroom.

Hasn't JB himself owned up to the fact that he struggled with lashing out with his anger on his children? If so it seems that should at least be an equal infraction to Jill's imbibing under their twisted accounting system. Oh no, wait, hold up, I forgot to take the deductions for penis and headship so obviously my math was wonky. My bad.

Exactly, the teachings of the Bible always magically line up with the beliefs of these zealots or are simply subservient to how they wish things to be. The entire structure Gothard set up was simply the means to what he wanted -- and appealed to a lot of men desperate to subjugate women in a patriarchy in a way that makes it seem as if it's about a faithful lifestyle that benefits the family. No, it's just a covert misdirection that seeks to take away the free will that we're all created with by design.

If you look at JB's practice of faith though you hear a lot about reading the Bible, but the actual practices he espouses and demands from those under his headship aren't really scriptural or gospel based, rather manmade. Hence the appeal of Gothard and IBLP, which sets up these male potentates with systems designed primarily to serve exactly what they want, whatever it may be.

This sounds like the stuff of legend. Cannot believe I've never heard about this before!

Since Matthew Morrison won't be staying on the panel for the season I'd like to put my bid in that they bring back Lil C if they won't bring back Mary or Nigel. C had some of the best critiques ever, interesting for the audience and substantive for the dancers to grow with.

That's what was broadcast. It's been played on the show several times over the years, so they can get clearance for it, it matched the choreo well enough and it must not break the bank. They actually were dancing to another song if you watch closely.

Blasphemy!

Now I understand all the broken office chair golden years wishes for JB & M.

Don't forget their treasured family heirloom -- the sofa!

You mean precisely what a huge portion of the "faithful" consider the best part of it?

Thanks. Don't remember hearing him mentioned very much.

Who is JL Duggar?

Really shines a light on many of the struggles families in this type of situation go through and how many different reasons there might be to stay silent and act as if the dysfunction and abuse don't exist/didn't happen. JB & M - fear for reputation/income, don't want to jeopardize son, don't want to risk authorities stepping in regarding other children. Grandma Mary - fear for reputation/income of self & son, don't want to risk tearing apart son's family. Aunt - don't want to hurt/anger mom and brother, afraid of potentially losing support of mom and brother, believe brother and sister in law are genuinely handling situation properly themselves? Amy - young and likely confused and possibly didn't have much accurate detail initially, may have been instructed by adults to keep her mouth shut or risk opening up financial consequences or possibly some type of emotional threat about casting herself and her mother out. Siblings - fear of what could happen and possibly upend life as they knew it, shame, guilt, etc. Change and unknown are common fears for a lot of people. This type of situation in a family heightens those types of fears. Sadly a lot of the family responses in this case line up with what happens in a lot of families facing this type of trauma, prolonging and multiplying the tragedy.

If that's the case it points what a shame it is she was left with only the path of pursuing young marriage and popping out a line of children instead of being able to explore what interested her and where her passions might have taken her. Maybe she could have pursued a career that allowed her to get paid for doing house projects. Then again, Jana seems to enjoy house projects as well and hasn't stepped toe towards a career either.

If what the letters say about Grandma Mary are at all true it would explain a lot about Amy's behavior. Not so sure I can point much of a finger at Amy for not taking action based on what she knew all those years ago when the adults in the situation, including mom, Grandma, Aunt and Uncle didn't do so. Somehow it doesn't seem quite fair to expect someone of Amy's age at the time to come forward.

I can't even begin to imagine supporting seven children, with a hardworking diligent spouse, let alone solo. I've wondered if they, I guess JB particularly, actually want Anna to accept the truth? I guess there's the potential that if she had done so she would have truly kept an eye on him and prevented his arrest in the first place -- actually the Ashley Madison mess, too. I can totally see JB & M taking the stance that it was Anna's job to be vigilant and if necessary report anything to JB that she couldn't put a stop to herself, making the consequences ultimately her fault. I'm not suggesting that attitude is correct, merely a possibility I could see them adopting in order to absolve themselves from any hint of responsibility for the way their son has behaved repeatedly over many years. Anna's staunch commitment to her marriage has withstood at least three increasingly devastating public bombshells. JB may bank on that commitment being unshakeable and decide it's in everyone's best interest for Anna to at least be defending her marriage from the perspective of the reality of who and what Josh is.

