Carrie Ann

It's an all-female-villain movie, right? BC isn't a villain?

Yeah, I am much more interested in the darker/morally questionable/vigilante Felicity storyline now that it seems to tie to Havenrock and to (I hope) the fact that she's not living a full life right now, and that Mayo was a distraction from that. To me, diving deeper into vigilante stuff (esp morally questionable vigilante stuff) isn't the solution to that problem, so I'm hoping that figuring that out is part of her arc in 5B.

The notification thing is a bug related to the update from last week. I think they're waiting for all the reindexing (or...something else tech-y BTS) to be complete to see if it will go away on its own at that point.

I think we're all allowed to speculate here regardless of previous track record. My feeling is that Felicity will be drawn away from the team in a figurative sense more than a literal sense, and also that this whole storyline and the level of darkness is probably overstated because that's the pattern here.

He might have misunderstood the first part, but he did address the second part. He denied that there was any such motive or goal. People don't have to believe him--and maybe he's wrong, because he doesn't sit in on writers' meetings--and they don't have to like his answer, but he did address it. In general, I thought his response was saying "I hear you." I see several lines in that response that say that, particularly the last few. I don't know how else he could have said that without agreeing with her. To say, "I understand why you feel like that," is to agree that there has been a failure somewhere, IMO. Admitting that something in the story has failed is Marc and Wendy's job, not his. And in addition to that being an unrealistic expectation, I think that he doesn't agree with that premise. So instead of saying "I understand why," he said, "I hear that you do," and then responded to the factual issues. I appreciated his response--even if I don't share his enthusiasm for the season--and I definitely don't feel that way a lot of the time. I think he often comes across as flippant or dismissive or sarcastic. To me, this just felt honest.

The Flash never cared about Laurel either, and yet Black Siren appeared there. IMO, the purpose of intro-ing BS was ultimately to bring her to Arrow at some point. It was like Chekhov's gun for Arrow.

I think 510 will pick up right where 509 left off, so they'll deal with BS in that episode, and probably the time jump will take place between 510 and 511 (when I'm assuming they go find Tina?). People didn't think that Tyler Ritter had been on set for most of 5A either, and yet he kept showing up. So Carly could be filming her scenes in like a day and just not posting on SM about it and the paps have missed her.

The way MG talked about it in that preview--that there were so many stories from S1 they didn't get to tell (or something like that) and this is one of them--makes me think that it's a Cupid situation. Surprise me, show!

Stop ??comparing ??508??to ??It's a Wonderful Life?? I have no other thoughts because that line caused my eyes to roll back in my head and I missed everything else.

What would be kind of fun is if all of the team and Oliver's loved ones were separately but simultaneously "captured" or otherwise endangered by various Prometheus allies (only then revealed to be evil) at the end of the episode. This ties in with my hopeful spec that many of the new characters are traitors and that Prometheus has people working for him who have grudges against Oliver from all previous seasons. If it's a cliffhanger, I would imagine that like in some other seasons, the 10th episode picks up immediately after the 9th and then the time jump comes later.

Right, they kept talking about it as a "what if" and then I think MG also tried to argue (in the FB live video prior to the ep) why and how Oliver (and the others) could have logically progressed to where we saw them. It makes no sense though--I mean, consider Malcolm if nothing else--but they seem to want to have it both ways. Because Oliver does acknowledge in the end to Laurel that he was never the guy in that world and seemed to believe he never would have been. Anyway, thinking about the concept that way really weakens their story for me, so I don't know why they'd want to do that? All I can think is that they didn't want to give too much away in advance about how it would play out or Oliver's ultimate conclusions about it. More likely, they're just very bad at seeing/writing/communicating nuance.

I don't think the Flashback timeframes have always lined up with "real time," have they?

It looked like Willa to me. But the only reason I could imagine covering her up is if she's in costume/makeup that is spoilery (wounds, etc.) even though whatever that would be is obviously not very visible. Fingers crossed, because after the disappointment that has been 5A (for me), I really don't need William thrown in the mix of 5B.

I suspect (or...maybe just hope?) that they always intended to include the O/F flashes, as they did the flashes with Oliver and the other characters. It's confusing, the way SA worded that explanation. But he may have just had the flashes and not actually said anything directly to Felicity, just skipped right to the part where he says, "This isn't right." Which is still...stupid and disappointing, but right in line with how they've ignored their story this season, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I think the dream scenes could be interspersed with scenes of Felicity and others trying to rescue Oliver, Sara, etc., from the pod-things, so that the momentum wouldn't be completely lost, but who knows?

How I think the writers probably intend for this to come across: the aliens created a dream world for Oliver based on the premise that The Gambit didn't sail that day and that Oliver gets to have all his dead loved ones back; it's not accurate or logical, but it's supposed to be an idyllic life. Then he will start to twig to the dream-state and realize that this is all "too perfect" and not right, and will work to return to his real life where his other loved ones are (once he remembers them) and where he has a mission, etc. How I think it will actually come across because the writers are terrible at their jobs: the aliens created a dream world that is Oliver's Perfect and Preferred Life, and while he will come to realize it's not real, he will be devastated to have to leave it, but will do so because of Danger and Duty and Mission. I agree that the few sites who have reviewed it thus far have some bias or lack of knowledge of the show, but they're all consistently saying the same type of thing and WM said it herself, basically. It's precisely what I would expect to happen if a bunch of hacks with shoddy historical memory of their own show were to write a "what if." It seems like they probably tried to split the difference between two familiar narrative paths here. One--an actual It's a Wonderful Life scenario, where outcomes follow logically from what we saw of Oliver and others pre-Gambit, which would probably be pretty bleak and would not be a good option for aliens hoping to keep Oliver in that state. Two--an improbable dream scenario that isn't based on reality, but was the aliens' best guess (somehow????) for what Oliver would want. I think they wrote the second, but they are speaking about it as if it's the first, and because some reviewers are seeing it that way as well, I'm guessing it does play that way to some extent. I'm guessing the writers aren't explicit enough about Oliver's feelings and the logistics of this dream state, and therefore it seems like Oliver's perfect and ideal life to a general audience as well. Anyway, I have no expectation that I will enjoy this episode at all, so now I just wish everyone involved would keep the name of my favorite movie out of their mouths, because it hurts me to see it misused in this way.

I can't quite follow the point of this? @wonderwall's post was that she was happy to have a WOC in a costume on Team Arrow for the first time. Whether Juliana "looks white" to you is irrelevant. "Passing" doesn't equal not a POC, and it's not on her to reach some tipping point? She is a WOC, by the US's Eurocentric definition, and if the show also identifies her that way, that would be great.

No, I'd give that one to Fox, with The O.C.

Technically, Kristen Bell came from The CW, and she's doing pretty well. I'd take her career over Blake's, personally.

I actually kind of think the opposite. I mean, they are only RTing the people who love it, obviously, but I think they are quite aware of the complaints, and of course they're aware of their ratings/social media engagement struggles. But right now, I think they are still in anger/resentment mode about all of this, which is why I think SA's reaction was so...reactionary. They're all defensive and dismissive, and it's not productive or effective. They have always had a PR problem--that's an understatement--but specifically w/r/t the fact that they simply cannot see the show or their representation of it through viewers' eyes. So they pay no attention to how things will feel/seem in the immediate moment, when they know that they will solve those issues 10 episodes down the line or whatever, which is why they're always exasperated, like, "Just trust the show. Just keep watching." But we as viewers have nothing to go on besides what we see on screen, or have seen in the past, and what they say off-screen. And for me, there's been nothing in seven months, on screen or off, to make me feel that trust or any hook to keep me watching (especially when my whole problem is that they just stopped telling the story I care about). I wish they could see that, instead of just seeing "You're mad that Olicity aren't together." No. When it comes to them specifically, I'm mad that the show is ignoring their history and avoiding their feelings about it in the current day, thereby avoiding telling that story altogether, as they have so many times before. But mostly I'm mad at the way PR and the writers and SA have gaslighted people who engaged in that story, by acting like we're ridiculous for not finding O/F's easy-peasy return to just teammates believable or appealing. One last thing related to that: I find it hilarious that they're hanging the emotional weight of this season entirely on a character that viewers (broadly speaking) famously never quite engaged with--hoping that we did, just enough to feel something when they go on and on about Laurel and her legacy--while dismissing the importance of several other elements that viewers famously did engage with, and rolling their eyes that we bothered to have feelings about them at all. Okay, very logical, great storytelling, perfect PR strategy.

Well, there was Stefan, haha. I wouldn't count any of Damon's LIs from when Elena was with Stefan, either. So after that...she did date at least one other random guy that I can think of? There may have been others, at least on her side. But I wouldn't say that they were used to break D/E up, just used as a sort of placeholder while they were on the outs.

I think Delena at its height was way bigger than Olicity, and those people remain crazy (I say that lovingly!) despite Nina Dobrev's departure from the show two seasons ago. They still Twitter trend fairly regularly, etc.

K here's my dumb thought re: Prometheus and Evelyn. This is a self-serving theory, because I'm using it as a way to get rid of many of the people I dislike. Here goes: Prometheus has a small team working with him, which is composed of people who have a grudge against GA (and/or possibly against Oliver), with one or multiple characters representing each season. The team knows Team Arrow's real identities. Evelyn would be a Season 4 rep; Mayo and Susan would also both be working with Prometheus, representing other seasons. I don't know who Prometheus is, but in this scenario, I would guess he has a grudge from S1 or the flashbacks. Anyway, I have no evidence for this, except that it would be kind of a pleasantly clean way to bring things full-circle, which would fit with the EPs' line about how this is a story they could only do in the fifth season of the show or whatever. (I haven't watched the last two episodes, so I may have missed big clues or bits that would contradict this scenario.) (Secretly Evil + Dead is my preferred way to get rid of Mayo for sure, because I want him to die, but I don't want to see a single moment of mourning. I mean, same for Susan, but I doubt the show would bother having Oliver mourn her.)

I'm just not comfortable with the idea that because there is (currently) a dearth of Latino actors in steady gigs, RG should be extra careful about how he comes across w/r/t his white coworkers. It's not on him to fix the problems of the industry, and I don't think that EBR-specific fans are going to be the thing that makes or breaks his career.

Yes, this was actually the thing that bugged me from that Q&A--how many times he compared WD/Rene to GA/Oliver. I see very few parallels. He's more like Roy in terms of personality and like Laurel in terms of attitude and (unearned) high opinion of herself/her skills. Oliver's high opinion of his skills in S1 was presented and proven to be a rational evaluation. His mission was not self-centered, as he was just in it to get it done and probably die in the process, not to glorify himself or be a hero or whatever. Having some sort of trauma in his past is also not unique to Rene or Oliver, and what I've gathered from it--that something bad went down in the military--also doesn't connect to Oliver. So uh yeah, either RG has puffed himself up about his importance to Oliver's narrative/the show, or people BTS have done that for him. But, in a common refrain from this season, none of this is actually coming across on-screen.