Whenever I consider Anna I always wind up wondering if she in fact simply does not have the capacity to think beyond the box she's always lived in, the boundaries she's always known? I'm not saying that there's anything lacking in her actual intelligence, as far as I know she has the capacity to function quite normally and can learn, etc. Matter of fact I remember back to the episodes where they were shown living away from the family outside of DC and thinking she was making a nice start teaching their first couple of kids the very basics like most parents do with very young kids -- ABCs, numbers, colors, "cooking" with mom or dad, making art projects, etc. Her approach to the kids, her enthusiasm, her organization, etc. all stood above and beyond what seemed normal at the TTH. I had hopes that even in the stunted environment it would still be a notch above TTH standards. (I'll take any sliver of hope and light any of these kids get for education and knowledge.) As far as stepping back to take a critical look at what she's been taught her whole life and actually questioning anything as possibly being wrong, misguided, harmful, exploitative, no I don't think Anna ever considers there's any possibility whatsoever. I think that is non existent for her, a total blindspot. She's so indoctrinated down to her core she cannot conceive for one moment her life isn't built on the bedrock she's certain she sees and feels beneath her feet. The serious disservice her parents did her is just a terrifying reminder of the damage this cult has and is doing to all these young kids hurtling towards adulthood at warp speed, completely unaware, completely unprepared, completely unable to fend for themselves to the point they are oblivious for the need to do so. Sadly I don't see any likelihood of Anna opening her eyes to the dangers until the situation her children are in is very dire.

If the Judge said it's required I'll accept that as court ordered as opposed to anything said here speculating it's voluntary. Purely speculation on my part, I'd guess the Judge is putting forth his preference as to where the BOP assigns him so that he has the "good sex offender program" available to him, while the Judge recognizes he has no direct authority to determine where the BOP decides to house him.

Treatment may not have helped Josh. (At this point it would be almost salt in the wound to know that it would have.) Real punishment from authorities other than his parents would have at least meant the family would have been on the radar of child protective professionals, which may have helped his siblings. Solid professional treatment in the aftermath of what he did to them likely would have done his victims good, especially if they were getting any sort of input from their parents or anyone else that they had any share of the blame for what happened to them -- which actually may have left more marks than what Josh did to them if the account that they were asleep and unaware is true.

I agree with you. This is an area where we really need to carefully look at how we punish the offenders and how we address their ability to reoffend, because both need to happen for many reasons.

Punishment doesn't do anything to cure the compulsions, but it is necessary for the protection of society. Apparently some offenders can be helped, but it requires serious motivation on their part -- and apparently is dependent upon what predicates their drive in the first place. Unfortunately he will probably emerge a more highly skilled predator. If that isn't terrifying I don't know what is. Many of them over time become very disciplined about playing the long game when it comes to achieving their goals. I literally felt my insides going to jelly earlier when I read upthread that one of the potential locations he may be incarcerated in is predominantly populated by sex offenders. I cannot wrap my brain around the idea of dozens of them living in daily proximity,, exchanging tips.

I literally feel sick thinking about it.

BOOM is right ... in the bullseye. Shines a big ole light on the crux of the problem -- this guy is a danger to children and therefore society. It's clear they will never forget that, nor should anyone. Anybody think there's a possibility that by the time he's released the Duggar hairline will have receded to the point where there's enough real estate to tattoo the pertinent statements about his potential to reoffend on his forehead for public convenience?

Those letters did not serve the purpose the authors intended, quite the opposite. The Judge's comments weren't complimentary, but a master stroke by a skilled orator to highlight data he used to inform his sentencing decision with a seemingly benign/positive comment that shines like klieg lights if reviewed by an appellate court. The Judge didn't have to note that none of the parties on Josh's side of the equation give a bleep about hurting children because they went to the trouble to put it down in black and white for posterity.